it is always going to be difficult in this country, too much media scrutiny, cant imagine its as bad in other countries
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The FA are made up of clueless businessmen which doesn't help. Hearing one last night talk about how good a job Fat Sam has done and how he raised the spirits, after one game, was cringeworthy.
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 22 minutes ago
it is always going to be difficult in this country, too much media scrutiny, cant imagine its as bad in other countries
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in terms of media scrutiny, it is the same everywhere. French and Italian media are not that kind either, nevermind the Spanish one.
But their respective FA have the balls to go against them.
But as the OP said, it seems like here, they tend to go with the popular choice rather than the right man for the right job.
When the French FA recruited Aime Jacquet, it wasn't a popular choice at all. It got even worse when he dropped the like of Cantona and Ginola.
But he won them the WC and set up the fondation for an European win 2 years later.
Would the English FA employe someone who would have the balls to drop Rooney?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
It's funny how the media always get on their high horse about issues like this.
Maybe they should look at themselves as well! What with all their corruption, blatant political Bias, phone hacking, demonisation of certain people and groups.
Corruption is wrong whoever does it. But the press in this country are as bad as they come.
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 4 minutes ago
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clough's drinking was not anywhere near considered "Alcoholic" level when he applied for the England job.
At the time he applied for the job, bungs were not considered to be rife in the game and he took Forest from what is now the Championship to European Champions.
But i don't recall stating in my OP that Clough was 'squeaky clean'.
Hang on i'll re-read it..................... Nope i didn't!
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 7 minutes ago
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can be exposed to media coverage 24/7 and remain "normal". it requires a very big personality to do so.
In the FA defence, they have tried to sign Wenger couple times and failed. But even him cannot be considered as "normal" but at least he is not into drugs, alcohol or bribes as far as we know.
You talked of Clough and then went on talking about the FA wanting someone who was squeaky clean. Of course that was the implication of your article. And Clough was an alcoholic at the time. People like to whitewash history.
If your point is somehow the FA like safe choices is doesn't correspond to history. Employing Sven and Capello could hardly be considered 'safe' at the time. Sven was the first foreign manager and Capello didn't know a word of English. Hiring Fat Sam was a huge mistake. He had history of abusing his position just like Harry.
What makes anyone believe a non safe choice would win England anything. The first thing an International manager needs to have is respect of the players. How would they react to someone with chequered history? At club these people have absolute power. At International level they do not.
comment by but..but.. I thought Wilshite was the next Xavi?? (U10012)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 7 minutes ago
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can be exposed to media coverage 24/7 and remain "normal". it requires a very big personality to do so.
In the FA defence, they have tried to sign Wenger couple times and failed. But even him cannot be considered as "normal" but at least he is not into drugs, alcohol or bribes as far as we know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger had the permission of the club and always acted with the owners, Dein and Fiszman. So Wenger is very professional and honourable.
I think most foreign managers exl Argones, are because they have to answer to a director of football so they cannot get away with the type of nonsense that Fat Sam is accused of.
Certainly as far as B.C is concerned you don't know what you're talking about Jenius99. Were you even alive in the seventies/eighties?
Clough was shunned by the F.A because of his outspoken comments to the press and his out spoken criticism of other managers, Don Revie and his Dirty Leeds team being a prime example.
His reliance on a drink and obvious ill health in later was brought about by winning too many Bells Manager Of The Month awards. The award being the biggest bottle of Bells Whisky that you have ever seen. They used to be presented to him on the pitch by the way.
Also the rift between him and Peter Taylor that was never healed and never could be after Taylors sudden death at a very young age played on him.
Fat Sam has been a fool and there is no comparison between him and Clough Senior.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Red Forest Bear (U6288)
posted 13 minutes ago
Certainly as far as B.C is concerned you don't know what you're talking about Jenius99. Were you even alive in the seventies/eighties?
Clough was shunned by the F.A because of his outspoken comments to the press and his out spoken criticism of other managers, Don Revie and his Dirty Leeds team being a prime example.
His reliance on a drink and obvious ill health in later was brought about by winning too many Bells Manager Of The Month awards. The award being the biggest bottle of Bells Whisky that you have ever seen. They used to be presented to him on the pitch by the way.
Also the rift between him and Peter Taylor that was never healed and never could be after Taylors sudden death at a very young age played on him.
Fat Sam has been a fool and there is no comparison between him and Clough Senior.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I still can't get over his "i'm a winner........." being a wrong answer
When you consider some the guys who got the job Cloughie certainly should have.
Clough 'Liked a bung' ?
-------------
Doesn't everyone.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I can remember the day Brian Clough went for the interview at the FA, because I was shtting myself at the thought of losing him to the England job, we'd never have won all the things we did without him and Peter Taylor.
Does all this mean that Sam would qualify
for FIFA
Clough was shunned by the F.A because of his outspoken comments to the press and his out spoken criticism of other managers, Don Revie and his Dirty Leeds team being a prime example.
His reliance on a drink and obvious ill health in later was brought about by winning too many Bells Manager Of The Month awards. The award being the biggest bottle of Bells Whisky that you have ever seen. They used to be presented to him on the pitch by the way.
-----------------------------------------------------
I am in my early 40s so I admit I was not old enough to understand what was being reported at the time.
However neither were you unless you were a party to the conversations. The fact is there has been a concerted effort to whitewash history when it comes to Brian Clough in order to promote him to saint hood. It is not right. Clough was a great manager at club level and you don't know what the reasons were for the FA to reject him at International level because we were not present at the meeting when it was decided h wouldn't get the job. (And btw those illnesses could have just as well have been induced by his drinking not the other way round.) Even those who have made an effort to research him are not going to publish anything that weakens Clough extra ordinary public image.
My point however was something different. Many fans and this article have made two terrible assumptions. One is that the FA doesn't take risks. I am not one to defend the FA, but appointing Sven and Capello were not safe options. And the second assumption is the implication that flawed men are going to do a better job than those with morals or ethics. If you look at the managers who have won the world cup, you will find that most were understated and you wouldn't even remember their names! Its always about the players. (apart from Argones who inherited a Barca team at the top of their form and frankly he should have been fired for making racist comments)
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The FA is a terrible organisation that does not reflect the players or the football in this country. Unfortunately like the BBC it is still run by fat old white men. Whats worse is that because they know they are out of touch they react to the media for the wrong reasons rather than reforming. Fat Sam should have NEVER been appointed.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Capello didn't know a word of English. Hardly safe tbh.
Sign in if you want to comment
And Cloughie never got the England job.....
Page 1 of 2
posted on 28/9/16
it is always going to be difficult in this country, too much media scrutiny, cant imagine its as bad in other countries
posted on 28/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/9/16
The FA are made up of clueless businessmen which doesn't help. Hearing one last night talk about how good a job Fat Sam has done and how he raised the spirits, after one game, was cringeworthy.
posted on 28/9/16
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 22 minutes ago
it is always going to be difficult in this country, too much media scrutiny, cant imagine its as bad in other countries
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in terms of media scrutiny, it is the same everywhere. French and Italian media are not that kind either, nevermind the Spanish one.
But their respective FA have the balls to go against them.
But as the OP said, it seems like here, they tend to go with the popular choice rather than the right man for the right job.
When the French FA recruited Aime Jacquet, it wasn't a popular choice at all. It got even worse when he dropped the like of Cantona and Ginola.
But he won them the WC and set up the fondation for an European win 2 years later.
Would the English FA employe someone who would have the balls to drop Rooney?
posted on 28/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/9/16
It's funny how the media always get on their high horse about issues like this.
Maybe they should look at themselves as well! What with all their corruption, blatant political Bias, phone hacking, demonisation of certain people and groups.
Corruption is wrong whoever does it. But the press in this country are as bad as they come.
posted on 28/9/16
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
posted on 28/9/16
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 4 minutes ago
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clough's drinking was not anywhere near considered "Alcoholic" level when he applied for the England job.
At the time he applied for the job, bungs were not considered to be rife in the game and he took Forest from what is now the Championship to European Champions.
But i don't recall stating in my OP that Clough was 'squeaky clean'.
Hang on i'll re-read it..................... Nope i didn't!
posted on 28/9/16
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 7 minutes ago
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can be exposed to media coverage 24/7 and remain "normal". it requires a very big personality to do so.
In the FA defence, they have tried to sign Wenger couple times and failed. But even him cannot be considered as "normal" but at least he is not into drugs, alcohol or bribes as far as we know.
posted on 28/9/16
You talked of Clough and then went on talking about the FA wanting someone who was squeaky clean. Of course that was the implication of your article. And Clough was an alcoholic at the time. People like to whitewash history.
If your point is somehow the FA like safe choices is doesn't correspond to history. Employing Sven and Capello could hardly be considered 'safe' at the time. Sven was the first foreign manager and Capello didn't know a word of English. Hiring Fat Sam was a huge mistake. He had history of abusing his position just like Harry.
What makes anyone believe a non safe choice would win England anything. The first thing an International manager needs to have is respect of the players. How would they react to someone with chequered history? At club these people have absolute power. At International level they do not.
posted on 28/9/16
comment by but..but.. I thought Wilshite was the next Xavi?? (U10012)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 7 minutes ago
Clough was a known alcoholic. I don't know what the OP is talking about squeaky clean.
How about just being normal? Or does the original poster think its perfectly normal taking bribes, being an alcoholic or a drug user or abusing your position?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think you can be exposed to media coverage 24/7 and remain "normal". it requires a very big personality to do so.
In the FA defence, they have tried to sign Wenger couple times and failed. But even him cannot be considered as "normal" but at least he is not into drugs, alcohol or bribes as far as we know.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger had the permission of the club and always acted with the owners, Dein and Fiszman. So Wenger is very professional and honourable.
I think most foreign managers exl Argones, are because they have to answer to a director of football so they cannot get away with the type of nonsense that Fat Sam is accused of.
posted on 28/9/16
Certainly as far as B.C is concerned you don't know what you're talking about Jenius99. Were you even alive in the seventies/eighties?
Clough was shunned by the F.A because of his outspoken comments to the press and his out spoken criticism of other managers, Don Revie and his Dirty Leeds team being a prime example.
His reliance on a drink and obvious ill health in later was brought about by winning too many Bells Manager Of The Month awards. The award being the biggest bottle of Bells Whisky that you have ever seen. They used to be presented to him on the pitch by the way.
Also the rift between him and Peter Taylor that was never healed and never could be after Taylors sudden death at a very young age played on him.
Fat Sam has been a fool and there is no comparison between him and Clough Senior.
posted on 28/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/9/16
comment by Red Forest Bear (U6288)
posted 13 minutes ago
Certainly as far as B.C is concerned you don't know what you're talking about Jenius99. Were you even alive in the seventies/eighties?
Clough was shunned by the F.A because of his outspoken comments to the press and his out spoken criticism of other managers, Don Revie and his Dirty Leeds team being a prime example.
His reliance on a drink and obvious ill health in later was brought about by winning too many Bells Manager Of The Month awards. The award being the biggest bottle of Bells Whisky that you have ever seen. They used to be presented to him on the pitch by the way.
Also the rift between him and Peter Taylor that was never healed and never could be after Taylors sudden death at a very young age played on him.
Fat Sam has been a fool and there is no comparison between him and Clough Senior.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I still can't get over his "i'm a winner........." being a wrong answer
When you consider some the guys who got the job Cloughie certainly should have.
posted on 28/9/16
Clough 'Liked a bung' ?
-------------
Doesn't everyone.
posted on 28/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 28/9/16
I can remember the day Brian Clough went for the interview at the FA, because I was shtting myself at the thought of losing him to the England job, we'd never have won all the things we did without him and Peter Taylor.
posted on 29/9/16
Does all this mean that Sam would qualify
for FIFA
posted on 29/9/16
Clough was shunned by the F.A because of his outspoken comments to the press and his out spoken criticism of other managers, Don Revie and his Dirty Leeds team being a prime example.
His reliance on a drink and obvious ill health in later was brought about by winning too many Bells Manager Of The Month awards. The award being the biggest bottle of Bells Whisky that you have ever seen. They used to be presented to him on the pitch by the way.
-----------------------------------------------------
I am in my early 40s so I admit I was not old enough to understand what was being reported at the time.
However neither were you unless you were a party to the conversations. The fact is there has been a concerted effort to whitewash history when it comes to Brian Clough in order to promote him to saint hood. It is not right. Clough was a great manager at club level and you don't know what the reasons were for the FA to reject him at International level because we were not present at the meeting when it was decided h wouldn't get the job. (And btw those illnesses could have just as well have been induced by his drinking not the other way round.) Even those who have made an effort to research him are not going to publish anything that weakens Clough extra ordinary public image.
My point however was something different. Many fans and this article have made two terrible assumptions. One is that the FA doesn't take risks. I am not one to defend the FA, but appointing Sven and Capello were not safe options. And the second assumption is the implication that flawed men are going to do a better job than those with morals or ethics. If you look at the managers who have won the world cup, you will find that most were understated and you wouldn't even remember their names! Its always about the players. (apart from Argones who inherited a Barca team at the top of their form and frankly he should have been fired for making racist comments)
posted on 29/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/9/16
The FA is a terrible organisation that does not reflect the players or the football in this country. Unfortunately like the BBC it is still run by fat old white men. Whats worse is that because they know they are out of touch they react to the media for the wrong reasons rather than reforming. Fat Sam should have NEVER been appointed.
posted on 29/9/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 29/9/16
Capello didn't know a word of English. Hardly safe tbh.
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