Who would you rather have in your team though?
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
Yeah but firmino scores winning goals and vs the best teams, he also does so much more than score. Walcott is tbh not a patch on him.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 27 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't call 3 goals in those 4 games loads of goals.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scored against Chelsea and City off the top of my head. In fact one thing about Theo is he often scores against the big teams.
That's not to argue that he can't be incredibly ineffective quite regularly.
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
Yeah but firmino scores winning goals and vs the best teams, he also does so much more than score. Walcott is tbh not a patch on him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do some research before making comments in the future. Not denying that Firmino's a better player but you make it sound like Walcott only scores against small teams and unimportant goals. He's scored more goals vs Chelsea then any other team. Scored a few vs City and Spurs, scored vs Utd, vs Bayern, vs Barca and scored in 2 cup finals for us. Definitely a big game player.
Walcott has scored a lot of goals against Chelsea and Spurs, I can also remember him ripping Man U apart last season despite not scoring, so he can do it against big teams, the problem is consistency and fitness.
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's scored just 1 more in those 4 games then he has vs Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Bayern
Ermm Walcott score regularly against the bigger team.
What so firminho has he customary purple patch at anfield against us and now he is more effective than Walcott
comment by Ramböue (U12551)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's scored just 1 more in those 4 games then he has vs Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Bayern
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And yet, other than perhaps Chelsea, he was painfully garbage in those games.
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 34 minutes ago
Ermm Walcott score regularly against the bigger team.
What so firminho has he customary purple patch at anfield against us and now he is more effective than Walcott
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus, man! Some of you are actually taking this comparison seriously. Firmino is hardly a world class superstar, but he's miles and miles better than Walcott. Far better passer. Far better dribbler. Far better link-up play and vision and creativity. More robust in the duel/tackle. Presses intelligently and intensely. Can operate effectively all across the frontline and at no.10. He's basically a poor man's Alexis in style, but is still a pretty good player. Trying to simply compare their goal tally and pretend they're on the same level is ridiculous. I'd happily trade Walcott for a player who scores half the goals, but knows how to control the ball, cross the ball, beat players, link up with other attackers.
I've always liked Theo, he's another example of undeveloped talent working under Wenger in the past decade
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 2 minutes ago
I've always liked Theo, he's another example of undeveloped talent working under Wenger in the past decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It has fack all to do with Wenger. Wenger's failing was in investing so much faith in such a mediocre talent. The technical foundation in Walcott's game has always been very limited. Abysmal even. You learn that at a young age before turning pro. It doesn't get coached into you at an advanced age. Even highly mediocre English wingers like Wright-Phillips, Aaron Lennon, Downing, Townsend etc have far more technically proficiency. What Walcott has developed is an intelligence in his movement off the ball and greater calmness in advanced positions. If anything Walcott has overachieved massively for such a limited talent and Wenger has extracted the best of the very little talent he has. Look how dreadful he looks for England compared to Arsenal.
Sheriff John Brown, what absolute BS you are talking.
Walcott has far out performed those players you compare him to. For someone with an alleged lack of technical proficiency he has a hell of a lot of assists to his name - especially in comparison to the inferior players you have mentioned.
He isn't an Ozil/ David Silva type player, but he has never tried to be.
Also I love the idea scoring goals is "stat padding"
Walcott>Bale>Hazard , check the stats.
Theo is getting back to the type of assists and goals levels he had started to attain before his injury. Some of the best in the country from wide. The problem is of course his achievement is not recognised because the team is not performing as a whole. This has dogged him his entire career. His Champions League goals scored are as good as any contemporary, for example Di Maria or Reus. But again Arsenal perform poorly so his contribution does not get noticed.
Its unfortunate that those who made up their minds when he was 19 haven't ever looked at his contribution with an open mind. He is one of the few in the Arsenal team has always turned up against the big teams under pressure be it Chelsea, City or Liverpool in domestic football or Bayern, Barca, Dortmund etc in European football.
Its unfortunate that those who made up their minds when he was 19
------
They still hang on to the "no footballing brain" nonsense someone spouted amongst a lot more guff on MOTD.
Probably second to Sanchez in terms of our most productive players and fans still want to hammer him.
He plays on the flanks and has 17 goals this season with another 2 months plus to go
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 48 minutes ago
Sheriff John Brown, what absolute BS you are talking.
Walcott has far out performed those players you compare him to. For someone with an alleged lack of technical proficiency he has a hell of a lot of assists to his name - especially in comparison to the inferior players you have mentioned.
He isn't an Ozil/ David Silva type player, but he has never tried to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Walcott has created something like 7 chances total this season. Alexis is closing in on 70 and Firmino 60: 2 "strikers". His assists stats over his career is a tad misleading as a way to judge his creative output. No one who actually watches Walcott play can associate him with creativity. Who on earth is comparing him to Silva? Compare him to even Ox or Iwobi, never mind the likes of Mane, and he's far less creative. I probably admit my bias against him made me talk sheite about "padding his stats" against small teams, but my comment about his technical ability is grounded in evident fact.
I also never said he didn't outperform those players. That's pretty much the point I was making to kneerash who was blaming Wenger for Walcott's lack of development: that in spite of having less technical gifts than those players, he has done better than them.
And all this stuff about Walcott's stats despite being a winger is again VERY misleading. Walcott participates less in our build-up play than most strikers, talk more of midfielders. Walcott is what Chicharito would be if he played as a winger. He averages less touches of the ball than any of our outfield players. Makes less passes. Creates less chances than even our fullbacks (Gibbs who can barely get 5 minutes per game has created almost as much which is facking ridiculous). Doesn't dribble. He basically spends most games trying his one trick: a diagonal run into space to grab a goal.
Walcott has created something like 7 chances total this season. Alexis is closing in on 70 and Firmino 60: 2 "strikers".
--------------------------------
That is easily explainable. Walcott has often played the furthest forward this season albeit from wide. This is because Alexis is not a natural no.9 and often drops deeper in his natural no.10 position. This means Theo either attacks the goal or he has to double back because the lack of an attacker to pass to in the middle. Its one reason why Bellerin has been so involved in play this season because he is the late runner who Theo often creates extra space for.
However if you were to examine his assists record to when he was playing with RVP before his injury you will find that his output was comparable to Bale (who is now recognised as one of the top 5 players in the world). So its not that he can't do it if the manager or formation requires it of him.
As for 'creativity', no one has ever suggested that he is a no.10 type creative player. In fact he is far more like Di Maria or Freddie or Wiltord who add the final separation to make chances for others or score themselves from wide. Those type of players are just as necessary as an Ozil or Alexis who rely on their spatial awareness.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 20 minutes ago
Walcott has created something like 7 chances total this season. Alexis is closing in on 70 and Firmino 60: 2 "strikers".
--------------------------------
That is easily explainable. Walcott has often played the furthest forward this season albeit from wide. This is because Alexis is not a natural no.9 and often drops deeper in his natural no.10 position. This means Theo either attacks the goal or he has to double back because the lack of an attacker to pass to in the middle. Its one reason why Bellerin has been so involved in play this season because he is the late runner who Theo often creates extra space for.
However if you were to examine his assists record to when he was playing with RVP before his injury you will find that his output was comparable to Bale (who is now recognised as one of the top 5 players in the world). So its not that he can't do it if the manager or formation requires it of him.
As for 'creativity', no one has ever suggested that he is a no.10 type creative player. In fact he is far more like Di Maria or Freddie or Wiltord who add the final separation to make chances for others or score themselves from wide. Those type of players are just as necessary as an Ozil or Alexis who rely on their spatial awareness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't buy it one bit. Sadio Mane plays a similar role to Walcott and Firmino plays the same withdrawn striker role as Alexis. Mane still has 42 chances created compared to Walcott's 11. Compare Walcott to even players like Lukaku who you would hardly call creative and he lags behind. Face it, the guy struggles with the rudiments of control, passing and dribbling and hence struggles to create when there's the slightest attention on him. A player like Mane or Alexis or even Sterling would simply dribble through their markers. If Walcott can't perform his one trick of drifting right to centre with his patented diagonal run, he's a hopelessly inept footballer.
Comparing Walcott to Di Maria is ridiculous. They have little in common in style beyond both being quick.
A player like Mane or Alexis or even Sterling would simply dribble through their markers. If Walcott can't perform his one trick of drifting right to centre with his patented diagonal run, he's a hopelessly inept footballer.
===========
Almost as if this wasn't just a few days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQua2H_53R4
Agree with Sheriff, Wenger's done well to turn such a limited player into a productive attacker using his speed, movement and finishing. if he was fit and on form for a whole season fair enough, but we already knew at the start he'll be out injured and go through some bad form. Nothing different to the Walcott from the last 6/7 years.
Sign in if you want to comment
Theo Walcott
Page 1 of 3
posted on 12/3/17
Who would you rather have in your team though?
posted on 12/3/17
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
posted on 12/3/17
Yeah but firmino scores winning goals and vs the best teams, he also does so much more than score. Walcott is tbh not a patch on him.
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 27 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't call 3 goals in those 4 games loads of goals.
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scored against Chelsea and City off the top of my head. In fact one thing about Theo is he often scores against the big teams.
That's not to argue that he can't be incredibly ineffective quite regularly.
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
Yeah but firmino scores winning goals and vs the best teams, he also does so much more than score. Walcott is tbh not a patch on him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do some research before making comments in the future. Not denying that Firmino's a better player but you make it sound like Walcott only scores against small teams and unimportant goals. He's scored more goals vs Chelsea then any other team. Scored a few vs City and Spurs, scored vs Utd, vs Bayern, vs Barca and scored in 2 cup finals for us. Definitely a big game player.
posted on 12/3/17
Walcott has scored a lot of goals against Chelsea and Spurs, I can also remember him ripping Man U apart last season despite not scoring, so he can do it against big teams, the problem is consistency and fitness.
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's scored just 1 more in those 4 games then he has vs Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Bayern
posted on 12/3/17
Ermm Walcott score regularly against the bigger team.
What so firminho has he customary purple patch at anfield against us and now he is more effective than Walcott
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Ramböue (U12551)
posted 30 minutes ago
comment by Sheriff John Brown - bring back David Dein (U7482)
posted 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
I would easily swap Walcott for Firminho, plus a decent fee too. Padding up your stats with loads of goals against the likes of Ludo and Basel, Lincoln City and Sutton hardly tells the story of how ineffective Walcott can be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's scored just 1 more in those 4 games then he has vs Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Bayern
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And yet, other than perhaps Chelsea, he was painfully garbage in those games.
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 34 minutes ago
Ermm Walcott score regularly against the bigger team.
What so firminho has he customary purple patch at anfield against us and now he is more effective than Walcott
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus, man! Some of you are actually taking this comparison seriously. Firmino is hardly a world class superstar, but he's miles and miles better than Walcott. Far better passer. Far better dribbler. Far better link-up play and vision and creativity. More robust in the duel/tackle. Presses intelligently and intensely. Can operate effectively all across the frontline and at no.10. He's basically a poor man's Alexis in style, but is still a pretty good player. Trying to simply compare their goal tally and pretend they're on the same level is ridiculous. I'd happily trade Walcott for a player who scores half the goals, but knows how to control the ball, cross the ball, beat players, link up with other attackers.
posted on 12/3/17
I've always liked Theo, he's another example of undeveloped talent working under Wenger in the past decade
posted on 12/3/17
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 2 minutes ago
I've always liked Theo, he's another example of undeveloped talent working under Wenger in the past decade
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It has fack all to do with Wenger. Wenger's failing was in investing so much faith in such a mediocre talent. The technical foundation in Walcott's game has always been very limited. Abysmal even. You learn that at a young age before turning pro. It doesn't get coached into you at an advanced age. Even highly mediocre English wingers like Wright-Phillips, Aaron Lennon, Downing, Townsend etc have far more technically proficiency. What Walcott has developed is an intelligence in his movement off the ball and greater calmness in advanced positions. If anything Walcott has overachieved massively for such a limited talent and Wenger has extracted the best of the very little talent he has. Look how dreadful he looks for England compared to Arsenal.
posted on 12/3/17
Sheriff John Brown, what absolute BS you are talking.
Walcott has far out performed those players you compare him to. For someone with an alleged lack of technical proficiency he has a hell of a lot of assists to his name - especially in comparison to the inferior players you have mentioned.
He isn't an Ozil/ David Silva type player, but he has never tried to be.
posted on 12/3/17
Also I love the idea scoring goals is "stat padding"
posted on 12/3/17
Walcott>Bale>Hazard , check the stats.
posted on 12/3/17
Theo is getting back to the type of assists and goals levels he had started to attain before his injury. Some of the best in the country from wide. The problem is of course his achievement is not recognised because the team is not performing as a whole. This has dogged him his entire career. His Champions League goals scored are as good as any contemporary, for example Di Maria or Reus. But again Arsenal perform poorly so his contribution does not get noticed.
Its unfortunate that those who made up their minds when he was 19 haven't ever looked at his contribution with an open mind. He is one of the few in the Arsenal team has always turned up against the big teams under pressure be it Chelsea, City or Liverpool in domestic football or Bayern, Barca, Dortmund etc in European football.
posted on 12/3/17
Its unfortunate that those who made up their minds when he was 19
------
They still hang on to the "no footballing brain" nonsense someone spouted amongst a lot more guff on MOTD.
posted on 12/3/17
Probably second to Sanchez in terms of our most productive players and fans still want to hammer him.
He plays on the flanks and has 17 goals this season with another 2 months plus to go
posted on 12/3/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 48 minutes ago
Sheriff John Brown, what absolute BS you are talking.
Walcott has far out performed those players you compare him to. For someone with an alleged lack of technical proficiency he has a hell of a lot of assists to his name - especially in comparison to the inferior players you have mentioned.
He isn't an Ozil/ David Silva type player, but he has never tried to be.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Walcott has created something like 7 chances total this season. Alexis is closing in on 70 and Firmino 60: 2 "strikers". His assists stats over his career is a tad misleading as a way to judge his creative output. No one who actually watches Walcott play can associate him with creativity. Who on earth is comparing him to Silva? Compare him to even Ox or Iwobi, never mind the likes of Mane, and he's far less creative. I probably admit my bias against him made me talk sheite about "padding his stats" against small teams, but my comment about his technical ability is grounded in evident fact.
I also never said he didn't outperform those players. That's pretty much the point I was making to kneerash who was blaming Wenger for Walcott's lack of development: that in spite of having less technical gifts than those players, he has done better than them.
posted on 12/3/17
And all this stuff about Walcott's stats despite being a winger is again VERY misleading. Walcott participates less in our build-up play than most strikers, talk more of midfielders. Walcott is what Chicharito would be if he played as a winger. He averages less touches of the ball than any of our outfield players. Makes less passes. Creates less chances than even our fullbacks (Gibbs who can barely get 5 minutes per game has created almost as much which is facking ridiculous). Doesn't dribble. He basically spends most games trying his one trick: a diagonal run into space to grab a goal.
posted on 12/3/17
Walcott has created something like 7 chances total this season. Alexis is closing in on 70 and Firmino 60: 2 "strikers".
--------------------------------
That is easily explainable. Walcott has often played the furthest forward this season albeit from wide. This is because Alexis is not a natural no.9 and often drops deeper in his natural no.10 position. This means Theo either attacks the goal or he has to double back because the lack of an attacker to pass to in the middle. Its one reason why Bellerin has been so involved in play this season because he is the late runner who Theo often creates extra space for.
However if you were to examine his assists record to when he was playing with RVP before his injury you will find that his output was comparable to Bale (who is now recognised as one of the top 5 players in the world). So its not that he can't do it if the manager or formation requires it of him.
As for 'creativity', no one has ever suggested that he is a no.10 type creative player. In fact he is far more like Di Maria or Freddie or Wiltord who add the final separation to make chances for others or score themselves from wide. Those type of players are just as necessary as an Ozil or Alexis who rely on their spatial awareness.
posted on 12/3/17
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 20 minutes ago
Walcott has created something like 7 chances total this season. Alexis is closing in on 70 and Firmino 60: 2 "strikers".
--------------------------------
That is easily explainable. Walcott has often played the furthest forward this season albeit from wide. This is because Alexis is not a natural no.9 and often drops deeper in his natural no.10 position. This means Theo either attacks the goal or he has to double back because the lack of an attacker to pass to in the middle. Its one reason why Bellerin has been so involved in play this season because he is the late runner who Theo often creates extra space for.
However if you were to examine his assists record to when he was playing with RVP before his injury you will find that his output was comparable to Bale (who is now recognised as one of the top 5 players in the world). So its not that he can't do it if the manager or formation requires it of him.
As for 'creativity', no one has ever suggested that he is a no.10 type creative player. In fact he is far more like Di Maria or Freddie or Wiltord who add the final separation to make chances for others or score themselves from wide. Those type of players are just as necessary as an Ozil or Alexis who rely on their spatial awareness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't buy it one bit. Sadio Mane plays a similar role to Walcott and Firmino plays the same withdrawn striker role as Alexis. Mane still has 42 chances created compared to Walcott's 11. Compare Walcott to even players like Lukaku who you would hardly call creative and he lags behind. Face it, the guy struggles with the rudiments of control, passing and dribbling and hence struggles to create when there's the slightest attention on him. A player like Mane or Alexis or even Sterling would simply dribble through their markers. If Walcott can't perform his one trick of drifting right to centre with his patented diagonal run, he's a hopelessly inept footballer.
Comparing Walcott to Di Maria is ridiculous. They have little in common in style beyond both being quick.
posted on 12/3/17
A player like Mane or Alexis or even Sterling would simply dribble through their markers. If Walcott can't perform his one trick of drifting right to centre with his patented diagonal run, he's a hopelessly inept footballer.
===========
Almost as if this wasn't just a few days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQua2H_53R4
posted on 12/3/17
Agree with Sheriff, Wenger's done well to turn such a limited player into a productive attacker using his speed, movement and finishing. if he was fit and on form for a whole season fair enough, but we already knew at the start he'll be out injured and go through some bad form. Nothing different to the Walcott from the last 6/7 years.
Page 1 of 3