comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Hafi actually making a valid point. This idea that once you reach a specific age means you are past it is nonsense.
Yes most players will begin to decline in their late 20s but every player is different. Being 30 doesn't make you instantly worse than being 29. You have to take into consideration a players condition which like I said will mean players aged 30 can sometimes be in better condition that someone younger.
Iron
You said yesterday that we needed to be more like City and Chelsea in bringing in youth players but then failed to list them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea have a host that won the U19s CL and youth cup and loads of others out on loan. Loftus-Cheek, Baker,Brown,Solanke,Christensen to name just a few..
I read a lot of articles on youth players and Chelsea and City are stockpiling them at a very young age.
I read somewhere that LVG want to address this and the signing of the GK and Dutch CB and going after that French kid suggests we are looking to improve this at least.
comment by The Iron Tulip's Philosophy (U17867)
posted 21 minutes ago
Well lets hope BS doesn't keep getting injuries.
IMO we shouldn't bother signing anyone over 30 now.
Build for the future.Ramos and Pedro will do nicely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so anyone 30+ is not worth signing and too old but buying a 29 year old like Ramos is considered building for the future?
btw when I say late 30's as in still quite regularly although Giggs did make 40. Giggs at 40 was key player to RVP getting his hat-trick at 40. Since Scholes retired we have struggled so you can't say worse players or it could have been just management.
On about Olympiakos game. Our squad is the youngest of last season top 4.
And who are the current PL U21 champions you idiot. I'm sure you could equally name a bunch of unproven talent from United's youth teams as well.
Even then it still doesn't guarantee anything as most of these players will likely fail to make the grade. Stock piling youth players really isn't guaranteed to succeed, it actually hinders the chance of many youth players.
You need balance but more than that you need good players whatever their age.
comment by I am the Knight. (U20574)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Iron Tulip's Philosophy (U17867)
posted 21 minutes ago
Well lets hope BS doesn't keep getting injuries.
IMO we shouldn't bother signing anyone over 30 now.
Build for the future.Ramos and Pedro will do nicely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so anyone 30+ is not worth signing and too old but buying a 29 year old like Ramos is considered building for the future?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramos should be capable of 3-4 years at the top at least and yes 2 years at that stage of the career is quite a big difference. We already signed a 31 yr old.
Hoping he isn't injured all the time.
The club even had a policy before of not going for players I think over 27 and not offering contracts over 1 year once they get to 30. No sell on fee either obviously.
There is no reason Carrick cannot carry on for a few more years... He can be our Pirlo
the biggest concern is that the older you get, the more injuries you pick up and the longer it takes to get back to form.
Bastian is 30, he's 31 in a few days but this just shows how idiotic your logic is.
You say that we need to buy players that are not over 30, so are you implying that Bastian in 7 days will become a lesser player because he is 1 year older?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
And who are the current PL U21 champions you idiot. I'm sure you could equally name a bunch of unproven talent from United's youth teams as well.
Even then it still doesn't guarantee anything as most of these players will likely fail to make the grade. Stock piling youth players really isn't guaranteed to succeed, it actually hinders the chance of many youth players.
You need balance but more than that you need good players whatever their age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We only won the U21s as we don't have shed loads on loan and regularly played first team players in there as LVG likes to do that for players to regain fitness after injury for example.
Winning the U19s CL is no mean feat.
How can stockpiling young players hinder the chances of many youth players ? They are the youth and the best will come through or be sold for decent money.
Our scouting over all for ages has been crap as many regularly like to write about here.
LVG admitted it, he gives time for players to recover
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9924047/lvg-coy-on-di-maria-future
I always thought he gives an extra week then usual before players play a game fully.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Bastian is 30, he's 31 in a few days but this just shows how idiotic your logic is.
You say that we need to buy players that are not over 30, so are you implying that Bastian in 7 days will become a lesser player because he is 1 year older?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I am not , you are so pedantic as per normal.
I am simply just saying one player bought that age is enough and you have to look at it over all. Yes there has to be some common sense in there and we needed a leader and his type in midfield. Just don't think we need anyone else that age or older.
I personally want to see a younger side being built that can play together for 5+ years.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I'm being pedantic to show how stupid your logic is.
A well balanced side needs a mixture of youth and experience. Our CM options currently consist of Carrick, Bastian, Morgan, Herrera, Fellaini and Blind which I think is a very good balance. Our CB options on the other hand consist of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Evans, Blackett and McNair which is clearly lacking in experience.
If a player is available who can improve our squad then his age should not be a major negative factor.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9924034/diego-costa-expects-radamel-falcao-to-succeed-at-chelsea
I highly doubt it.
Sorry but City and Chelsea are the last clubs I would associate with youth.
John Terry was the last product of their youth team that made the leap to being a regular in their first team.
The only one I can think of for City was Flitcroft.
With regards to first team players, I will go with LVGs recent comments on the issue, in that everyone will be fighting for their place.
Did someone really suggest Chelsea will give youth a chance?
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 7 minutes ago
Did someone really suggest Chelsea will give youth a chance?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know they haven't previously but they didn't have very good youth. I honestly think Maureen will introduce 2 or 3 this and next season. Loftus-Cheek obviously and a couple of others. They don't really need to buy anyone either.
Ask knowledgable Chelsea fans their opinion perhaps instead of some of the resident know alls here.
Somebody says spending money doesn't guarantee success, that's correct but exactly what we are trying to do now to recover lost ground. Lets hope it works then.
My idea about building for the future is not the whole first XI obviously, it's a core of 5-8 players experiencing
success and then being hungry for more etc
Tulip
Chelsea had a youth team that was on a par with anyone else's when Jose first went to the club. None of them made the leap up because of Chelsea's policy of buying ready made players.
Nothing will change. Same with City.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Tulip
Chelsea had a youth team that was on a par with anyone else's when Jose first went to the club. None of them made the leap up because of Chelsea's policy of buying ready made players.
Nothing will change. Same with City.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that's true but think it will be a little different now. They and a 10 year plan under Roman to be profitable and not rely on his money, to obviously buy up a lot of young players with a view to selling most on. They have been doing this.
Coupled together with maureen's remarks about he would have failed if these 5 or so English youth products didn't come through and a few other comments makes me believe they have changed tact somewhat. Loftus-Cheek is an example of the first of a few of them getting chances. People can change, clubs can change, I mean look at us, the new wannabe Galacticos, only Bale, CR7 ,Muller, Benzema, are not attainable
Loftus has not been getting much of a run at all. Wilson has had far more first team game time than him.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 minutes ago
Loftus has not been getting much of a run at all. Wilson has had far more first team game time than him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was only introduced the last couple of months really of the season. It does remain to be seen whether Mourinho has the balls to throw a couple in and be more of a risk taker as his approach is safety first normally and he doesn't sacrifice anything that prevents him winning.
It's a case of the grass in green with you Iron.
You claim City and Chelsea have great youth set ups and use Chelsea's recent CL youth success but then also ignore the fact we also won the the U21 PL.
You mention Loftus-Cheek as being some big talent but then ignore the fact that so too is Wilson who is only 1 month older yet has played far more first team football. There are no guarantees that any of these young talents will succeed and if anything history will show that it's highly unlikely at both City and Chelsea with maybe 1 or 2 at most making the grade.
Our club is in a very important phase, we have recently lost our manager who ran this club for over 2 decades and big changes are needed. Bringing through youth is not a short term plan, it takes a while to flourish and any manager coming in will want his ideas implemented to some degree and that takes time.
What we are seeing with our spending in the past 12 months is unusual for us but also something that we have had to do. We are lacking experience and leaders all over our team and it's important that we bring them in as well as looking to the future we also seem to be doing with signing such as Depay and Shaw.
To ignore players just because they are considered too old and not part of any possible future is foolish. A club continually grows and evolves, and that is done by bringing in both young and old players.
Not really...it's a case of wanting us to have some young players coming through together that's all and not get left behind on that front. We needed to spend so much as we have been left in a mess with ageing stars.
I just don't want us buying too many older players.
It's quite simple.
Wilson, Mcnair, Blackett, Perreira are decent I agree...
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LVG to indicate likely team for Spurs
Page 2 of 3
posted on 25/7/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Hafi actually making a valid point. This idea that once you reach a specific age means you are past it is nonsense.
Yes most players will begin to decline in their late 20s but every player is different. Being 30 doesn't make you instantly worse than being 29. You have to take into consideration a players condition which like I said will mean players aged 30 can sometimes be in better condition that someone younger.
Iron
You said yesterday that we needed to be more like City and Chelsea in bringing in youth players but then failed to list them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chelsea have a host that won the U19s CL and youth cup and loads of others out on loan. Loftus-Cheek, Baker,Brown,Solanke,Christensen to name just a few..
I read a lot of articles on youth players and Chelsea and City are stockpiling them at a very young age.
I read somewhere that LVG want to address this and the signing of the GK and Dutch CB and going after that French kid suggests we are looking to improve this at least.
posted on 25/7/15
comment by The Iron Tulip's Philosophy (U17867)
posted 21 minutes ago
Well lets hope BS doesn't keep getting injuries.
IMO we shouldn't bother signing anyone over 30 now.
Build for the future.Ramos and Pedro will do nicely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so anyone 30+ is not worth signing and too old but buying a 29 year old like Ramos is considered building for the future?
posted on 25/7/15
btw when I say late 30's as in still quite regularly although Giggs did make 40. Giggs at 40 was key player to RVP getting his hat-trick at 40. Since Scholes retired we have struggled so you can't say worse players or it could have been just management.
posted on 25/7/15
On about Olympiakos game. Our squad is the youngest of last season top 4.
posted on 25/7/15
And who are the current PL U21 champions you idiot. I'm sure you could equally name a bunch of unproven talent from United's youth teams as well.
Even then it still doesn't guarantee anything as most of these players will likely fail to make the grade. Stock piling youth players really isn't guaranteed to succeed, it actually hinders the chance of many youth players.
You need balance but more than that you need good players whatever their age.
posted on 25/7/15
comment by I am the Knight. (U20574)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by The Iron Tulip's Philosophy (U17867)
posted 21 minutes ago
Well lets hope BS doesn't keep getting injuries.
IMO we shouldn't bother signing anyone over 30 now.
Build for the future.Ramos and Pedro will do nicely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
so anyone 30+ is not worth signing and too old but buying a 29 year old like Ramos is considered building for the future?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramos should be capable of 3-4 years at the top at least and yes 2 years at that stage of the career is quite a big difference. We already signed a 31 yr old.
Hoping he isn't injured all the time.
The club even had a policy before of not going for players I think over 27 and not offering contracts over 1 year once they get to 30. No sell on fee either obviously.
posted on 25/7/15
There is no reason Carrick cannot carry on for a few more years... He can be our Pirlo
the biggest concern is that the older you get, the more injuries you pick up and the longer it takes to get back to form.
posted on 25/7/15
Bastian is 30, he's 31 in a few days but this just shows how idiotic your logic is.
You say that we need to buy players that are not over 30, so are you implying that Bastian in 7 days will become a lesser player because he is 1 year older?
posted on 25/7/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
And who are the current PL U21 champions you idiot. I'm sure you could equally name a bunch of unproven talent from United's youth teams as well.
Even then it still doesn't guarantee anything as most of these players will likely fail to make the grade. Stock piling youth players really isn't guaranteed to succeed, it actually hinders the chance of many youth players.
You need balance but more than that you need good players whatever their age.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We only won the U21s as we don't have shed loads on loan and regularly played first team players in there as LVG likes to do that for players to regain fitness after injury for example.
Winning the U19s CL is no mean feat.
How can stockpiling young players hinder the chances of many youth players ? They are the youth and the best will come through or be sold for decent money.
Our scouting over all for ages has been crap as many regularly like to write about here.
posted on 25/7/15
LVG admitted it, he gives time for players to recover
http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9924047/lvg-coy-on-di-maria-future
I always thought he gives an extra week then usual before players play a game fully.
posted on 25/7/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 1 minute ago
Bastian is 30, he's 31 in a few days but this just shows how idiotic your logic is.
You say that we need to buy players that are not over 30, so are you implying that Bastian in 7 days will become a lesser player because he is 1 year older?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No I am not , you are so pedantic as per normal.
I am simply just saying one player bought that age is enough and you have to look at it over all. Yes there has to be some common sense in there and we needed a leader and his type in midfield. Just don't think we need anyone else that age or older.
I personally want to see a younger side being built that can play together for 5+ years.
posted on 25/7/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/7/15
I'm being pedantic to show how stupid your logic is.
A well balanced side needs a mixture of youth and experience. Our CM options currently consist of Carrick, Bastian, Morgan, Herrera, Fellaini and Blind which I think is a very good balance. Our CB options on the other hand consist of Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Evans, Blackett and McNair which is clearly lacking in experience.
If a player is available who can improve our squad then his age should not be a major negative factor.
posted on 25/7/15
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9924034/diego-costa-expects-radamel-falcao-to-succeed-at-chelsea
I highly doubt it.
posted on 25/7/15
Sorry but City and Chelsea are the last clubs I would associate with youth.
John Terry was the last product of their youth team that made the leap to being a regular in their first team.
The only one I can think of for City was Flitcroft.
posted on 25/7/15
With regards to first team players, I will go with LVGs recent comments on the issue, in that everyone will be fighting for their place.
posted on 25/7/15
Did someone really suggest Chelsea will give youth a chance?
posted on 25/7/15
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 7 minutes ago
Did someone really suggest Chelsea will give youth a chance?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know they haven't previously but they didn't have very good youth. I honestly think Maureen will introduce 2 or 3 this and next season. Loftus-Cheek obviously and a couple of others. They don't really need to buy anyone either.
Ask knowledgable Chelsea fans their opinion perhaps instead of some of the resident know alls here.
Somebody says spending money doesn't guarantee success, that's correct but exactly what we are trying to do now to recover lost ground. Lets hope it works then.
My idea about building for the future is not the whole first XI obviously, it's a core of 5-8 players experiencing
success and then being hungry for more etc
posted on 25/7/15
Tulip
Chelsea had a youth team that was on a par with anyone else's when Jose first went to the club. None of them made the leap up because of Chelsea's policy of buying ready made players.
Nothing will change. Same with City.
posted on 25/7/15
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 5 minutes ago
Tulip
Chelsea had a youth team that was on a par with anyone else's when Jose first went to the club. None of them made the leap up because of Chelsea's policy of buying ready made players.
Nothing will change. Same with City.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah that's true but think it will be a little different now. They and a 10 year plan under Roman to be profitable and not rely on his money, to obviously buy up a lot of young players with a view to selling most on. They have been doing this.
Coupled together with maureen's remarks about he would have failed if these 5 or so English youth products didn't come through and a few other comments makes me believe they have changed tact somewhat. Loftus-Cheek is an example of the first of a few of them getting chances. People can change, clubs can change, I mean look at us, the new wannabe Galacticos, only Bale, CR7 ,Muller, Benzema, are not attainable
posted on 25/7/15
Loftus has not been getting much of a run at all. Wilson has had far more first team game time than him.
posted on 25/7/15
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 8 minutes ago
Loftus has not been getting much of a run at all. Wilson has had far more first team game time than him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was only introduced the last couple of months really of the season. It does remain to be seen whether Mourinho has the balls to throw a couple in and be more of a risk taker as his approach is safety first normally and he doesn't sacrifice anything that prevents him winning.
posted on 25/7/15
It's a case of the grass in green with you Iron.
You claim City and Chelsea have great youth set ups and use Chelsea's recent CL youth success but then also ignore the fact we also won the the U21 PL.
You mention Loftus-Cheek as being some big talent but then ignore the fact that so too is Wilson who is only 1 month older yet has played far more first team football. There are no guarantees that any of these young talents will succeed and if anything history will show that it's highly unlikely at both City and Chelsea with maybe 1 or 2 at most making the grade.
Our club is in a very important phase, we have recently lost our manager who ran this club for over 2 decades and big changes are needed. Bringing through youth is not a short term plan, it takes a while to flourish and any manager coming in will want his ideas implemented to some degree and that takes time.
What we are seeing with our spending in the past 12 months is unusual for us but also something that we have had to do. We are lacking experience and leaders all over our team and it's important that we bring them in as well as looking to the future we also seem to be doing with signing such as Depay and Shaw.
To ignore players just because they are considered too old and not part of any possible future is foolish. A club continually grows and evolves, and that is done by bringing in both young and old players.
posted on 25/7/15
1982
Outstanding.
posted on 25/7/15
Not really...it's a case of wanting us to have some young players coming through together that's all and not get left behind on that front. We needed to spend so much as we have been left in a mess with ageing stars.
I just don't want us buying too many older players.
It's quite simple.
Wilson, Mcnair, Blackett, Perreira are decent I agree...
Page 2 of 3