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Can could be a dm too.. Allen can play there in a pinch.

Pre injuries lucas was statistically the best dm in the league, recovered the ball more often than any other dm and lost possession less frequently, the two main things you are looking for.

I don't think skrtel helps, skrtel makes himself look good, the way he flies in to tackles often leaves his partner isolated, and he often steps out of position to try to head/intercept the ball..

One of our recent friendlies had a typical example: lovren got pelters because we conceded, but skrtel had rushed out flying in to a tackle and left lovren against two men.

The days of blood and thunder defending are gone, you need a bit more intelligence in the modern game, we won't improve defensively as long as skrtel is our rb.

There are things he does very well, and he was great in a three because he could go about his business knowing he had cover.

IRU I agree with you about Skrtel. If you look back our defence has never really been solid since he started playing regularly. Obviously its not all down to him as you pointed out.
DM, LB and right CB are areas that can be improved.

When you need Lucas the most he will break down. He missed some big games last season due to injuries and should really be backup but backup to who?

- Allen is dreadful
- Can is more box to box
- Milner & Hendo are better attacking.

People can't really expect us to fix all our problems in one window though surely?

I agree tbf, it's still a weak spot in the squad. And I don't get how Can has become a world class dm over the course of the summer, as some people seem to think

Under Rodgers we have tried:

- New keeper
- New CBs
- New full backs

One thing we have not tried was a new DM to aid our poor defensive record. Perhaps we should have made a DM a priority.

Skrtel has always been the problem. Can occasionally have a good game but most of the time he's out of position and causing his defensive partner problems.

Sakho is our best defender and he needs a capable partner.

It's probably because we don't play with a defensive midfielder.

I still don't understand the problem people have with Skrtel. He's our best defender. Sahko and Lovren may well come good but we need Skrtel next to one of them. I don't fancy a Sakho-Lovren partnership, they make enough individual errors alone, I can only imagine how they'd be without Skrtel's organisation next to them.

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Skrtel has been the mainstay of all our poor defences (post Clarke)

The first half of the season in Rodgers first year partnering agger, dropped for a carra /agger partnership and we solidified at the back..

The title challenge season skrtel was in statistically our worst defensive partnerships (chances created against us, goals scored)

Last season, again the mainstay of the team cue defensive woes.

Rafael nor hodgson ever trusted him (two "defensive" managers)

And in his entire career with us we have a lower win % with him in the squad (15% ish)

We have tried different people in the dm spot, the only thing we haven't tried is replacing skrtel.

I don't know how some of our more level headed posters can't see how often he is out of position!

You do realise that BR's game is all about winning the ball back as early as possible which is why Skrtel rushes out to intercept the ball early winning it 90% of the time stopping potential opposition attacks. People are blind when it comes to Skrtel, i don't understand the hate

We were weak in the DM position last season and are even weaker now Gerrard has gone. I don't think Can will be suited to it either which really leaves Lucas as the only one who can play that role.

I'm not sure why we are in talks to sign Digne (if true) when the money could be better spent in this position.

I don't think he wants one. He wants a deep lying play maker to move it quickly and accurately.

Lucas is fine at this bar the passing range but the game is more about interceptions now anyway. If we press as a unit then it's fine but technically there is an issue in the turnover as you can isolate defenders with two passes. This is why teams leave two on the half way line against us.

None of that is Skrtels faults and at every team BR has managed he has let in more than a goal a game. The way around that is better passers and more mobile, intelligent midfielders. We lack quality in this area.

As IRU said we cant fix all our problems in one summer. I would be happy with Digne if the deal is a good one.
Also, no one hates Skrtel, perhaps they just dont rate him.

Probably going to get slated for this but I really do not think Can is capable of playing the DM position. He is not mobile enough, he gets turned to easily and can't make up the ground to catch a player once they have moved the ball past him.

Allen - Could be a DM in a team down the bottom of the table but I am sorry he is not up to our standard.

Lucas is our only DM and when he does not play I get as worried as our defence. Our defence never has any cover and it makes them look bad whenever Licas does not play.

We need another DM. No more attacking midfielders

Have to agree with you T Bone, Can game is about getting the ball and driving forward. He is also a very good passer and loves a tackle. I don't think he has the discipline to sit infront of the defence win ball and give ball.

comment by (Kash) Mario Balle Balle Balotelli - Justice4Gaza (U1108)
posted 3 minutes ago
Have to agree with you T Bone, Can game is about getting the ball and driving forward. He is also a very good passer and loves a tackle. I don't think he has the discipline to sit infront of the defence win ball and give ball.
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Agreed. I actually think Can could play the role we are giving to Milner. Can is so composed on the ball and is powerful when he attacks. I really think he needs to be the driving force in a midfield 3 but I think he will not get that many games with Henderson, Lucas and Milner being the main starters.

comment by Saggy8 (U19042)
posted 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
You do realise that BR's game is all about winning the ball back as early as possible which is why Skrtel rushes out to intercept the ball early winning it 90% of the time stopping potential opposition attacks. People are blind when it comes to Skrtel, i don't understand the hate
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Perhaps you should review his stats.

Phil Jones is ridiculed on here but made twice as many tackles and interceptions per game as skrtel without making any defensive errors leading to goals last season.

Mertersacker is another who gets pelters, yet he makes more interceptions than skrtel, a third of the defensive errors and wins 5% more of his aerial duels.

John Terry with no pace and his advancing years made half the number of errors skrtel did. And even with the team in front of him set up defensively made as many tackles per game as skrtel did!

Also if you can provide some evidence as to skrtels interception % of 90 I would appreciate it

There is plenty around that demonstrates his near 50% tackle rate. Which for a primary centre back is simply awful.

I agree that Skrtel gets more criticism than other defenders relative to his performance levels but to me that has to be put in context.

He's not a wonderful defender, he's decent and that's about it. Maybe we've been spoilt in recent years with Henchoz, Hyypia, Carra & Agger (at his best) but Skrtel isn't in that league. The trouble is, I agree he's our best defender which I think probably points to a cause of frustration. As Skrtel is the most senior CB he receives the most criticism.

It should probably also be said that Skrtel is treated somewhat harshly because he should be at his peak right now whereas someone like Sakho should (theoretically) be improving. As such Sakho gets cut a bit more slack because there is hope he can exceed Skrtel's level. I think if their ages were reversed then so too would many of their critics.

Lucas used to be great but I think it's fair to say that we're about to see his future with Liverpool played out. He's back from injury and if his level can get back to where it once was then he'll be a prominent squad member. If not I think he'll be gone in January.

Either way I don't think we'll see a classic DM played his year in many games. Personally I expect to see Henderson slightly deeper than last year, Milner starting most games as CM and Can getting fair share as well. None as specialised DMs in my opinion.

comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
Skrtel has been the mainstay of all our poor defences (post Clarke)

The first half of the season in Rodgers first year partnering agger, dropped for a carra /agger partnership and we solidified at the back..

The title challenge season skrtel was in statistically our worst defensive partnerships (chances created against us, goals scored)

Last season, again the mainstay of the team cue defensive woes.

Rafael nor hodgson ever trusted him (two "defensive" managers)

And in his entire career with us we have a lower win % with him in the squad (15% ish)

We have tried different people in the dm spot, the only thing we haven't tried is replacing skrtel.

I don't know how some of our more level headed posters can't see how often he is out of position!
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I don't understand why you keep trotting out that Skrtel has been the mainstay in poor defences, surely then you have to look at why the defences are poor, considering Skrtel has been our best defender, surely you have to then look at the other defenders?

If you have two strikers, who have thirty goals between them, one striker has been the mainstay and has 25 goals, the other played 20 games and scored 5, you would say hold on a second here, the striker who has 25 goals has been the mainstay and that's why we've only scored 30 goals this season.

I just don't think some people on here are very good at judging defenders.

Lovren made more tackles and interceptions per game than skrtel, as did sakho, toure made the same number of tackles, but 1/3rd of the interceptions.

Lovren won the highest % of aerial duels, 7% more thank skrtel per game, sakho won 6% less per game than skrtel.

Lovren falls down with the fact he gave the ball away 5% more, made more unsuccessful tackles (putting in more than 3 tackles a game to skrtels 2 as well as intercepting mote) and made 1/3rd more errors per game than skrtel.

All in all on 6 stats compared lovren has the best statistics on 3 skrtel wins 1 and draws with sakho on 1
And toure wins the other category

It's worth noting that skrtels "win" is on unsuccessful tackles, but he also puts in the least numbers tackles per game. So that would be par for the course and even though he puts in The LEAST tackles per game. He gives away the MOST fouls.

The stat he draws with sakho on his passing accuracy.

I should also mention that statistically he was almost universally better than the year before, and has shown statistical progression for three years (particularly on stats with the ball, passing, take on's etc)

But skrtel is at his peak, the others are not. They will improve, he probably will not now.

Lovren stats are pretty good considering it was his first year, he got a rough start and has been left horribly exposed due to skrtels penchant for wandering out of position, the fact he doesn't put many tackles in (and half are fouls, 75% of which conceed a free kick) and has a poor aerial duels % for an experienced player at his peak, competing at the top of the league.

I'm not saying skrtel isn't a solid player, but we will never have a top class defence with him in it.

His inability to effectively partner hyypia, carra, and agger demonstrates that, as they all worked perfectly well together otherwise.

As does the much lower win % over his career when he has played.