My dad is a Southampton fan, so in result I watch a lot of their games. So I suppose they are my second team of sorts.
Yes he is good. But there are factors governing whether he will be successful or not with you.
Southampton are a very well drilled team defensively, and work great together as a unit. We saw with lovern last year, that as soon as you take him out of their system he looked awful.
He also had a very good solid partner in fonte.
He does seem a good player. But saints good defence is based of their performance as a unit, as well as coaching and tactics. If you coach well you can turn average defenders into a very good unit.
So overall I would say it will remain to be seen whether he will be as good for you as he was for saints. But I would say he is a good signing. But you would say the same for lovern last year.
Saints only conceded 33 goals last year, one more than Chelsea did. Toby was a key player in this defence so yes, he's a very good signing.
What Ox says above is very true tho - even the best players need a good system and ours has been terrible at the back for a while now. You'd hope that as a former defender, poch will be doing a lot of work on this.
But it's certainly a fantastic signing, brilliant player. After seeing him a few times last year he is better than any of our existing CBs. Still hopeful for Dier tho.
They are absolutely gutted he has chosen us over them. Go on the saints web forum for proof of that. He's a superb signing and has immediately improved our defence. Will be 1st choice along with Vertonghen for me at the start
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
What ox says is true. Ours system is to blame for our defensive problems imo. Maybe toby will fit our system better.
Can't say I like it thou. I would prefer one with proper wingers and defensive full backs but what do I know
I had him in my team of the season last year, but they play a very tight system in which defenders look very composed in. Which makes me unsure if he is a massive talent, or koeman is a great coach.
I'm still massively excited, he is comfortably our best cb now.
Ledders, reading Atletico fan forums, they rate Alderweireld primarily for his ability to play the ball out, but claim Simeone didn't take to the player because he made too many errors when doing so. They reckon he prefers Giménez because he's more the no-nonsense, hoof-it-out type of CB.
Still, dunnno what Atleti have in mind. They've now sold 2 CBs this summer and are left with just Godín and Giménez. The two could form a fantastic partnership, but surely they can't just rely on their academy/reserves for backup.
On a related note, vertonghen has to step up now. He was bang average for the majority of last season, and his attitude wasn't always great.
He is arguably first choice to partner Toby but id like to see Dier and Wimmer given opportunities to challenge him.
I am reserving any judgement on him as if he was that good why did A. Madrid loan him to Southhampton, he most have been surplus to requirements.
_____________________
- He wanted to play football.
- He couldn't do that because they had one of the best CB partnerships in Europe in Godin and Miranda.
comment by itsonlyagame - #freeSanti (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
Ledders, reading Atletico fan forums, they rate Alderweireld primarily for his ability to play the ball out, but claim Simeone didn't take to the player because he made too many errors when doing so. They reckon he prefers Giménez because he's more the no-nonsense, hoof-it-out type of CB.
Still, dunnno what Atleti have in mind. They've now sold 2 CBs this summer and are left with just Godín and Giménez. The two could form a fantastic partnership, but surely they can't just rely on their academy/reserves for backup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But Giminez himself was an academy product they relied on this season who produced the goods himself I thought. That being said they have to sign another CB surely.
Yes I see a lot of our fans crowing over him but can hardly claim to have watched him closely. It seems many just follow the herd as he must be good if a few Spurs fans say so..I rememeber the many a "dodged a bullet" comments when we lost William to Chelsea.
Personally I will like to reserve judgement until he has played a few games for us. As someone mentioned earlier Southampton play as a team and have that overall solid look about them. If you continuously expose good defenders then mistakes will eventually crop in so lets home we protect the back 4 better than we did last season..We will soon make him look like a Sunday pub defender if the Midfield unit offer little protection to the back 4. Coys!!
But Giminez himself was an academy product they relied on this season who produced the goods himself I thought.
______
Not really. They signed him from Danubio (Uruguay) when he was 18.
This is when fans who play football manage get excited by any signing we make but as for Alderweireld, Fonte was a superior defender last season and Alderweireld benefited from Southamptons fluke season when even journeymen players like Pelle looked outstanding.
Once you see Alderweireld make errors, you will see we have signed another average defender, to go with our long list of average centre backs, but I'm expecting to read articles about Alderweireld being the missing link in our defence, from the same fans who said AVB would wow us with his tactics and the same fans who think Pochettino will be a tactical genius.
By Christmas, Pochettino will be struggling to keep his job and our defence will still be woeful.
comment by (U20532)
posted 54 seconds ago
By Christmas, Pochettino will be struggling to keep his job and our defence will still be woeful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the spirit
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by (U20532)
posted 54 seconds ago
By Christmas, Pochettino will be struggling to keep his job and our defence will still be woeful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the spirit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its what I expect as I can see us having a start similar to when Jol and Ramos got the sack, as if you remember the season when Jol was sacked, we had a talented team, more talented then this current squad yet we suffered from conceding cheap goals, yet we played some impressive football.
With Pochettino we have a woeful defence, our football is uninspiring but we had Harry Kane in fabulous form.
Next season the defence will still be woeful, Kanes form won't be on the same level and we will struggle, with Pochettino maybe making it to Christmas, just depends on how much patience Levy has.
Some of your points are true. But I don't know how you can say
-Kane won't be at the same level.
This is based on absolutely no fact. He may well be, he may even be better.
- our defence will still be woeful
Again, how do you know? We've signed two new CBs, one of whom is proven in the PL and featured in one of the best defences in the league. Dier has a season under him and is improving. Walker has competition from a good young player with PL experience. Rose was fantastic the back end of last season. And crucially, labour and ciriches won't be anywhere near our team. And poch will have had a summer to work with all of them. Not saying it's going to be perfect but it's a step in the right direction.
comment by itsonlyagame - #freeSanti (U6426)
posted 54 minutes ago
But Giminez himself was an academy product they relied on this season who produced the goods himself I thought.
______
Not really. They signed him from Danubio (Uruguay) when he was 18.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though this was a pedantic remark that alludes the actual point I was trying to make. I would definitely classify that as a youth player, it isn't like he was a Wayne Rooney standard to waltz into the first team, he still had a lot of learning. Much like most Spurs fans will call Bentaleb and Rose youth products.
Everyone seems to have completely written off Fazio its like he does not exist.
Giménez had already made an excellent impression before last season though, and also at the World Cup. It'd take them at least a couple of seasons to blood any promising academy youngster into the team (they have no top prospects that I'm aware of), and you'd imagine a CL side hoping to compete for honours would want 4 CBs, and for 3 of them at the very least to be dependable.
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 4 minutes ago
Some of your points are true. But I don't know how you can say
-Kane won't be at the same level.
This is based on absolutely no fact. He may well be, he may even be better.
- our defence will still be woeful
Again, how do you know? We've signed two new CBs, one of whom is proven in the PL and featured in one of the best defences in the league. Dier has a season under him and is improving. Walker has competition from a good young player with PL experience. Rose was fantastic the back end of last season. And crucially, labour and ciriches won't be anywhere near our team. And poch will have had a summer to work with all of them. Not saying it's going to be perfect but it's a step in the right direction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There isn't that much time now until the season starts, so we will soon see if I'm right or wrong on the points you mention.
I can see you're a glass half full guy so I can't tell you not to be positive, as you have mentioned the reasons why you believe we're moving in the right direction.
But, there is a much higher chance that the signings we make will struggle, Kane won't offer the same quality as last season and Pochettino will end up being fired.
If we look back to the performances under AVB, Sherwood and Pochettino, for the large majority the football was dire, dull, aside from a few excting matches.
Avb had Bale.
Sherwood had Adebayor and Eriksen.
Pochettino has Eriksen and Kane.
We have been managing to produce a decent league finish on the back of crap performances with one (or two) outstanding performers gaining points for the team.
I believe this season will be a major, major disappointment (for the fans that are looking to the positives) and after our low points tally (last season), we're moving backwards, we're boring to watch and we have a manager that is out of his depth.
And yes, that is all just my opinion, yet football is a game of opinions and we have another season ahead of us to see whos opinion has turned out to be right (or wrong).
True, it will be interesting to see who they go for. A fair few teams looking for a CB.
U20532
And pep had messi
And Wenger has Sanchez and Cazorla
I fail too see why people use the fact that a team has one or two exceptional players as an argument.
U
Not having a go, and you're right everyone is entitled to opinions. Some of what you say makes sense, we got very lucky in a lot of games last season and possibly our final position flattered us after some very very average football.
But it is odd to state your opinions as though they are facts - that Kane won't be at the same level for example. There's no reason to assume this.
I have hope for this season, and that hope is that it is more entertaining than last. But it does feel like we're going the right way - (hopefully) improving our defence, ol investing in youth, and prioritising scouting and academy. We'll see.
It's opinions that keep his board going so please don't think I'm arguing for the sake of it
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 minutes ago
U20532
And pep had messi
And Wenger has Sanchez and Cazorla
I fail too see why people use the fact that a team has one or two exceptional players as an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep had Messi but the team was still outstanding and played outstanding football.
Wenger has Sanchez and Cazorla but Wenger has a history of winning trophies, winning the league and building great teams.
So you have looked at this from a different angle as I'm not saying its a negative for a team to have one or two outstanding individuals, I'm saying its a negative if the team also has a manager out of his depth and a plan which is flawed, and AVB, Sherwood and Pochettino all had (have) plans which are flawed and where lucky to have outstanding players to help hide the issues, and Pochettino will soon to found out, much like AVB and Sherwood.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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Toby Alderweireld - Is he any good
Page 1 of 2
posted on 8/7/15
My dad is a Southampton fan, so in result I watch a lot of their games. So I suppose they are my second team of sorts.
Yes he is good. But there are factors governing whether he will be successful or not with you.
Southampton are a very well drilled team defensively, and work great together as a unit. We saw with lovern last year, that as soon as you take him out of their system he looked awful.
He also had a very good solid partner in fonte.
He does seem a good player. But saints good defence is based of their performance as a unit, as well as coaching and tactics. If you coach well you can turn average defenders into a very good unit.
So overall I would say it will remain to be seen whether he will be as good for you as he was for saints. But I would say he is a good signing. But you would say the same for lovern last year.
posted on 8/7/15
Saints only conceded 33 goals last year, one more than Chelsea did. Toby was a key player in this defence so yes, he's a very good signing.
What Ox says above is very true tho - even the best players need a good system and ours has been terrible at the back for a while now. You'd hope that as a former defender, poch will be doing a lot of work on this.
But it's certainly a fantastic signing, brilliant player. After seeing him a few times last year he is better than any of our existing CBs. Still hopeful for Dier tho.
posted on 8/7/15
They are absolutely gutted he has chosen us over them. Go on the saints web forum for proof of that. He's a superb signing and has immediately improved our defence. Will be 1st choice along with Vertonghen for me at the start
posted on 8/7/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/7/15
What ox says is true. Ours system is to blame for our defensive problems imo. Maybe toby will fit our system better.
Can't say I like it thou. I would prefer one with proper wingers and defensive full backs but what do I know
posted on 8/7/15
I had him in my team of the season last year, but they play a very tight system in which defenders look very composed in. Which makes me unsure if he is a massive talent, or koeman is a great coach.
I'm still massively excited, he is comfortably our best cb now.
posted on 8/7/15
Ledders, reading Atletico fan forums, they rate Alderweireld primarily for his ability to play the ball out, but claim Simeone didn't take to the player because he made too many errors when doing so. They reckon he prefers Giménez because he's more the no-nonsense, hoof-it-out type of CB.
Still, dunnno what Atleti have in mind. They've now sold 2 CBs this summer and are left with just Godín and Giménez. The two could form a fantastic partnership, but surely they can't just rely on their academy/reserves for backup.
posted on 8/7/15
On a related note, vertonghen has to step up now. He was bang average for the majority of last season, and his attitude wasn't always great.
He is arguably first choice to partner Toby but id like to see Dier and Wimmer given opportunities to challenge him.
posted on 8/7/15
I am reserving any judgement on him as if he was that good why did A. Madrid loan him to Southhampton, he most have been surplus to requirements.
_____________________
- He wanted to play football.
- He couldn't do that because they had one of the best CB partnerships in Europe in Godin and Miranda.
posted on 8/7/15
comment by itsonlyagame - #freeSanti (U6426)
posted 4 minutes ago
Ledders, reading Atletico fan forums, they rate Alderweireld primarily for his ability to play the ball out, but claim Simeone didn't take to the player because he made too many errors when doing so. They reckon he prefers Giménez because he's more the no-nonsense, hoof-it-out type of CB.
Still, dunnno what Atleti have in mind. They've now sold 2 CBs this summer and are left with just Godín and Giménez. The two could form a fantastic partnership, but surely they can't just rely on their academy/reserves for backup.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But Giminez himself was an academy product they relied on this season who produced the goods himself I thought. That being said they have to sign another CB surely.
posted on 8/7/15
Yes I see a lot of our fans crowing over him but can hardly claim to have watched him closely. It seems many just follow the herd as he must be good if a few Spurs fans say so..I rememeber the many a "dodged a bullet" comments when we lost William to Chelsea.
Personally I will like to reserve judgement until he has played a few games for us. As someone mentioned earlier Southampton play as a team and have that overall solid look about them. If you continuously expose good defenders then mistakes will eventually crop in so lets home we protect the back 4 better than we did last season..We will soon make him look like a Sunday pub defender if the Midfield unit offer little protection to the back 4. Coys!!
posted on 8/7/15
But Giminez himself was an academy product they relied on this season who produced the goods himself I thought.
______
Not really. They signed him from Danubio (Uruguay) when he was 18.
posted on 8/7/15
This is when fans who play football manage get excited by any signing we make but as for Alderweireld, Fonte was a superior defender last season and Alderweireld benefited from Southamptons fluke season when even journeymen players like Pelle looked outstanding.
Once you see Alderweireld make errors, you will see we have signed another average defender, to go with our long list of average centre backs, but I'm expecting to read articles about Alderweireld being the missing link in our defence, from the same fans who said AVB would wow us with his tactics and the same fans who think Pochettino will be a tactical genius.
By Christmas, Pochettino will be struggling to keep his job and our defence will still be woeful.
posted on 8/7/15
comment by (U20532)
posted 54 seconds ago
By Christmas, Pochettino will be struggling to keep his job and our defence will still be woeful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the spirit
posted on 8/7/15
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by (U20532)
posted 54 seconds ago
By Christmas, Pochettino will be struggling to keep his job and our defence will still be woeful.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the spirit
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its what I expect as I can see us having a start similar to when Jol and Ramos got the sack, as if you remember the season when Jol was sacked, we had a talented team, more talented then this current squad yet we suffered from conceding cheap goals, yet we played some impressive football.
With Pochettino we have a woeful defence, our football is uninspiring but we had Harry Kane in fabulous form.
Next season the defence will still be woeful, Kanes form won't be on the same level and we will struggle, with Pochettino maybe making it to Christmas, just depends on how much patience Levy has.
posted on 8/7/15
Some of your points are true. But I don't know how you can say
-Kane won't be at the same level.
This is based on absolutely no fact. He may well be, he may even be better.
- our defence will still be woeful
Again, how do you know? We've signed two new CBs, one of whom is proven in the PL and featured in one of the best defences in the league. Dier has a season under him and is improving. Walker has competition from a good young player with PL experience. Rose was fantastic the back end of last season. And crucially, labour and ciriches won't be anywhere near our team. And poch will have had a summer to work with all of them. Not saying it's going to be perfect but it's a step in the right direction.
posted on 8/7/15
comment by itsonlyagame - #freeSanti (U6426)
posted 54 minutes ago
But Giminez himself was an academy product they relied on this season who produced the goods himself I thought.
______
Not really. They signed him from Danubio (Uruguay) when he was 18.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though this was a pedantic remark that alludes the actual point I was trying to make. I would definitely classify that as a youth player, it isn't like he was a Wayne Rooney standard to waltz into the first team, he still had a lot of learning. Much like most Spurs fans will call Bentaleb and Rose youth products.
posted on 8/7/15
Everyone seems to have completely written off Fazio its like he does not exist.
posted on 8/7/15
Giménez had already made an excellent impression before last season though, and also at the World Cup. It'd take them at least a couple of seasons to blood any promising academy youngster into the team (they have no top prospects that I'm aware of), and you'd imagine a CL side hoping to compete for honours would want 4 CBs, and for 3 of them at the very least to be dependable.
posted on 8/7/15
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 4 minutes ago
Some of your points are true. But I don't know how you can say
-Kane won't be at the same level.
This is based on absolutely no fact. He may well be, he may even be better.
- our defence will still be woeful
Again, how do you know? We've signed two new CBs, one of whom is proven in the PL and featured in one of the best defences in the league. Dier has a season under him and is improving. Walker has competition from a good young player with PL experience. Rose was fantastic the back end of last season. And crucially, labour and ciriches won't be anywhere near our team. And poch will have had a summer to work with all of them. Not saying it's going to be perfect but it's a step in the right direction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There isn't that much time now until the season starts, so we will soon see if I'm right or wrong on the points you mention.
I can see you're a glass half full guy so I can't tell you not to be positive, as you have mentioned the reasons why you believe we're moving in the right direction.
But, there is a much higher chance that the signings we make will struggle, Kane won't offer the same quality as last season and Pochettino will end up being fired.
If we look back to the performances under AVB, Sherwood and Pochettino, for the large majority the football was dire, dull, aside from a few excting matches.
Avb had Bale.
Sherwood had Adebayor and Eriksen.
Pochettino has Eriksen and Kane.
We have been managing to produce a decent league finish on the back of crap performances with one (or two) outstanding performers gaining points for the team.
I believe this season will be a major, major disappointment (for the fans that are looking to the positives) and after our low points tally (last season), we're moving backwards, we're boring to watch and we have a manager that is out of his depth.
And yes, that is all just my opinion, yet football is a game of opinions and we have another season ahead of us to see whos opinion has turned out to be right (or wrong).
posted on 8/7/15
True, it will be interesting to see who they go for. A fair few teams looking for a CB.
posted on 8/7/15
U20532
And pep had messi
And Wenger has Sanchez and Cazorla
I fail too see why people use the fact that a team has one or two exceptional players as an argument.
posted on 8/7/15
U
Not having a go, and you're right everyone is entitled to opinions. Some of what you say makes sense, we got very lucky in a lot of games last season and possibly our final position flattered us after some very very average football.
But it is odd to state your opinions as though they are facts - that Kane won't be at the same level for example. There's no reason to assume this.
I have hope for this season, and that hope is that it is more entertaining than last. But it does feel like we're going the right way - (hopefully) improving our defence, ol investing in youth, and prioritising scouting and academy. We'll see.
It's opinions that keep his board going so please don't think I'm arguing for the sake of it
posted on 8/7/15
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 minutes ago
U20532
And pep had messi
And Wenger has Sanchez and Cazorla
I fail too see why people use the fact that a team has one or two exceptional players as an argument.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pep had Messi but the team was still outstanding and played outstanding football.
Wenger has Sanchez and Cazorla but Wenger has a history of winning trophies, winning the league and building great teams.
So you have looked at this from a different angle as I'm not saying its a negative for a team to have one or two outstanding individuals, I'm saying its a negative if the team also has a manager out of his depth and a plan which is flawed, and AVB, Sherwood and Pochettino all had (have) plans which are flawed and where lucky to have outstanding players to help hide the issues, and Pochettino will soon to found out, much like AVB and Sherwood.
posted on 8/7/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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