Also, why on earth didn't we go for Kante in the summer? Would have been a beast in our midfield but oh no not Wenger. He thought he would be clever and sign a maniac in Xhaka, for a shiite load of money too.
Does my head in why Wenger and the board spent that much on Xhaka.
Kanta would have been a beast but im guessing Wengnutz thought he had the COQ so to speak!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Yee (U3245)
posted 28 seconds ago
i think those 13 wins had more to do with Sanchez getting played through the middle rather than the donkey giroud
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its both. Coq is limited. But if you keep him away from your goal you can hide his lack of positioning and lack of passing ability.
With Giroud teams press us and we can't get out. Means Coq is defending our box and his limitations are exposed. Its nothing new. Its why we have lost so man games over the last 4 seasons when you consider the quality we do possess.
Well then get Alexis up front where he should be and get that arrogant tosspot Giroud on the bench.
Alexis was upfront for 45 minutes yesterday and didn't do much (apart from the assist).
He is getting tired and could do with a break but obvisously, this is a concept which he is not familiar with
comment by Gunner in the East (U21364)
posted 55 seconds ago
Well then get Alexis up front where he should be and get that arrogant tosspot Giroud on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been saying that for 4 seasons now. Our best form always comes when we have a faster striker up front. Be it Alexit, Walcott, Welbeck. But for some reason Wenger goes back to Giroud every time. Even gives him contract extensions like he has with Mertesacker. Its like the man is blind when it comes to his best friend.
Perfect game to have Giroud come into around the 65th min if needed (don't laugh).... he is a great game changing sub and should be used as such.
How Welbeck, Walcott and Perez, all in fine form, can be left on the bench or not included is baffling.
There was also a stat that until last night we were unbeaten in about 20 games when Mustafi played, even though he's been average at the back.
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 6 minutes ago
There was also a stat that until last night we were unbeaten in about 20 games when Mustafi played, even though he's been average at the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafi has been so much better than Mertesacker. But its helped how well Xhaka has shielded him and the fact there is less pressure when we are further up the pitch away from our goal.
That is my point. It all starts from being able to push up because the opposition respects your striker.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 6 minutes ago
There was also a stat that until last night we were unbeaten in about 20 games when Mustafi played, even though he's been average at the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafi has been so much better than Mertesacker. But its helped how well Xhaka has shielded him and the fact there is less pressure when we are further up the pitch away from our goal.
That is my point. It all starts from being able to push up because the opposition respects your striker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he? He has more pace (obviously) but makes way more mistakes than I can remember Mertesacker making, he gives away so many stupid free kicks. The only advantage he gives us over Per is we can press high (when the team can actually be bothered to) with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he? He has more pace (obviously) but makes way more mistakes than I can remember Mertesacker making, he gives away so many stupid free kicks. The only advantage he gives us over Per is we can press high (when the team can actually be bothered to) with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But thats just it. We have pushed up higher as a team with him in it. This is Mustafi's first season and he has no idea of the opposing managers, strikers, their runs, so over reacts and is impetuous at times. But with him we were playing higher as a team when Alexis was leading the line. Then when he made mistakes he still had time to recover. With Giroud we cannot get out and as result Mustafi makes those mistakes in the box when no one can cover and he doesn't have the time recover!
Good stat that. I must admit last season I thought we had found the answer with Coq. My opinion has dropped dramatically this season, he is now a liability with his constant yellow cards and rash tackles.He rarley contributes with assists, has he ever scored ! I know his main purpose is to break down the opposition in midfield but that has been lacking this season also.I also dont think he has had the right partner for most games.Squad player now.
he is now a liability with his constant yellow cards
----------
3 all season in the league, and two of those were in the first two games. Also only got 5 yellows last season. If anything the criticism should be he isn't gettin enough (he should, some could argue, have taken Capoue out and took a yellow in the build up to Deeneys goal).
A lot of our problems in midfield come from it being a 2 man midfield. We saw the benefits on Saturday of having a genuine 3 man midfield, one sitting and two box to box.
Also doesn't help the constant changing of the two, no partnership has ever settled since Cazorla/Coquelin was broken up.
Should also be noted that Coq started the games against PSG, Chelsea, Spurs and United where he put in solid performances that helped us avoid defeat. Also we have had a fair few big wins with Coq starting, such as 5-1 v West Ham. Also started the 3-0 v United last season, and other big wins.
The 14 games without him included cup games against lower league sides with very much changed XIs, and bottom end PL teams. When we start beating the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Man Utd without him then I will start crediting the stat, tbh.
Btw in the games Alexis hasn't started we have scored 15 in 6 games Stats
I think the stats are very misleading. This is the same Coq who came back from loan and dominated half a season. And has been pretty on point since then.
I feel however that something has changed...not so much with the player, but with the instructions he is given. Prior to this season, Coq was always our deepest MF. Always there to cover the fullbacks etc. This year, he is seemingly playing a box to box role and playing higher up the field. This just does not work and is very reminiscent of Alex Song. Was a good DM and then started popping up higher up the pitch and his defensive work suffered. So who gives these instructions? Wenger!
The boss is diluting another players best attributes to accomodate another. Xhaka does not have the engine and pace to play a box to box role. So he plays as a deep lying midfielder and Coq pushes up. This in turn makes us more vulnerable. Coq should do what he does best especially like when he formed a great partnership with Cazorla - he sits back, wins tackles and passes a simple ball to other midfielders who are more creative. But Wenger seems intent to put square pegs in round holes (every season) and then we end up blaming the wrong player and the team suffers as a whole.
Maine
Since Cazorla got injured Coq has had to play a different role because of the limitations of Xhaka, Ramsey and Elneny.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 29 seconds ago
Maine
Since Cazorla got injured Coq has had to play a different role because of the limitations of Xhaka, Ramsey and Elneny.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is stupid to say the least. We should be looking to keep as steady a ship as possible. It's tough enough having a new partner in CM...but having one who is limited and then being told to compensate in ways that you are not too great at, whilst diluting what you do best...boggles the mind man.
My other gripe is with the people blaming Giroud. I mean come on...I am not paid 8mill a year but I can tell you that the lineup yesterday would have left Giroud COMPLETELY isolated.
1)Gabriel - cannot put in a decent cross. maybe because he is not a RB?!?! No overlapping runs either.
2) Iwobi - cuts in every time...no crosses from him. No runs beyond the defense either on the right.
3) Sanchez does not get to the byline and cross. A lot of his stuff is dinked in.
So you have a player whose best attributes are aerial ability and also holding up the ball and playing it to people running beyond him. Then you surround him with players who do the complete opposite. Good grief.
Iwobi is another frustrating one. Played on the right where he isn't at his best. Moved to the left, is heavily involved in our good spell. Then moved to CM and all our attacking momentum is gone.
I actually agree with DJ for once; Coquelin isn't one of the causes of Arsenal's midfield woes. And I'd have taken Kante in a heart beat, but Xhaka, when playing, offers an additional aerial presence
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
My other gripe is with the people blaming Giroud. I mean come on...I am not paid 8mill a year but I can tell you that the lineup yesterday would have left Giroud COMPLETELY isolated.
1)Gabriel - cannot put in a decent cross. maybe because he is not a RB?!?! No overlapping runs either.
2) Iwobi - cuts in every time...no crosses from him. No runs beyond the defense either on the right.
3) Sanchez does not get to the byline and cross. A lot of his stuff is dinked in.
So you have a player whose best attributes are aerial ability and also holding up the ball and playing it to people running beyond him. Then you surround him with players who do the complete opposite. Good grief.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so difficult to understand that opposing teams push up as a tactic because they are not scared that the striker can beat the offside trap? When the entire opposing team is in your half, with the opposing centre backs on the half way line doesn't tell you anything?
What are you isolating? Giroud can stand in the opposition half offside and not one opposing CB will give a feck!
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
My other gripe is with the people blaming Giroud. I mean come on...I am not paid 8mill a year but I can tell you that the lineup yesterday would have left Giroud COMPLETELY isolated.
1)Gabriel - cannot put in a decent cross. maybe because he is not a RB?!?! No overlapping runs either.
2) Iwobi - cuts in every time...no crosses from him. No runs beyond the defense either on the right.
3) Sanchez does not get to the byline and cross. A lot of his stuff is dinked in.
So you have a player whose best attributes are aerial ability and also holding up the ball and playing it to people running beyond him. Then you surround him with players who do the complete opposite. Good grief.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so difficult to understand that opposing teams push up as a tactic because they are not scared that the striker can beat the offside trap? When the entire opposing team is in your half, with the opposing centre backs on the half way line doesn't tell you anything?
What are you isolating? Giroud can stand in the opposition half offside and not one opposing CB will give a feck!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not only Giroud. Even with him up top, if you have Theo willing to break that high line and Bellerin overlapping with pace, it will push the team back. You can play with a slower CF if he has willing runners. Teams push up when you have an entire midfield who want to cut in and congest the middle, want ball to feet and are not willing to make runs for a ball over the top or through the lines. Do that and a team will be more awre and nervous due to different routes of attack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not only Giroud. Even with him up top, if you have Theo willing to break that high line and Bellerin overlapping with pace, it will push the team back. You can play with a slower CF if he has willing runners. Teams push up when you have an entire midfield who want to cut in and congest the middle, want ball to feet and are not willing to make runs for a ball over the top or through the lines. Do that and a team will be more awre and nervous due to different routes of attack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It won't. And you can go back to Gervinho, Alexis, Oxo any fast player you want from wide. As a wide player your starting position is much deeper. And you will find that most full backs are just as fast wingers these days. They easily shadow wide players coming forward and use the touchline to defend them one on one. So unless your striker is on the shoulder of CBs you will not get them to respect vertical passing from midfield. This problem is extenuated against tiki taka teams whose main objective is to maintain possession. Tiki taka or short passing in your own half when the opposing team is camped and pressing the limited space means you will end up losing the ball. And the when you lose the ball its far closer to your goal which gives very little time to react for defenders.
IT'S OZIL!!
Ozil at CAM is the biggest factor in the MF chaos. It isn't Coq can't play with Ramsey, it's Coq can't play with Ramsey AND Ozil. If you put Coq/Ramsey behind Cazorla at CAM, you wouldn't get the same chaotic outcome. Because Cazorla works as hard defensively as he does in attack and because he will regularly relieve MF pressure by dribbling the ball, drawing players in.
People are criticising other players who are actually only looking bad because of the detrimental effect Ozil's presence in the centre of the pitch has.
Sign in if you want to comment
Played 13, won 13
Page 1 of 2
posted on 1/2/17
Also, why on earth didn't we go for Kante in the summer? Would have been a beast in our midfield but oh no not Wenger. He thought he would be clever and sign a maniac in Xhaka, for a shiite load of money too.
Does my head in why Wenger and the board spent that much on Xhaka.
posted on 1/2/17
Kanta would have been a beast but im guessing Wengnutz thought he had the COQ so to speak!
posted on 1/2/17
Kante
posted on 1/2/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Yee (U3245)
posted 28 seconds ago
i think those 13 wins had more to do with Sanchez getting played through the middle rather than the donkey giroud
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its both. Coq is limited. But if you keep him away from your goal you can hide his lack of positioning and lack of passing ability.
With Giroud teams press us and we can't get out. Means Coq is defending our box and his limitations are exposed. Its nothing new. Its why we have lost so man games over the last 4 seasons when you consider the quality we do possess.
posted on 1/2/17
Well then get Alexis up front where he should be and get that arrogant tosspot Giroud on the bench.
posted on 1/2/17
Alexis was upfront for 45 minutes yesterday and didn't do much (apart from the assist).
He is getting tired and could do with a break but obvisously, this is a concept which he is not familiar with
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Gunner in the East (U21364)
posted 55 seconds ago
Well then get Alexis up front where he should be and get that arrogant tosspot Giroud on the bench.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Been saying that for 4 seasons now. Our best form always comes when we have a faster striker up front. Be it Alexit, Walcott, Welbeck. But for some reason Wenger goes back to Giroud every time. Even gives him contract extensions like he has with Mertesacker. Its like the man is blind when it comes to his best friend.
posted on 1/2/17
Perfect game to have Giroud come into around the 65th min if needed (don't laugh).... he is a great game changing sub and should be used as such.
How Welbeck, Walcott and Perez, all in fine form, can be left on the bench or not included is baffling.
posted on 1/2/17
There was also a stat that until last night we were unbeaten in about 20 games when Mustafi played, even though he's been average at the back.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 6 minutes ago
There was also a stat that until last night we were unbeaten in about 20 games when Mustafi played, even though he's been average at the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafi has been so much better than Mertesacker. But its helped how well Xhaka has shielded him and the fact there is less pressure when we are further up the pitch away from our goal.
That is my point. It all starts from being able to push up because the opposition respects your striker.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Yohan's Kebab Van (U8691)
posted 6 minutes ago
There was also a stat that until last night we were unbeaten in about 20 games when Mustafi played, even though he's been average at the back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafi has been so much better than Mertesacker. But its helped how well Xhaka has shielded him and the fact there is less pressure when we are further up the pitch away from our goal.
That is my point. It all starts from being able to push up because the opposition respects your striker.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he? He has more pace (obviously) but makes way more mistakes than I can remember Mertesacker making, he gives away so many stupid free kicks. The only advantage he gives us over Per is we can press high (when the team can actually be bothered to) with him.
posted on 1/2/17
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Has he? He has more pace (obviously) but makes way more mistakes than I can remember Mertesacker making, he gives away so many stupid free kicks. The only advantage he gives us over Per is we can press high (when the team can actually be bothered to) with him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But thats just it. We have pushed up higher as a team with him in it. This is Mustafi's first season and he has no idea of the opposing managers, strikers, their runs, so over reacts and is impetuous at times. But with him we were playing higher as a team when Alexis was leading the line. Then when he made mistakes he still had time to recover. With Giroud we cannot get out and as result Mustafi makes those mistakes in the box when no one can cover and he doesn't have the time recover!
posted on 1/2/17
Good stat that. I must admit last season I thought we had found the answer with Coq. My opinion has dropped dramatically this season, he is now a liability with his constant yellow cards and rash tackles.He rarley contributes with assists, has he ever scored ! I know his main purpose is to break down the opposition in midfield but that has been lacking this season also.I also dont think he has had the right partner for most games.Squad player now.
posted on 1/2/17
he is now a liability with his constant yellow cards
----------
3 all season in the league, and two of those were in the first two games. Also only got 5 yellows last season. If anything the criticism should be he isn't gettin enough (he should, some could argue, have taken Capoue out and took a yellow in the build up to Deeneys goal).
A lot of our problems in midfield come from it being a 2 man midfield. We saw the benefits on Saturday of having a genuine 3 man midfield, one sitting and two box to box.
Also doesn't help the constant changing of the two, no partnership has ever settled since Cazorla/Coquelin was broken up.
Should also be noted that Coq started the games against PSG, Chelsea, Spurs and United where he put in solid performances that helped us avoid defeat. Also we have had a fair few big wins with Coq starting, such as 5-1 v West Ham. Also started the 3-0 v United last season, and other big wins.
The 14 games without him included cup games against lower league sides with very much changed XIs, and bottom end PL teams. When we start beating the likes of Chelsea, Spurs, Man Utd without him then I will start crediting the stat, tbh.
Btw in the games Alexis hasn't started we have scored 15 in 6 games Stats
posted on 1/2/17
I think the stats are very misleading. This is the same Coq who came back from loan and dominated half a season. And has been pretty on point since then.
I feel however that something has changed...not so much with the player, but with the instructions he is given. Prior to this season, Coq was always our deepest MF. Always there to cover the fullbacks etc. This year, he is seemingly playing a box to box role and playing higher up the field. This just does not work and is very reminiscent of Alex Song. Was a good DM and then started popping up higher up the pitch and his defensive work suffered. So who gives these instructions? Wenger!
The boss is diluting another players best attributes to accomodate another. Xhaka does not have the engine and pace to play a box to box role. So he plays as a deep lying midfielder and Coq pushes up. This in turn makes us more vulnerable. Coq should do what he does best especially like when he formed a great partnership with Cazorla - he sits back, wins tackles and passes a simple ball to other midfielders who are more creative. But Wenger seems intent to put square pegs in round holes (every season) and then we end up blaming the wrong player and the team suffers as a whole.
posted on 1/2/17
Maine
Since Cazorla got injured Coq has had to play a different role because of the limitations of Xhaka, Ramsey and Elneny.
posted on 1/2/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 29 seconds ago
Maine
Since Cazorla got injured Coq has had to play a different role because of the limitations of Xhaka, Ramsey and Elneny.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is stupid to say the least. We should be looking to keep as steady a ship as possible. It's tough enough having a new partner in CM...but having one who is limited and then being told to compensate in ways that you are not too great at, whilst diluting what you do best...boggles the mind man.
posted on 1/2/17
My other gripe is with the people blaming Giroud. I mean come on...I am not paid 8mill a year but I can tell you that the lineup yesterday would have left Giroud COMPLETELY isolated.
1)Gabriel - cannot put in a decent cross. maybe because he is not a RB?!?! No overlapping runs either.
2) Iwobi - cuts in every time...no crosses from him. No runs beyond the defense either on the right.
3) Sanchez does not get to the byline and cross. A lot of his stuff is dinked in.
So you have a player whose best attributes are aerial ability and also holding up the ball and playing it to people running beyond him. Then you surround him with players who do the complete opposite. Good grief.
posted on 1/2/17
Iwobi is another frustrating one. Played on the right where he isn't at his best. Moved to the left, is heavily involved in our good spell. Then moved to CM and all our attacking momentum is gone.
posted on 1/2/17
I actually agree with DJ for once; Coquelin isn't one of the causes of Arsenal's midfield woes. And I'd have taken Kante in a heart beat, but Xhaka, when playing, offers an additional aerial presence
posted on 1/2/17
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
My other gripe is with the people blaming Giroud. I mean come on...I am not paid 8mill a year but I can tell you that the lineup yesterday would have left Giroud COMPLETELY isolated.
1)Gabriel - cannot put in a decent cross. maybe because he is not a RB?!?! No overlapping runs either.
2) Iwobi - cuts in every time...no crosses from him. No runs beyond the defense either on the right.
3) Sanchez does not get to the byline and cross. A lot of his stuff is dinked in.
So you have a player whose best attributes are aerial ability and also holding up the ball and playing it to people running beyond him. Then you surround him with players who do the complete opposite. Good grief.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so difficult to understand that opposing teams push up as a tactic because they are not scared that the striker can beat the offside trap? When the entire opposing team is in your half, with the opposing centre backs on the half way line doesn't tell you anything?
What are you isolating? Giroud can stand in the opposition half offside and not one opposing CB will give a feck!
posted on 1/2/17
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 11 seconds ago
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
My other gripe is with the people blaming Giroud. I mean come on...I am not paid 8mill a year but I can tell you that the lineup yesterday would have left Giroud COMPLETELY isolated.
1)Gabriel - cannot put in a decent cross. maybe because he is not a RB?!?! No overlapping runs either.
2) Iwobi - cuts in every time...no crosses from him. No runs beyond the defense either on the right.
3) Sanchez does not get to the byline and cross. A lot of his stuff is dinked in.
So you have a player whose best attributes are aerial ability and also holding up the ball and playing it to people running beyond him. Then you surround him with players who do the complete opposite. Good grief.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is it so difficult to understand that opposing teams push up as a tactic because they are not scared that the striker can beat the offside trap? When the entire opposing team is in your half, with the opposing centre backs on the half way line doesn't tell you anything?
What are you isolating? Giroud can stand in the opposition half offside and not one opposing CB will give a feck!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not only Giroud. Even with him up top, if you have Theo willing to break that high line and Bellerin overlapping with pace, it will push the team back. You can play with a slower CF if he has willing runners. Teams push up when you have an entire midfield who want to cut in and congest the middle, want ball to feet and are not willing to make runs for a ball over the top or through the lines. Do that and a team will be more awre and nervous due to different routes of attack.
posted on 1/2/17
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is not only Giroud. Even with him up top, if you have Theo willing to break that high line and Bellerin overlapping with pace, it will push the team back. You can play with a slower CF if he has willing runners. Teams push up when you have an entire midfield who want to cut in and congest the middle, want ball to feet and are not willing to make runs for a ball over the top or through the lines. Do that and a team will be more awre and nervous due to different routes of attack.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It won't. And you can go back to Gervinho, Alexis, Oxo any fast player you want from wide. As a wide player your starting position is much deeper. And you will find that most full backs are just as fast wingers these days. They easily shadow wide players coming forward and use the touchline to defend them one on one. So unless your striker is on the shoulder of CBs you will not get them to respect vertical passing from midfield. This problem is extenuated against tiki taka teams whose main objective is to maintain possession. Tiki taka or short passing in your own half when the opposing team is camped and pressing the limited space means you will end up losing the ball. And the when you lose the ball its far closer to your goal which gives very little time to react for defenders.
posted on 1/2/17
IT'S OZIL!!
Ozil at CAM is the biggest factor in the MF chaos. It isn't Coq can't play with Ramsey, it's Coq can't play with Ramsey AND Ozil. If you put Coq/Ramsey behind Cazorla at CAM, you wouldn't get the same chaotic outcome. Because Cazorla works as hard defensively as he does in attack and because he will regularly relieve MF pressure by dribbling the ball, drawing players in.
People are criticising other players who are actually only looking bad because of the detrimental effect Ozil's presence in the centre of the pitch has.
Page 1 of 2