CFC out,and only 3 teams in CL next year.

We are all rubbish and spend our time following these clowns,so what does that say about us?

4 teams next year...dunno where ur getting 3 from.

PSG are just buying success. The likes of Chelsea, City etc don't have the luxury of splashing out millions on foreigners.

A combination of all three plus the European competition is stronger.

1 and 3 are linked / the same thing

and the european competition being stronger is because many of the top players in England left. So 3 again.

I'm going with 3

The premier league is overhyped rubbish, its quite simple.

People think because we pay the most money we get the best quality, we don't!!

In reality we just pay over the odds for average players.

Cinci and with the pound euro exchangerste we will just get more,
But the better players say put.
Robbie hope that was tongue in cheek??!

Not really, TKT. Teams like Bayern, Dortmund, Atleti and PSG being stronger aren't because the best players left England.

Real are the only ones that have actually got stronger. Barca have got worse since the prem's 'golden age'.

The new tv deal will make the premier league teams stronger in europe, lure of top players will be bigger.

Great description mick

So its all about money?

fairish Darren

that argument was more relevant a couple of years ago - age wiped out more talent than transfers

But you've still got Suarez, Bale, Robben, Luiz, Mascherano, Alonso, Ronaldo and maybe a handful of others who were a talent drain.

We tend to get the 'star' players who the top continental sides no longer want as well.

It's still a talent problem as far as I'm concerned.

I know what you mean but I think the talent leaving had a bigger impact on the teams they left than the ones they joined, other than Real Madrid.

Obviously the talent is a problem, I agree. But there's a management problem as well, overall.

fair again

There's also the good old fashioned luck of the draw.

In 2013 we drew Madrid in the second round, for example. We draw Shakhtar instead and we could have potentially been playing a semi final that year, as them and Malaga weren't the greatest sides.

Arsenal and City haven't had the best of luck with the draws either. Not really an excuse but it can influence what stage these teams ultimately go out.

If anything, more money will just make things worse.

At least that is what history is telling us
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No it isn't because football doesn't work like that.

To some extent Darren, perhaps.

United were unlucky to draw Real Madrid, they won their group and generally when you win your group you get a favourable draw. It was one of the rare occasions where one of the mega teams didn't win their group so it was a real tough draw to get RM.

City and Arsenal on the other hand have regularly qualified second in their group and when they get Bayern/Barca it's hard to feel sympathy for them. Come second you are asking to be drawn against one of the big boys. So I'd say they haven't been unlucky, particularly Arsenal, who actually came second and were drawn against one of the weakest group winners on paper in years, and it still looks as if they will go out.

(Monaco, obviously)

In the 24 seasons since the Premiership began, the European Cup was won by an English club 4 times.

4 times in 24 seasons

and there has been an English teams in the final just 8 times.


All the evidence suggests that the money is killing English clubs in Europe.

If anything, more money will just make things worse.

At least that is what history is telling us.
......................................................

Two words for you....

European ban.

(two words doesn't include this part)

Destroyed us in Europe and set us back years, when people like to compare Fergies record in Europe with Liverpool managers I point them to this firstly.

Mick, with all due respect the era before the premiership was a completely different ball game compared to the last 20 years when money/investment has become much more significant to success. We did well back then probably because it was less important.

Neo, yeah that's fair. But I suppose I mean more that through the chances of playing weaker sides in the draw they've still been a bit unlucky to get the sides they have. Though I agree about them finishing second, particularly Arsenal.

Mick, but it's simplistic research and ignores all context.

Italy, for example, do worse in Europe now as a result of having less money.

So history tells us that money only makes Italy better in Europe but doesn't work for England?

Just throwing money at it isn't going to fix all the problems, I agree, but money isn't the sole problem behind it - especially when you consider that in some cases, Arsenal and Liverpool in particular, lack of money in comparison to European giants is the very reason for their inability to compete in Europe.

Having more money will certainly help the prem providing it's invested correctly. All the best clubs in Europe have shown this over the years.