Last season we seemed to have youthful energy, vitality and no fear. This season we look slow and stale, I guess Poch has to carry the can for the loss of spark.
Leicester fan in peace
This thread could easily be posted on the Leicester board as well, it is almost a mirror image of us.
Does the pressure of a campaign like last season take a lot longer to get over mentally than we would imagine for teams like ours that aren't normally involved at the sharp end of he season?
I think it's deliberate from poch and a mistake.
I reckon he is concerned about fatigue with the limited squad and injuries too
comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think it's deliberate from poch and a mistake.
I reckon he is concerned about fatigue with the limited squad and injuries too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, it will be interesting to see how things develop in the new year with just the PL and FA Cup to go at (assuming the Europa will be a reserve outfit if we qualify).
The team is yet to fully click this season, that is for sure.
There was a study a year or two ago that suggested that teams that employ a really intensive pressing system typically have a shelf life of 3-4 years max before it needs a complete change of tactics or a major squad overhaul.
How long has Poch been there? And how much rotation of the players has there been? Didn't you have a relatively small squad with not a great deal of rotation last season?
Poch doesn't know how to balance playing in the premier league and in the champions league. Let's be honest some of his selections in CL games have looked like we are setting up for europa league games. Why would we rest the likes of walker rose Jan etc.. in different group games this year.
We worked our balls off to get into the cl yet I feel he has undermined it with various odd team selections
comment by Serge Muhmenthaler (U15867)
posted 35 minutes ago
There was a study a year or two ago that suggested that teams that employ a really intensive pressing system typically have a shelf life of 3-4 years max before it needs a complete change of tactics or a major squad overhaul.
How long has Poch been there? And how much rotation of the players has there been? Didn't you have a relatively small squad with not a great deal of rotation last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was there? I'm genuinely interested to read it if you have it to hand
The way we play we rely heavily on our fullbacks while Trippier and Davies are okay to fill in now and then we are not at our best without Rose and Walker. The Poch rotating the fullbacks shows he doesnt care about champions league. We have not been great in the league either due to injuries to key players. Have we had a fully fit squad this season? We hardly had any injuries last season. Selling Chadli and Mason has weakend us as their replacements have not yet delivered.
comment by Edinropa League © (U1109)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Serge Muhmenthaler (U15867)
posted 35 minutes ago
There was a study a year or two ago that suggested that teams that employ a really intensive pressing system typically have a shelf life of 3-4 years max before it needs a complete change of tactics or a major squad overhaul.
How long has Poch been there? And how much rotation of the players has there been? Didn't you have a relatively small squad with not a great deal of rotation last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was there? I'm genuinely interested to read it if you have it to hand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a quick search but can't see it, too busy watching tonights games. I read a couple of pieces, I think from Michael Cox and Jonathan Wilson, both quite reknown.
Basically the gist of it was pointing to the likes of Barca under Pep that looked out of sorts in his last (4th season), Klopp's Dortmund not improving after his 4th season (season 5 was pretty decent though tbh, but they had completely gone by the 6th season - 2 years past their sell by date?). There were other examples as well, can't remember really, Bielsa's teams were one.
Agree 100%. The press was supposed to be poch's USP tatic but it is nowhere to be seen. Look at Liverpool meanwhile and you see what a good press looks like
Where has the press gone?
-----
Arry will know.
It's could be down to individuals though.
Kane is covering less ground due to injury. The exact same can be said of Dembele. Dier, who was everywhere last season, isn't playing in his best position. Lamela is not starting and Penson is slow.
Im trying to find an article now about Marcelo Bielsa.
Its all short term success but nothing long term. Similar to what the gentlemen earlier in the thread says but it was just about Bielsa, pressing and the fitness/injuries would occur later on in a reign. It backed it up with science because bielsas career never usually stretched longer than 3 seasons!
There is nobody more a student of Bielsa than Poch even nicking the 5-3-1-1 formation marseille used, when we used it for the first time against Watford.
In no way is our lack of a press deliberate poch has never changed in his career why would he now?
It is very very interesting for those who look deeper that Jurgen Klopps sides press harder than what we did last season or currently now yet they rotate on a regular basis.
Poch rotates much less Its quite conceivable the bielsa burnout has hit us now after a few seasons of intense training.
Don't worry lads, focus on the league and go back to trying to take the p1ss out of Leicester.
You are still not that far off the top though.
The 3 year theory is very true. It's been proven with all succesful teams that used a high press system.
It's actually quite impressive that Klopp's Dortmund managed it for so long...not forgetting that Tuchel has also carried on the high press system.
Although i think the difference between Klopp's Dortmund and say Pep's Barca is that Pep employed a possession tactic as well which helped conserve energy. Klopp's Dortmund werent so heavily reliant on possession...especially in the bigger games. It was more let the opposition have the ball and you press relentlessly to catch them out of shape.
Klopp's Liverpool is different though...we're a lot more possession orientated than his Dortmund side...maybe he's learning from his mistakes or just realising that in the PL, most of the 'smaller' teams will just let you have the ball either way.
I think this is where Poch needs to adjust. Same is happening to Leicester. You can still press...maybe work on creating pressing traps in the final third or work on your possession game.
Adding to that last season we also had a problem with smaller teams.
We are facked. I'm dreading the Chelsea game they are going to tear us a new on
I'll be avoiding social meeds and this place for a while after Saturday I think
the press has facked off along with the form of eriksen son alli dembele dier wimmer rose and just about everyone else who plays for us.
We all know that Spurs besides their strongest starting 11 aren't good enough to compete at the highest professional level.
Dembele was banned for his foolish poke. Kane has been injured for a while. Alderweireld now injured as well for a decent run of games. Lamela has been out too. Rose now can't play against Chelsea because of the yellow card.
All the while we have bought players that Wanyama excluded aren't good enough to be starting over those mentioned. Janssen doesn't have Kane's ability. Sissoko was last minute and someone like Mane would have been a better option or even perhaps Boufal.
NKoudou is pretty much a replacement for a player that never got game time anyway and its the same for him now. On top of all that our main players like Eriksen are consistently inconsistent.
It's all accumulated to what we see now. Out of the CL and the League Cup. The unbeaten record some use to justify our performances is nonsense.
NKoudou is pretty much a replacement for a player that never got game time anyway and its the same for him now. On top of all that our main players like Eriksen are consistently inconsistent.
-----
where the fack is he? most times he looks bright, direct and pacey, but he cannot even get on the bench? is he injured?
we have onomah on the bench these days who offers absolutely nothing.
what the fack is going on?
I've no idea. I don't understand how someone can't even play 30 minutes of football. If it's a fitness issue how bad must it be?!
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posted on 23/11/16
Last season we seemed to have youthful energy, vitality and no fear. This season we look slow and stale, I guess Poch has to carry the can for the loss of spark.
posted on 23/11/16
Leicester fan in peace
This thread could easily be posted on the Leicester board as well, it is almost a mirror image of us.
Does the pressure of a campaign like last season take a lot longer to get over mentally than we would imagine for teams like ours that aren't normally involved at the sharp end of he season?
posted on 23/11/16
I think it's deliberate from poch and a mistake.
I reckon he is concerned about fatigue with the limited squad and injuries too
posted on 23/11/16
comment by Sir Tottenham of Hotspur (U17379)
posted 4 minutes ago
I think it's deliberate from poch and a mistake.
I reckon he is concerned about fatigue with the limited squad and injuries too
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree, it will be interesting to see how things develop in the new year with just the PL and FA Cup to go at (assuming the Europa will be a reserve outfit if we qualify).
The team is yet to fully click this season, that is for sure.
posted on 23/11/16
There was a study a year or two ago that suggested that teams that employ a really intensive pressing system typically have a shelf life of 3-4 years max before it needs a complete change of tactics or a major squad overhaul.
How long has Poch been there? And how much rotation of the players has there been? Didn't you have a relatively small squad with not a great deal of rotation last season?
posted on 23/11/16
Poch doesn't know how to balance playing in the premier league and in the champions league. Let's be honest some of his selections in CL games have looked like we are setting up for europa league games. Why would we rest the likes of walker rose Jan etc.. in different group games this year.
We worked our balls off to get into the cl yet I feel he has undermined it with various odd team selections
posted on 23/11/16
comment by Serge Muhmenthaler (U15867)
posted 35 minutes ago
There was a study a year or two ago that suggested that teams that employ a really intensive pressing system typically have a shelf life of 3-4 years max before it needs a complete change of tactics or a major squad overhaul.
How long has Poch been there? And how much rotation of the players has there been? Didn't you have a relatively small squad with not a great deal of rotation last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was there? I'm genuinely interested to read it if you have it to hand
posted on 23/11/16
The way we play we rely heavily on our fullbacks while Trippier and Davies are okay to fill in now and then we are not at our best without Rose and Walker. The Poch rotating the fullbacks shows he doesnt care about champions league. We have not been great in the league either due to injuries to key players. Have we had a fully fit squad this season? We hardly had any injuries last season. Selling Chadli and Mason has weakend us as their replacements have not yet delivered.
posted on 23/11/16
comment by Edinropa League © (U1109)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Serge Muhmenthaler (U15867)
posted 35 minutes ago
There was a study a year or two ago that suggested that teams that employ a really intensive pressing system typically have a shelf life of 3-4 years max before it needs a complete change of tactics or a major squad overhaul.
How long has Poch been there? And how much rotation of the players has there been? Didn't you have a relatively small squad with not a great deal of rotation last season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Was there? I'm genuinely interested to read it if you have it to hand
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Had a quick search but can't see it, too busy watching tonights games. I read a couple of pieces, I think from Michael Cox and Jonathan Wilson, both quite reknown.
Basically the gist of it was pointing to the likes of Barca under Pep that looked out of sorts in his last (4th season), Klopp's Dortmund not improving after his 4th season (season 5 was pretty decent though tbh, but they had completely gone by the 6th season - 2 years past their sell by date?). There were other examples as well, can't remember really, Bielsa's teams were one.
posted on 23/11/16
Agree 100%. The press was supposed to be poch's USP tatic but it is nowhere to be seen. Look at Liverpool meanwhile and you see what a good press looks like
posted on 23/11/16
Where has the press gone?
-----
Arry will know.
posted on 23/11/16
It's could be down to individuals though.
Kane is covering less ground due to injury. The exact same can be said of Dembele. Dier, who was everywhere last season, isn't playing in his best position. Lamela is not starting and Penson is slow.
posted on 24/11/16
Im trying to find an article now about Marcelo Bielsa.
Its all short term success but nothing long term. Similar to what the gentlemen earlier in the thread says but it was just about Bielsa, pressing and the fitness/injuries would occur later on in a reign. It backed it up with science because bielsas career never usually stretched longer than 3 seasons!
There is nobody more a student of Bielsa than Poch even nicking the 5-3-1-1 formation marseille used, when we used it for the first time against Watford.
In no way is our lack of a press deliberate poch has never changed in his career why would he now?
It is very very interesting for those who look deeper that Jurgen Klopps sides press harder than what we did last season or currently now yet they rotate on a regular basis.
Poch rotates much less Its quite conceivable the bielsa burnout has hit us now after a few seasons of intense training.
posted on 24/11/16
Don't worry lads, focus on the league and go back to trying to take the p1ss out of Leicester.
posted on 24/11/16
You are still not that far off the top though.
posted on 24/11/16
The 3 year theory is very true. It's been proven with all succesful teams that used a high press system.
It's actually quite impressive that Klopp's Dortmund managed it for so long...not forgetting that Tuchel has also carried on the high press system.
Although i think the difference between Klopp's Dortmund and say Pep's Barca is that Pep employed a possession tactic as well which helped conserve energy. Klopp's Dortmund werent so heavily reliant on possession...especially in the bigger games. It was more let the opposition have the ball and you press relentlessly to catch them out of shape.
Klopp's Liverpool is different though...we're a lot more possession orientated than his Dortmund side...maybe he's learning from his mistakes or just realising that in the PL, most of the 'smaller' teams will just let you have the ball either way.
I think this is where Poch needs to adjust. Same is happening to Leicester. You can still press...maybe work on creating pressing traps in the final third or work on your possession game.
posted on 24/11/16
Adding to that last season we also had a problem with smaller teams.
posted on 24/11/16
We are facked. I'm dreading the Chelsea game they are going to tear us a new on
I'll be avoiding social meeds and this place for a while after Saturday I think
posted on 24/11/16
the press has facked off along with the form of eriksen son alli dembele dier wimmer rose and just about everyone else who plays for us.
posted on 24/11/16
We all know that Spurs besides their strongest starting 11 aren't good enough to compete at the highest professional level.
Dembele was banned for his foolish poke. Kane has been injured for a while. Alderweireld now injured as well for a decent run of games. Lamela has been out too. Rose now can't play against Chelsea because of the yellow card.
All the while we have bought players that Wanyama excluded aren't good enough to be starting over those mentioned. Janssen doesn't have Kane's ability. Sissoko was last minute and someone like Mane would have been a better option or even perhaps Boufal.
NKoudou is pretty much a replacement for a player that never got game time anyway and its the same for him now. On top of all that our main players like Eriksen are consistently inconsistent.
It's all accumulated to what we see now. Out of the CL and the League Cup. The unbeaten record some use to justify our performances is nonsense.
posted on 24/11/16
NKoudou is pretty much a replacement for a player that never got game time anyway and its the same for him now. On top of all that our main players like Eriksen are consistently inconsistent.
-----
where the fack is he? most times he looks bright, direct and pacey, but he cannot even get on the bench? is he injured?
we have onomah on the bench these days who offers absolutely nothing.
what the fack is going on?
posted on 24/11/16
I've no idea. I don't understand how someone can't even play 30 minutes of football. If it's a fitness issue how bad must it be?!
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