why not put an extra charge on the sale of tv's? Little Ethel, who only gets a minimal pension might find the license fee a bit of a struggle, so she will pay the charge when she first buys her tv, but it lasts her a good few years before she needs to buy a new one.
Hooray Henry, posh boy and chucks money around like confetti, buys tv's for every room in his house, including integrated into the wall in his bathroom and the back of the toilet door. He clearly has a lot of money and watches a lot of tv because he is happy to pay for many, so he wil pay several charges more than little old ethel.
Better than the tv license?
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you link the references please Berba
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
Unknown Poster (U15867)
posted 48 seconds ago
why not put an extra charge on the sale of tv's?
________________________________________
They do, it's called VAT.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
"but a "tv tax" in 2015 is ludicrous in my opinion."
That's because it isn't a TV tax at all, it's a tax to keep the BBC running. A service which is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
If we have shows like Planet Earth, Wonders of the Universe etc more often, then it would be an amazing channel. Instead money is ploughed into crap TV and radio people don't listen to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it is a tax on using a tv - or laptop - to watch live programs, it is a tv tax in all but name.
and all i ever hear from people defending the bcc is reference to their nature programs...blimey, give me £4bn a year, every year, without me having to work for it, and i'll make you some superb nature shows, honest!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a tax for tv, tv online, radio, news, websites....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not really, you're confusing the sources and uses of the cash.
the source is a tax only on people watching live tv - none of your other activities require anyone to pay any tax at all.
the uses are to fund the bbc's entire output - including radio and online.
vehicle tax may or may not be used solely to fund transport costs, but it is still a tax on vehicles, whatever it is used for. don't own a vehicle don't pay the tax; don't own a tv don't pay the licence fee, even if you spend all day listening to bbc radio.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 15 seconds ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i always get confused when people talk about the left-wing bbc, when it is clear, as you say, that it is a bastion of the establishment, and it's not for the right or the left, but for the institutions of the establishment.
come the revolution the royals may be first up against the wall, but the bbc royal correspondents won't be far behind.
----------------------
Exactly. The problem with print and broadcast media is not that it is necessarily 'this wing' or 'that wing'. The problem is systemic, institutional bias.
The media ARE power. Take the print press. They are corporations (run for profit), whose revenue mostly comes from other corporations (advertisers) and they are supposed to report honestly and critically on a world dominated by corporate power. What picture of the world, by and large, would anyone expect to emerge? One that is critical and truly challenging of power, or one that is servantile to power?
The same is true for the BBC, albeit through slightly different mechanisms (closer ties to the state, the mysterious Trust and the various links to the financial industries etc...).
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 20 seconds ago
Unknown Poster (U15867)
posted 48 seconds ago
why not put an extra charge on the sale of tv's?
________________________________________
They do, it's called VAT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, yes. Instead of the license fee...
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
"but a "tv tax" in 2015 is ludicrous in my opinion."
That's because it isn't a TV tax at all, it's a tax to keep the BBC running. A service which is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
If we have shows like Planet Earth, Wonders of the Universe etc more often, then it would be an amazing channel. Instead money is ploughed into crap TV and radio people don't listen to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it is a tax on using a tv - or laptop - to watch live programs, it is a tv tax in all but name.
and all i ever hear from people defending the bcc is reference to their nature programs...blimey, give me £4bn a year, every year, without me having to work for it, and i'll make you some superb nature shows, honest!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a tax for tv, tv online, radio, news, websites....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not really, you're confusing the sources and uses of the cash.
the source is a tax only on people watching live tv - none of your other activities require anyone to pay any tax at all.
the uses are to fund the bbc's entire output - including radio and online.
vehicle tax may or may not be used solely to fund transport costs, but it is still a tax on vehicles, whatever it is used for. don't own a vehicle don't pay the tax; don't own a tv don't pay the licence fee, even if you spend all day listening to bbc radio.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know
Yes the 'tax' in name is for tv licenses, but in reality it funds all of the BBCs services. If a significant quantity of people decided they weren't going to pay as they don't watch BBC TV it wouldn't be long before the BBC would not be able to provide these mysterious "free" services (that it currently must provide out of goodwill)
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's an issue - but not the issue at hand.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's an issue - but not the issue at hand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is, because I'm suggesting the BBC are wasting the money we are all obliged to pay.
If we all have to pay, we should also have a say in what is produced. Almost everybody on here agrees the BBC are not spending their budgets very well.
comment by Republik of Mancunia (U6779)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you link the references please Berba
--------------------------
I'' come back later but check out the studies by Glasgow Uni Media Group (two studies called 'Bad News from Israel' and 'More Bad News From Israel'
Check out Medialens.org (they've produced the leading work on analysing the systemic bias of UK corporate news output, including the BBC - over 10 years worth of free archived 'media alerts' to get through!!)
You have to pay, but check out the studies of Media Tenor and the University of Wales on the pre-Iraq invasion coverage (findings summarised here:, paragraph 11: http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-are-wars-not-being-reported-honestly)
See the work of James Curran (Media and Power) and for a broader understanding of how all this works see the seminal works of Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent (it's about US media but the exact same thing applies here).
That should get you started!
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in 10 years most cars will have DAB radios, same as TV now (10 years on) have digital aerials.
I wouldn't mind the idea of the TV licence if they actually had good quality programmes on, unfortunately the majority of shows on the BBC are pure crap.
I probably watch the BBC for about an hour a month. Would rather have adverts to be honest.
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 18 minutes ago
I can't believe people are so bothered about £12 a month. It's probably the best value of any product or service out there, I genuinely cannot think of something that offers so much for so little - maybe the NHS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Me too, some of the best shows are made by the BBC. Peaky Blinders for a start. I agree some of this social experiment, reality TV is sheet. I also hate the Lottery shows for a different reason but I just avoid it so no issue really.
Some of the best Sports shows are made by the BBC, the Olympics was brilliant, as is the coverage of Wimbledon. Match of the Day is way better than when it was on ITV (despite Alan Shearer and other presenters, the BBC just do it better imo).
The best documentaries are on the BBC including Storyville. Some of the best new comedies in years are on there along with Live at the Apollo which is brilliant for showcasing some of the best comedians in the business.
In fact there is so much that is good about it that I can't understand why anyone begrudges paying £2.50 a week, means tested.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's an issue - but not the issue at hand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is, because I'm suggesting the BBC are wasting the money we are all obliged to pay.
If we all have to pay, we should also have a say in what is produced. Almost everybody on here agrees the BBC are not spending their budgets very well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But, it's fúck all money... so why get so worried about it?
I know that you have Sky (we've spoken about it before) and I also know that you have a brand new car on a lease plan... £10 for BBC services pales into insignificance when you think about these other things.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in 10 years most cars will have DAB radios, same as TV now (10 years on) have digital aerials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so in 10 years maybe the services can be split up and on a subscribe system.
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in 10 years most cars will have DAB radios, same as TV now (10 years on) have digital aerials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so in 10 years maybe the services can be split up and on a subscribe system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, now. Just like when the country went digital for TV, we can do so for BBC radio.
Those without DAB can still listen to other stations, if you want BBC radio that badly you can have it installed in your car, just like if you wanted to install a digital aerial. If you think back, hardly any household had digital aerials installed when the move was made.
Yeah, but there was like 5 years (maybe more) of the "digital is coming..." adverts
If they get rid of all of the reality TV crap on the BBC it would free up tonnes of £ to produce television that the BBC should stand for, like Planet Earth, etc.
Leave the reality TV for the itv's, channel 4's,5's of the world.
BBC should focus on educational and sporting television. It's a travesty how many sporting events the BBC has lost recently. When Wimbledon goes, what does it really have left?
BBC is selling its soul for reality tv shows and trying to compete with advertised television when it really doesn't have to.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Republik of Mancunia (U6779)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you link the references please Berba
--------------------------
I'' come back later but check out the studies by Glasgow Uni Media Group (two studies called 'Bad News from Israel' and 'More Bad News From Israel'
Check out Medialens.org (they've produced the leading work on analysing the systemic bias of UK corporate news output, including the BBC - over 10 years worth of free archived 'media alerts' to get through!!)
You have to pay, but check out the studies of Media Tenor and the University of Wales on the pre-Iraq invasion coverage (findings summarised here:, paragraph 11: http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-are-wars-not-being-reported-honestly)
See the work of James Curran (Media and Power) and for a broader understanding of how all this works see the seminal works of Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent (it's about US media but the exact same thing applies here).
That should get you started!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Berba, I'll have a read
Sign in if you want to comment
BBC / License Fee
Page 6 of 8
6 | 7 | 8
posted on 28/7/15
why not put an extra charge on the sale of tv's? Little Ethel, who only gets a minimal pension might find the license fee a bit of a struggle, so she will pay the charge when she first buys her tv, but it lasts her a good few years before she needs to buy a new one.
Hooray Henry, posh boy and chucks money around like confetti, buys tv's for every room in his house, including integrated into the wall in his bathroom and the back of the toilet door. He clearly has a lot of money and watches a lot of tv because he is happy to pay for many, so he wil pay several charges more than little old ethel.
Better than the tv license?
posted on 28/7/15
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you link the references please Berba
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
posted on 28/7/15
Unknown Poster (U15867)
posted 48 seconds ago
why not put an extra charge on the sale of tv's?
________________________________________
They do, it's called VAT.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
"but a "tv tax" in 2015 is ludicrous in my opinion."
That's because it isn't a TV tax at all, it's a tax to keep the BBC running. A service which is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
If we have shows like Planet Earth, Wonders of the Universe etc more often, then it would be an amazing channel. Instead money is ploughed into crap TV and radio people don't listen to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it is a tax on using a tv - or laptop - to watch live programs, it is a tv tax in all but name.
and all i ever hear from people defending the bcc is reference to their nature programs...blimey, give me £4bn a year, every year, without me having to work for it, and i'll make you some superb nature shows, honest!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a tax for tv, tv online, radio, news, websites....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not really, you're confusing the sources and uses of the cash.
the source is a tax only on people watching live tv - none of your other activities require anyone to pay any tax at all.
the uses are to fund the bbc's entire output - including radio and online.
vehicle tax may or may not be used solely to fund transport costs, but it is still a tax on vehicles, whatever it is used for. don't own a vehicle don't pay the tax; don't own a tv don't pay the licence fee, even if you spend all day listening to bbc radio.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 15 seconds ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i always get confused when people talk about the left-wing bbc, when it is clear, as you say, that it is a bastion of the establishment, and it's not for the right or the left, but for the institutions of the establishment.
come the revolution the royals may be first up against the wall, but the bbc royal correspondents won't be far behind.
----------------------
Exactly. The problem with print and broadcast media is not that it is necessarily 'this wing' or 'that wing'. The problem is systemic, institutional bias.
The media ARE power. Take the print press. They are corporations (run for profit), whose revenue mostly comes from other corporations (advertisers) and they are supposed to report honestly and critically on a world dominated by corporate power. What picture of the world, by and large, would anyone expect to emerge? One that is critical and truly challenging of power, or one that is servantile to power?
The same is true for the BBC, albeit through slightly different mechanisms (closer ties to the state, the mysterious Trust and the various links to the financial industries etc...).
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 20 seconds ago
Unknown Poster (U15867)
posted 48 seconds ago
why not put an extra charge on the sale of tv's?
________________________________________
They do, it's called VAT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, yes. Instead of the license fee...
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Don Draper's dandruff (U20155)
posted 53 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
"but a "tv tax" in 2015 is ludicrous in my opinion."
That's because it isn't a TV tax at all, it's a tax to keep the BBC running. A service which is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
If we have shows like Planet Earth, Wonders of the Universe etc more often, then it would be an amazing channel. Instead money is ploughed into crap TV and radio people don't listen to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
it is a tax on using a tv - or laptop - to watch live programs, it is a tv tax in all but name.
and all i ever hear from people defending the bcc is reference to their nature programs...blimey, give me £4bn a year, every year, without me having to work for it, and i'll make you some superb nature shows, honest!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a tax for tv, tv online, radio, news, websites....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not really, you're confusing the sources and uses of the cash.
the source is a tax only on people watching live tv - none of your other activities require anyone to pay any tax at all.
the uses are to fund the bbc's entire output - including radio and online.
vehicle tax may or may not be used solely to fund transport costs, but it is still a tax on vehicles, whatever it is used for. don't own a vehicle don't pay the tax; don't own a tv don't pay the licence fee, even if you spend all day listening to bbc radio.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know
Yes the 'tax' in name is for tv licenses, but in reality it funds all of the BBCs services. If a significant quantity of people decided they weren't going to pay as they don't watch BBC TV it wouldn't be long before the BBC would not be able to provide these mysterious "free" services (that it currently must provide out of goodwill)
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's an issue - but not the issue at hand.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's an issue - but not the issue at hand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is, because I'm suggesting the BBC are wasting the money we are all obliged to pay.
If we all have to pay, we should also have a say in what is produced. Almost everybody on here agrees the BBC are not spending their budgets very well.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Republik of Mancunia (U6779)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you link the references please Berba
--------------------------
I'' come back later but check out the studies by Glasgow Uni Media Group (two studies called 'Bad News from Israel' and 'More Bad News From Israel'
Check out Medialens.org (they've produced the leading work on analysing the systemic bias of UK corporate news output, including the BBC - over 10 years worth of free archived 'media alerts' to get through!!)
You have to pay, but check out the studies of Media Tenor and the University of Wales on the pre-Iraq invasion coverage (findings summarised here:, paragraph 11: http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-are-wars-not-being-reported-honestly)
See the work of James Curran (Media and Power) and for a broader understanding of how all this works see the seminal works of Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent (it's about US media but the exact same thing applies here).
That should get you started!
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in 10 years most cars will have DAB radios, same as TV now (10 years on) have digital aerials.
posted on 28/7/15
I wouldn't mind the idea of the TV licence if they actually had good quality programmes on, unfortunately the majority of shows on the BBC are pure crap.
I probably watch the BBC for about an hour a month. Would rather have adverts to be honest.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 18 minutes ago
I can't believe people are so bothered about £12 a month. It's probably the best value of any product or service out there, I genuinely cannot think of something that offers so much for so little - maybe the NHS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Me too, some of the best shows are made by the BBC. Peaky Blinders for a start. I agree some of this social experiment, reality TV is sheet. I also hate the Lottery shows for a different reason but I just avoid it so no issue really.
Some of the best Sports shows are made by the BBC, the Olympics was brilliant, as is the coverage of Wimbledon. Match of the Day is way better than when it was on ITV (despite Alan Shearer and other presenters, the BBC just do it better imo).
The best documentaries are on the BBC including Storyville. Some of the best new comedies in years are on there along with Live at the Apollo which is brilliant for showcasing some of the best comedians in the business.
In fact there is so much that is good about it that I can't understand why anyone begrudges paying £2.50 a week, means tested.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 52 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 26 seconds ago
"on top of the 40% of our wages we already give to the government. "
If you are paying 40% of your gross wages to the govt. then you are earning about £150k. Why does £150 matter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not if you consider everything you buy had a VAT attached to it Robben.
Like most I pay around 20% in NI/Tax, I pay council tax, I pay road tax, I pay TV license and on everything I purchase 20% of what I am buying is also taxed. On a £2,000 a month income it works out to around 40%.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you not realise what you get in return for that?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To an extent, yes. But when I work with councils who blow hundreds of thousands of pounds for the sake of it to keep next years budgets I realise how much of our money goes to waste.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that's an issue - but not the issue at hand.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is, because I'm suggesting the BBC are wasting the money we are all obliged to pay.
If we all have to pay, we should also have a say in what is produced. Almost everybody on here agrees the BBC are not spending their budgets very well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But, it's fúck all money... so why get so worried about it?
I know that you have Sky (we've spoken about it before) and I also know that you have a brand new car on a lease plan... £10 for BBC services pales into insignificance when you think about these other things.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in 10 years most cars will have DAB radios, same as TV now (10 years on) have digital aerials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so in 10 years maybe the services can be split up and on a subscribe system.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 44 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 54 seconds ago
comment by Robben #20 (U1145)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 1 minute ago
"I think it's too unenforceable - how do you charge someone for tuning into BBC radio in their car ffs? "
You use digital radio. Just like on the TV.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every car has a digital radio. How would I log in to my BBC account through my FM transmitter?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not every house has a freeview Arial (mine included, and it was only built a year ago), yet TV went entirely digital years ago.
Why shouldn't radio? Almost all new cars are built with DAB.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"almost" yes and "new" cars yes.
How many people drive around in cars built in the past 2 years?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many houses come with a freeview Arial installed?
Almost none. People pay for the installation, same as people can buy a DAB radio for their car.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most houses have digital aerials now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And in 10 years most cars will have DAB radios, same as TV now (10 years on) have digital aerials.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so in 10 years maybe the services can be split up and on a subscribe system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, now. Just like when the country went digital for TV, we can do so for BBC radio.
Those without DAB can still listen to other stations, if you want BBC radio that badly you can have it installed in your car, just like if you wanted to install a digital aerial. If you think back, hardly any household had digital aerials installed when the move was made.
posted on 28/7/15
Yeah, but there was like 5 years (maybe more) of the "digital is coming..." adverts
posted on 28/7/15
If they get rid of all of the reality TV crap on the BBC it would free up tonnes of £ to produce television that the BBC should stand for, like Planet Earth, etc.
Leave the reality TV for the itv's, channel 4's,5's of the world.
BBC should focus on educational and sporting television. It's a travesty how many sporting events the BBC has lost recently. When Wimbledon goes, what does it really have left?
BBC is selling its soul for reality tv shows and trying to compete with advertised television when it really doesn't have to.
posted on 28/7/15
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Republik of Mancunia (U6779)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 22 minutes ago
I don't own a TV because I refuse to pay for a license. Albeit, my refusal to pay is over the BBC's shameful record on pro-power, pro-establishment bias in its reporting (which is well studied, analysed etc... I'll give you references if you want!)
It would be nice to be able to enjoy the sport and the nature documentaries and so on, which are obviously great. Whether or not I'd pay for them is another matter entirely but certainly with its current news output I won't be supporting it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you link the references please Berba
--------------------------
I'' come back later but check out the studies by Glasgow Uni Media Group (two studies called 'Bad News from Israel' and 'More Bad News From Israel'
Check out Medialens.org (they've produced the leading work on analysing the systemic bias of UK corporate news output, including the BBC - over 10 years worth of free archived 'media alerts' to get through!!)
You have to pay, but check out the studies of Media Tenor and the University of Wales on the pre-Iraq invasion coverage (findings summarised here:, paragraph 11: http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-are-wars-not-being-reported-honestly)
See the work of James Curran (Media and Power) and for a broader understanding of how all this works see the seminal works of Ed Herman and Noam Chomsky: Manufacturing Consent (it's about US media but the exact same thing applies here).
That should get you started!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers Berba, I'll have a read
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