"Not drawing any conclusions though"
Great article.
Couldn't even be bothered to write 'Discuss' at the end of the OP.
Yet 8 sides have conceded less goals
comment by CANuLEIVAorWIJNALDUMtrophies (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
Cheers hafi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even though my chelsea are low too, don't think this says much, doesn't show teams who just miss a cross and have a good positions etc
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet 8 sides have conceded less goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah strange one. But when you're top scorers I guess it's less of an issue
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet 8 sides have conceded less goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah strange one. But when you're top scorers I guess it's less of an issue
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stay on topic
Relax boys. I bring the stats, you bring the discussion
Said this a few times, clearly the defence as a whole isnt terrible what is however is the individual errors and defending of set pieces. And we are extremely unfortunate tbh that pretty much the first set piece or error we make in a game we are punished, even when we win the first header at a corner somehow it will hit a player behind fall perfectly for opposition player and they will score. You see players making errors and getting away with it quite often, same with set pieces teams fail to defend one but get away with it.
Look at hulls goal, mistake from milner gives corner poor control, we win the header its going out for throw but hits a hull player if i remember behind and it falls perfectly for Meiler. Lucas gifting Leicesters goal. Clynes gift vs Burnley and the 3 errors in a row. Moreno doing his best vs Arsenal to throw the game.
Making silly mistakes isn't acceptable neither is needlessly conceding set pieces when we don't have to, which we do quite a lot, Clyne for Chambers goal vs Arsenal for example, brilliant delivery and offside? but still no need to concede a free kick at all from Clyne. We are punished ruthlessly recently though a lot of the time teams get away with it, we've been punished almost every time.
Yeah we seem to enjoy conceding via stupid mistakes or a set piece, rarely do teams score a 'good' goal against us
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 10 minutes ago
Said this a few times, clearly the defence as a whole isnt terrible what is however is the individual errors and defending of set pieces. And we are extremely unfortunate tbh that pretty much the first set piece or error we make in a game we are punished, even when we win the first header at a corner somehow it will hit a player behind fall perfectly for opposition player and they will score. You see players making errors and getting away with it quite often, same with set pieces teams fail to defend one but get away with it.
Look at hulls goal, mistake from milner gives corner poor control, we win the header its going out for throw but hits a hull player if i remember behind and it falls perfectly for Meiler. Lucas gifting Leicesters goal. Clynes gift vs Burnley and the 3 errors in a row. Moreno doing his best vs Arsenal to throw the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and we keep hearing that we have poor defence
I'll discuss
It's a product of how we play, we hold onto the ball for prolonged periods against many sides therefore immediately restricting the amount of chances a side can have against us as they don't have the ball, LVG's united were the same in this respect.
Also the way we press, especially so high up the pitch means we regularly have a high number of turnovers again reducing the opportunity for a side to get a shot on goals against us.
It's actually not a shock to see this stat as it makes sense, allot of our defending is done with the ball if you get me, or in the first 10 seconds of us losing possession.
But you have a terrible defence I hear them cry!
Well we don't have a terrible one but it's certainly not brilliant my any means. The goals we concede are down to 2 main reason IMO, defending set pieces has been an issue for us for years, it's not specific to Klopp, we conceded several set piece goals so far, this, for me, isn't a reflection on our defensive system, it's a product of lapses in concentration or the opposition targeting areas they see a weakness in, also a bit of bad luck too, like take the goal v West Brom, offside and it fell perfectly to the lad, 9 times out of 10 that ball doesn't fall so perfectly, personally not too worried about this, think plenty of teams have similar issues and in the PL you face teams who are simply really good at set pieces and can hurt you from them, also overall we're not a very tall team, this will have an impact when defending set pieces.
Secondly we have issues if we give up possession cheaply, as the system means the full backs push on, if one of our centre backs or say Henderson gives the ball away inside our half we're in trouble as a team can spring a counter and end up with either extra men running at our centre backs or at least a 2 on 2 situation.
This added to basic lapses in concentration have led to us conceding too many soft goals, we've had this problem for a while again not exclusive to Klopp.
However if you look at the numbers we're improving albeit slowly. Matip has made a difference both aerially from set pieces and also in terms of his concentration levels being better than say Skertl or Toure / Sakho for example. Karius too has begun to make a difference as his starting position is naturally higher, this in turn pushes our centre backs further up and so we're defending from a higher starting position and therefore allowing us more time to get back into a defensive shape when countered on.
Also I think it's always worth pointing out that there is always 2 teams involved in a game and in the PL the opposition will nearly always create some chances to score, even when you dominate, like we did v Watford, a PL side will have some chances, while we did concede v Watford we also defended well in other situations where they attacked us, Karius mad a few decent saves.
When you're 5-0 up a lapse in concentration and/or aggression can be expected, what we need to ensure is when the game is tight we do our best to maintain the highest levels of concentration and not give away cheap goals like we did twice v Palace for example.
Mistakes will happen, I'm not overly concerned with that, the Lovren mistake for the first palace goal, nothing much Klopp or the rest of the defence can do about that. Lovren showed character to get the equaliser so that was great to see.
Overall we’re not as bad as made out at the back but we’ve plenty of room for improvement (and our fans tend to be a bit too defensive when defending the defence ), so many pundits are throwing away remarks that you can’t win a title conceding so many goals while neglecting to point out that really the defence has not cost us points so far this season bar Burnley, we had more than enough shots to still win that game but we panicked, tried to force the issue by trying to score two goals in two mins, we’ve been much more patient in our build up since.
When we’ve given up a cheap goal we’ve generally answered the test, Arsenal getting us back to 3-4, West Brom making it 2-1, giving Palace two equalizers or Chelsea pulling it back to 1-2, each time we’ve done this we’ve seen the game out to win. Something only 12 months ago we didn’t have in our locker.
I'll discuss
It's a product of how we play, we hold onto the ball for prolonged periods against many sides therefore immediately restricting the amount of chances a side can have against us as they don't have the ball, LVG's united were the same in this respect.
Also the way we press, especially so high up the pitch means we regularly have a high number of turnovers again reducing the opportunity for a side to get a shot on goals against us.
It's actually not a shock to see this stat as it makes sense, allot of our defending is done with the ball if you get me, or in the first 10 seconds of us losing possession.
But you have a terrible defence I hear them cry!
Well we don't have a terrible one but it's certainly not brilliant my any means. The goals we concede are down to 2 main reason IMO, defending set pieces has been an issue for us for years, it's not specific to Klopp, we conceded several set piece goals so far, this, for me, isn't a reflection on our defensive system, it's a product of lapses in concentration or the opposition targeting areas they see a weakness in, also a bit of bad luck too, like take the goal v West Brom, offside and it fell perfectly to the lad, 9 times out of 10 that ball doesn't fall so perfectly, personally not too worried about this, think plenty of teams have similar issues and in the PL you face teams who are simply really good at set pieces and can hurt you from them, also overall we're not a very tall team, this will have an impact when defending set pieces.
Secondly we have issues if we give up possession cheaply, as the system means the full backs push on, if one of our centre backs or say Henderson gives the ball away inside our half we're in trouble as a team can spring a counter and end up with either extra men running at our centre backs or at least a 2 on 2 situation.
This added to basic lapses in concentration have led to us conceding too many soft goals, we've had this problem for a while again not exclusive to Klopp.
However if you look at the numbers we're improving albeit slowly. Matip has made a difference both aerially from set pieces and also in terms of his concentration levels being better than say Skertl or Toure / Sakho for example. Karius too has begun to make a difference as his starting position is naturally higher, this in turn pushes our centre backs further up and so we're defending from a higher starting position and therefore allowing us more time to get back into a defensive shape when countered on.
Also I think it's always worth pointing out that there is always 2 teams involved in a game and in the PL the opposition will nearly always create some chances to score, even when you dominate, like we did v Watford, a PL side will have some chances, while we did concede v Watford we also defended well in other situations where they attacked us, Karius mad a few decent saves.
When you're 5-0 up a lapse in concentration and/or aggression can be expected, what we need to ensure is when the game is tight we do our best to maintain the highest levels of concentration and not give away cheap goals like we did twice v Palace for example.
Mistakes will happen, I'm not overly concerned with that, the Lovren mistake for the first palace goal, nothing much Klopp or the rest of the defence can do about that. Lovren showed character to get the equaliser so that was great to see.
Overall we’re not as bad as made out at the back but we’ve plenty of room for improvement (and our fans tend to be a bit too defensive when defending the defence ), so many pundits are throwing away remarks that you can’t win a title conceding so many goals while neglecting to point out that really the defence has not cost us points so far this season bar Burnley, we had more than enough shots to still win that game but we panicked, tried to force the issue by trying to score two goals in two mins, we’ve been much more patient in our build up since.
When we’ve given up a cheap goal we’ve generally answered the test, Arsenal getting us back to 3-4, West Brom making it 2-1, giving Palace two equalizers or Chelsea pulling it back to 1-2, each time we’ve done this we’ve seen the game out to win. Something only 12 months ago we didn’t have in our locker.
---------------------------------------------------------
This
When we are 5-0 vs Watford we are still committing 5/6 players into their box in open play! Chapman said it the other day, someone highlighted we brought Lucas on to see the game out and within minutes he was in the opposition box .
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
When we are 5-0 vs Watford we are still committing 5/6 players into their box in open play! Chapman said it the other day, someone highlighted we brought Lucas on to see the game out and within minutes he was in the opposition box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conceding goals is a byproduct of how we play, but if we're conceding the odd goal while scoring on average just under 3 a game I'll take that all day.
Plus we can get better at the back both individually and as a unit, scary to think what our attack can develop into when we've scored 30 goals in 11 games!
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'll discuss
It's a product of how we play, we hold onto the ball for prolonged periods against many sides therefore immediately restricting the amount of chances a side can have against us as they don't have the ball, LVG's united were the same in this respect.
Also the way we press, especially so high up the pitch means we regularly have a high number of turnovers again reducing the opportunity for a side to get a shot on goals against us.
It's actually not a shock to see this stat as it makes sense, allot of our defending is done with the ball if you get me, or in the first 10 seconds of us losing possession.
But you have a terrible defence I hear them cry!
Well we don't have a terrible one but it's certainly not brilliant my any means. The goals we concede are down to 2 main reason IMO, defending set pieces has been an issue for us for years, it's not specific to Klopp, we conceded several set piece goals so far, this, for me, isn't a reflection on our defensive system, it's a product of lapses in concentration or the opposition targeting areas they see a weakness in, also a bit of bad luck too, like take the goal v West Brom, offside and it fell perfectly to the lad, 9 times out of 10 that ball doesn't fall so perfectly, personally not too worried about this, think plenty of teams have similar issues and in the PL you face teams who are simply really good at set pieces and can hurt you from them, also overall we're not a very tall team, this will have an impact when defending set pieces.
Secondly we have issues if we give up possession cheaply, as the system means the full backs push on, if one of our centre backs or say Henderson gives the ball away inside our half we're in trouble as a team can spring a counter and end up with either extra men running at our centre backs or at least a 2 on 2 situation.
This added to basic lapses in concentration have led to us conceding too many soft goals, we've had this problem for a while again not exclusive to Klopp.
However if you look at the numbers we're improving albeit slowly. Matip has made a difference both aerially from set pieces and also in terms of his concentration levels being better than say Skertl or Toure / Sakho for example. Karius too has begun to make a difference as his starting position is naturally higher, this in turn pushes our centre backs further up and so we're defending from a higher starting position and therefore allowing us more time to get back into a defensive shape when countered on.
Also I think it's always worth pointing out that there is always 2 teams involved in a game and in the PL the opposition will nearly always create some chances to score, even when you dominate, like we did v Watford, a PL side will have some chances, while we did concede v Watford we also defended well in other situations where they attacked us, Karius mad a few decent saves.
When you're 5-0 up a lapse in concentration and/or aggression can be expected, what we need to ensure is when the game is tight we do our best to maintain the highest levels of concentration and not give away cheap goals like we did twice v Palace for example.
Mistakes will happen, I'm not overly concerned with that, the Lovren mistake for the first palace goal, nothing much Klopp or the rest of the defence can do about that. Lovren showed character to get the equaliser so that was great to see.
Overall we’re not as bad as made out at the back but we’ve plenty of room for improvement (and our fans tend to be a bit too defensive when defending the defence), so many pundits are throwing away remarks that you can’t win a title conceding so many goals while neglecting to point out that really the defence has not cost us points so far this season bar Burnley, we had more than enough shots to still win that game but we panicked, tried to force the issue by trying to score two goals in two mins, we’ve been much more patient in our build up since.
When we’ve given up a cheap goal we’ve generally answered the test, Arsenal getting us back to 3-4, West Brom making it 2-1, giving Palace two equalizers or Chelsea pulling it back to 1-2, each time we’ve done this we’ve seen the game out to win. Something only 12 months ago we didn’t have in our locker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
good god a sensible comment
given the amount of possession we have racked up i am not surprised
Those are "real chances" though IMO. we are not really seeing many pot shots for 30 yards being allowed by klopp's system
but yeah we have given a lot of cheap goals and goals of second ball at set piece. I mean look at lucas's virtual own goal, or lovern's effort...
IMO despite the high press we see 4 guys back like matip, lovren henderson.. one other cm.. we do not just flood forward and while we have highest goals scored we don't look like throwing too many in... right up until we see a total mess like lovren or lucas for example
Set piece is a worry to me but general play is not a concern. I doubt we've let in all that much off general play barring total moronic issue as per the goals i've mentioned.
teams just aint beating us for sport out wide or dominating us.
Maybe I'm being too biased here but really think it's very lazy for a pundit to simply say "you can't win the league giving up goals like this" they never actually back it up to show we've lost points etc because of this. Or looking at the type of goal, or the fact that we conceded a number of the goals in theopening few games before Matip and then Karius came into the back 4.
I don't want them to say we're some super defensive unit or anything but at least offer clear reasons as to why they think it could cost us the league.
We could score 100+ goals and not win the league, i guess it depends on how the goals are spread out, if you hit 3 everyone game youll likely win, but if you have a load of 5-0s then only score 1 or 2 in the others games youll likely drop alot more points, the real test will come when our attack has an off day and its up to the defence to not let a 1 goal advantage slip, but this is just me spouting random things..
It means our defence isn't bad but keepers are. Other top teams have one or two good keepers like Arsenal. We have none.
But the goals we concede arent just due to the keeper messing up all the time, its defenders making mistakes aswell, guess you can blame both really
Spurs have the best defence in the league, as they did last season as well. Not one Liverpool defender would make the best defence in the league.
comment by sandy, senior citizen, but young at heart (U20567)
posted 23 minutes ago
Spurs have the best defence in the league, as they did last season as well. Not one Liverpool defender would make the best defence in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Spurs have the best defensive unit in the league, however Clyne over Walker would be an obvious improvement, individually. As a unit I'd keep Walker in as Spurs have a solid centre, in defence and in the middle with Dembele and Wanyama, so full backs better in attack are of most benefit to the team as a whole.
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Shots conceded per game by PL teams
Page 1 of 2
posted on 8/11/16
"Not drawing any conclusions though"
Great article.
posted on 8/11/16
Cheers hafi
posted on 8/11/16
Couldn't even be bothered to write 'Discuss' at the end of the OP.
posted on 8/11/16
Yet 8 sides have conceded less goals
posted on 8/11/16
comment by CANuLEIVAorWIJNALDUMtrophies (U18359)
posted 5 minutes ago
Cheers hafi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 8/11/16
Even though my chelsea are low too, don't think this says much, doesn't show teams who just miss a cross and have a good positions etc
posted on 8/11/16
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet 8 sides have conceded less goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah strange one. But when you're top scorers I guess it's less of an issue
posted on 8/11/16
comment by Firmino's Brightest Tooth (U1217)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Bobby Dazzler (U1449)
posted 2 minutes ago
Yet 8 sides have conceded less goals
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah strange one. But when you're top scorers I guess it's less of an issue
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please stay on topic
posted on 8/11/16
Relax boys. I bring the stats, you bring the discussion
posted on 8/11/16
Said this a few times, clearly the defence as a whole isnt terrible what is however is the individual errors and defending of set pieces. And we are extremely unfortunate tbh that pretty much the first set piece or error we make in a game we are punished, even when we win the first header at a corner somehow it will hit a player behind fall perfectly for opposition player and they will score. You see players making errors and getting away with it quite often, same with set pieces teams fail to defend one but get away with it.
Look at hulls goal, mistake from milner gives corner poor control, we win the header its going out for throw but hits a hull player if i remember behind and it falls perfectly for Meiler. Lucas gifting Leicesters goal. Clynes gift vs Burnley and the 3 errors in a row. Moreno doing his best vs Arsenal to throw the game.
posted on 8/11/16
Making silly mistakes isn't acceptable neither is needlessly conceding set pieces when we don't have to, which we do quite a lot, Clyne for Chambers goal vs Arsenal for example, brilliant delivery and offside? but still no need to concede a free kick at all from Clyne. We are punished ruthlessly recently though a lot of the time teams get away with it, we've been punished almost every time.
posted on 8/11/16
Yeah we seem to enjoy conceding via stupid mistakes or a set piece, rarely do teams score a 'good' goal against us
posted on 8/11/16
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 10 minutes ago
Said this a few times, clearly the defence as a whole isnt terrible what is however is the individual errors and defending of set pieces. And we are extremely unfortunate tbh that pretty much the first set piece or error we make in a game we are punished, even when we win the first header at a corner somehow it will hit a player behind fall perfectly for opposition player and they will score. You see players making errors and getting away with it quite often, same with set pieces teams fail to defend one but get away with it.
Look at hulls goal, mistake from milner gives corner poor control, we win the header its going out for throw but hits a hull player if i remember behind and it falls perfectly for Meiler. Lucas gifting Leicesters goal. Clynes gift vs Burnley and the 3 errors in a row. Moreno doing his best vs Arsenal to throw the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
and we keep hearing that we have poor defence
posted on 8/11/16
I'll discuss
It's a product of how we play, we hold onto the ball for prolonged periods against many sides therefore immediately restricting the amount of chances a side can have against us as they don't have the ball, LVG's united were the same in this respect.
Also the way we press, especially so high up the pitch means we regularly have a high number of turnovers again reducing the opportunity for a side to get a shot on goals against us.
It's actually not a shock to see this stat as it makes sense, allot of our defending is done with the ball if you get me, or in the first 10 seconds of us losing possession.
But you have a terrible defence I hear them cry!
Well we don't have a terrible one but it's certainly not brilliant my any means. The goals we concede are down to 2 main reason IMO, defending set pieces has been an issue for us for years, it's not specific to Klopp, we conceded several set piece goals so far, this, for me, isn't a reflection on our defensive system, it's a product of lapses in concentration or the opposition targeting areas they see a weakness in, also a bit of bad luck too, like take the goal v West Brom, offside and it fell perfectly to the lad, 9 times out of 10 that ball doesn't fall so perfectly, personally not too worried about this, think plenty of teams have similar issues and in the PL you face teams who are simply really good at set pieces and can hurt you from them, also overall we're not a very tall team, this will have an impact when defending set pieces.
Secondly we have issues if we give up possession cheaply, as the system means the full backs push on, if one of our centre backs or say Henderson gives the ball away inside our half we're in trouble as a team can spring a counter and end up with either extra men running at our centre backs or at least a 2 on 2 situation.
This added to basic lapses in concentration have led to us conceding too many soft goals, we've had this problem for a while again not exclusive to Klopp.
However if you look at the numbers we're improving albeit slowly. Matip has made a difference both aerially from set pieces and also in terms of his concentration levels being better than say Skertl or Toure / Sakho for example. Karius too has begun to make a difference as his starting position is naturally higher, this in turn pushes our centre backs further up and so we're defending from a higher starting position and therefore allowing us more time to get back into a defensive shape when countered on.
Also I think it's always worth pointing out that there is always 2 teams involved in a game and in the PL the opposition will nearly always create some chances to score, even when you dominate, like we did v Watford, a PL side will have some chances, while we did concede v Watford we also defended well in other situations where they attacked us, Karius mad a few decent saves.
When you're 5-0 up a lapse in concentration and/or aggression can be expected, what we need to ensure is when the game is tight we do our best to maintain the highest levels of concentration and not give away cheap goals like we did twice v Palace for example.
Mistakes will happen, I'm not overly concerned with that, the Lovren mistake for the first palace goal, nothing much Klopp or the rest of the defence can do about that. Lovren showed character to get the equaliser so that was great to see.
Overall we’re not as bad as made out at the back but we’ve plenty of room for improvement (and our fans tend to be a bit too defensive when defending the defence ), so many pundits are throwing away remarks that you can’t win a title conceding so many goals while neglecting to point out that really the defence has not cost us points so far this season bar Burnley, we had more than enough shots to still win that game but we panicked, tried to force the issue by trying to score two goals in two mins, we’ve been much more patient in our build up since.
When we’ve given up a cheap goal we’ve generally answered the test, Arsenal getting us back to 3-4, West Brom making it 2-1, giving Palace two equalizers or Chelsea pulling it back to 1-2, each time we’ve done this we’ve seen the game out to win. Something only 12 months ago we didn’t have in our locker.
posted on 8/11/16
I'll discuss
It's a product of how we play, we hold onto the ball for prolonged periods against many sides therefore immediately restricting the amount of chances a side can have against us as they don't have the ball, LVG's united were the same in this respect.
Also the way we press, especially so high up the pitch means we regularly have a high number of turnovers again reducing the opportunity for a side to get a shot on goals against us.
It's actually not a shock to see this stat as it makes sense, allot of our defending is done with the ball if you get me, or in the first 10 seconds of us losing possession.
But you have a terrible defence I hear them cry!
Well we don't have a terrible one but it's certainly not brilliant my any means. The goals we concede are down to 2 main reason IMO, defending set pieces has been an issue for us for years, it's not specific to Klopp, we conceded several set piece goals so far, this, for me, isn't a reflection on our defensive system, it's a product of lapses in concentration or the opposition targeting areas they see a weakness in, also a bit of bad luck too, like take the goal v West Brom, offside and it fell perfectly to the lad, 9 times out of 10 that ball doesn't fall so perfectly, personally not too worried about this, think plenty of teams have similar issues and in the PL you face teams who are simply really good at set pieces and can hurt you from them, also overall we're not a very tall team, this will have an impact when defending set pieces.
Secondly we have issues if we give up possession cheaply, as the system means the full backs push on, if one of our centre backs or say Henderson gives the ball away inside our half we're in trouble as a team can spring a counter and end up with either extra men running at our centre backs or at least a 2 on 2 situation.
This added to basic lapses in concentration have led to us conceding too many soft goals, we've had this problem for a while again not exclusive to Klopp.
However if you look at the numbers we're improving albeit slowly. Matip has made a difference both aerially from set pieces and also in terms of his concentration levels being better than say Skertl or Toure / Sakho for example. Karius too has begun to make a difference as his starting position is naturally higher, this in turn pushes our centre backs further up and so we're defending from a higher starting position and therefore allowing us more time to get back into a defensive shape when countered on.
Also I think it's always worth pointing out that there is always 2 teams involved in a game and in the PL the opposition will nearly always create some chances to score, even when you dominate, like we did v Watford, a PL side will have some chances, while we did concede v Watford we also defended well in other situations where they attacked us, Karius mad a few decent saves.
When you're 5-0 up a lapse in concentration and/or aggression can be expected, what we need to ensure is when the game is tight we do our best to maintain the highest levels of concentration and not give away cheap goals like we did twice v Palace for example.
Mistakes will happen, I'm not overly concerned with that, the Lovren mistake for the first palace goal, nothing much Klopp or the rest of the defence can do about that. Lovren showed character to get the equaliser so that was great to see.
Overall we’re not as bad as made out at the back but we’ve plenty of room for improvement (and our fans tend to be a bit too defensive when defending the defence ), so many pundits are throwing away remarks that you can’t win a title conceding so many goals while neglecting to point out that really the defence has not cost us points so far this season bar Burnley, we had more than enough shots to still win that game but we panicked, tried to force the issue by trying to score two goals in two mins, we’ve been much more patient in our build up since.
When we’ve given up a cheap goal we’ve generally answered the test, Arsenal getting us back to 3-4, West Brom making it 2-1, giving Palace two equalizers or Chelsea pulling it back to 1-2, each time we’ve done this we’ve seen the game out to win. Something only 12 months ago we didn’t have in our locker.
---------------------------------------------------------
This
posted on 8/11/16
When we are 5-0 vs Watford we are still committing 5/6 players into their box in open play! Chapman said it the other day, someone highlighted we brought Lucas on to see the game out and within minutes he was in the opposition box .
posted on 8/11/16
comment by Inbefore (U20589)
posted 2 minutes ago
When we are 5-0 vs Watford we are still committing 5/6 players into their box in open play! Chapman said it the other day, someone highlighted we brought Lucas on to see the game out and within minutes he was in the opposition box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Conceding goals is a byproduct of how we play, but if we're conceding the odd goal while scoring on average just under 3 a game I'll take that all day.
Plus we can get better at the back both individually and as a unit, scary to think what our attack can develop into when we've scored 30 goals in 11 games!
posted on 8/11/16
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'll discuss
It's a product of how we play, we hold onto the ball for prolonged periods against many sides therefore immediately restricting the amount of chances a side can have against us as they don't have the ball, LVG's united were the same in this respect.
Also the way we press, especially so high up the pitch means we regularly have a high number of turnovers again reducing the opportunity for a side to get a shot on goals against us.
It's actually not a shock to see this stat as it makes sense, allot of our defending is done with the ball if you get me, or in the first 10 seconds of us losing possession.
But you have a terrible defence I hear them cry!
Well we don't have a terrible one but it's certainly not brilliant my any means. The goals we concede are down to 2 main reason IMO, defending set pieces has been an issue for us for years, it's not specific to Klopp, we conceded several set piece goals so far, this, for me, isn't a reflection on our defensive system, it's a product of lapses in concentration or the opposition targeting areas they see a weakness in, also a bit of bad luck too, like take the goal v West Brom, offside and it fell perfectly to the lad, 9 times out of 10 that ball doesn't fall so perfectly, personally not too worried about this, think plenty of teams have similar issues and in the PL you face teams who are simply really good at set pieces and can hurt you from them, also overall we're not a very tall team, this will have an impact when defending set pieces.
Secondly we have issues if we give up possession cheaply, as the system means the full backs push on, if one of our centre backs or say Henderson gives the ball away inside our half we're in trouble as a team can spring a counter and end up with either extra men running at our centre backs or at least a 2 on 2 situation.
This added to basic lapses in concentration have led to us conceding too many soft goals, we've had this problem for a while again not exclusive to Klopp.
However if you look at the numbers we're improving albeit slowly. Matip has made a difference both aerially from set pieces and also in terms of his concentration levels being better than say Skertl or Toure / Sakho for example. Karius too has begun to make a difference as his starting position is naturally higher, this in turn pushes our centre backs further up and so we're defending from a higher starting position and therefore allowing us more time to get back into a defensive shape when countered on.
Also I think it's always worth pointing out that there is always 2 teams involved in a game and in the PL the opposition will nearly always create some chances to score, even when you dominate, like we did v Watford, a PL side will have some chances, while we did concede v Watford we also defended well in other situations where they attacked us, Karius mad a few decent saves.
When you're 5-0 up a lapse in concentration and/or aggression can be expected, what we need to ensure is when the game is tight we do our best to maintain the highest levels of concentration and not give away cheap goals like we did twice v Palace for example.
Mistakes will happen, I'm not overly concerned with that, the Lovren mistake for the first palace goal, nothing much Klopp or the rest of the defence can do about that. Lovren showed character to get the equaliser so that was great to see.
Overall we’re not as bad as made out at the back but we’ve plenty of room for improvement (and our fans tend to be a bit too defensive when defending the defence), so many pundits are throwing away remarks that you can’t win a title conceding so many goals while neglecting to point out that really the defence has not cost us points so far this season bar Burnley, we had more than enough shots to still win that game but we panicked, tried to force the issue by trying to score two goals in two mins, we’ve been much more patient in our build up since.
When we’ve given up a cheap goal we’ve generally answered the test, Arsenal getting us back to 3-4, West Brom making it 2-1, giving Palace two equalizers or Chelsea pulling it back to 1-2, each time we’ve done this we’ve seen the game out to win. Something only 12 months ago we didn’t have in our locker.
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good god a sensible comment
posted on 8/11/16
given the amount of possession we have racked up i am not surprised
Those are "real chances" though IMO. we are not really seeing many pot shots for 30 yards being allowed by klopp's system
but yeah we have given a lot of cheap goals and goals of second ball at set piece. I mean look at lucas's virtual own goal, or lovern's effort...
IMO despite the high press we see 4 guys back like matip, lovren henderson.. one other cm.. we do not just flood forward and while we have highest goals scored we don't look like throwing too many in... right up until we see a total mess like lovren or lucas for example
Set piece is a worry to me but general play is not a concern. I doubt we've let in all that much off general play barring total moronic issue as per the goals i've mentioned.
teams just aint beating us for sport out wide or dominating us.
posted on 8/11/16
Maybe I'm being too biased here but really think it's very lazy for a pundit to simply say "you can't win the league giving up goals like this" they never actually back it up to show we've lost points etc because of this. Or looking at the type of goal, or the fact that we conceded a number of the goals in theopening few games before Matip and then Karius came into the back 4.
I don't want them to say we're some super defensive unit or anything but at least offer clear reasons as to why they think it could cost us the league.
posted on 8/11/16
We could score 100+ goals and not win the league, i guess it depends on how the goals are spread out, if you hit 3 everyone game youll likely win, but if you have a load of 5-0s then only score 1 or 2 in the others games youll likely drop alot more points, the real test will come when our attack has an off day and its up to the defence to not let a 1 goal advantage slip, but this is just me spouting random things..
posted on 8/11/16
It means our defence isn't bad but keepers are. Other top teams have one or two good keepers like Arsenal. We have none.
posted on 8/11/16
But the goals we concede arent just due to the keeper messing up all the time, its defenders making mistakes aswell, guess you can blame both really
posted on 8/11/16
Spurs have the best defence in the league, as they did last season as well. Not one Liverpool defender would make the best defence in the league.
posted on 8/11/16
comment by sandy, senior citizen, but young at heart (U20567)
posted 23 minutes ago
Spurs have the best defence in the league, as they did last season as well. Not one Liverpool defender would make the best defence in the league.
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I agree Spurs have the best defensive unit in the league, however Clyne over Walker would be an obvious improvement, individually. As a unit I'd keep Walker in as Spurs have a solid centre, in defence and in the middle with Dembele and Wanyama, so full backs better in attack are of most benefit to the team as a whole.
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