comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 3 days, 4 hours ago
comment by TBag (U11806)
posted 44 minutes ago
I have no problem with women in leading roles, it's just when it's done in a way that is obviously pandering and the characters are rubbish and you get called a sexist for not liking them.
Like the Avengers moment was cheesy, but was fleeting so I didn't mind it. The Boys does an awesome job of just having strong women in it and it not being a big deal that they're women, they're just a character that happens to be a woman. Hell, even Leia in the OT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m probably being unfair here TBag and I’m sure you don’t mean it like this but your comment kinda reads to me like - you don’t have a problem with female leads as long as they’re the type of leads you think they should be.
Personally I find the amount of discussion within SW fans about female roles really uncomfortable. Yeah SW was based on male characters but that was the 70’s. I knows the sequels were a car crash and the character of Rey was front and centre to that but Disney should be pushing female leads. Brings balance to the force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's fair enough to question and I agree that more women in leading roles is better, but I feel like they're sometimes forcing things onto characters even when they don't make any sense.
I don't have sort of notion about what sort of characters should be women. Some of my favourite SW characters are women.
comment by TBag (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 3 days, 4 hours ago
comment by TBag (U11806)
posted 44 minutes ago
I have no problem with women in leading roles, it's just when it's done in a way that is obviously pandering and the characters are rubbish and you get called a sexist for not liking them.
Like the Avengers moment was cheesy, but was fleeting so I didn't mind it. The Boys does an awesome job of just having strong women in it and it not being a big deal that they're women, they're just a character that happens to be a woman. Hell, even Leia in the OT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m probably being unfair here TBag and I’m sure you don’t mean it like this but your comment kinda reads to me like - you don’t have a problem with female leads as long as they’re the type of leads you think they should be.
Personally I find the amount of discussion within SW fans about female roles really uncomfortable. Yeah SW was based on male characters but that was the 70’s. I knows the sequels were a car crash and the character of Rey was front and centre to that but Disney should be pushing female leads. Brings balance to the force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All Disney have been doing is pushing female leads and it hasn't worked because ultimately, you should focus on well written and authentic characters, regardless of if they are male or female.
Rey,Rose, Reva, Jin, all female but poorly written characters.
100% agree.
Man, when I was a kid, the only thing the girls weren’t allowed to play was Football. We didn’t do mix team just for fun, cos we were serious about our football.
But running around the playground or messing with my cousins, there was nothing said about, ‘Star Wars is all Male’ same like, saying Star Wars is just white. Nobody said anything like that. I remember There were girls even pretending to be Vader.
So when Kath Kennedy starts going on about representation, I’m like, sure that’s great, Star Wars is for everyone, but it felt like she was criticising. And she was.
And well, it’s as Guv has said, and I think she’s done more harm than good to not think it through.
Story story story. Comes first before everything.
But what we get feels forced.
The Holdo character by Laura Dern. A waste of a character. Not needed, General Ackbar should’ve played that role. Made more sense, and would’ve had more impact.
But we get that character, who happens to be a woman, and now look. Was it worth the hassle?
But oh no, double down and attack the fans.
Sure, there’s always gonna be dumbasses out there, but to tar the fanbase with that brush is an insult.
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
It should also be mentioned that Qui gon isn't as infallible as most think. Let's not forget that Dooku was his padawan and he then later became a sith lord.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought Dooku was Yoda's padawan?
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
It should also be mentioned that Qui gon isn't as infallible as most think. Let's not forget that Dooku was his padawan and he then later became a sith lord.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought Dooku was Yoda's padawan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was
No he meant Dooku trained Qui Gon when he was a Jedi..
Did you know Jango had a daughter?
She’s playing at Wimbledon today..Jana Fett.
What a cool name.
I want her to win the tournament now, if Emma doesn’t.
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 1 minute ago
100% agree.
Man, when I was a kid, the only thing the girls weren’t allowed to play was Football. We didn’t do mix team just for fun, cos we were serious about our football.
But running around the playground or messing with my cousins, there was nothing said about, ‘Star Wars is all Male’ same like, saying Star Wars is just white. Nobody said anything like that. I remember There were girls even pretending to be Vader.
So when Kath Kennedy starts going on about representation, I’m like, sure that’s great, Star Wars is for everyone, but it felt like she was criticising. And she was.
And well, it’s as Guv has said, and I think she’s done more harm than good to not think it through.
Story story story. Comes first before everything.
But what we get feels forced.
The Holdo character by Laura Dern. A waste of a character. Not needed, General Ackbar should’ve played that role. Made more sense, and would’ve had more impact.
But we get that character, who happens to be a woman, and now look. Was it worth the hassle?
But oh no, double down and attack the fans.
Sure, there’s always gonna be dumbasses out there, but to tar the fanbase with that brush is an insult.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not supposed to be an insult String. I'm within that fan-base so any criticisms or challenge would include me.
But I do think it's ok to challenge the criticisms of females leads being manoeuvred in as well. At various points in this thread I've read:
Kennedy is killing SW and should lose her job;
Deborah Chow can't direct action;
Endless criticisms of Reva;
Irritation that Leia was written into the story;
Favreau and Filoni are the future and should be given full control.
Now any one of those opinions in isolation is perfectly reasonable but as a grouping it does seem like a desire for a bit of a boys club.
I just think the female characters attract significantly more criticisms than poor male characters. I take Guv's point completely that poor writing is ultimately responsible but there's been poor writing for male characters also.
I've said this before on the thread and I know most of you don't agree but I think if you put a white male in the Reva role then it attracts significantly less criticism. It would still be critiqued because it's not a great role, but not to the same extent.
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 1 minute ago
100% agree.
Man, when I was a kid, the only thing the girls weren’t allowed to play was Football. We didn’t do mix team just for fun, cos we were serious about our football.
But running around the playground or messing with my cousins, there was nothing said about, ‘Star Wars is all Male’ same like, saying Star Wars is just white. Nobody said anything like that. I remember There were girls even pretending to be Vader.
So when Kath Kennedy starts going on about representation, I’m like, sure that’s great, Star Wars is for everyone, but it felt like she was criticising. And she was.
And well, it’s as Guv has said, and I think she’s done more harm than good to not think it through.
Story story story. Comes first before everything.
But what we get feels forced.
The Holdo character by Laura Dern. A waste of a character. Not needed, General Ackbar should’ve played that role. Made more sense, and would’ve had more impact.
But we get that character, who happens to be a woman, and now look. Was it worth the hassle?
But oh no, double down and attack the fans.
Sure, there’s always gonna be dumbasses out there, but to tar the fanbase with that brush is an insult.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not supposed to be an insult String. I'm within that fan-base so any criticisms or challenge would include me.
But I do think it's ok to challenge the criticisms of females leads being manoeuvred in as well. At various points in this thread I've read:
Kennedy is killing SW and should lose her job;
Deborah Chow can't direct action;
Endless criticisms of Reva;
Irritation that Leia was written into the story;
Favreau and Filoni are the future and should be given full control.
Now any one of those opinions in isolation is perfectly reasonable but as a grouping it does seem like a desire for a bit of a boys club.
I just think the female characters attract significantly more criticisms than poor male characters. I take Guv's point completely that poor writing is ultimately responsible but there's been poor writing for male characters also.
I've said this before on the thread and I know most of you don't agree but I think if you put a white male in the Reva role then it attracts significantly less criticism. It would still be critiqued because it's not a great role, but not to the same extent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gina Carano was superb, liked her character and she was damn better on screen than the chick playing Reva granted her role wasnt trying to be as diverse or complicated
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 3 minutes ago
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR has been a disgrace so far with his episodes. That vespa gang is genuinely up there with one of SW worst ever creations
There were plenty of strong females in the original star wars?!
Both leaders of the Rebel alliance we have seen were female, Leia herself was a main character and didn't exist for the purpose of relationship with male characters. She was a badass in her own right..
Droids are gender neutral, a large part of the cast of the originals are stormtrooper soldiers, it's not that unthinkable that they wouldn't allow female combatants within the standing army, we dont in the real world..
Rey though was a travesty of a character, and I agree was very forced, they just wanted a female main character, which even the original post episode 6 canon would have given.. had they followed existing storytelling.
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 13 minutes ago
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, each opinion is isolation is completely reasonable. Collectively though, it's uncomfortable imo. I think some people (not pointing any fingers to anyone here) do want the boys club.
He did do the Ep, when Boba Fett returned in Mando.
And Chow also did good Eps of Mando.
So, my question then becomes, how much of it is down to good writing and producing from Favreau/Filoni.
It can’t be a coincidence.
Look at everything KK has touched, it’s mediocre.
I understand the creative process, but man, the amount of people she has fired off various projects is incredible.
Even Gareth Edwards even got fired off Rogue One. But he played his part, making sure he didn’t hurt his money or be liable.
Nobody’s heard from the man since….
But the ‘Boys Club’ tag, I’ve never seen it that way.
That goes against everything that Star Wars stands for, imo.
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 29 seconds ago
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, badly written characters.
We’re all for expanding the world, the lore. Give us characters to really be invested in.
Reva’s story is a really interesting story right. Her journey. Sure, wouldn’t mind seeing that being told.
How it got to be part of the main story of Kenobi just threw people. They make say an Inquisitor show, and I’m sure people will be up for it.
It shouldn’t have been a major storyline. And again, it doesn’t make sense.
How can Obi-Wan say, she’s turned good now, when she’s killed how many? He walked past the Tomb of a younglin ffs!!
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 29 seconds ago
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, badly written characters.
We’re all for expanding the world, the lore. Give us characters to really be invested in.
Reva’s story is a really interesting story right. Her journey. Sure, wouldn’t mind seeing that being told.
How it got to be part of the main story of Kenobi just threw people. They make say an Inquisitor show, and I’m sure people will be up for it.
It shouldn’t have been a major storyline. And again, it doesn’t make sense.
How can Obi-Wan say, she’s turned good now, when she’s killed how many? He walked past the Tomb of a younglin ffs!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those weren't all her kills though, it was the Inquisitors base, there could have been any number of people responsible for the dead.
That whole storyline was stupid. The whole series had a largely stupid storyline tbh.
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 29 seconds ago
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, badly written characters.
We’re all for expanding the world, the lore. Give us characters to really be invested in.
Reva’s story is a really interesting story right. Her journey. Sure, wouldn’t mind seeing that being told.
How it got to be part of the main story of Kenobi just threw people. They make say an Inquisitor show, and I’m sure people will be up for it.
It shouldn’t have been a major storyline. And again, it doesn’t make sense.
How can Obi-Wan say, she’s turned good now, when she’s killed how many? He walked past the Tomb of a younglin ffs!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those weren't all her kills though, it was the Inquisitors base, there could have been any number of people responsible for the dead.
That whole storyline was stupid. The whole series had a largely stupid storyline tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
slightly off tangent but I would fricking love a spin off from the empires side. A different POV altogether an almost empathetic POV of the empire. Have them quite clearly the baddies still but relateable still showing their motives for fighting
comment by MK (U9129)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
It should also be mentioned that Qui gon isn't as infallible as most think. Let's not forget that Dooku was his padawan and he then later became a sith lord.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought Dooku was Yoda's padawan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I got them the wrong way.
Yoda trained Dooku.
Dooku Trained Qui Gon.
Reva is a poorly written character but I also think her acting was under par, which just exacerbates the issue.
Padme had some atrocious dialogue but Natalie Portman is a good enough actress to compensate for this.
All good to great female characters in Star Wars:
Leia
Ahsoka (both live action and animated)
Bo Katan (both live action and animated)
Satine (Animated)
Asajj Ventress (Animated)
Hera & Sabine (Animated)
Cara Dune
Mara Jade (Books)
Fennec
I think whether male or female, characters need to be written well and the individuals depicting them should have the necessary acting skills.
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 2 minutes ago
All good to great female characters in Star Wars:
Leia
Ahsoka (both live action and animated)
Bo Katan (both live action and animated)
Satine (Animated)
Asajj Ventress (Animated)
Hera & Sabine (Animated)
Cara Dune
Mara Jade (Books)
Fennec
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Fennec ..... thats the answer you need right there.
In a rotten series, she was by a mile a stand out in terms of character and portrayal of her. She was praised for helping pick up TBOB, they seem to see over this when saying we are harsh with the REVA treatment
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 3 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 13 minutes ago
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, each opinion is isolation is completely reasonable. Collectively though, it's uncomfortable imo. I think some people (not pointing any fingers to anyone here) do want the boys club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure there are a few fans that just don't want females in lead roles but I think it's such a miniscule percentage that it doesn't even matter.
If you make good stories with characters that have depth and have been well written, fans will get behind them.
Filoni created an animated female jedi padawan who is widely regarded amongst the fan base as being one of the best characters in SW. Lucas done the same with Princess Leia.
If you told me that Filoni and Favreau were doing a live action 6 episode show on Asajj Ventress, I would be very excited.
Sign in if you want to comment
A Galaxy Far Far Away......
Page 244 of 574
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posted on 28/6/22
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 3 days, 4 hours ago
comment by TBag (U11806)
posted 44 minutes ago
I have no problem with women in leading roles, it's just when it's done in a way that is obviously pandering and the characters are rubbish and you get called a sexist for not liking them.
Like the Avengers moment was cheesy, but was fleeting so I didn't mind it. The Boys does an awesome job of just having strong women in it and it not being a big deal that they're women, they're just a character that happens to be a woman. Hell, even Leia in the OT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m probably being unfair here TBag and I’m sure you don’t mean it like this but your comment kinda reads to me like - you don’t have a problem with female leads as long as they’re the type of leads you think they should be.
Personally I find the amount of discussion within SW fans about female roles really uncomfortable. Yeah SW was based on male characters but that was the 70’s. I knows the sequels were a car crash and the character of Rey was front and centre to that but Disney should be pushing female leads. Brings balance to the force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's fair enough to question and I agree that more women in leading roles is better, but I feel like they're sometimes forcing things onto characters even when they don't make any sense.
I don't have sort of notion about what sort of characters should be women. Some of my favourite SW characters are women.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by TBag (U11806)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 3 days, 4 hours ago
comment by TBag (U11806)
posted 44 minutes ago
I have no problem with women in leading roles, it's just when it's done in a way that is obviously pandering and the characters are rubbish and you get called a sexist for not liking them.
Like the Avengers moment was cheesy, but was fleeting so I didn't mind it. The Boys does an awesome job of just having strong women in it and it not being a big deal that they're women, they're just a character that happens to be a woman. Hell, even Leia in the OT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m probably being unfair here TBag and I’m sure you don’t mean it like this but your comment kinda reads to me like - you don’t have a problem with female leads as long as they’re the type of leads you think they should be.
Personally I find the amount of discussion within SW fans about female roles really uncomfortable. Yeah SW was based on male characters but that was the 70’s. I knows the sequels were a car crash and the character of Rey was front and centre to that but Disney should be pushing female leads. Brings balance to the force
----------------------------------------------------------------------
All Disney have been doing is pushing female leads and it hasn't worked because ultimately, you should focus on well written and authentic characters, regardless of if they are male or female.
Rey,Rose, Reva, Jin, all female but poorly written characters.
posted on 28/6/22
100% agree.
Man, when I was a kid, the only thing the girls weren’t allowed to play was Football. We didn’t do mix team just for fun, cos we were serious about our football.
But running around the playground or messing with my cousins, there was nothing said about, ‘Star Wars is all Male’ same like, saying Star Wars is just white. Nobody said anything like that. I remember There were girls even pretending to be Vader.
So when Kath Kennedy starts going on about representation, I’m like, sure that’s great, Star Wars is for everyone, but it felt like she was criticising. And she was.
And well, it’s as Guv has said, and I think she’s done more harm than good to not think it through.
Story story story. Comes first before everything.
But what we get feels forced.
The Holdo character by Laura Dern. A waste of a character. Not needed, General Ackbar should’ve played that role. Made more sense, and would’ve had more impact.
But we get that character, who happens to be a woman, and now look. Was it worth the hassle?
But oh no, double down and attack the fans.
Sure, there’s always gonna be dumbasses out there, but to tar the fanbase with that brush is an insult.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
It should also be mentioned that Qui gon isn't as infallible as most think. Let's not forget that Dooku was his padawan and he then later became a sith lord.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought Dooku was Yoda's padawan?
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
It should also be mentioned that Qui gon isn't as infallible as most think. Let's not forget that Dooku was his padawan and he then later became a sith lord.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought Dooku was Yoda's padawan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was
posted on 28/6/22
No he meant Dooku trained Qui Gon when he was a Jedi..
posted on 28/6/22
Did you know Jango had a daughter?
She’s playing at Wimbledon today..Jana Fett.
What a cool name.
I want her to win the tournament now, if Emma doesn’t.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 1 minute ago
100% agree.
Man, when I was a kid, the only thing the girls weren’t allowed to play was Football. We didn’t do mix team just for fun, cos we were serious about our football.
But running around the playground or messing with my cousins, there was nothing said about, ‘Star Wars is all Male’ same like, saying Star Wars is just white. Nobody said anything like that. I remember There were girls even pretending to be Vader.
So when Kath Kennedy starts going on about representation, I’m like, sure that’s great, Star Wars is for everyone, but it felt like she was criticising. And she was.
And well, it’s as Guv has said, and I think she’s done more harm than good to not think it through.
Story story story. Comes first before everything.
But what we get feels forced.
The Holdo character by Laura Dern. A waste of a character. Not needed, General Ackbar should’ve played that role. Made more sense, and would’ve had more impact.
But we get that character, who happens to be a woman, and now look. Was it worth the hassle?
But oh no, double down and attack the fans.
Sure, there’s always gonna be dumbasses out there, but to tar the fanbase with that brush is an insult.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not supposed to be an insult String. I'm within that fan-base so any criticisms or challenge would include me.
But I do think it's ok to challenge the criticisms of females leads being manoeuvred in as well. At various points in this thread I've read:
Kennedy is killing SW and should lose her job;
Deborah Chow can't direct action;
Endless criticisms of Reva;
Irritation that Leia was written into the story;
Favreau and Filoni are the future and should be given full control.
Now any one of those opinions in isolation is perfectly reasonable but as a grouping it does seem like a desire for a bit of a boys club.
I just think the female characters attract significantly more criticisms than poor male characters. I take Guv's point completely that poor writing is ultimately responsible but there's been poor writing for male characters also.
I've said this before on the thread and I know most of you don't agree but I think if you put a white male in the Reva role then it attracts significantly less criticism. It would still be critiqued because it's not a great role, but not to the same extent.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 17 seconds ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 1 minute ago
100% agree.
Man, when I was a kid, the only thing the girls weren’t allowed to play was Football. We didn’t do mix team just for fun, cos we were serious about our football.
But running around the playground or messing with my cousins, there was nothing said about, ‘Star Wars is all Male’ same like, saying Star Wars is just white. Nobody said anything like that. I remember There were girls even pretending to be Vader.
So when Kath Kennedy starts going on about representation, I’m like, sure that’s great, Star Wars is for everyone, but it felt like she was criticising. And she was.
And well, it’s as Guv has said, and I think she’s done more harm than good to not think it through.
Story story story. Comes first before everything.
But what we get feels forced.
The Holdo character by Laura Dern. A waste of a character. Not needed, General Ackbar should’ve played that role. Made more sense, and would’ve had more impact.
But we get that character, who happens to be a woman, and now look. Was it worth the hassle?
But oh no, double down and attack the fans.
Sure, there’s always gonna be dumbasses out there, but to tar the fanbase with that brush is an insult.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not supposed to be an insult String. I'm within that fan-base so any criticisms or challenge would include me.
But I do think it's ok to challenge the criticisms of females leads being manoeuvred in as well. At various points in this thread I've read:
Kennedy is killing SW and should lose her job;
Deborah Chow can't direct action;
Endless criticisms of Reva;
Irritation that Leia was written into the story;
Favreau and Filoni are the future and should be given full control.
Now any one of those opinions in isolation is perfectly reasonable but as a grouping it does seem like a desire for a bit of a boys club.
I just think the female characters attract significantly more criticisms than poor male characters. I take Guv's point completely that poor writing is ultimately responsible but there's been poor writing for male characters also.
I've said this before on the thread and I know most of you don't agree but I think if you put a white male in the Reva role then it attracts significantly less criticism. It would still be critiqued because it's not a great role, but not to the same extent.
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Gina Carano was superb, liked her character and she was damn better on screen than the chick playing Reva granted her role wasnt trying to be as diverse or complicated
posted on 28/6/22
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
posted on 28/6/22
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 3 minutes ago
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RR has been a disgrace so far with his episodes. That vespa gang is genuinely up there with one of SW worst ever creations
posted on 28/6/22
There were plenty of strong females in the original star wars?!
Both leaders of the Rebel alliance we have seen were female, Leia herself was a main character and didn't exist for the purpose of relationship with male characters. She was a badass in her own right..
Droids are gender neutral, a large part of the cast of the originals are stormtrooper soldiers, it's not that unthinkable that they wouldn't allow female combatants within the standing army, we dont in the real world..
Rey though was a travesty of a character, and I agree was very forced, they just wanted a female main character, which even the original post episode 6 canon would have given.. had they followed existing storytelling.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 13 minutes ago
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, each opinion is isolation is completely reasonable. Collectively though, it's uncomfortable imo. I think some people (not pointing any fingers to anyone here) do want the boys club.
posted on 28/6/22
He did do the Ep, when Boba Fett returned in Mando.
And Chow also did good Eps of Mando.
So, my question then becomes, how much of it is down to good writing and producing from Favreau/Filoni.
It can’t be a coincidence.
Look at everything KK has touched, it’s mediocre.
I understand the creative process, but man, the amount of people she has fired off various projects is incredible.
Even Gareth Edwards even got fired off Rogue One. But he played his part, making sure he didn’t hurt his money or be liable.
Nobody’s heard from the man since….
But the ‘Boys Club’ tag, I’ve never seen it that way.
That goes against everything that Star Wars stands for, imo.
posted on 28/6/22
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 29 seconds ago
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, badly written characters.
We’re all for expanding the world, the lore. Give us characters to really be invested in.
Reva’s story is a really interesting story right. Her journey. Sure, wouldn’t mind seeing that being told.
How it got to be part of the main story of Kenobi just threw people. They make say an Inquisitor show, and I’m sure people will be up for it.
It shouldn’t have been a major storyline. And again, it doesn’t make sense.
How can Obi-Wan say, she’s turned good now, when she’s killed how many? He walked past the Tomb of a younglin ffs!!
posted on 28/6/22
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 29 seconds ago
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, badly written characters.
We’re all for expanding the world, the lore. Give us characters to really be invested in.
Reva’s story is a really interesting story right. Her journey. Sure, wouldn’t mind seeing that being told.
How it got to be part of the main story of Kenobi just threw people. They make say an Inquisitor show, and I’m sure people will be up for it.
It shouldn’t have been a major storyline. And again, it doesn’t make sense.
How can Obi-Wan say, she’s turned good now, when she’s killed how many? He walked past the Tomb of a younglin ffs!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those weren't all her kills though, it was the Inquisitors base, there could have been any number of people responsible for the dead.
That whole storyline was stupid. The whole series had a largely stupid storyline tbh.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Insert random username (U10647)
posted 29 seconds ago
If the rumours that KK refused the first storyline of BOBF because it was too dark, then I think she takes the blame for everything..
In that context I see those bright shining Vespas as an act of willful rebellion on the part of the writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, badly written characters.
We’re all for expanding the world, the lore. Give us characters to really be invested in.
Reva’s story is a really interesting story right. Her journey. Sure, wouldn’t mind seeing that being told.
How it got to be part of the main story of Kenobi just threw people. They make say an Inquisitor show, and I’m sure people will be up for it.
It shouldn’t have been a major storyline. And again, it doesn’t make sense.
How can Obi-Wan say, she’s turned good now, when she’s killed how many? He walked past the Tomb of a younglin ffs!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those weren't all her kills though, it was the Inquisitors base, there could have been any number of people responsible for the dead.
That whole storyline was stupid. The whole series had a largely stupid storyline tbh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
slightly off tangent but I would fricking love a spin off from the empires side. A different POV altogether an almost empathetic POV of the empire. Have them quite clearly the baddies still but relateable still showing their motives for fighting
posted on 28/6/22
comment by MK (U9129)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 14 seconds ago
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
It should also be mentioned that Qui gon isn't as infallible as most think. Let's not forget that Dooku was his padawan and he then later became a sith lord.
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I thought Dooku was Yoda's padawan?
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He was
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I got them the wrong way.
Yoda trained Dooku.
Dooku Trained Qui Gon.
posted on 28/6/22
Reva is a poorly written character but I also think her acting was under par, which just exacerbates the issue.
Padme had some atrocious dialogue but Natalie Portman is a good enough actress to compensate for this.
posted on 28/6/22
All good to great female characters in Star Wars:
Leia
Ahsoka (both live action and animated)
Bo Katan (both live action and animated)
Satine (Animated)
Asajj Ventress (Animated)
Hera & Sabine (Animated)
Cara Dune
Mara Jade (Books)
Fennec
posted on 28/6/22
I think whether male or female, characters need to be written well and the individuals depicting them should have the necessary acting skills.
posted on 28/6/22
comment by The Guvnor XI -Iron sharpens Iron- (U12889)
posted 2 minutes ago
All good to great female characters in Star Wars:
Leia
Ahsoka (both live action and animated)
Bo Katan (both live action and animated)
Satine (Animated)
Asajj Ventress (Animated)
Hera & Sabine (Animated)
Cara Dune
Mara Jade (Books)
Fennec
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Fennec ..... thats the answer you need right there.
In a rotten series, she was by a mile a stand out in terms of character and portrayal of her. She was praised for helping pick up TBOB, they seem to see over this when saying we are harsh with the REVA treatment
posted on 28/6/22
comment by Naby8 (U6997)
posted 3 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 13 minutes ago
I wasn’t saying you Naby8, it was directed at Disney/Lucasfilm and their PR team and sections of the media.
Speaking for myself, up until recently, I was all in with KK being the CEO. Thought Lucas made a genius move. But her body of work since then has been a massive letdown.
Sorry, but Chows work on Kenobi was mostly terrible.
She may be a talented director, like Robert Rodriguez.
But as of now, I don’t want either touching anything Star Wars again.
I’ve been a massive supporter of Bryce Dallas Howard.
And I think a lot of people are too.
The Leia thing, was more about cannon, and how they were forcing a storyline that breaks cannon.
It still doesn’t make sense.
And Reva, while an interesting character, is just badly written, and anyone man, woman playing such. Pivotal character within the Skywalker story would’ve been a jar to the system I think.
Reva, is now roaming the galaxy with info, that only a few know. Why? Where they going with this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, each opinion is isolation is completely reasonable. Collectively though, it's uncomfortable imo. I think some people (not pointing any fingers to anyone here) do want the boys club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure there are a few fans that just don't want females in lead roles but I think it's such a miniscule percentage that it doesn't even matter.
If you make good stories with characters that have depth and have been well written, fans will get behind them.
Filoni created an animated female jedi padawan who is widely regarded amongst the fan base as being one of the best characters in SW. Lucas done the same with Princess Leia.
posted on 28/6/22
If you told me that Filoni and Favreau were doing a live action 6 episode show on Asajj Ventress, I would be very excited.
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