Theo and ox, Sanchez should be our front three with Ozil playing behind imo. There is goals in these 3, why Wenger isn't trying it for a run of games is beyond me.

Jenius

I see where you're coming from, I just think the too many no10s is the issue as opposed to Giroud. So in fact Wenger essentially. Surely this should actually be as simple as Wenger or even the captain on the day dragging Ramsey and Sanchez aside and TELLING them "keep you're asses out wide and stay out of Mesut/Santi's way. You go straight down the wing with the ball or you lay it off and run in behind." Sanchez has two good feet and dribbles brilliantly so exactly why can't he go to the corner and put it on Girouds head?

It's not that we can't have Giroud in the team, it's that the attackers around him need to play their games, but to his strengths. I.e CROSS plenty for starters. Ozil could/should be slotting Sanchez into the corner to whip it in for Giroud. It is ridiculous how few crosses he gets given how good he is in the air. We're missing out on goals there.
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Spot on

posted 17 minutes ago
Theo and ox, Sanchez should be our front three with Ozil playing behind imo. There is goals in these 3, why Wenger isn't trying it for a run of games is beyond me.
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The pace of any two out of the three you mention running wide and crossing in would be great with giroud in the middle.

comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
Another in a long line of piece of sh-t excuses looking for every reason to abscond the one constant in the mess that have been Arsenal "title challenges" for over a decade now.

Just blame the stem of all these "imbalances" "sideways passers" "static centre forwards" "pussified players" "nappy wetters" and "lazy b-stards;" Arsene Wenger. It's really that simple.
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exactly.

It's Sanchez, no no no it's ozil, it's theo, it's cech,

Another in a long line of piece of sh-t excuses looking for every reason to abscond the one constant in the mess that have been Arsenal "title challenges" for over a decade now.

Just blame the stem of all these "imbalances" "sideways passers" "static centre forwards" "pussified players" "nappy wetters" and "lazy b-stards;" Arsene Wenger. It's really that simple.
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exactly.

It's Sanchez, no no no it's ozil, it's theo, it's cech,
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Explaining the mechanisms by which Wenger is failing to get the best out of his team is by no means an attempt to absolve him of blame. That was obvious from the first and last paragraphs (and my posting history).

It's not that we can't have Giroud in the team, it's that the attackers around him need to play their games, but to his strengths. I.e CROSS plenty for starters. Ozil could/should be slotting Sanchez into the corner to whip it in for Giroud. It is ridiculous how few crosses he gets given how good he is in the air. We're missing out on goals there.
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But Giroud is a no.10 wb2. Keown spelled it out very well. He is a backstop for deeper runners. The problem with what you suggest is that Giroud does not have the pace to lay the ball off to a Oxo, Theo or Alexis and then get into the box to put away the crosses. Now if you bypass him to allow him to play a yard higher up the pitch, you essentially have a channel running striker like Ian Wright. The problem is that Giroud does not run the channels and he can't break the game line (which refers to the defence of the opposition) so the center backs can easily push up on him and we still get that crowd on edge of the opposing area with all our players looking at each other for someone to make a run into the box.

Giroud is an old fashioned 4-4-2 link striker, not hold up striker, but one who links play into a faster striker ahead of him. And to be honest I don't think anyone can play 4-4-2 anymore because it leaves the middle of the pitch too exposed to be out numbered by the opposition. Its a real headache and one Wenger has refused to solve since RVP left!

,,,"the backline will result in significantly better performances than this slow, narrow mess which Wenger has been frustratingly experimenting with."

the tempo in our game isnt and wasnt the problem against West Ham and against Liverpool. Bollox

You can't really blame the offense/ce for the home draw vs Liverpool

We created more than enough goal scoring opportunities - Sanchez post, Mignolet save from Giroud, Ramsey's legitimate goal.

If Koscielny (best defender) was available we would have won.

Hope he is back on Saturday and we at least bring home the points a lá Palace. Oh and Sanchez is world class - shoe in for LF always.

Wish Wenger would trust the Ox or Theo trusted on the wing but have an open mind too to understand why Ramsey is selected there away from home

Good thread

I understand it's not the main point of the thread, but I've also always felt Welbeck helped to bring the best out of Sanchez.
I can appreciate why people aren't content with Welbeck starting as a striker for the club, but I think he does a huge amount off-the-ball that often goes underappreciated - not just his defensive work, but his willingness to stretch teams (running-in-behind, and running into the channels to provide width) often goes unnoticed.

The only thing I would disagree with - and you may just be making these suggestions to accommodate for Wenger's preference of having this sort of set-up - is the need for a more possession-centric player down the wing.

It seems paradoxical, but I feel as though trying to crowbar a creative midfielder in the wide positions and actually hinder our ability to retain possession - or at least meaningful possession.
When players like Cazorla, Wilshere, Ramsey etc play wide, they invariably drift-in-field, which congests our play. Having a natural counterbalance on the other side, as you suggest, goes some way towards ameliorating this, but I still don't see how it's better than simply having a more natural wideman in that position.

Pep Guardiola's sides have always had width down either flank to help open up space for the midfield, and to create the opportunities to overload the wide positions if teams try to blockade the centre of the park.
This is not to say he had old-fashion wingers hugging the touchline, but these were players who when to hold the width; could go beyond the full-back and help break-down disciplined defensive structures; who could link-up with the overlapping full-back (and try and create two-on-ones in the wide areas); and could generally just make it impossible to nullify his sides' creative threat by simply crowding out the middle of the pitch.
And doing so seems to aid their ability to retain possession.

On the flip-side, look how underwhelming - given the talent of their squad - Spain have looked recently when they keep trying to play people like Iniesta, Silva et al as their wingers. They look toothless compared to the Barcelona and Bayern sides coached by Guardiola.

Even though Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere and co are all considered to be excellent retainers of the ball, when they all converge in the centre of the final third and we try to be overly-intricate, we often end up giving away possession cheaply.....and when we do, there's space all over the field for the opposition to exploit and launch a counter (for example, when our 'wingers' come in-field, the full-backs usually push on, which usually leaves a whole flank free for the opponents to exploit; or when one of our deep-lying playmakers flies forward, like when Ramsey use to make runs from deep-in-behind the opposition defence, our DM is usually left with a huge amount of grass to cover).

I feel really frustrated for Chamberlain. He's arguably the only player we have who can consistently go past his full-back (he has the highest number of dribbles per game in the Premiership this season, despite the fact he's spent two of those 3 games coming on as a sub in the final stages of the match), and despite being MOTM against Chelsea in the CS, he's been dropped for a player who, by his own admission, isn't a winger.
I'm just worried that he's going to get pushed even further down the pecking order when Wilshere comes back from injury.

the tempo in our game isnt and wasnt the problem against West Ham and against Liverpool. Bollox
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Never said it was. When I said slow I was referring to the actual players. Like Ramsey who's too slow to stretch defences, or Giroud who's too slow to threaten in behind. All of which contributes to a build-up that's congested in the middle outside the box.

Sad thing is that Wenger refuses to change any of that. He will play the exact same team this week as well. Guaranteed.

Stu

I'm not really fussed about the whole creator/goalscorer combination as long as it fits in with the balance of the team as a whole. For instance I feel when we used to field Walcott on the right and Ramsey in the middle, we'd have enough threat in behind that we could allow the other wing to be occupied by a playmaker such as Cazorla.

Also Wenger did try the 2 direct winger experiment with Walcott and Gervinho, but it wasn't particularly successful, although that may have had something to do with the poor state of the midfield at the time.

I think ideally a player like Hazard would provide the best of both worlds, but naturally any such player would be hard to come by.

comment by renoog (U4449)
posted 6 minutes ago
the tempo in our game isnt and wasnt the problem against West Ham and against Liverpool. Bollox
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Never said it was. When I said slow I was referring to the actual players. Like Ramsey who's too slow to stretch defences, or Giroud who's too slow to threaten in behind. All of which contributes to a build-up that's congested in the middle outside the box.
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Its not about the slowness of Ramsey to stretch defenses. He hasnt got the technical ability to do so because he is a midfielder who's game is to run.

You can only threaten in behind if the ball were played there. We didnt see that against West Ham or Liverpool enough or too late. Giroud isnt the right man to play a style like that. He needs therefore someone who can do just that. But against Liverpool he was subbed when we finally looked we can play in behind.

Its not about the slowness of Ramsey to stretch defenses. He hasnt got the technical ability to do so because he is a midfielder who's game is to run.

You can only threaten in behind if the ball were played there. We didnt see that against West Ham or Liverpool enough or too late. Giroud isnt the right man to play a style like that. He needs therefore someone who can do just that. But against Liverpool he was subbed when we finally looked we can play in behind.
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I'm not blaming any players. It's the manager's job to combine each player's strengths in a way that clicks and gives us variety. Giroud works really at linking-up with runners from deep. And thrives on low near post crosses. But Wenger plays our best midfield runner on the wing, and our best low crossers on the bench. It's all a very confused system, and pretty much limits us to trying to score goals from one narrow area of the pitch, which is well-defended and requires extreme technical precision. Something which our players are capable of occasionally, but in general over 90 minutes it just results in lots of low-quality chances and failure to comfortably win games that we're obvious favourites for.

Yes welbeck does unlock defenses and bring width just like ox and Walcott. In my opinion we desperately need this instead of sticking a Ramsey or number 10 on the wing. I can't understand it, it's so obvious,

Couple of issues with the OP. First, I don't think its Sanchez, its Giroud. Too slow an breaks down fluid attacks. What some people call holding the ball up is normally when the defence run past him and get back in position to defend the attack. Giroud can only do first touch balls or stand there with the ball while the defence get back and then play a pass to an attacking midfielder who has to start he attack to break down the defence.

Cazorla is poor on the wing. He has been played there in the past and ends up getting flak from fans for under performing. Saying he should be put there shows a lack of learning from the past, are you Wenger? If your "solution" was tried, past performances show Ozil playing wide and Santi central work far better than the other way around.

If this is to be overcome we need to have a team of players that play fast attacking football or players that keep the ball and play possession football. At the moment I think we have attacking players and possession players mixed so are jack of all trades and master of none to use a saying.

It wouldn't take much tinkering to get the more traditional strong central midfield and attacking players in front of them. I'd personally go for Coq and Ramsey in the middle (I know some on here don't like Ramsey but his engine means he will run the whole game and when he doesn't break down opposition attacks he often slows them down allowing other players to get more organised). These two need to be disciplined though. You can then have your flare players in front with Sanchez and someone like Walcott or Ox on the right. Ozil or Santi central and a more mobile CF up front and I genuinely think we could have a squad capable of challenging for honours.

I get where you're coming from OP but think it's mostly irrelevant.

It's Wenger, Giroud and Ramsey who are unbalancing the side. Giroud by being rubbish and unable to hold up the ball or play off the shoulder. Ramsey is also sub par particularly from RW although we could probably get away with that if we had a different type of CF.

I think what I'm trying to say is all 3 of Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey are unbalanced but Sanchez is a great player who would do even better without dross like Giroud and Ramsey at RW.
Giroud is never going to be anything other than a lump and Ramsey is a shiiit right winger.

Sanchez is perhaps trying a little too hard but who does he have in front of him to work with?

Science

So why can't Sanchez dribble to the corner and cross the ball in for Giroud to get his head on it? Do you not think it's overly harsh critique on Giroud when you take into account that one of his strongest abilities is taken out of the game by wingers failing to cross him the ball?

Surely you can admit that cutting inside and dribbling into the area is playing to his weaknesses rather than his strengths in terms of his goals. I'm not saying a different front three wouldn't be more effective. Just that Giroud could be far more effective if Sanchez went to the byline and crossed the ball more than he cuts inside with it. Anyone would think crossing isn't in a wingers job description, watching Sanchez on the left.

I definitely get what your saying WBG

I simply don't think it's worth playing to the strengths of Giroud when it sacrifices the best qualities of far better players. If you watch Giroud he's a decent header of he ball from set pieces(offensively & defensively) but is very poor at getting on the end of in-play crosses because he lacks timing, movement and breakneck desire.

*you're

"Breakneck desire" I like that. I think he does have/show the desire but is that slow it can look like he's not trying. We could have better but I think his critics are too harsh and he's currently being made a scapegoat because people want a better striker bought.

I'm sounding a bit too MOTD there!

But I mean he just doesn't take those gambles to peel off a defender or give everything to get between defender and keeper on a cross. To me Giroud reacts to a pass rather taking a gamble on the space.

My adivce: play less Football Manager

comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 58 minutes ago
My adivce: play less Football Manager
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Never played Football manager

Play actual football instead...

comment by Science (U19684)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Gunnerthru (U6675)
posted 58 minutes ago
My adivce: play less Football Manager
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Never played Football manager

Play actual football instead...
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strange