comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 22 minutes ago
What makes you think its an end to the United States of Europe? It's just goingbto go from strength to strength now the perpetual doom-mongers are willingly walking away, its their wet dream for the UK to pizz off and let them get on with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Populism in Austria, Sweden, France, UK, Poland, Germany, Holland, Italy, Finland, Slovakia, Prague, Hungary, Greece........your views on what you think the Eu is, will alter soon.
Brussels is a ballix๐
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
Stuart
You forgot
#wishfulthinking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Delusional.
I actually felt sorry for some of the MP's today, as many had to implement a bill, they knew would be damaging to their constituents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#crystalballs
When someone lists Prague as a country, you know they haven't got a clue or are completely wasted.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 19 minutes ago
TBAB
With respect, time and again, you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the topic you wish to discuss.
Ireland are bound by EU legislation. As they are a EU member. They therefore cannot in any shape or form, make a bespoke deal with NI. Just like German car manufacturers (a much discussed topic) will have to implement whatever economic landscape befalls on them post brexit.
You seem to think Ireland, north and south, can just sort things out between themselves. If the EU decide (which now looks a certainty) there cannot be a common travel area between North and South, that's exactly what will happen.
Even when I have provided you with indisputable facts in regard to WTO, EU regulatory requirements which will be disastrous for the Provence, you can't seem to get around the "failing Brussels" rhetoric. Utter nonsense.
The UK, now more than ever need the EU to be successful. For more reasons than I care to share with you, as again, with respect, it would probably go completely over your head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the ground, people adapt, and we can work it out on our borders, relationships, trade, without some law from brussels....you are in awe of some Eu dreamland.
Life is not as strict and red tape driven as you make out, as people want freedom, not more interference.
Historic vote in parliament....good start to brexit and triggering Article 50 in March.
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - ููุณุทูู (U1860)
posted 3 minutes ago
When someone lists Prague as a country, you know they haven't got a clue or are completely wasted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really, you are posting that๐ค...govt based in Prague, is it not?
Fact is, Eu states are turning nationalist, populist, or patriotic, yet remainers cling to an entity moving right or far right....odd.
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - ููุณุทูู (U1860)
posted 9 minutes ago
When someone lists Prague as a country, you know they haven't got a clue or are completely wasted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Wish I was wasted.
On the ground, people adapt
------
Yup, people have adapted to the civil war in Syria.. doesn't mean it was good for them.
TBAB
I've explained before but will try again.
If the UK wishes to continue to trade post brexit, goods and services will have to conform to EU regulations. The UK government have already started to do the preliminary work at the WTO. To acquire it's trading schedules.
There are no amendments, as to do so would kick off a worldwide trade war. All EU directives come from a collection of internationally recognised standards/codes of practice. Which are implemented by the WTO.
The EU simply cut and paste these standards into EU Law.
When we leave these standards will still apply, and will do as long as the UK wish to trade with other countries.
In short, despite all the nonsense and rhetoric, immigrants and sovereignty, the UK government are not able to change anything of any substance.
In ten years time, you'll still be ranting about Brussels. But will be less well off.
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - ููุณุทูู (U1860)
posted 1 minute ago
On the ground, people adapt
------
Yup, people have adapted to the civil war in Syria.. doesn't mean it was good for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was talking about north and south here adapting, working together on friendly terms...... I am a unionist/ loyalist, but don't want a hard Ulster/Eire border, or bad feeling as this could encourage aye are elements to stir up sectarian violence.
As for Syria, in future the UK and USA will not be going to fight in Muslim lands, as May and Trump stated, using Iraq as an example.
Perhaps protestors could have marche'd against Assad, or Isis years ago, or against Iran and hezbollah, all wrecking Syria.Stop the war only hate America and the UK, and the left are hypocrites and have been shown up.
When will anti Trump leftists, feminists and lgbt hardliners march against Islamist extremists?
TBAB
One of the proposals raised today in the house of commons to oversee the Irish post brexit customs boarder was for helicopters to fly overhead, monitoring traffic of goods.
Seriously.
True to form goes off on one about leftists... and misss the point completely.
Sure people adapt, it doesn't mean the situation they have to adapt to is good for them. That was the point.
TBAB
Don't take my word for it, both timelines from today:
https://twitter.com/ManufacturingNI
Northern Ireland select committee:
https://twitter.com/CommonsNIAC?s=09
You don't want an hard border but the Republic of Ireland doesn't have a choice, its governed by the rules of a club the UK are walking away from, WWSPD has tried to explain it to you again and again but you just refuse to comprehend, instead your utopian thinking over rules the rational logic.
Your delight at Trump and his election victory is misguided, Irvine Welsh summed it up, Trumps America First policy means exactly that, not America First with a few crumbs for the UK. He, like his fellow protectionist Nationalist Putin are rubbing their hands in glee at the EU's woes. They know its gravy time for them.
One of trumps team said that he expects the Euro to fail and if he had the opportunity he would short the Euro.
Why?
One of the reasons is to ensure the dollar maintains its demand as a global currency.
They want the EU to break up it serves their interests, not the interests of the people in the EU.
The EU is actually a very good counterbalance v the US, and they don't like it.
As Hector noted Trump is against free trade. Period.
Not because free trade (whether it's bilateral or multilateral) represents a "bad deal" he disagrees with WTO arbitration requirements. He simply disagrees with the international FTA rules.
In that a company can lodge a complaint against a government, and vice versa. Trade disputes either lead to sanctions or a concession from the smaller complainant.
When he says the US want a trade deal with the UK, it won't be a FTA (without tarriffs and barriers). He'll also want to address the UK's trade surplus with the US.
In his book "The Art of the Deal" he famously stated:
“The worst thing you can possibly do in a deal is seem desperate to make it. That makes the other guy smell blood, and then you’re dead.”
America first.
He also wants to lessen the influence of the EU. As I mentioned to TBAB, the EU has become the world leader in defining conformity.
In that many countries around the world have adopted EU standards to facilitate trade. Nearly half of the WTO.
If I get a chance later, I'll post a link from a former WTO trade negotiator in regard to EU protectionism. Over the last 30 odd years the EU have implemented a host of regulations to protect members from cheap imports from the US etc.
Don't agree with them but it's just another aspect of this situation that no-one thought about. And to be honest, other than the trade negotiators involved, no one ever would!
The irony is left wingers always opposed free trade... until trump came along. Now they're standing up for free trade
The effects of globalisation will continue to be the main driver for political, economic & social change in our society for decades.
The first half of the 21st Century, with advances in technology, will see elites around the world re-position themselves while consolidating and reinforcing their dominance.
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
The irony is left wingers always opposed free trade... until trump came along. Now they're standing up for free trade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not just a huge generalisation, its rubbish!
Internationalism is a fundamental.
Left wingers are all for free movement of people.
Indeed human beings should have free movement as a fundamental.
It's only creation of imaginary lines on land mass and policies of people that can control resources that take away this freedom.
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 12 hours, 34 minutes ago
In ten years time, you'll still be ranting about Brussels. But will be less well off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And be less able to do anything about it. As us silly 'remoaners' said would happen all those many, many months ago.
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
The irony is left wingers always opposed free trade... until trump came along. Now they're standing up for free trade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? How do you figure that then? I think your mixing up free trade with, well I'm not sure what you're mixing it up with - probably illegal trading, exploitation and profiteering.
Henrys Cat
I can’t get my head around the fact that there is an abundance of information online which defines trading commitments. The WTO website (and WCO – World Customs Organisation) being two.
I’ve yet to hear any MP bring up/discuss the multitude of issues being a sovereign WTO member will entail. The narrative throughout has either surrounded “Brexit means Brexit” or “getting the best deal possible”
No consideration has been given to our future trading requirements.
I won’t go on (*gets noose*) too much but….Because there are so many trading schedules, and to alter them would instigate a trade dispute, and also due to sheer body of work required, the UK are extracting all trading schedules.
Even for goods/services we don’t, and have never produced/manufactured.
One example, oranges. When the UK accedes to the WTO, it will present trading schedules to the 164 members which cover the produce, export/import etc tariffs, conformity. Oranges, a fruit grown (in the EU) in Portugal, Spain, and Italy.
All 164 WTO members (including the e27 and EU as are WTO members in their own right) will in turn have to analyse our trading schedules, and then ratify, assuming there is agreement. Italy, or Spain (who may use Gibraltar as leverage) may dispute that the UK (as a third party and non-EU member) has no right to take on these commitments at WTO level.
We therefore need the EU’s cooperation (and goodwill) throughout this process. I understand before they will even discuss future trading relationships, (during a50 negotiations) pre-existing UK commitments to the EU will have to be settled. Which is believed to be anything between 30/50 billion Euros.
Much like the decision to invade Iraq no attention is, nor has been, given to the implications, or what will happen after we exit the EU.
Anyway, latest Brexit rant over
Ehh up, the government have just released their cunning plan:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/588948/The_United_Kingdoms_exit_from_and_partnership_with_the_EU_Web.pdf
Stuart
I read the preface.
"One of the world’s largest and strongest economies. With the finest intelligence services, the bravest armed forces, the most effective hard and soft power, and friendships, partnerships and alliances in every continent."
We're rich.
We know what you're up to.
We can fight you.
We're utterly deluded.
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 22 minutes ago
Stuart
I read the preface.
"One of the world’s largest and strongest economies. With the finest intelligence services, the bravest armed forces, the most effective hard and soft power, and friendships, partnerships and alliances in every continent."
We're rich.
We know what you're up to.
We can fight you.
We're utterly deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have had a brief read and not really much that wasn’t already in the public domain.
Looks like it’s been intentionally prolonged to give an ‘in depth’ appearance . Some of the government’s proposals are encouraging however. The commitment to CAP (farming etc). The downside is that funds will come from (an already stretched) public purse. Not sure if this is a long or short term commitment, nor how much it will cost the tax payer.
Telling (from an Irish perspective). The often used term “no return to the hard border” was omitted from the paper. It states:
“minimise frictions and administrative burdens” as well as finding a “practical solution that keeps the border as seamless and frictionless as possible.” A bit woolly to say the least…
In regard to Parliamentary sovereignty, thought this was a bit ironic, (given all the “take back control” nonsense).
“The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.”
Sign in if you want to comment
Brexit AHHHHHH
Page 135 of 166
136 | 137 | 138 | 139 | 140
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 22 minutes ago
What makes you think its an end to the United States of Europe? It's just goingbto go from strength to strength now the perpetual doom-mongers are willingly walking away, its their wet dream for the UK to pizz off and let them get on with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Populism in Austria, Sweden, France, UK, Poland, Germany, Holland, Italy, Finland, Slovakia, Prague, Hungary, Greece........your views on what you think the Eu is, will alter soon.
Brussels is a ballix๐
posted on 1/2/17
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 5 minutes ago
Stuart
You forgot
#wishfulthinking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Delusional.
I actually felt sorry for some of the MP's today, as many had to implement a bill, they knew would be damaging to their constituents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#crystalballs
posted on 1/2/17
When someone lists Prague as a country, you know they haven't got a clue or are completely wasted.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 19 minutes ago
TBAB
With respect, time and again, you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the topic you wish to discuss.
Ireland are bound by EU legislation. As they are a EU member. They therefore cannot in any shape or form, make a bespoke deal with NI. Just like German car manufacturers (a much discussed topic) will have to implement whatever economic landscape befalls on them post brexit.
You seem to think Ireland, north and south, can just sort things out between themselves. If the EU decide (which now looks a certainty) there cannot be a common travel area between North and South, that's exactly what will happen.
Even when I have provided you with indisputable facts in regard to WTO, EU regulatory requirements which will be disastrous for the Provence, you can't seem to get around the "failing Brussels" rhetoric. Utter nonsense.
The UK, now more than ever need the EU to be successful. For more reasons than I care to share with you, as again, with respect, it would probably go completely over your head.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On the ground, people adapt, and we can work it out on our borders, relationships, trade, without some law from brussels....you are in awe of some Eu dreamland.
Life is not as strict and red tape driven as you make out, as people want freedom, not more interference.
Historic vote in parliament....good start to brexit and triggering Article 50 in March.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - ููุณุทูู (U1860)
posted 3 minutes ago
When someone lists Prague as a country, you know they haven't got a clue or are completely wasted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Really, you are posting that๐ค...govt based in Prague, is it not?
Fact is, Eu states are turning nationalist, populist, or patriotic, yet remainers cling to an entity moving right or far right....odd.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - ููุณุทูู (U1860)
posted 9 minutes ago
When someone lists Prague as a country, you know they haven't got a clue or are completely wasted.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Wish I was wasted.
posted on 1/2/17
On the ground, people adapt
------
Yup, people have adapted to the civil war in Syria.. doesn't mean it was good for them.
posted on 1/2/17
TBAB
I've explained before but will try again.
If the UK wishes to continue to trade post brexit, goods and services will have to conform to EU regulations. The UK government have already started to do the preliminary work at the WTO. To acquire it's trading schedules.
There are no amendments, as to do so would kick off a worldwide trade war. All EU directives come from a collection of internationally recognised standards/codes of practice. Which are implemented by the WTO.
The EU simply cut and paste these standards into EU Law.
When we leave these standards will still apply, and will do as long as the UK wish to trade with other countries.
In short, despite all the nonsense and rhetoric, immigrants and sovereignty, the UK government are not able to change anything of any substance.
In ten years time, you'll still be ranting about Brussels. But will be less well off.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - ููุณุทูู (U1860)
posted 1 minute ago
On the ground, people adapt
------
Yup, people have adapted to the civil war in Syria.. doesn't mean it was good for them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was talking about north and south here adapting, working together on friendly terms...... I am a unionist/ loyalist, but don't want a hard Ulster/Eire border, or bad feeling as this could encourage aye are elements to stir up sectarian violence.
As for Syria, in future the UK and USA will not be going to fight in Muslim lands, as May and Trump stated, using Iraq as an example.
Perhaps protestors could have marche'd against Assad, or Isis years ago, or against Iran and hezbollah, all wrecking Syria.Stop the war only hate America and the UK, and the left are hypocrites and have been shown up.
When will anti Trump leftists, feminists and lgbt hardliners march against Islamist extremists?
posted on 1/2/17
TBAB
One of the proposals raised today in the house of commons to oversee the Irish post brexit customs boarder was for helicopters to fly overhead, monitoring traffic of goods.
Seriously.
posted on 1/2/17
True to form goes off on one about leftists... and misss the point completely.
Sure people adapt, it doesn't mean the situation they have to adapt to is good for them. That was the point.
posted on 2/2/17
TBAB
Don't take my word for it, both timelines from today:
https://twitter.com/ManufacturingNI
Northern Ireland select committee:
https://twitter.com/CommonsNIAC?s=09
posted on 2/2/17
You don't want an hard border but the Republic of Ireland doesn't have a choice, its governed by the rules of a club the UK are walking away from, WWSPD has tried to explain it to you again and again but you just refuse to comprehend, instead your utopian thinking over rules the rational logic.
Your delight at Trump and his election victory is misguided, Irvine Welsh summed it up, Trumps America First policy means exactly that, not America First with a few crumbs for the UK. He, like his fellow protectionist Nationalist Putin are rubbing their hands in glee at the EU's woes. They know its gravy time for them.
posted on 2/2/17
One of trumps team said that he expects the Euro to fail and if he had the opportunity he would short the Euro.
Why?
One of the reasons is to ensure the dollar maintains its demand as a global currency.
They want the EU to break up it serves their interests, not the interests of the people in the EU.
The EU is actually a very good counterbalance v the US, and they don't like it.
posted on 2/2/17
As Hector noted Trump is against free trade. Period.
Not because free trade (whether it's bilateral or multilateral) represents a "bad deal" he disagrees with WTO arbitration requirements. He simply disagrees with the international FTA rules.
In that a company can lodge a complaint against a government, and vice versa. Trade disputes either lead to sanctions or a concession from the smaller complainant.
When he says the US want a trade deal with the UK, it won't be a FTA (without tarriffs and barriers). He'll also want to address the UK's trade surplus with the US.
In his book "The Art of the Deal" he famously stated:
“The worst thing you can possibly do in a deal is seem desperate to make it. That makes the other guy smell blood, and then you’re dead.”
America first.
He also wants to lessen the influence of the EU. As I mentioned to TBAB, the EU has become the world leader in defining conformity.
In that many countries around the world have adopted EU standards to facilitate trade. Nearly half of the WTO.
If I get a chance later, I'll post a link from a former WTO trade negotiator in regard to EU protectionism. Over the last 30 odd years the EU have implemented a host of regulations to protect members from cheap imports from the US etc.
Don't agree with them but it's just another aspect of this situation that no-one thought about. And to be honest, other than the trade negotiators involved, no one ever would!
posted on 2/2/17
The irony is left wingers always opposed free trade... until trump came along. Now they're standing up for free trade
posted on 2/2/17
The effects of globalisation will continue to be the main driver for political, economic & social change in our society for decades.
The first half of the 21st Century, with advances in technology, will see elites around the world re-position themselves while consolidating and reinforcing their dominance.
posted on 2/2/17
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
The irony is left wingers always opposed free trade... until trump came along. Now they're standing up for free trade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not just a huge generalisation, its rubbish!
Internationalism is a fundamental.
posted on 2/2/17
Left wingers are all for free movement of people.
Indeed human beings should have free movement as a fundamental.
It's only creation of imaginary lines on land mass and policies of people that can control resources that take away this freedom.
posted on 2/2/17
comment by What would Stuart Pearce do? (U3126)
posted 12 hours, 34 minutes ago
In ten years time, you'll still be ranting about Brussels. But will be less well off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And be less able to do anything about it. As us silly 'remoaners' said would happen all those many, many months ago.
posted on 2/2/17
comment by 8bit (U2653)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
The irony is left wingers always opposed free trade... until trump came along. Now they're standing up for free trade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What? How do you figure that then? I think your mixing up free trade with, well I'm not sure what you're mixing it up with - probably illegal trading, exploitation and profiteering.
posted on 2/2/17
Henrys Cat
I can’t get my head around the fact that there is an abundance of information online which defines trading commitments. The WTO website (and WCO – World Customs Organisation) being two.
I’ve yet to hear any MP bring up/discuss the multitude of issues being a sovereign WTO member will entail. The narrative throughout has either surrounded “Brexit means Brexit” or “getting the best deal possible”
No consideration has been given to our future trading requirements.
I won’t go on (*gets noose*) too much but….Because there are so many trading schedules, and to alter them would instigate a trade dispute, and also due to sheer body of work required, the UK are extracting all trading schedules.
Even for goods/services we don’t, and have never produced/manufactured.
One example, oranges. When the UK accedes to the WTO, it will present trading schedules to the 164 members which cover the produce, export/import etc tariffs, conformity. Oranges, a fruit grown (in the EU) in Portugal, Spain, and Italy.
All 164 WTO members (including the e27 and EU as are WTO members in their own right) will in turn have to analyse our trading schedules, and then ratify, assuming there is agreement. Italy, or Spain (who may use Gibraltar as leverage) may dispute that the UK (as a third party and non-EU member) has no right to take on these commitments at WTO level.
We therefore need the EU’s cooperation (and goodwill) throughout this process. I understand before they will even discuss future trading relationships, (during a50 negotiations) pre-existing UK commitments to the EU will have to be settled. Which is believed to be anything between 30/50 billion Euros.
Much like the decision to invade Iraq no attention is, nor has been, given to the implications, or what will happen after we exit the EU.
Anyway, latest Brexit rant over
posted on 2/2/17
Ehh up, the government have just released their cunning plan:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/588948/The_United_Kingdoms_exit_from_and_partnership_with_the_EU_Web.pdf
posted on 2/2/17
Stuart
I read the preface.
"One of the world’s largest and strongest economies. With the finest intelligence services, the bravest armed forces, the most effective hard and soft power, and friendships, partnerships and alliances in every continent."
We're rich.
We know what you're up to.
We can fight you.
We're utterly deluded.
posted on 2/2/17
comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 22 minutes ago
Stuart
I read the preface.
"One of the world’s largest and strongest economies. With the finest intelligence services, the bravest armed forces, the most effective hard and soft power, and friendships, partnerships and alliances in every continent."
We're rich.
We know what you're up to.
We can fight you.
We're utterly deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have had a brief read and not really much that wasn’t already in the public domain.
Looks like it’s been intentionally prolonged to give an ‘in depth’ appearance . Some of the government’s proposals are encouraging however. The commitment to CAP (farming etc). The downside is that funds will come from (an already stretched) public purse. Not sure if this is a long or short term commitment, nor how much it will cost the tax payer.
Telling (from an Irish perspective). The often used term “no return to the hard border” was omitted from the paper. It states:
“minimise frictions and administrative burdens” as well as finding a “practical solution that keeps the border as seamless and frictionless as possible.” A bit woolly to say the least…
In regard to Parliamentary sovereignty, thought this was a bit ironic, (given all the “take back control” nonsense).
“The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.”
Page 135 of 166
136 | 137 | 138 | 139 | 140