The difference between the two teams was the spin bowling, India`s is first class and suited to these pitches, England`s is average and inexperienced on the roads of India.
The many awful shots by the England batsmen were created by their inability to handle the Indian spinners. There were very few rash shots from the Indian batsmen as they were so comfortable against the England bowling.
Put the two teams in English conditions and the results would be reversed.
Series rating for England players??
Cook - 3
Hammed - 7.5
Jennings - 6
Root - 6.5
Bairstow - 6
Ali - 5 only because of his 2 tons
Stokes - 4.5
Buttler - 5
Rashid - 6.5
Anderson - 3
Woakes - 3
Broad - 5
Ball / Ansari / Batty 3
Duckett - 2
well done India..Very poor from England.. was expecting it though..Shouldnt have collapsed and lost.. But we have seen it with most teams even in football.When a manager is under pressure the entire team fail until the manager is sacked..
If Cook had the proper thinking he would step down now. But Cook hardly ever makes the right calls.. So I expect him to remain.. England need a fresh approach and a new start.. if Cook remains things will just plod along until he finally does step down.
If England find it difficult here, they are definately going to struggle on Australian pitches which are also very flat. England need outright pacers to make an impact in aus conditions. It's why SA were so good there.
England have a lot to think about in terms of their batting as well. How can you have an all rounder batting at 4 and a wk who has been on the field keeping bat at 5? And then bring a specialist bat in buttler at 6. I would have their batting in the following order: cook, hameed, Jennings , root, bairstow, buttler(wk), and then the rest.
Cook will do himself a world of good by just working on his batting going forward. I don't think he is adding much value as a captain to be very honest and it really is impacting his batting more often than not. England would really want to have a strong cook batting in the Ashes, then someone carrying a burden of captaincy
The difference between India and Australia when it comes to flat pitches. England should get more runs..
you'd hope so anyway.Most non subcontinent teams in the subcontinent find it very difficult to score quick enough.
India will have problems away from home.. Getting 2 spinners into the 11 without weaking the batting.. ok playing 2/3 spinners in India. you need at least 3 seam bowlers in most countries outside Asia,
England would have done better if our spinners had of preformed better.. Last series we won was prime example..Swann and Panesar.
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Comment deleted by Site Moderator
England need to stop this monkeying about with Ali as the main spinner, he just not good enough, either play him as a batter or dont play him at all. I'd give Rashid a few series in england before completely jettisoning him.
You can't just keep wheeling him out when they tour asia how is he meant to get used to test cricket and get better? Hes bowling against batters who take spin bowlers apart in home conditions.
Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Butler (WK) Rashid, Broad, Anderson, Woakes.
Id like to see that team for a few tests and see how they go. If Jonny keeps the gloves you could put Alii in for butler at 5. Need to stop this nonsense of him being englands no1 spinner.
I have seen many pundits say in 2017 we start travelling away. Which tours do they mean? According to future tours program we are only scheduled to play SL and then there isn't anymore test series as the Pak series ain't happening.
Just looking at this last series in isolation, what was Stokes purpose?
comment by U2 (U20610)
posted 27 minutes ago
Just looking at this last series in isolation, what was Stokes purpose?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be a very brave man to leave him out.
Ha Cook is named captain in the ICC team of the year.. what a laugh. I think even the ICC are eve taking the piss..Kohli is obviously the obvious choice.
Just wait until summer.....we'll lose by a lot less on our pitches....
Rashid took 22 wickets and I bet he averaged like 40 a wicket. hes too expensive and totally unreliable.
I just look at his stats he's average 43 a wicket and goes at nearly 4 an over..
he's not up to it.. Anyway we don't need 2 spinners in England in fact we saw in India our seamers hardly got a bowl.
If England produce dry wickets at home. They deserve to lose.. we win games when our seamers are in the mix.
Stokes is not a number 6..Its the mind set of programmed cricket England play.. Oh ben stokes. world class. bats 6s and bowls well. ermm this idol worshipping of Stokes. his record doesn't actually stand up to it..I would play him 7 and bat Mooen 6..
Stokes averaged a tad under 40 which for your number 6 is very decent.
Not sure why he seems to be the fall guy when England do badly.
It's such an English mentality to have a go at our best players.
England lost because our spin bowling is rubbish. Forget the collapses. England's second innings scores were actually competitive scores for 3rd/4th innings in India (look at the stats).
It's the fact our spin bowlers are rubbish and allowed them to rack up 700 etc that lost us the series.
That's where averages can be misleading.. you can score 250 and fail 5/6 times in a row after than and your still averaging.
A bit like Nair who according to the Indian's is now the best batsman in the world behind Kohli...
Stokes has a decent series for my likening. He scored a ton, which really rescued us from a bad spot, a 70 odd and had a number of starts too. He didn't fail too many times.
For me your number 6 should be someone who plays aggressively and has the potential to counter attack and take the game Away from the opposition. That's why I don't think we should be expecting Stokes to average in the mid 40's.
Look at Flintoff. He was more inconsistent with the bat.
Flintoff was a better bowler and vice-versa Stokes is the better batter
I prefer my number who can do both attack and defend.
If Stokes gets more runs at 6 then I wont complain..He just fails to much for my liking.
Rashid took 22 wickets and I bet he averaged like 40 a wicket. hes too expensive and totally unreliable.
I just look at his stats he's average 43 a wicket and goes at nearly 4 an over..
he's not up to it.. Anyway we don't need 2 spinners in England in fact we saw in India our seamers hardly got a bowl.
---------------
Rashid may not be the answer as england spin bowler but i guarantee Ali is not the answer either as prooved with his bowling in the past 3 years.
Just pick a freaking spin bowler who can take wickets none of this stupid oh he can bat abit lets pick him.
Leech may have questions over his action but he looks to have resolved them. He should be selected and given a chance to get used to test cricket. Absolutely no point in selecting spin bowlers to play in Asia and when they do poorly (against the best players of spin) england just jettison them and say oh look he failed.
Rashid avarages 40ish but hes bowled against Pakistan and India in asia. these guys are the best there is against spin. Give him a go against SA/Aus/NZ ect who lets face it arent as good.
Thing the focus will come down on the Moeen then..He will just be in the team for his batting.. if you pick a front line spinner. You will have only have 3 seam bowlers one of them being Stokes.I want stokes to be 4th choice.
I don't have a problem preparing results wickets for our seamers... Unless the weather is going to be sunny and warm for a test match in England.. you wont need 2 spinners..
England should prepare wickets with grass on them..your in the game with your bowlers then.. England never looked like bowling India out
Infact England only took 7 wickets in the final test..
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root (c)
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (wkt)
Woakes/Wood
Rayner
Broad
Anderson
I really think Anderson will struggle in aus like he did in the last ashes down under. His pace has come considerably down and if the aus pitches offer no lateral movement he will struggle big time.
I think wood and woakes are going to be England's best bet in the current scenario and England will want to manage this 2 well before the ashes tour.
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England v India thread
Page 47 of 48
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posted on 20/12/16
The difference between the two teams was the spin bowling, India`s is first class and suited to these pitches, England`s is average and inexperienced on the roads of India.
The many awful shots by the England batsmen were created by their inability to handle the Indian spinners. There were very few rash shots from the Indian batsmen as they were so comfortable against the England bowling.
Put the two teams in English conditions and the results would be reversed.
posted on 20/12/16
Series rating for England players??
Cook - 3
Hammed - 7.5
Jennings - 6
Root - 6.5
Bairstow - 6
Ali - 5 only because of his 2 tons
Stokes - 4.5
Buttler - 5
Rashid - 6.5
Anderson - 3
Woakes - 3
Broad - 5
Ball / Ansari / Batty 3
Duckett - 2
posted on 20/12/16
well done India..Very poor from England.. was expecting it though..Shouldnt have collapsed and lost.. But we have seen it with most teams even in football.When a manager is under pressure the entire team fail until the manager is sacked..
If Cook had the proper thinking he would step down now. But Cook hardly ever makes the right calls.. So I expect him to remain.. England need a fresh approach and a new start.. if Cook remains things will just plod along until he finally does step down.
posted on 20/12/16
If England find it difficult here, they are definately going to struggle on Australian pitches which are also very flat. England need outright pacers to make an impact in aus conditions. It's why SA were so good there.
England have a lot to think about in terms of their batting as well. How can you have an all rounder batting at 4 and a wk who has been on the field keeping bat at 5? And then bring a specialist bat in buttler at 6. I would have their batting in the following order: cook, hameed, Jennings , root, bairstow, buttler(wk), and then the rest.
posted on 20/12/16
Cook will do himself a world of good by just working on his batting going forward. I don't think he is adding much value as a captain to be very honest and it really is impacting his batting more often than not. England would really want to have a strong cook batting in the Ashes, then someone carrying a burden of captaincy
posted on 20/12/16
The difference between India and Australia when it comes to flat pitches. England should get more runs..
you'd hope so anyway.Most non subcontinent teams in the subcontinent find it very difficult to score quick enough.
India will have problems away from home.. Getting 2 spinners into the 11 without weaking the batting.. ok playing 2/3 spinners in India. you need at least 3 seam bowlers in most countries outside Asia,
England would have done better if our spinners had of preformed better.. Last series we won was prime example..Swann and Panesar.
posted on 20/12/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/12/16
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 21/12/16
England need to stop this monkeying about with Ali as the main spinner, he just not good enough, either play him as a batter or dont play him at all. I'd give Rashid a few series in england before completely jettisoning him.
You can't just keep wheeling him out when they tour asia how is he meant to get used to test cricket and get better? Hes bowling against batters who take spin bowlers apart in home conditions.
Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Butler (WK) Rashid, Broad, Anderson, Woakes.
Id like to see that team for a few tests and see how they go. If Jonny keeps the gloves you could put Alii in for butler at 5. Need to stop this nonsense of him being englands no1 spinner.
posted on 21/12/16
I have seen many pundits say in 2017 we start travelling away. Which tours do they mean? According to future tours program we are only scheduled to play SL and then there isn't anymore test series as the Pak series ain't happening.
posted on 21/12/16
Just looking at this last series in isolation, what was Stokes purpose?
posted on 21/12/16
comment by U2 (U20610)
posted 27 minutes ago
Just looking at this last series in isolation, what was Stokes purpose?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It would be a very brave man to leave him out.
posted on 22/12/16
Ha Cook is named captain in the ICC team of the year.. what a laugh. I think even the ICC are eve taking the piss..Kohli is obviously the obvious choice.
posted on 22/12/16
Just wait until summer.....we'll lose by a lot less on our pitches....
posted on 22/12/16
Rashid took 22 wickets and I bet he averaged like 40 a wicket. hes too expensive and totally unreliable.
I just look at his stats he's average 43 a wicket and goes at nearly 4 an over..
he's not up to it.. Anyway we don't need 2 spinners in England in fact we saw in India our seamers hardly got a bowl.
If England produce dry wickets at home. They deserve to lose.. we win games when our seamers are in the mix.
posted on 22/12/16
Stokes is not a number 6..Its the mind set of programmed cricket England play.. Oh ben stokes. world class. bats 6s and bowls well. ermm this idol worshipping of Stokes. his record doesn't actually stand up to it..I would play him 7 and bat Mooen 6..
posted on 22/12/16
Stokes averaged a tad under 40 which for your number 6 is very decent.
Not sure why he seems to be the fall guy when England do badly.
It's such an English mentality to have a go at our best players.
England lost because our spin bowling is rubbish. Forget the collapses. England's second innings scores were actually competitive scores for 3rd/4th innings in India (look at the stats).
It's the fact our spin bowlers are rubbish and allowed them to rack up 700 etc that lost us the series.
posted on 22/12/16
That's where averages can be misleading.. you can score 250 and fail 5/6 times in a row after than and your still averaging.
posted on 22/12/16
over 40^
posted on 22/12/16
A bit like Nair who according to the Indian's is now the best batsman in the world behind Kohli...
Stokes has a decent series for my likening. He scored a ton, which really rescued us from a bad spot, a 70 odd and had a number of starts too. He didn't fail too many times.
For me your number 6 should be someone who plays aggressively and has the potential to counter attack and take the game Away from the opposition. That's why I don't think we should be expecting Stokes to average in the mid 40's.
Look at Flintoff. He was more inconsistent with the bat.
posted on 22/12/16
Flintoff was a better bowler and vice-versa Stokes is the better batter
I prefer my number who can do both attack and defend.
If Stokes gets more runs at 6 then I wont complain..He just fails to much for my liking.
posted on 22/12/16
Rashid took 22 wickets and I bet he averaged like 40 a wicket. hes too expensive and totally unreliable.
I just look at his stats he's average 43 a wicket and goes at nearly 4 an over..
he's not up to it.. Anyway we don't need 2 spinners in England in fact we saw in India our seamers hardly got a bowl.
---------------
Rashid may not be the answer as england spin bowler but i guarantee Ali is not the answer either as prooved with his bowling in the past 3 years.
Just pick a freaking spin bowler who can take wickets none of this stupid oh he can bat abit lets pick him.
Leech may have questions over his action but he looks to have resolved them. He should be selected and given a chance to get used to test cricket. Absolutely no point in selecting spin bowlers to play in Asia and when they do poorly (against the best players of spin) england just jettison them and say oh look he failed.
Rashid avarages 40ish but hes bowled against Pakistan and India in asia. these guys are the best there is against spin. Give him a go against SA/Aus/NZ ect who lets face it arent as good.
posted on 22/12/16
Thing the focus will come down on the Moeen then..He will just be in the team for his batting.. if you pick a front line spinner. You will have only have 3 seam bowlers one of them being Stokes.I want stokes to be 4th choice.
I don't have a problem preparing results wickets for our seamers... Unless the weather is going to be sunny and warm for a test match in England.. you wont need 2 spinners..
England should prepare wickets with grass on them..your in the game with your bowlers then.. England never looked like bowling India out
Infact England only took 7 wickets in the final test..
posted on 22/12/16
Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root (c)
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler (wkt)
Woakes/Wood
Rayner
Broad
Anderson
posted on 22/12/16
I really think Anderson will struggle in aus like he did in the last ashes down under. His pace has come considerably down and if the aus pitches offer no lateral movement he will struggle big time.
I think wood and woakes are going to be England's best bet in the current scenario and England will want to manage this 2 well before the ashes tour.
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