Chicken being twisted up here
I just don't get it.
If we were talking around the 10-15m mark for a striker that isn't particularly prolific at the top level (with just 22 goals to his name in 2-3 years - including pens) I'd still think we were paying a bit too much.
The excuse that he only plays for West Brom is tosh too. Austin only played for QPR. Ighalo only plays for Watford. Bony only played for Swansea. And so on West Brom are an established PL club, not McCarthy's Sunderland.
The attitude since August has absolutely stank. Pulis has said it is affecting him still 3mths later. That is a poor mentality for me, a fragile mindset. Modric had a fe games out for us then was amazing. Stones has improved his performance since his move fell through. The difference in attitude is huge. The public comments on Twitter too....unprofessional.
On to him as a player. If Kane is out do I trust him to lead our line? I can't say I do. He is pretty small and not physically imposing. Does the ball stick to him, can he take it to the bettter CBs? Playing on the counter may with his pace but we don't play like that.
Do I see him being better than any of our wide options? Chadli scored a similar amount of PL goals than him from open play last season. Eriksen too. Is he going to be more direct and dynamic than Son? A more effective destructive 10 than Dembele? Then there is Lamela, Townsend, Pritchard.....
To me it is a huuuuuge waste of money
It's not a huge waste of money if he's the player Poch wants
Ferguson wanted Veron - it doesn't mean he wasn't a huge waste of money
Poch bought Fazio.....he is good but not infallible
Berahino doesn't score many, and he doesn't assist many either. There's a reason for that - he's bang average.
"He plays for West Brom..... He's on the bench a lot....."
The last time I checked, he wasn't competing with Messi, Suarez and Neymar for a place in the team, or Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Gotze and Douglas Costa.
So if he can't force his way into the starting lineup ahead of Anichebe, Ideye, Long, Lambert, Sessegnon and Rondon, that doesn't say an awful lot about him.
HRH,
I accept the arguments that Ferguson wanted Veron, Poch bought Fazio etc so we cant use any of that as arguments in this debate.
I just dont see how you can bring Berahino's stats into the debate (even though we have both previously claimed we are not necessarily stats men), but then want to muck around with them by taking goals away for pens - you either use the stats and include the figures you've got - or dont use that as your argument at all.
Last season Kane scored some heavily deflected goals and pens, but when we sperak of his goal record we dont (and shouldnt) be including only his clean hit goals that required skill and individuality - in my opinion all his goals count because he scored them - and the same goes for Berahino - and his stats are quite reasonable - not brilliant - but certainly good enough to be valued at £20m+.
I'm not a stat man, but we need a goalscorer - and this lad just doesn't score that many PL goals no matter what way you cut it.
20 odd in 80 appearances, including penalties. Without them it's even worse.
Where do you see him fitting in, seriously?
The problem is HRH, we are never going to attract the league's best scorer for £20m, so we have to take a small gamble somewhere - and why not go for someone who is proven in this league to a degree and has proven chemistry with our current main striker? It just seems a no brainer to me but it looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I v much doubt Levy will suddenly increase his bid from whatever we offered during the summer to £20m. The player can't get a game, has a confirmed attitude / professionalism problem and has little over a year remaining on his contract.
IF poch really wants him and thinks he can turn his fortunes around i would begrudgingly welcome him for no more than £12 - £15m this January.
Luka,
I think the price was over £20m, more like £25m, but regardless of what it was, i cant see WBA lowering that figure in the January TW. This is one of the hardest windows to get clubs to let players go.
What sort of chemistry do they have though? What is it based on? England were a shambles at the actual U21 tournament. Is this just qualifiers? Did England play them together in a 442? Because we won't.
Not knocking but this keeps being brought up as a bonus, yet I'd like a bit more detail.
The leagues best goalscorer is Jamie Vardy, and I'd guess we'd be able to buy him for that same 20-25m (not that I'd want us to). Maybe he is a one season wonder, but he's scored as many league goals as Berahino did last season (his best ever season) already.
Austin outscored him last season and is available at a third of the price.
HRH,
Who wouldn't take Vardy? He may be 27 or whatever he is, but i'd imagine clubs like Cheslea, United, Arsenal, City etc would be willing to pay well over £30m for him right now.
Berahino is realistic - Vardy is not.
To me we need someone to take the load off of Kane. Come the new year we may get in that cycle of playing virtually every weekened/midweek, and he will struggle to perform in so many games (assuming he stays fit and is actually available for every one).
That means getting another player in who can lead the line well and play on his own up top (as we virtually always line up). Hold the ball up, be physically strong enough to fend off physically imposing PL centre backs, be good both on the deck and in the air and actually score a good return of goals to boot.
Berahino hardly ticks any of those boxes. No more than Son or Chadli do really. For 20-25m - which by the way is an extremely big sum of money - I'd expect a but more.
Of course he is realistic.....this is Jamie Vardy who plays for Leicester, not Karim Benzema. He scored 5 goals last season, it's not like he's been regularly banging them in for several years at this level.
You see Arsenal paying 30m for a 29yr old player with one top flight season under his belt?
^one GOOD top flight season.
I still see nothing forthcoming about where he would fit in to our squad, where he could play, what he'd offer that we don't already have, and this relationship with Kane
You see Arsenal paying 30m for a 29yr old player with one top flight season under his belt?
==================
With their injury list and league position - yes i can.
Do you honestly think we could attract Vardy, to ask if he minds sitting on the bench until a time Kane may need a rest, in a season where he is on fire, and the Euros are just around the corner? No chance.
We are not going to get the league's best strikers in the January TW - and/or for less than £25m. This is another reason why Berahino is a reasonable and realistic choice.
So why pay 20-25m for an average one, when plenty of them are available for a fraction of that
He's average to you - but that isn't the general concensus - including Poch's. I'm not saying Poch is always right - or even that he will be here - but i believe £20-£25m is about right for this player at this moment in time. I honestly think he could be the missing piece in the puzzle.
If we are buying to sit on the bench until Kane needs a rest (your words re Vardy not being realistic) what relevance is Kane's playing relationship with Berahino?
Still not seen any convincing argument to buy a 25m substitute.
Still not seen a convincing argument as to where he'd fit in if he was playing in addition to Kane, and what he'd bring to one of the other attacking positions that we don't already have.
Where does he fit in then? What part of the puzzle is he?
It may sound like I'm going on but what is he bringing to our side that we don't already have?
In a generally defence-first side such as West Brom, where the pressure is low and they can often counter attack, will his performances up top for them translate in to a side which is generally front-foot and possession based, where teams set up to frustrate?
It may sound like I'm going on but what is he bringing to our side that we don't already have?
================
You're only going on as much as me - and this is what forums are for so go for it....
One thing he will bring to the table, and you speak about Vardy, but pace is something Kane is definitely missing and Berahino certainly has that.
Do you think Poch is wrong to consider him or are you just put off by the value?
I didn't say I wanted Vardy as you can see. I only mentioned him because you said about us not being able to buy the best goalscorer, which he is this sseason
"The leagues best goalscorer is Jamie Vardy, and I'd guess we'd be able to buy him for that same 20-25m (not that I'd want us to). Maybe he is a one season wonder, but he's scored as many league goals as Berahino did last season (his best ever season) already".
I don't think we lack pace in the forward positions at all - Son, Townsend and N'Jie are quick. It's up to Poch to use them wisely.
I think Poch is wrong to consider him, yes. In an era of us spending wisely with a new stadium build to contend with, I think he is a massive waste of funds.
I'd rather us buy a proper 9 for right now - such as Austin - and a younger player for the future that we can loan out such as Embolo or Dembele (who we appear to also be interested in, although I can't say I've seen them) who will probably cost less combined than Berahino would
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Page 8 of 9
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posted on 6/12/15
Chicken being twisted up here
posted on 6/12/15
I just don't get it.
If we were talking around the 10-15m mark for a striker that isn't particularly prolific at the top level (with just 22 goals to his name in 2-3 years - including pens) I'd still think we were paying a bit too much.
The excuse that he only plays for West Brom is tosh too. Austin only played for QPR. Ighalo only plays for Watford. Bony only played for Swansea. And so on West Brom are an established PL club, not McCarthy's Sunderland.
The attitude since August has absolutely stank. Pulis has said it is affecting him still 3mths later. That is a poor mentality for me, a fragile mindset. Modric had a fe games out for us then was amazing. Stones has improved his performance since his move fell through. The difference in attitude is huge. The public comments on Twitter too....unprofessional.
On to him as a player. If Kane is out do I trust him to lead our line? I can't say I do. He is pretty small and not physically imposing. Does the ball stick to him, can he take it to the bettter CBs? Playing on the counter may with his pace but we don't play like that.
Do I see him being better than any of our wide options? Chadli scored a similar amount of PL goals than him from open play last season. Eriksen too. Is he going to be more direct and dynamic than Son? A more effective destructive 10 than Dembele? Then there is Lamela, Townsend, Pritchard.....
To me it is a huuuuuge waste of money
posted on 6/12/15
It's not a huge waste of money if he's the player Poch wants
posted on 6/12/15
Ferguson wanted Veron - it doesn't mean he wasn't a huge waste of money
posted on 6/12/15
Poch bought Fazio.....he is good but not infallible
posted on 6/12/15
Berahino doesn't score many, and he doesn't assist many either. There's a reason for that - he's bang average.
"He plays for West Brom..... He's on the bench a lot....."
The last time I checked, he wasn't competing with Messi, Suarez and Neymar for a place in the team, or Lewandowski, Muller, Robben, Gotze and Douglas Costa.
So if he can't force his way into the starting lineup ahead of Anichebe, Ideye, Long, Lambert, Sessegnon and Rondon, that doesn't say an awful lot about him.
posted on 6/12/15
HRH,
I accept the arguments that Ferguson wanted Veron, Poch bought Fazio etc so we cant use any of that as arguments in this debate.
I just dont see how you can bring Berahino's stats into the debate (even though we have both previously claimed we are not necessarily stats men), but then want to muck around with them by taking goals away for pens - you either use the stats and include the figures you've got - or dont use that as your argument at all.
Last season Kane scored some heavily deflected goals and pens, but when we sperak of his goal record we dont (and shouldnt) be including only his clean hit goals that required skill and individuality - in my opinion all his goals count because he scored them - and the same goes for Berahino - and his stats are quite reasonable - not brilliant - but certainly good enough to be valued at £20m+.
posted on 6/12/15
I'm not a stat man, but we need a goalscorer - and this lad just doesn't score that many PL goals no matter what way you cut it.
20 odd in 80 appearances, including penalties. Without them it's even worse.
posted on 6/12/15
Where do you see him fitting in, seriously?
posted on 6/12/15
The problem is HRH, we are never going to attract the league's best scorer for £20m, so we have to take a small gamble somewhere - and why not go for someone who is proven in this league to a degree and has proven chemistry with our current main striker? It just seems a no brainer to me but it looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
posted on 6/12/15
I v much doubt Levy will suddenly increase his bid from whatever we offered during the summer to £20m. The player can't get a game, has a confirmed attitude / professionalism problem and has little over a year remaining on his contract.
IF poch really wants him and thinks he can turn his fortunes around i would begrudgingly welcome him for no more than £12 - £15m this January.
posted on 6/12/15
Luka,
I think the price was over £20m, more like £25m, but regardless of what it was, i cant see WBA lowering that figure in the January TW. This is one of the hardest windows to get clubs to let players go.
posted on 6/12/15
What sort of chemistry do they have though? What is it based on? England were a shambles at the actual U21 tournament. Is this just qualifiers? Did England play them together in a 442? Because we won't.
Not knocking but this keeps being brought up as a bonus, yet I'd like a bit more detail.
The leagues best goalscorer is Jamie Vardy, and I'd guess we'd be able to buy him for that same 20-25m (not that I'd want us to). Maybe he is a one season wonder, but he's scored as many league goals as Berahino did last season (his best ever season) already.
Austin outscored him last season and is available at a third of the price.
posted on 6/12/15
HRH,
Who wouldn't take Vardy? He may be 27 or whatever he is, but i'd imagine clubs like Cheslea, United, Arsenal, City etc would be willing to pay well over £30m for him right now.
Berahino is realistic - Vardy is not.
posted on 6/12/15
To me we need someone to take the load off of Kane. Come the new year we may get in that cycle of playing virtually every weekened/midweek, and he will struggle to perform in so many games (assuming he stays fit and is actually available for every one).
That means getting another player in who can lead the line well and play on his own up top (as we virtually always line up). Hold the ball up, be physically strong enough to fend off physically imposing PL centre backs, be good both on the deck and in the air and actually score a good return of goals to boot.
Berahino hardly ticks any of those boxes. No more than Son or Chadli do really. For 20-25m - which by the way is an extremely big sum of money - I'd expect a but more.
posted on 6/12/15
Vardy is 29 next month
posted on 6/12/15
Of course he is realistic.....this is Jamie Vardy who plays for Leicester, not Karim Benzema. He scored 5 goals last season, it's not like he's been regularly banging them in for several years at this level.
You see Arsenal paying 30m for a 29yr old player with one top flight season under his belt?
posted on 6/12/15
^one GOOD top flight season.
I still see nothing forthcoming about where he would fit in to our squad, where he could play, what he'd offer that we don't already have, and this relationship with Kane
posted on 6/12/15
You see Arsenal paying 30m for a 29yr old player with one top flight season under his belt?
==================
With their injury list and league position - yes i can.
Do you honestly think we could attract Vardy, to ask if he minds sitting on the bench until a time Kane may need a rest, in a season where he is on fire, and the Euros are just around the corner? No chance.
We are not going to get the league's best strikers in the January TW - and/or for less than £25m. This is another reason why Berahino is a reasonable and realistic choice.
posted on 6/12/15
So why pay 20-25m for an average one, when plenty of them are available for a fraction of that
posted on 6/12/15
He's average to you - but that isn't the general concensus - including Poch's. I'm not saying Poch is always right - or even that he will be here - but i believe £20-£25m is about right for this player at this moment in time. I honestly think he could be the missing piece in the puzzle.
posted on 6/12/15
If we are buying to sit on the bench until Kane needs a rest (your words re Vardy not being realistic) what relevance is Kane's playing relationship with Berahino?
Still not seen any convincing argument to buy a 25m substitute.
Still not seen a convincing argument as to where he'd fit in if he was playing in addition to Kane, and what he'd bring to one of the other attacking positions that we don't already have.
posted on 6/12/15
Where does he fit in then? What part of the puzzle is he?
It may sound like I'm going on but what is he bringing to our side that we don't already have?
In a generally defence-first side such as West Brom, where the pressure is low and they can often counter attack, will his performances up top for them translate in to a side which is generally front-foot and possession based, where teams set up to frustrate?
posted on 6/12/15
It may sound like I'm going on but what is he bringing to our side that we don't already have?
================
You're only going on as much as me - and this is what forums are for so go for it....
One thing he will bring to the table, and you speak about Vardy, but pace is something Kane is definitely missing and Berahino certainly has that.
Do you think Poch is wrong to consider him or are you just put off by the value?
posted on 6/12/15
I didn't say I wanted Vardy as you can see. I only mentioned him because you said about us not being able to buy the best goalscorer, which he is this sseason
"The leagues best goalscorer is Jamie Vardy, and I'd guess we'd be able to buy him for that same 20-25m (not that I'd want us to). Maybe he is a one season wonder, but he's scored as many league goals as Berahino did last season (his best ever season) already".
I don't think we lack pace in the forward positions at all - Son, Townsend and N'Jie are quick. It's up to Poch to use them wisely.
I think Poch is wrong to consider him, yes. In an era of us spending wisely with a new stadium build to contend with, I think he is a massive waste of funds.
I'd rather us buy a proper 9 for right now - such as Austin - and a younger player for the future that we can loan out such as Embolo or Dembele (who we appear to also be interested in, although I can't say I've seen them) who will probably cost less combined than Berahino would
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