Im not so sure 9more - its a rarity in Rugby - besides apart from the weakened side that Kidney put out v Scotland - I think that the whole world cup warm up programme was a joke from the Irish Unions point of view - they were asking for trouble if you ask me (the English RFU were no better) - they now go into the world cup with a less than high morale and with Wallace unlikely to be involved again - luckily for England we have our morale boosted - but the shoe could easily of been on the othewr foot

Lydneyian, as an English Ruby supporter do you think the England fans would be as tolerant of Martin Johnson and the English side if your team had just lost 4 matches in a row.

Ok, i am a Football fan first and foremost and not really a Rugby fan but obviously like to see the Irish rugby side so well so i do appreciate that the "behaviour" of your average Rugby fan would be different to that of a Football fan.

But if was a passionate Irish rugby fan who genuinely feels the hurt when my team lose with a whimper (especially against "the old enemy" England) i would be hoarse from roaring abuse today.

Well I do see your point obviously - but it doesnt really happen - You have my thoughts on how I feel it was bad planning- but I would also add that the memories are not as short either from rugby fans - and Kidney has provided enough highs as well

I have only EVER heard England fans boo once in my life - and that was at the first ever loss to Argentina at home and record seventh consecutive defeat into the bargain in 2006 - this was on the back of 2 VERY difficult years ..... to be honest - I still think it was the minority that booed

Rugby, as you are aware, is a game with a very different ethos than football. Generally speaking players and fans alike are more respectful. Football could learn a lot from rugby but changing a culture is very hard.

Anyway, Kidney chose to play so many warm-up games as a response to the last world cup where we were undercooked going into the tournament and never really got going in France.

I think he got the programming wrong this time around and didn't really play his full team until the last two games when it was too late, the rot had set in.

The other issue he has had to deal with is the fact that his key players are ageing and are past their peak now. Paradoxically we have great depth in Irish rugby at the moment but players like O'Driscoll and O'Connell are once in a generation type players.

Fingers crossed that by the time we get to the QF (we should come 2nd in our group behind Australia) will have found a bit of form.

N1Man yes there is no doubt that there is a different "ethos" among Rugby and Football mans. This is probably due to the fact that Football fans are mainly "working class " (hate that word but can't think of another to be honest)!!!
Most Rugby fans would be Middle to Upper class and as a result would be more self conscious of using "abusive or foul language" out of fear that people might think they are god forbid louts etc...

I always find it interesting that if two Footballers engage in a punch up on the field of play they are labelled "thugs" but if two good old Rugby chaps do it they are referred to as "hard men"!!!!!

I think that the class thing is region dependent 9more - I cant speak for Ireland or parts of England - but in the West Country there are not really many soccer clubs and I cant think of any footballers that come from Gloucestershire - most of the West country and Wales are Working class followers when it comes to rugby because we grow up with it

9 More.

Excuse me mate. but i will turn my back on rugby the day an irish RUGBY crowd boo our team.

We give respectfull silence to opposition kickers. tho its not always returned. we are still famous for it. we give respect and praise to the opposition regardless of who they are, we hols our heads high in defeat and win with respect to the loser then we all hit the town and have a pint together. We sit together in mixed stands not separated by barriers and armed police...

Hope that is clear enough. I will not make that any clearer.

This is not football.

Dingbatman , we wait and see.

Most commentators say that the growth in popularity of the Irish rugby team has been due to the remarkable success the team has enjoyed over the last decade.

I agree with this statement. This would imply that a lot of the people who support the Irish Rugby team "new fans" are only used to the good times. In a way you could say they are spoilt.

How will these fans react over the next few years when the inevitable decline in Irish rugby happens (if it hasn't already). Will these "new fans" be as patient and tolerant as the genuine Rugby fan who has followed the side throught the bad times as well?

Time will tell

Fans who would boo our team we can do without.

Quite frankly you sound like you want us to go down in flames in order to prove your point. Well thats not going to happen. You refer to decline where there is none.

Provincial rugby has never been better in ireland. Leinster this season have been perhaps the strongest or one of the strongest teams ever to win the heineken cup. Such was their dominance. The national team is going through a rough time at the moment and i dont believe thats due to players and in fact is more of a management issue. They just dont seem to all be on the same page regarding how they want to play.

But a decline of the magnitude that you refer to is not going to happen. not with the provinces pumping out youngsters at a pace that has never before been seen in irish rugby.

Thats what our success has given us, Youngsters picking up the ball and joining clubs. They are the ones we want not the ones who would think its acceptable to boo our team.

Dingbat why so defensive. I am a proud Irishman. Why would i want to see our Rugby team do badly!!!

Whether its soccer, rugby, cricket or even Hockey i always want to see Ireland do well.

Like yourself i hope that the recent run of bad results is only a blip but you can't deny that the players who have helped make the Irish rugby team the force that they are over the last couple of years are nearly at the end of their careers. All these players will rightly go down as legends in Irish sporting history.

O'Driscoll, Wallace,O'Connell,D'Arcy ,O'Gara etc.. Can you honestly say that we have any up and coming players who can possibly make the same impact these lads have!!

Yes, Ireland will always be a force in World Rugby. But thats more to do with the fact that Worldwide there are so few countries that actually have decent Rugby sides.

But, whether we will have a team that can win Triple Crowns and Grand Slams again in the near future remains to be seen.

And back to my point about the "New Fans". A lot of people who i would have known from school that are now adults are all "big" Leinster and Ireland Rugby fans. I can honestly say i can not remember any of these lads even having the faintest interest in Rugby say more than 10 years ago!!! They only know a succesful Irish Rugby team. These people are absoultely raging at the moment. Complainig about paying good money to go and watch Ireland and being let down by bad performances. I can bet you these lads interest in the Irish side will wain if the team start losing !! Probably thousands more.

From a neutral pov its crazy at this point to assess where Ire are till at least after the WC - I cannot see them failing to get out of the group and that is the only thing that would be a TOTAL failure - but next years 6N will be a barometer as to the lifespan of Mr Kidneys employment I think

9
Lets get this point back to where it started.
Your article suggests that our team/manager should be booed from the field for their rubbish performance. So thats why im defensive and you can cut out the passive aggressive nonsense while were at it.

That rightly gets my back up and so it should. Im not new to rugby and i cant speak for you. I have not jumped on the Cricket bandwagon tho i wish them all the best i have not the least interest in the game tho my father tried to explain the rules to me years ago and for the life of me i dont remember a thing about the game save that the guy with the bat is protecting those sticks behind him.

Look i see what your saying about the fair weather fans. and to be honest i totally see your point about the "new" fans being spoiled by success and not really knowing what it is to lose consistently. I also see your point about the players of this last 10 years. BOD, POC ect are as someone else said once in a generation players and in fact should have won more then just 1 GS.

However in answer to this:
"O'Driscoll, Wallace,O'Connell,D'Arcy ,O'Gara etc.. Can you honestly say that we have any up and coming players who can possibly make the same impact these lads have"

Jamie Heaslip, SOB, Jonny sexton, tommy bowe thats 4 players who would be regarded as the best in europe in their respective positions.

Felix Jones the poor unfortunate lad looks to be a stunning prospect in the fullback position, but time will tell if he can remain injury free and get a decent run. seems a remarkable run of misfortune for him. Spence also a tasty prospect and the list goes on. THe Provence's are producing lots and lots of talent and the conveyor belt just keeps rolling along nicely.

Its unreasonable for you to expect or think thats it possible to produce players like BOD who is a world great and along side Sella, Lomu, etc etc as gifted individual players who just turn up now and then. They are not created they just are how they are.

Finally your tone suggests you want them to do badly and if you think im being defensive i suggest you look at your own cynical view and suggestions that when we play badly we will lose all the new fans. It may happen and it may not. but seriously is there any need to be so negative? We are going through a bad period. It could last a few years but we will be back. Hell England won a world cup in 03 and since then its taken them 7 years to get back on track. It goes in cycles and its unreasonable to suggest that we can produce GS winning teams every year. It makes no sense what so ever.

I perhaps over stated Jonny Sexton's position in Europe in the above comment. ONE OF would be more accurate.

Also 9 i accept that you want them to do well and are disappointed in this time of doing badly consistently. I understand that and also feel it. Im just annoyed at the suggestion that we should boo them from the field.
Thats not acceptable in my book.

I never accussed you of being a new fan. Yes those players you mentioned above are good but i can tell you they will not go on to be as effective as the likes of O'Connell or O'Driscoll.

And yes proper Rugby fans like yourself will continue to follow the Irish Rugby team no whatever happens in the future.

I as a long suffering supporter of the ROI football team would be the same.

But just as the ROI side lost its "glory hunting fans" or the "ole ole ole" crowd as i call them when we stopped qualifying for World Cup Finals i can see the same happening to the Rugby side when we are no longer able to reach the heights of the past few years.

I've heard reports that Munster Rugby is already starting to lose a few "fans" as a result of Munsters recent decline in fortunes. This doesn't surprise me.

The Irish sporting public are notoriously fickle. You will always have the hardcore real fans but unfortunately we will always have the bandwagon or glory hunters who will only stay for the good times. This applies to all sports in Ireland.

I disagree that i am being negative. I am not launching an attack on Irish Rugby i am just making the point that if things start to go downhill expect to see the supporters voting with their feet

tommy bowe and jamie heaslip had just as much if not more effect in the GS as POC. However lets not run away with the GS and believe our own hype. The fact is we played one great game against france. Scraped past England, and scotland, were very shaky against italy and finally just beat wales with some brilliance at times but overall not a great performance. Seems that tha longer goes by the more impressive that GS becomes.

Anyway, if the fans vote with their feet as you say well fine. still plenty of us dedicated fans who follow our team. And lets not ignore the provinces. Leinster are not exactly having problems, while muster just need to sort out their front row and will be back. they showed leinster the way during the Magners final. While Ulster had a very successful season also.

Also the success of irish rugby has always and will continue to be built on the foundations of the provinces. Their success is reflected by the International team. And the international team's success depends on the management's ability to get it right. At this moment the management are failing. I dont buy the line that the team is ageing. The management can't live off the success of 09 forever and Lydneyian is quite correct that we have to see how the WC goes before we start throwing our toys out of the cot.

Im not disagreeing with you that we need to do better, but remain positive, watch the provinces and lets not forget that our foundations are strong and we can ride a few years of building our team when the WC is over. Thats just the way it goes.

I would never boo the team because no matter how bad they play you can never doubt that those players give everything they have and leave everything on the pitch sometimes form dips remember how everyone wrote of Brian O'Driscoll in 2008 and he came roaring back in the 09 season anyone who boos the team is just a fairweather fan that has never played rugby properly.

sea-the-stars

Its true though what does booing accomplish they are playing for Ireland because they are the best players in the country i dont mind aslong as they give there all you ask any more than that when i go play on saturday mornings no one asks any more of me than to give everything why are they any different.