Pretty much in full agreement Nev. I don't think any of us expected to be up there in the top 4 and all signings to be tearing up the league.
However, that doesn't mean to say that's a Ranieri still doesn't have two key jobs in his hands:
1. Getting the formation right without Kante
2. Motivating the players after they've "won it all"
These are my worries today. We don't just look like a team getting back up to speed, we look short on both tactics and belief. The first will come with time but the second needs addressing quickly or it can become a spiral.
So I'm happy for us to focus on the champions league but not at the cost of our league success.
Whilst I'm not panicking, there are a couple of worrying signs I want to see eradicated over the next few games.
The main one being the lack of fight in the players. I can forgive losing when we show that.
I said a similar thing about Ranieri will know what to do as he worked it out last season around this time. But I do feel that after the first 3 away defeats he should have realised and given ourselves the best chance on Saturday. But he didn't
It was something of a change on Saturday, playing (supposedly) defensively capable wide midfielders and his two fastest attackers up front to play on the counter. The thing is, having watched the match, I don't think it would have mattered what formation we played - the players as a squad weren't up for it enough. The mindset has to change, otherwise any tactical adjustments will just be akin to deckchair rearrangement.
Claudio may know who we are , but does he know we now have two teams.One plays in Europe, and looks similar to our title winning side, and the other looks like the side we had two years ago.
The second side looks un recognisable from the first , with a very shaky and weak defence, and the whole team seems to have no direction or understanding.
Watching Leicester in the legue at present is similar to watching England in the Euros.Clueless.
Lets hope Ranieri gets this sorted soon.
Again guys let's have some perspective. We have been thumped by 3 really good teams away from home who all no doubt had a point to prove against us after last season.
In general we have done what we needed to against the leagues lesser lights. Let's hope for 2 wins this week and all will be well again.
It would be very important to beat Copenhagen, imo.
The situation in the PL is far from alarming as things stand, but the CL is going to get much tougher in the k.o. rounds, requiring even greater attention than it has up to now if you mean to progress.
A victory against the Danes would give you a great cushion and might allow you to focus more on the PL for a while. It would be quite worrying if you hadn't put a fair bit of daylight between yourselves and the relegation battlers come February.
All points are very valid, answer is the enjoy the ride that is Leicester City in uncharted territory.
As Mersey pointed out on another thread, the WUMs can try all they like but we are Still the Champions of England!!
Nev
I concur with most of what you have said......
The thing to remember is that the vast majority of realistic LCFC supporters expected a mid table finish in the league ( maybe about 8th with a bit of luck) as the juggling of PL and CL was going to be a new experience for the majority of our players.
Yes we expanded the squad in the summer but we are still a mid table side ( as most of us have been saying, not expecting perfect storm of last season to happen again). It is obviously a difficult juggling act for a medium sized club to get the balancing act right in both competitions, and at the moment hopefully with a positive result his week we can safely say we have all but got out of our CL group. This was the minimum pre-requisite at the start of the campaign. Anything beyond this would be a bonus.
As for he PL campaign, YES it has started a lot slower than we all ( fans, manager, owners, players) would have liked but we have lost away to sides that I fully expect to finish in or around the Top 4 come May. But I still feel that we going to be safely ensconced in the next group mid table come the end of the season. We have a good squad, we have a bigger squad then before but we just need to gain a lot more of that self belief and energy on the pitch.
We know that the players all go out there and try every game, but we are just missing that 10% extra that makes all of the difference. This is down to CR to instill that mentality and belief and work ethic into the players sooner rather than later.
As for away from home formations, like some on here I have been calling for a 4-5-1 formation to attempt to shore things up, draw the oppositions defenders upfield marking only 1 forward and see if we can utilise our pacey counter attacking instinct again. I hope to see this sooner rather than later, but in the meantime this is a sticky patch in the league but we will get through this.
I just wish some supporters would have realistic expectations, but I suppose winning the PL last season has gone to their heads.
Lets just remember we are Leicester City, we aren't a massive club, we aren't going to finish top 4 this season, BUT Leicester City is OUR club and we just want to see more effort and passion, if we do then the results will start to turn for us.
UTF
I don't think they feel any less passion its just harder to keep that level up and soon we need to be good enough to win without having really on passion and spirit alone.
Let me give you analogy to the Fearless thing. During WW2 they used mainly first time troops on landings such as D,Day Anzio etc. Highly trained and with experienced NCO's. The reason for this is obvious the first timers would not hesitate or consider their actions based on previous experience of other landings.
Now our boys have experienced the great escape and now PL champions and have something to lose. In the CL its a fresh challenge and they play like it is.
Last season Ranieri picked a team and formation that worked, it suited the players we had but it doesn't suit the players we have now. Kante is a big loss but so is Okazaki. He might not have scored many but his work rate was very underestimated and has been overlooked.
I know Slimani cost a fortune but I think he should be on the bench and come on after Okazaki has run his socks off for an hour.
We have to approach every game individually by assessing the strengths of the opposition and picking a team and formation that will counter their threat. At the moment we're ignoring that and approaching every game the same and it's costing us. I think 4-4-2 will work against the lesser sides but not against the top teams. We need to be less predictable.
The teams we play now adjust their tactics to counter ours, we need to do the same back. After Liverpool and United first half I'd have thought that would be enough for him to see that we need five in midfield because second half against United we were the better team, even Mourinho admitted that. Going 4-4-2 at Chelsea was extremely naive and again we paid the price. Hopefully that will be the last time because if we go to Spurs and do the same we're going to lose again.
Agree with you my Antipodean friend Slimani off the bench unless you are playing both the long throw boys.
Musa off the bench for Vardy and Gray for Marhez
Said many times Europe takes it out of sides in their first campaign
You go from being able to have a tight squad of perhaps 14-16 players you use for every game, to having to expand it by at least 5 players of similar quality.
Once the CL breaks in December you will have an upturn in form I expect, a good couple of months without midweek distractions
I don't think it's so much the formation as the intensity we play at, too dangerous to let the top quality teams just have the ball, we need to get into them and work harder off the ball.
Liverpool did exactly that to us, they also did it last night to Man Utd, by doing this you stop them building up a head of steam.
Okazaki is the talisman for this, by dropping him from the team it immediately shows our way of playing.
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 53 minutes ago
Said many times Europe takes it out of sides in their first campaign
You go from being able to have a tight squad of perhaps 14-16 players you use for every game, to having to expand it by at least 5 players of similar quality.
Once the CL breaks in December you will have an upturn in form I expect, a good couple of months without midweek distractions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping our up turn in form comes before December with the fixtures we have coming up. Between now and the end of the year we play Tottenham away and Man City at home which we'll probably lose but the rest are against teams we should be looking at getting positive results against.
Palace, West Brom, Boro, Everton and West Ham at home and Watford, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Stoke away. It's a very good chance to put some points on the board and will probably end up shaping our season. Do well in these games and we'll push up the league, if we don't we'll be in for a struggle.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Champions of England (U21032)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
I'm hoping our up turn in form comes before December with the fixtures we have coming up. Between now and the end of the year we play Tottenham away and Man City at home which we'll probably lose but the rest are against teams we should be looking at getting positive results against.
Palace, West Brom, Boro, Everton and West Ham at home and Watford, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Stoke away. It's a very good chance to put some points on the board and will probably end up shaping our season. Do well in these games and we'll push up the league, if we don't we'll be in for a struggle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. That's why I think winning tonight could be so crucial to your season.
5 points on second and at least 5 on third with 3 games to play would mean that you'd only need to beat Brugges at home in the final group game in order to qualify, possibly even top.
That would give you plnty of breathing space and enough games to cement a good league position in the months before the CL k.o. stage kicks in.
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Champions of England (U21032)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
I'm hoping our up turn in form comes before December with the fixtures we have coming up. Between now and the end of the year we play Tottenham away and Man City at home which we'll probably lose but the rest are against teams we should be looking at getting positive results against.
Palace, West Brom, Boro, Everton and West Ham at home and Watford, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Stoke away. It's a very good chance to put some points on the board and will probably end up shaping our season. Do well in these games and we'll push up the league, if we don't we'll be in for a struggle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. That's why I think winning tonight could be so crucial to your season.
5 points on second and at least 5 on third with 3 games to play would mean that you'd only need to beat Brugges at home in the final group game in order to qualify, possibly even top.
That would give you plnty of breathing space and enough games to cement a good league position in the months before the CL k.o. stage kicks in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah definitely. A win tonight and a point next game away to Copenhagen and it should be enough. Brugges are poor so we should be able to rest a few and still win which would be enough to top the group meaning Porto away won't mean anything. It is important that we win the group so hopefully we can do so asap so we can switch our focus back to the league.
Leicester City are playing in CL how they played in PL last season. Maybe underdog and a bit of luck suits them.
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
Leicester City are playing in CL how they played in PL last season. Maybe underdog and a bit of luck suits them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit of luck? The luck went against us tonight when Slimani's goal was wrongly disallowed.
The real difference is the intensity in which we're playing but this is the competition we're prioritising as the league takes a back seat.
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 14 hours, 18 minutes ago
Leicester City are playing in CL how they played in PL last season. Maybe underdog and a bit of luck suits them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously didn't see the whole game as luck was one thing we didn't have tonight.
Congratulations on the win! You've got this one in the bag now.
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Claudio Knows who we are
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posted on 17/10/16
Pretty much in full agreement Nev. I don't think any of us expected to be up there in the top 4 and all signings to be tearing up the league.
However, that doesn't mean to say that's a Ranieri still doesn't have two key jobs in his hands:
1. Getting the formation right without Kante
2. Motivating the players after they've "won it all"
These are my worries today. We don't just look like a team getting back up to speed, we look short on both tactics and belief. The first will come with time but the second needs addressing quickly or it can become a spiral.
So I'm happy for us to focus on the champions league but not at the cost of our league success.
Whilst I'm not panicking, there are a couple of worrying signs I want to see eradicated over the next few games.
The main one being the lack of fight in the players. I can forgive losing when we show that.
posted on 17/10/16
I said a similar thing about Ranieri will know what to do as he worked it out last season around this time. But I do feel that after the first 3 away defeats he should have realised and given ourselves the best chance on Saturday. But he didn't
posted on 17/10/16
It was something of a change on Saturday, playing (supposedly) defensively capable wide midfielders and his two fastest attackers up front to play on the counter. The thing is, having watched the match, I don't think it would have mattered what formation we played - the players as a squad weren't up for it enough. The mindset has to change, otherwise any tactical adjustments will just be akin to deckchair rearrangement.
posted on 17/10/16
Claudio may know who we are , but does he know we now have two teams.One plays in Europe, and looks similar to our title winning side, and the other looks like the side we had two years ago.
The second side looks un recognisable from the first , with a very shaky and weak defence, and the whole team seems to have no direction or understanding.
Watching Leicester in the legue at present is similar to watching England in the Euros.Clueless.
Lets hope Ranieri gets this sorted soon.
posted on 17/10/16
Again guys let's have some perspective. We have been thumped by 3 really good teams away from home who all no doubt had a point to prove against us after last season.
In general we have done what we needed to against the leagues lesser lights. Let's hope for 2 wins this week and all will be well again.
posted on 17/10/16
It would be very important to beat Copenhagen, imo.
The situation in the PL is far from alarming as things stand, but the CL is going to get much tougher in the k.o. rounds, requiring even greater attention than it has up to now if you mean to progress.
A victory against the Danes would give you a great cushion and might allow you to focus more on the PL for a while. It would be quite worrying if you hadn't put a fair bit of daylight between yourselves and the relegation battlers come February.
posted on 17/10/16
All points are very valid, answer is the enjoy the ride that is Leicester City in uncharted territory.
As Mersey pointed out on another thread, the WUMs can try all they like but we are Still the Champions of England!!
posted on 17/10/16
Nev
I concur with most of what you have said......
The thing to remember is that the vast majority of realistic LCFC supporters expected a mid table finish in the league ( maybe about 8th with a bit of luck) as the juggling of PL and CL was going to be a new experience for the majority of our players.
Yes we expanded the squad in the summer but we are still a mid table side ( as most of us have been saying, not expecting perfect storm of last season to happen again). It is obviously a difficult juggling act for a medium sized club to get the balancing act right in both competitions, and at the moment hopefully with a positive result his week we can safely say we have all but got out of our CL group. This was the minimum pre-requisite at the start of the campaign. Anything beyond this would be a bonus.
As for he PL campaign, YES it has started a lot slower than we all ( fans, manager, owners, players) would have liked but we have lost away to sides that I fully expect to finish in or around the Top 4 come May. But I still feel that we going to be safely ensconced in the next group mid table come the end of the season. We have a good squad, we have a bigger squad then before but we just need to gain a lot more of that self belief and energy on the pitch.
We know that the players all go out there and try every game, but we are just missing that 10% extra that makes all of the difference. This is down to CR to instill that mentality and belief and work ethic into the players sooner rather than later.
As for away from home formations, like some on here I have been calling for a 4-5-1 formation to attempt to shore things up, draw the oppositions defenders upfield marking only 1 forward and see if we can utilise our pacey counter attacking instinct again. I hope to see this sooner rather than later, but in the meantime this is a sticky patch in the league but we will get through this.
I just wish some supporters would have realistic expectations, but I suppose winning the PL last season has gone to their heads.
Lets just remember we are Leicester City, we aren't a massive club, we aren't going to finish top 4 this season, BUT Leicester City is OUR club and we just want to see more effort and passion, if we do then the results will start to turn for us.
UTF
posted on 17/10/16
^ yep, this.
posted on 17/10/16
I don't think they feel any less passion its just harder to keep that level up and soon we need to be good enough to win without having really on passion and spirit alone.
Let me give you analogy to the Fearless thing. During WW2 they used mainly first time troops on landings such as D,Day Anzio etc. Highly trained and with experienced NCO's. The reason for this is obvious the first timers would not hesitate or consider their actions based on previous experience of other landings.
Now our boys have experienced the great escape and now PL champions and have something to lose. In the CL its a fresh challenge and they play like it is.
posted on 18/10/16
Last season Ranieri picked a team and formation that worked, it suited the players we had but it doesn't suit the players we have now. Kante is a big loss but so is Okazaki. He might not have scored many but his work rate was very underestimated and has been overlooked.
I know Slimani cost a fortune but I think he should be on the bench and come on after Okazaki has run his socks off for an hour.
We have to approach every game individually by assessing the strengths of the opposition and picking a team and formation that will counter their threat. At the moment we're ignoring that and approaching every game the same and it's costing us. I think 4-4-2 will work against the lesser sides but not against the top teams. We need to be less predictable.
The teams we play now adjust their tactics to counter ours, we need to do the same back. After Liverpool and United first half I'd have thought that would be enough for him to see that we need five in midfield because second half against United we were the better team, even Mourinho admitted that. Going 4-4-2 at Chelsea was extremely naive and again we paid the price. Hopefully that will be the last time because if we go to Spurs and do the same we're going to lose again.
posted on 18/10/16
Agree with you my Antipodean friend Slimani off the bench unless you are playing both the long throw boys.
Musa off the bench for Vardy and Gray for Marhez
posted on 18/10/16
Said many times Europe takes it out of sides in their first campaign
You go from being able to have a tight squad of perhaps 14-16 players you use for every game, to having to expand it by at least 5 players of similar quality.
Once the CL breaks in December you will have an upturn in form I expect, a good couple of months without midweek distractions
posted on 18/10/16
I don't think it's so much the formation as the intensity we play at, too dangerous to let the top quality teams just have the ball, we need to get into them and work harder off the ball.
Liverpool did exactly that to us, they also did it last night to Man Utd, by doing this you stop them building up a head of steam.
Okazaki is the talisman for this, by dropping him from the team it immediately shows our way of playing.
posted on 18/10/16
comment by HRH King Ledley (U20095)
posted 53 minutes ago
Said many times Europe takes it out of sides in their first campaign
You go from being able to have a tight squad of perhaps 14-16 players you use for every game, to having to expand it by at least 5 players of similar quality.
Once the CL breaks in December you will have an upturn in form I expect, a good couple of months without midweek distractions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping our up turn in form comes before December with the fixtures we have coming up. Between now and the end of the year we play Tottenham away and Man City at home which we'll probably lose but the rest are against teams we should be looking at getting positive results against.
Palace, West Brom, Boro, Everton and West Ham at home and Watford, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Stoke away. It's a very good chance to put some points on the board and will probably end up shaping our season. Do well in these games and we'll push up the league, if we don't we'll be in for a struggle.
posted on 18/10/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/10/16
comment by Champions of England (U21032)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
I'm hoping our up turn in form comes before December with the fixtures we have coming up. Between now and the end of the year we play Tottenham away and Man City at home which we'll probably lose but the rest are against teams we should be looking at getting positive results against.
Palace, West Brom, Boro, Everton and West Ham at home and Watford, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Stoke away. It's a very good chance to put some points on the board and will probably end up shaping our season. Do well in these games and we'll push up the league, if we don't we'll be in for a struggle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. That's why I think winning tonight could be so crucial to your season.
5 points on second and at least 5 on third with 3 games to play would mean that you'd only need to beat Brugges at home in the final group game in order to qualify, possibly even top.
That would give you plnty of breathing space and enough games to cement a good league position in the months before the CL k.o. stage kicks in.
posted on 18/10/16
comment by Mourinho delenda est (U6426)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Champions of England (U21032)
posted 1 hour, 49 minutes ago
I'm hoping our up turn in form comes before December with the fixtures we have coming up. Between now and the end of the year we play Tottenham away and Man City at home which we'll probably lose but the rest are against teams we should be looking at getting positive results against.
Palace, West Brom, Boro, Everton and West Ham at home and Watford, Sunderland, Bournemouth and Stoke away. It's a very good chance to put some points on the board and will probably end up shaping our season. Do well in these games and we'll push up the league, if we don't we'll be in for a struggle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. That's why I think winning tonight could be so crucial to your season.
5 points on second and at least 5 on third with 3 games to play would mean that you'd only need to beat Brugges at home in the final group game in order to qualify, possibly even top.
That would give you plnty of breathing space and enough games to cement a good league position in the months before the CL k.o. stage kicks in.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah definitely. A win tonight and a point next game away to Copenhagen and it should be enough. Brugges are poor so we should be able to rest a few and still win which would be enough to top the group meaning Porto away won't mean anything. It is important that we win the group so hopefully we can do so asap so we can switch our focus back to the league.
posted on 18/10/16
Leicester City are playing in CL how they played in PL last season. Maybe underdog and a bit of luck suits them.
posted on 18/10/16
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 1 hour, 13 minutes ago
Leicester City are playing in CL how they played in PL last season. Maybe underdog and a bit of luck suits them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bit of luck? The luck went against us tonight when Slimani's goal was wrongly disallowed.
The real difference is the intensity in which we're playing but this is the competition we're prioritising as the league takes a back seat.
posted on 19/10/16
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 14 hours, 18 minutes ago
Leicester City are playing in CL how they played in PL last season. Maybe underdog and a bit of luck suits them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously didn't see the whole game as luck was one thing we didn't have tonight.
posted on 19/10/16
Congratulations on the win! You've got this one in the bag now.
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