We are a team for now, it isn't like lvg has invested heavily in youngsters... He just doesn't have what it takes
Louis created this problem. He left the squad fairly thin on options, and the options we have were also a bit inexperienced, especially the main attacking options.
He dug his own hole here. Sure some of the players haven't delivered, but he has spent 300mill, and we need to spend that again to compete on all fronts. Younger players thrown into deep end, when they should have been integrated a bit slower
It's a shame you were legally obliged to sell all of those players, otherwise LvG would have no excuses
Hi Louis and Ed - Thanks for taking the time to create an account and post an article on ja606 - Great to have you both here
LVG has failed to address his forward options. In fact!.. he got rid of a number of forwards that could have been very useful right about now.
Many of the players have been frankly awful but the buck stops at the manager i'm afraid. Especially with his experience.
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 2 minutes ago
We are a team for now, it isn't like lvg has invested heavily in youngsters... He just doesn't have what it takes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's bought
Depay, Shaw and Martial and brought it a lot of players from youth. To me that is still investing in youth. How much youth did SAF bring in during his later years?
Martial and Depay could become the new Rooney and Ronaldo. LVG obviously decided this summer that it was his plan to bring in youth to the first team, this is why he let go of so much deadwood.
Martial and Depay could become the new Rooney and Ronaldo
---------------------------
They won't
Every young player becomes good in the future. No bad players were ever young. They were always old because age is something you were born with and not something you accumulate over time.
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is how can they perform if they aren't given a chance to play and develop?
Wanna know why Ronaldo got so good? He was forced into the first team because Solskjaer got injured, SAF originally planned to play Ole on the right. The point is the reason we have a small squad is because LVG wants to fill in the gaps with youth rather than deadwood like Nani and Rafael who have been given their chance.
If we don't give them a chance they won't succeed.
Just look how many players in LVGs first team squad are young and have made appearances in the league this season..
Depay
Lingaard
McNair
Martial
Januzaj*
Shaw
Varela
Pereira
Borthwick Jackson
Wilson* **
Not being harsh but how many of them are actually any good?
They might be good youngsters but most of them probably won't make it in our team, we are after top level players
comment by RD25 (U20655)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is how can they perform if they aren't given a chance to play and develop?
Wanna know why Ronaldo got so good? He was forced into the first team because Solskjaer got injured, SAF originally planned to play Ole on the right. The point is the reason we have a small squad is because LVG wants to fill in the gaps with youth rather than deadwood like Nani and Rafael who have been given their chance.
If we don't give them a chance they won't succeed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Ronaldo played well. How have each of them individually played?
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RD25 (U20655)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is how can they perform if they aren't given a chance to play and develop?
Wanna know why Ronaldo got so good? He was forced into the first team because Solskjaer got injured, SAF originally planned to play Ole on the right. The point is the reason we have a small squad is because LVG wants to fill in the gaps with youth rather than deadwood like Nani and Rafael who have been given their chance.
If we don't give them a chance they won't succeed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Ronaldo played well. How have each of them individually played?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Um Ronaldo was extremely inconsistent, he was frustrating because he'd often make the wrong decisions and would do too many tricks.
I don't care about the Moyes part. I just care why can't we score from bucketload of chances while other teams are so efficient.
Depay
Lingaard
McNair
Martial
Januzaj
Shaw
Varela
Pereira
Borthwick Jackson
Wilson
Take out Martial, Shaw and Memphis who we spent big on and I think most top sides would have a list of youth players on their books as good if not better than that.
I think it's being overplayed that LVG is doing a great job for the future. Shaw was identified before LVG joined, Memphis is currently struggling and Januzaj and Wilson have regressed since LVG joined.
The only youth that have improved under LVG and played more than a couple games are Lingaard who is 23 next week and who I don't rate than highly and McNair who again I don't think is anything special.
Pereira looks a talent but he's the kind of player all top sides have and are still a long way from proving they have a career at the top.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
Depay
Lingaard
McNair
Martial
Januzaj
Shaw
Varela
Pereira
Borthwick Jackson
Wilson
Take out Martial, Shaw and Memphis who we spent big on and I think most top sides would have a list of youth players on their books as good if not better than that.
I think it's being overplayed that LVG is doing a great job for the future. Shaw was identified before LVG joined, Memphis is currently struggling and Januzaj and Wilson have regressed since LVG joined.
The only youth that have improved under LVG and played more than a couple games are Lingaard who is 23 next week and who I don't rate than highly and McNair who again I don't think is anything special.
Pereira looks a talent but he's the kind of player all top sides have and are still a long way from proving they have a career at the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many top sides actually play their youth players though?
Do we play them because we think they're good enough or because we have no other choice?
Who from our youth set up (not bought) have we played fairly regularly and you think has a good chance to be a first teamer for us in the future?
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 21 minutes ago
Do we play them because we think they're good enough or because we have no other choice?
Who from our youth set up (not bought) have we played fairly regularly and you think has a good chance to be a first teamer for us in the future?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're missing the point, how the hell are you meant to know after a few games they've played? If you don't give them games how are they going to develop into first teamers?
The youth set up is obviously by design, everywhere the guy has been he's installed a proper youth set up and relied on youth players. The guy gave Iniesta and Xavi their debuts -__-
I'm not missing the point. If the quality isn't there then it's irrelevant whether he is giving them games or not.
We have no one who is of the talent of Xavi or Iniesta, that's a fact.
When Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Neville etc came through the ranks it was clear to see their talents, that combined with a bit of luck got them to where they got.
However much you play Lingaard or McNair they simply won't reach a high level because they are extremely limited players.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm not missing the point. If the quality isn't there then it's irrelevant whether he is giving them games or not.
We have no one who is of the talent of Xavi or Iniesta, that's a fact.
When Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Neville etc came through the ranks it was clear to see their talents, that combined with a bit of luck got them to where they got.
However much you play Lingaard or McNair they simply won't reach a high level because they are extremely limited players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF are you on about?
Anyone remember that Paul Pogba guy who wasn't given a chance in the first team so went on to become one of the best midfielders in the world with a value of £60 million. He wasn't given a chance by SAF and it was probably up there with SAF's biggest errors.
Ok mr talent scout you've seen Varela play one game and think he's not good enough?
You've seen Jackson on for one game and he's not good enough?
Maybe LVG who watches them every single day might know a little bit more than you? Players simply don't develop unless they're given games in the first team.
Oh and to go back to youth other point that we're giving them a chance because he sold everyone as said by LVG himself, he's not giving them a chance because we have no one else, we have no one else because he wants to give them a chance.
“It is the way I lead this club. I don’t want a big selection because when you have a big selection it doesn’t give any chance to the young players.
“So when there are injuries and illnesses I have to look at the youth allocation with my youth coaches Warren Joyce and Paul McGuinness.
“I can also see myself how they play in the second team or the Under-19s and I have to decide which player. Of course, it is also a matter of the vacancies in the positions. Last time we had Tuanzebe because Phil Jones was ill."
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-van-gaal-reveals-10409615
Yes and everyone single person on the planet could see the talent that Pogba was but because of a combination of him being impatient and Ferguson trusting his old players we lost him.
You honestly think we currently have anyone in our youth set up who has as much potential as Pogba?
I watched Pogba play for the U21s with my own eyes and he was a beast, everyone in the stadium could see he was special.
I agree with a lot of what you have said here I think LVG is doing a great job of setting us up for the long term.
The major disadvantage of that being the managers who do that kind of work often don't get credit for it as it takes years for the results to come through.
Tunnicliffe was better than Pogba a lot of the time in the reserves.
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 27 minutes ago
Yes and everyone single person on the planet could see the talent that Pogba was but because of a combination of him being impatient and Ferguson trusting his old players we lost him.
You honestly think we currently have anyone in our youth set up who has as much potential as Pogba?
I watched Pogba play for the U21s with my own eyes and he was a beast, everyone in the stadium could see he was special.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Different players develop at different times. If they're not given the chance to develop we'll never know, this is why its all about being given a chance. Pogba was an example but another one is say Danny Drinkwater, who was on our books once and is now doing very well for the team top of the league.
Chelsea are a great example of having good youth players and letting them go because they don't give chances and have a policy of just buying talent.
Lukaku
Sturridge
Matic
De Bruyne
All these players developed into good players away from the club. Rossi was another one for us that got away for us. I don't think every player LVG calls up will make the grade but if he doesn't call them up and give them a chance then we'll end up losing out.
Of course you might know more than me if you've watched every under 21 game and can spot how talented all these guys are.
Sign in if you want to comment
We're a Team for the Future Not For Now
Page 1 of 2
posted on 9/12/15
We are a team for now, it isn't like lvg has invested heavily in youngsters... He just doesn't have what it takes
posted on 9/12/15
Louis created this problem. He left the squad fairly thin on options, and the options we have were also a bit inexperienced, especially the main attacking options.
He dug his own hole here. Sure some of the players haven't delivered, but he has spent 300mill, and we need to spend that again to compete on all fronts. Younger players thrown into deep end, when they should have been integrated a bit slower
posted on 9/12/15
It's a shame you were legally obliged to sell all of those players, otherwise LvG would have no excuses
posted on 9/12/15
Hi Louis and Ed - Thanks for taking the time to create an account and post an article on ja606 - Great to have you both here
posted on 9/12/15
LVG has failed to address his forward options. In fact!.. he got rid of a number of forwards that could have been very useful right about now.
Many of the players have been frankly awful but the buck stops at the manager i'm afraid. Especially with his experience.
posted on 9/12/15
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
posted on 9/12/15
comment by Ron (U1646)
posted 2 minutes ago
We are a team for now, it isn't like lvg has invested heavily in youngsters... He just doesn't have what it takes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's bought
Depay, Shaw and Martial and brought it a lot of players from youth. To me that is still investing in youth. How much youth did SAF bring in during his later years?
Martial and Depay could become the new Rooney and Ronaldo. LVG obviously decided this summer that it was his plan to bring in youth to the first team, this is why he let go of so much deadwood.
posted on 9/12/15
Martial and Depay could become the new Rooney and Ronaldo
---------------------------
They won't
posted on 9/12/15
Every young player becomes good in the future. No bad players were ever young. They were always old because age is something you were born with and not something you accumulate over time.
posted on 9/12/15
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is how can they perform if they aren't given a chance to play and develop?
Wanna know why Ronaldo got so good? He was forced into the first team because Solskjaer got injured, SAF originally planned to play Ole on the right. The point is the reason we have a small squad is because LVG wants to fill in the gaps with youth rather than deadwood like Nani and Rafael who have been given their chance.
If we don't give them a chance they won't succeed.
posted on 9/12/15
Just look how many players in LVGs first team squad are young and have made appearances in the league this season..
Depay
Lingaard
McNair
Martial
Januzaj*
Shaw
Varela
Pereira
Borthwick Jackson
Wilson* **
Not being harsh but how many of them are actually any good?
posted on 9/12/15
They might be good youngsters but most of them probably won't make it in our team, we are after top level players
posted on 9/12/15
comment by RD25 (U20655)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is how can they perform if they aren't given a chance to play and develop?
Wanna know why Ronaldo got so good? He was forced into the first team because Solskjaer got injured, SAF originally planned to play Ole on the right. The point is the reason we have a small squad is because LVG wants to fill in the gaps with youth rather than deadwood like Nani and Rafael who have been given their chance.
If we don't give them a chance they won't succeed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Ronaldo played well. How have each of them individually played?
posted on 9/12/15
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by RD25 (U20655)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Lubo - Pioneer of the Steve Evans fitness reg... (U14008)
posted 1 minute ago
Of those young players how many did LVG sign? How many are actually performing? How many are being played because you have no other options?
More important questions to ask yourself
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is how can they perform if they aren't given a chance to play and develop?
Wanna know why Ronaldo got so good? He was forced into the first team because Solskjaer got injured, SAF originally planned to play Ole on the right. The point is the reason we have a small squad is because LVG wants to fill in the gaps with youth rather than deadwood like Nani and Rafael who have been given their chance.
If we don't give them a chance they won't succeed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And Ronaldo played well. How have each of them individually played?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Um Ronaldo was extremely inconsistent, he was frustrating because he'd often make the wrong decisions and would do too many tricks.
posted on 9/12/15
I don't care about the Moyes part. I just care why can't we score from bucketload of chances while other teams are so efficient.
posted on 9/12/15
Depay
Lingaard
McNair
Martial
Januzaj
Shaw
Varela
Pereira
Borthwick Jackson
Wilson
Take out Martial, Shaw and Memphis who we spent big on and I think most top sides would have a list of youth players on their books as good if not better than that.
I think it's being overplayed that LVG is doing a great job for the future. Shaw was identified before LVG joined, Memphis is currently struggling and Januzaj and Wilson have regressed since LVG joined.
The only youth that have improved under LVG and played more than a couple games are Lingaard who is 23 next week and who I don't rate than highly and McNair who again I don't think is anything special.
Pereira looks a talent but he's the kind of player all top sides have and are still a long way from proving they have a career at the top.
posted on 9/12/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 5 minutes ago
Depay
Lingaard
McNair
Martial
Januzaj
Shaw
Varela
Pereira
Borthwick Jackson
Wilson
Take out Martial, Shaw and Memphis who we spent big on and I think most top sides would have a list of youth players on their books as good if not better than that.
I think it's being overplayed that LVG is doing a great job for the future. Shaw was identified before LVG joined, Memphis is currently struggling and Januzaj and Wilson have regressed since LVG joined.
The only youth that have improved under LVG and played more than a couple games are Lingaard who is 23 next week and who I don't rate than highly and McNair who again I don't think is anything special.
Pereira looks a talent but he's the kind of player all top sides have and are still a long way from proving they have a career at the top.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many top sides actually play their youth players though?
posted on 9/12/15
Do we play them because we think they're good enough or because we have no other choice?
Who from our youth set up (not bought) have we played fairly regularly and you think has a good chance to be a first teamer for us in the future?
posted on 9/12/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 21 minutes ago
Do we play them because we think they're good enough or because we have no other choice?
Who from our youth set up (not bought) have we played fairly regularly and you think has a good chance to be a first teamer for us in the future?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're missing the point, how the hell are you meant to know after a few games they've played? If you don't give them games how are they going to develop into first teamers?
The youth set up is obviously by design, everywhere the guy has been he's installed a proper youth set up and relied on youth players. The guy gave Iniesta and Xavi their debuts -__-
posted on 9/12/15
I'm not missing the point. If the quality isn't there then it's irrelevant whether he is giving them games or not.
We have no one who is of the talent of Xavi or Iniesta, that's a fact.
When Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Neville etc came through the ranks it was clear to see their talents, that combined with a bit of luck got them to where they got.
However much you play Lingaard or McNair they simply won't reach a high level because they are extremely limited players.
posted on 9/12/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
I'm not missing the point. If the quality isn't there then it's irrelevant whether he is giving them games or not.
We have no one who is of the talent of Xavi or Iniesta, that's a fact.
When Giggs, Beckham, Scholes, Neville etc came through the ranks it was clear to see their talents, that combined with a bit of luck got them to where they got.
However much you play Lingaard or McNair they simply won't reach a high level because they are extremely limited players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WTF are you on about?
Anyone remember that Paul Pogba guy who wasn't given a chance in the first team so went on to become one of the best midfielders in the world with a value of £60 million. He wasn't given a chance by SAF and it was probably up there with SAF's biggest errors.
Ok mr talent scout you've seen Varela play one game and think he's not good enough?
You've seen Jackson on for one game and he's not good enough?
Maybe LVG who watches them every single day might know a little bit more than you? Players simply don't develop unless they're given games in the first team.
Oh and to go back to youth other point that we're giving them a chance because he sold everyone as said by LVG himself, he's not giving them a chance because we have no one else, we have no one else because he wants to give them a chance.
“It is the way I lead this club. I don’t want a big selection because when you have a big selection it doesn’t give any chance to the young players.
“So when there are injuries and illnesses I have to look at the youth allocation with my youth coaches Warren Joyce and Paul McGuinness.
“I can also see myself how they play in the second team or the Under-19s and I have to decide which player. Of course, it is also a matter of the vacancies in the positions. Last time we had Tuanzebe because Phil Jones was ill."
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-van-gaal-reveals-10409615
posted on 9/12/15
Yes and everyone single person on the planet could see the talent that Pogba was but because of a combination of him being impatient and Ferguson trusting his old players we lost him.
You honestly think we currently have anyone in our youth set up who has as much potential as Pogba?
I watched Pogba play for the U21s with my own eyes and he was a beast, everyone in the stadium could see he was special.
posted on 9/12/15
I agree with a lot of what you have said here I think LVG is doing a great job of setting us up for the long term.
The major disadvantage of that being the managers who do that kind of work often don't get credit for it as it takes years for the results to come through.
posted on 9/12/15
Tunnicliffe was better than Pogba a lot of the time in the reserves.
posted on 9/12/15
comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 27 minutes ago
Yes and everyone single person on the planet could see the talent that Pogba was but because of a combination of him being impatient and Ferguson trusting his old players we lost him.
You honestly think we currently have anyone in our youth set up who has as much potential as Pogba?
I watched Pogba play for the U21s with my own eyes and he was a beast, everyone in the stadium could see he was special.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Different players develop at different times. If they're not given the chance to develop we'll never know, this is why its all about being given a chance. Pogba was an example but another one is say Danny Drinkwater, who was on our books once and is now doing very well for the team top of the league.
Chelsea are a great example of having good youth players and letting them go because they don't give chances and have a policy of just buying talent.
Lukaku
Sturridge
Matic
De Bruyne
All these players developed into good players away from the club. Rossi was another one for us that got away for us. I don't think every player LVG calls up will make the grade but if he doesn't call them up and give them a chance then we'll end up losing out.
Of course you might know more than me if you've watched every under 21 game and can spot how talented all these guys are.
Page 1 of 2