I think it's time Phil Gartside took some real pressure from fans to go. He has mismanaged a period of success that should have ensured our future. The club benefitted from huge amounts of money in the 10 years in the PL and walked away worse off. He has been a disaster for the club and Eddie Davies. I have had enough of this. How many transfer windows will we now have to endure with no finance before we go down? Lennon will surely take any decent offer to him this season from another club. Then I dread to think what will happen. Why have we not had any investment? People have sniffed around but I can imagine that unless Gartside is the main beneficiary in terms of finance and retaining power, it's a no goer.
It's time for a long period of Gartside out. Let's hound out this dodgy dealer who has done so well out of this club but done so much damage too it.

Mr Petrov: macaroni (U11848)

Can I request you read the new complaints guidelines available to read on home match days inside the ground. In order to read these you will be required to show
- Proof of being a full season ticket holder for each member of your family
- A sales receipt from the club shop showing purchases of more than £90 on the day prior to entering the stadium
- Be holding a recent and fresh purchase of food and drink from the concourse outlets
- Wearing an official shirt under one of the many splendid training outdoor wear tops and bottoms

We look forward to welcoming you this coming season and for many seasons to come.

Regards
Bill the Bribe
Your press and public relations consultant

Gartside out

petrov I couldn't agree more but the sad fact is that as long as Eddie owns the club Phil's safe in his job no matter how bad things get on and off the field.

What really scares me to death is this talk of Phil leading a consortium to buy Eddie out. If that happens we'll NEVER be rid of the incompetent clown.

LPP
There is no talk of a consortium just a false alarm come about by people making things fit to suit a good rumour. Phil's best and probably only option would be to buy BWFC the football club which is essentially it's brand name. Big Ed would retain his assets. Any such deal may well depend on the rent for the training ground an club stadium. An option to buy the bits the football club use could be an option in any deal but who is going to join forces with Phil and start a club from scratch with literally no assets it could borrow against.
Most past such take over deals as in the rumour have involved the new owners borrowing heavily against the club assets ala Knighton and Glazer proposals. It can not be done in such a way with our club. Start wishing for a super rich oil or sports tycoon to want an English club as a plaything.

We have to make his position untenable!

His position would already be untenable to anyone with one working brain cell but he doesn't have that. And let's face it, Gartside has skin so thick I suspect he may be the offspring of a Tory Politician and a Rhinoceros so I doubt anything the fans say or do is ever going to bother him.

The only hope for us is to be taken over. Ed won't get rid, Gartside won't quit. So until there's a new owner we're up the proverbial creek with no paddle and a big hole in the bottom of the boat.

First and foremost, the article was excellent 5*

Second, I didn't know of any rumour regarding Darkside buying the club but I think it very unlikely he's been well paid over the years but not that well paid.

Third would lpp please explain which has the thickest skin, a rhinoceros or a conservative. I would say they are the same.

comment by SUPERWHITEINEXILE (U2020)
posted 3 hours, 59 minutes ago
First and foremost, the article was excellent 5*

Second, I didn't know of any rumour regarding Darkside buying the club but I think it very unlikely he's been well paid over the years but not that well paid.

Third would lpp please explain which has the thickest skin, a rhinoceros or a conservative. I would say they are the same.
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First. totally agree, awesome article.

Second, Garty himself alluded to ut with a comment about "working with a group of local businessmen towards a possible takeover or investment in the club". He said that in BBC Radio Manchester interview a few weeks back.

Third, the Tory politician of course. But Gartside has the thickest skin of all, a result (imo) of the said politician meeting a randy rhino one night at Eton old chap.

LPP
Luckily I don't get Radio Manchester where I am but let me translate 'alluded to ut with a comment about "working with a group of local businessmen towards a possible takeover or investment in the club"

I've got to say something to give the fans some hope so here goes at my best shot in saying we'll sell to anybody who wants a slice of anything we have at an inflated price in reality we are shafted so I'll just allude to something to keep the spirits up. Hopefully some of them that no nothing about football will fall for it and think there is a serious chance of a take over or money coming and buying players. I thought about doing the fax again but somebody brought that old chestnut up on a forum a few days before this interview. My best men are already working on next years pre season blag they will never twig and understand what it takes each year it's one of the reasons why I need to be paid so much.

Thank for the replies. All I can say is that I would have loved to have seen the coupling of Darkside and the Rhino. I hope it was very painful.

I doubt we will hear anything more regarding a buyout. These mysterious consortiums seem to disappear into the ether, as quickly as they appear.

12 days to go for fitness training and tactic orientation prior to our first warm up game. Everybody cling to the no news is good news theory in relation to top notch championship winning chaps joining us before the real big kick arrives.

Step forward A trialist and B Trialist

The club benefitted from huge amounts of money in the 10 years in the PL and walked away worse off.
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Where does this none-sense come from.

Remember the other side of a Profit and Loss statement. There is income, which of course is larger in the prem, and there is costs, which are of course larger in the prem

Not wanting to get into a futile argument on this point but there are other clubs of the size of ours, who have had spells in the Premiership and some that are still there, that have not accumulated the debt that we have.

It all comes down to cutting the cloth according to your pocket. Our club hasn't done very well in that department.

Gross Debt
2005 28m
2008 56m
2010 95m
Today It will not let me use such language on here

Gross negligence on behalf of the board following relegation in its failure to address rising costs and ability to sustain debt levels. Borrowing during the prem years was well controlled with plenty of room to rebuild a team if status had been maintained despite the myth of using free older world class players on high wages was untenable. Once debt topped 100m control was basically lost and left too late. Bolting the stable door when the horse is long gone or too little too late.
Should we catch a miracle promotion we could not spend to maintain the status another miracle would be required and so it would continue until such time as the club sorted out the books.

Where does this none-sense come from.


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I will say it again as it is not nonsense. It is called simple budget balancing and forward planning. Neither have clearly taken place. Premier League football is like winning the lottery for an English football team. To win the end up in debt would class you as an idiot. Ala Gartside.

In my mind its ownly a matter of when not if armageddon arrives.

comment by Petrov: macaroni (U11848)
posted 13 hours, 41 minutes ago
Where does this none-sense come from.


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I will say it again as it is not nonsense. It is called simple budget balancing and forward planning. Neither have clearly taken place. Premier League football is like winning the lottery for an English football team. To win the end up in debt would class you as an idiot. Ala Gartside.
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It is absolutely correct to say the debt level is too high. However it was circumstance at the time - we had a high period of success, which, despite what everybody believes wouldnt of been financial success, nothing of the sort, there is no profit to be made in the premier league unless your in the champions league.

We spent a load of money trying to stay in the premier league. it failed, it didnt fail because it was wrong to spend it, it just failed, sometimes it does.

If we hadnt of spent it, we would have gone down earlier

So explain the spending and debt rise since relegation. When every club knows going down their players have clauses in them to reduce their wage. Ours didn't

We have doubled the debt since going down and still not trading within our means we trade on borrowed and begged money with a return on savings made today of between 5 to 7 years so until then we lose more and unable to invest properly as we would expect the club to do.

We tried and failed to stay up by spending over 60m fine but that does not explain away the gross negligence of the board since relegation was confirmed in borrowing to such an extent to end up where we are. We are not trading in profit of one pound today so where is the loss being made up from ? borrowing by begging it says a lot when Barclays called in their debt the writing was on the wall before then since one bank has done it the rest follow all the club assets are at risk.

Going down earlier and sorting out the stall would have been the sensible business approach taken by many a well run company you do not gamble to the extent the board has done. The gamble is that what are the odds of surviving at present and when will we able to invest 1p into the club without worrying by adding it to the debt.

As I stated above promotion will mean nothing to the finances of the club in terms of day to day spend the only possible way of remaining in a higher league by investing in the team would have to come from negotiating the term of the debts extending the date when the club might once again be able to say it is trading sensibly and within its means with no financial risk to any aspects of the business.

Long ago and since I have stated find out who owes against what assets, what is owed to who and you will understand why I am often heard banging the drum on the rising debt. I was there when we had 10 days notice served last time around this is not 10 days notice it is 10 times worse.

I for one will not be the one seen crying and asking how could it have happened on Sky it would not surprise me if it happened tomorrow next week its look more a question not if but when. How long can the books be juggled for before the end comes. 200m is untenable for a championship club of our size fan base income and debt repayments it will take one hell of a miracle to escape this mess.

PG is the nominated chairman of the club it was his role to oversee all of this and call a halt to it. To take steps and implement measure and ensure we were ran with competence and trading within our means and debt levels. As a chairman in this current era he has failed miserably in his responsibilities. Why didn't swinging cuts come in once relegation had been confirmed if he had gambled once in trying to stay up he gambled twice on a return within three years with no guarantee of success and ultimately failed.
A chairman allowing any business to gamble in such a way should not be in any business.

Bolton gambled big time on getting promoted that first season down keeping most of the premier league squad. Also spent a lot that summer on big wages mills, andrews etc. Trouble was gartside kept coyle as manager. Looking back the cuts should have started the day after relegation. No new deals for davies, knight etc.

A lot of the debt rise was as a result of investment write downs, and i think it is fair to say the club tried to bounce back and kept on a lot of the higher earners.

Lets not forget the good things eh - Europe, Top Academy, stadium, facilities, community work, fixed prices for tickets.

We are in a cruel business - we went down by the slightest of Margins. If this doesnt happen, that tiny margin, we could well be having a very different conversation now.

You cant say we went down as a result of the result at stoke on that final day. However what kind of manager, when you are winning, takes of a midfielder i think it was, for a "lazy" striker. Its madness.

I for one dont see the debt as all that frightening - theres no nouse round our neck as some people believe. Eddie isnt going to pull the plug, because if he does, he will get nothing in return. Yes there is a period of re-building to be done, of course there is. Look at all the other clubs that where premier league staples and have had to re-build - Southampton, Derby, Forest. We are no different. I think its unfair to put all this on Gartside, who oversaw the most succesful period in our long long history, and by no means are we in the most unsuccesful period today. The club is trading within its means, thats all.

Unfair to lay it on Gartside you are having a laugh.
The chairman is responsible for overseeing a nightmare. We owe 200m how and when will it be paid back ? how do you rebuild it with zero profit and the books showing a daily loss we as supporters must ask when can we start to think of rebuilding the club and invest some money into it.

What contingency plan is in place should a critical event occur today or tomorrow. It is not all owed to Ed in person. What is owed to who what assets are securing those loans and when / how will it be repaid in the event of such a critical event.
Being in charge during a successful period does not in any way excuse the negligence in managing the fruits of that success to end up in the state we are now in.

You try and quote some clubs who have rebuilt yet forget to mention us. We rebuilt and reached great heights. A chairman who was there during that period should never have forgotten and lost sight of where we were back when he joined the club the anguish and long period it took to attain the great heights we eventually reached. What does our lunatic do he risks doing it all over again but worse.
The guy should not be in a job yet sits back while Rome burns drawing a substantial fee from the club.

How do you rebuild it with zero profit..............you cut costs, stop spending on transfer fees, cut cloth accordingly.....exactoy what we are doing..

So when will we be making a profit. You missed the bit where it says we are making a daily loss. We do not make one bean at this moment in time. The club is some way off being able to show an operating profit.
We do not have enough room to cut enough and reverse the situation interest on loans and deferred interest has to be paid.
If you cut cloth at BWFC accordingly you would cease to trade.

comment by Ye Olde Pasty (U2191)
posted 2 hours, 55 minutes ago
So when will we be making a profit. You missed the bit where it says we are making a daily loss. We do not make one bean at this moment in time. The club is some way off being able to show an operating profit.
We do not have enough room to cut enough and reverse the situation interest on loans and deferred interest has to be paid.
If you cut cloth at BWFC accordingly you would cease to trade.
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What interest do u refer to?