I can only remember one recent season in which we've been heavily reliant on someone in good form and that was Rooney in 2009/10.Much the same as Ibra,Rooney was our main source for goals and generally set the tempo and aggression in our play leading the line.
Our other top scorers that year were Berbatov with a measly 12 and own goal with 10.
He's done much better than I thought he would - I wasn't at all impressed by him in the CL last year at PSG. I think the problem is that the team has to be built to support Zlatan. So he scores a few but overall United aren't scoring enough, and players like Rashford and Martial haven't progressed.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Rooney edges it in 09/10 because other than himself we really were in desperate need of other goals from our front men and those front men were either totally out of form and confidence in Berbatov,a injury plagued Owen and two young forwards in Welbeck and Macheda.
In 2013 we had far more options other than RVP in Rooney,a more mature Welbeck and Hernandez.
Why would Lukaku want to leave a team who float around below the CL places to join another similar outfit?
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was superb that season, of course; but I think the big difference was that when RVP wasn't playing or wasn't firing, we still had Rooney and Hernandez racking up a few goals. I'm guessing, but I'd think 25 or so in the league between them? Plus Kagawa and others were chipping in with a few.
If you look beyond Ibra now, there's really slim pickings - our other strikers I think have three league goals each - and we just don't look nearly as threatening without his presence in and around the box.
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Rooney edges it in 09/10 because other than himself we really were in desperate need of other goals from our front men and those front men were either totally out of form and confidence in Berbatov,a injury plagued Owen and two young forwards in Welbeck and Macheda.
In 2013 we had far more options other than RVP in Rooney,a more mature Welbeck and Hernandez.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're right Genius.
Do you reckon we should try to hang on to Ibra for one more season?
2013 forward line.
RVP 30 goals
Rooney 16
Hernandez 18
Welbeck 2
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was superb that season, of course; but I think the big difference was that when RVP wasn't playing or wasn't firing, we still had Rooney and Hernandez racking up a few goals. I'm guessing, but I'd think 25 or so in the league between them? Plus Kagawa and others were chipping in with a few.
If you look beyond Ibra now, there's really slim pickings - our other strikers I think have three league goals each - and we just don't look nearly as threatening without his presence in and around the box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That season Berba, Owen and Valencia got 25 between them
Rvp was hugely important in 12/13 as he played every game I think and his goals really made the difference
comment by Kamikaze Blue (U7450)
posted 10 minutes ago
He's done much better than I thought he would - I wasn't at all impressed by him in the CL last year at PSG. I think the problem is that the team has to be built to support Zlatan. So he scores a few but overall United aren't scoring enough, and players like Rashford and Martial haven't progressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He scores more than a few, but I think a lot of United fans agree with your general point about the impact his being the focus of our attacking play has, both directly in the style of play, and also indirectly on its impact on Rashford and Martial's development.
comment by joeymancityz. (U4783)
posted 4 minutes ago
Why would Lukaku want to leave a team who float around below the CL places to join another similar outfit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He'd want to join a side who won trophies
That rules out City
and players like Rashford and Martial haven't progressed.
___________________
Just to touch on this point quickly, because it gets made quite often. Martial has definitely gone backwards this season but I do actually feel Rashford has progressed. He isn't scoring with the same regularity as last season but his all round play has improved - I think he looks a more intelligent and rounded player.
I don't see his long term future out wide but I think he's benefitted from his spell out there.
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Rooney edges it in 09/10 because other than himself we really were in desperate need of other goals from our front men and those front men were either totally out of form and confidence in Berbatov,a injury plagued Owen and two young forwards in Welbeck and Macheda.
In 2013 we had far more options other than RVP in Rooney,a more mature Welbeck and Hernandez.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're right Genius.
Do you reckon we should try to hang on to Ibra for one more season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends.If we hang onto him it would indicate,for me anyway,that he'll still be the main man next year.
On one hand he could play off someone like Griezman but on the other hand dont expect someone of similar ilk in Lukaku.Those two simply wont work together and neither would want bench roles.
Basically Ibra will only stay if he's still the main dude.
Zlatan is great in the air, and has a ferocious shot. There is a problem with his movement. He hasn't got any.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Hope he stays, we strengthen out wide and José figures out a way to get our supporting players firing more consistently.
He should be used less next season. If he does stay, I don't imagine he'll play as many games in the League Cup as he did this season because it was the first proper trophy on offer this season and a chance for José to get one on the board immediately which is why I think he went near full strength in every game.
I think Ibra's movement is pretty good.Alot better than Martial's for example.
comment by Kamikaze Blue (U7450)
posted 6 minutes ago
Zlatan is great in the air, and has a ferocious shot. There is a problem with his movement. He hasn't got any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that's true. I've read that comment a lot this season from opposition fans, but not those United fans who watch every game.
He doesn't make surging sprints off the ball to find space between the lines, or the kind of runs to make space for others that Mata and Lingard are so good at.
But he often pops up to pick up the ball and help link play in very deep areas, makes very intelligent runs along and in behind the defensive line, and is a genius at finding small pockets of space in amongst defensive groups.
Reliance stems from not buying midfield players and encouraging them to go beyond the striker.
It has become pretty boring watching Herrera carrick fellaini and to an extent Pogba knocking square balls and retreating for a return pass.
Henri and Mata can do it at times although their goal return is nothing special for a club that dominates possession,Rooney finished,Rashford needing a goal badly and Martial flattering to deceive when the chips are down.
I'll be there Tuesday and with or without an early goal I expect to be relying on the big man but prepared for a revitalised Everton fresh from their annual rollover tummy tickle at Anfield.
As great as Ibra has been, my main issue with his signing was the impact on Martial and Rashford in terms of progression and also our style of play. It is difficult when you gear the team to providing to a big strong forward like Ibra to then change the approach when he is not playing. Whilst we played some good football earlier in the season we are struggling at the moment and have for the last few few months. I do wonder if we'd be better to watch if we sold him and brought in a more mobile forward.
One thing is for sure... Martial needs to start moving off the ball. For a player with pace and power, he too often wants the ball to feet or to come behind the play instead of looking to run the channels and get in behind.
He wants to keep coming narrow to get the ball to feet instead of keeping wide and isolating his fullback as well.
He's starting to frustrate, frankly, and I don't see Mourinho giving him too many chances unless he pulls his finger out, let alone at the #9.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 seconds ago
One thing is for sure... Martial needs to start moving off the ball. For a player with pace and power, he too often wants the ball to feet or to come behind the play instead of looking to run the channels and get in behind.
He wants to keep coming narrow to get the ball to feet instead of keeping wide and isolating his fullback as well.
He's starting to frustrate, frankly, and I don't see Mourinho giving him too many chances unless he pulls his finger out, let alone at the #9.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree.His non existent movement has been a annoyance for me for sometime.
Martial is becoming far too one dimensional.
His entire game seems to be..
Make a run on the left, cut in and try to curl the ball into the keepers left hand corner. Very easy to defend against.
The other thing I'd add about Martial's movement is that when he does make off the ball runs, it tends to be for the sake of it rather than with any intention or purpose.
I've noticed this several times with him, but there was one instant yesterday where Young had the ball, and Martial made a sort of half-arsed run in behind. Young actually played it earlier and it was a decent enough ball that ran out of a goal kick. Had Martial a) ran with purpose and b) anticipated getting the ball, he'd have got there.
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The Ibra dilemma
Page 1 of 2
posted on 2/4/17
I can only remember one recent season in which we've been heavily reliant on someone in good form and that was Rooney in 2009/10.Much the same as Ibra,Rooney was our main source for goals and generally set the tempo and aggression in our play leading the line.
Our other top scorers that year were Berbatov with a measly 12 and own goal with 10.
posted on 2/4/17
He's done much better than I thought he would - I wasn't at all impressed by him in the CL last year at PSG. I think the problem is that the team has to be built to support Zlatan. So he scores a few but overall United aren't scoring enough, and players like Rashford and Martial haven't progressed.
posted on 2/4/17
Rvp in 12/13
posted on 2/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/4/17
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Rooney edges it in 09/10 because other than himself we really were in desperate need of other goals from our front men and those front men were either totally out of form and confidence in Berbatov,a injury plagued Owen and two young forwards in Welbeck and Macheda.
In 2013 we had far more options other than RVP in Rooney,a more mature Welbeck and Hernandez.
posted on 2/4/17
Why would Lukaku want to leave a team who float around below the CL places to join another similar outfit?
posted on 2/4/17
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was superb that season, of course; but I think the big difference was that when RVP wasn't playing or wasn't firing, we still had Rooney and Hernandez racking up a few goals. I'm guessing, but I'd think 25 or so in the league between them? Plus Kagawa and others were chipping in with a few.
If you look beyond Ibra now, there's really slim pickings - our other strikers I think have three league goals each - and we just don't look nearly as threatening without his presence in and around the box.
posted on 2/4/17
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Rooney edges it in 09/10 because other than himself we really were in desperate need of other goals from our front men and those front men were either totally out of form and confidence in Berbatov,a injury plagued Owen and two young forwards in Welbeck and Macheda.
In 2013 we had far more options other than RVP in Rooney,a more mature Welbeck and Hernandez.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're right Genius.
Do you reckon we should try to hang on to Ibra for one more season?
posted on 2/4/17
2013 forward line.
RVP 30 goals
Rooney 16
Hernandez 18
Welbeck 2
posted on 2/4/17
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was superb that season, of course; but I think the big difference was that when RVP wasn't playing or wasn't firing, we still had Rooney and Hernandez racking up a few goals. I'm guessing, but I'd think 25 or so in the league between them? Plus Kagawa and others were chipping in with a few.
If you look beyond Ibra now, there's really slim pickings - our other strikers I think have three league goals each - and we just don't look nearly as threatening without his presence in and around the box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That season Berba, Owen and Valencia got 25 between them
Rvp was hugely important in 12/13 as he played every game I think and his goals really made the difference
posted on 2/4/17
comment by Kamikaze Blue (U7450)
posted 10 minutes ago
He's done much better than I thought he would - I wasn't at all impressed by him in the CL last year at PSG. I think the problem is that the team has to be built to support Zlatan. So he scores a few but overall United aren't scoring enough, and players like Rashford and Martial haven't progressed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He scores more than a few, but I think a lot of United fans agree with your general point about the impact his being the focus of our attacking play has, both directly in the style of play, and also indirectly on its impact on Rashford and Martial's development.
posted on 2/4/17
comment by joeymancityz. (U4783)
posted 4 minutes ago
Why would Lukaku want to leave a team who float around below the CL places to join another similar outfit?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He'd want to join a side who won trophies
That rules out City
posted on 2/4/17
and players like Rashford and Martial haven't progressed.
___________________
Just to touch on this point quickly, because it gets made quite often. Martial has definitely gone backwards this season but I do actually feel Rashford has progressed. He isn't scoring with the same regularity as last season but his all round play has improved - I think he looks a more intelligent and rounded player.
I don't see his long term future out wide but I think he's benefitted from his spell out there.
posted on 2/4/17
comment by rossobianchi #EquipaLulaDaAlegria (U17054)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Genius_AppleCart_Space_Dude_Featuring_Zorak (..We all got a Chicken-Duck-Woman thing, Waiting for us.) (U19099)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Robb Chappelle (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
Rvp in 12/13
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Rooney edges it in 09/10 because other than himself we really were in desperate need of other goals from our front men and those front men were either totally out of form and confidence in Berbatov,a injury plagued Owen and two young forwards in Welbeck and Macheda.
In 2013 we had far more options other than RVP in Rooney,a more mature Welbeck and Hernandez.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you're right Genius.
Do you reckon we should try to hang on to Ibra for one more season?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Depends.If we hang onto him it would indicate,for me anyway,that he'll still be the main man next year.
On one hand he could play off someone like Griezman but on the other hand dont expect someone of similar ilk in Lukaku.Those two simply wont work together and neither would want bench roles.
Basically Ibra will only stay if he's still the main dude.
posted on 2/4/17
Zlatan is great in the air, and has a ferocious shot. There is a problem with his movement. He hasn't got any.
posted on 2/4/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 2/4/17
Hope he stays, we strengthen out wide and José figures out a way to get our supporting players firing more consistently.
He should be used less next season. If he does stay, I don't imagine he'll play as many games in the League Cup as he did this season because it was the first proper trophy on offer this season and a chance for José to get one on the board immediately which is why I think he went near full strength in every game.
posted on 2/4/17
I think Ibra's movement is pretty good.Alot better than Martial's for example.
posted on 2/4/17
comment by Kamikaze Blue (U7450)
posted 6 minutes ago
Zlatan is great in the air, and has a ferocious shot. There is a problem with his movement. He hasn't got any.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that's true. I've read that comment a lot this season from opposition fans, but not those United fans who watch every game.
He doesn't make surging sprints off the ball to find space between the lines, or the kind of runs to make space for others that Mata and Lingard are so good at.
But he often pops up to pick up the ball and help link play in very deep areas, makes very intelligent runs along and in behind the defensive line, and is a genius at finding small pockets of space in amongst defensive groups.
posted on 2/4/17
Reliance stems from not buying midfield players and encouraging them to go beyond the striker.
It has become pretty boring watching Herrera carrick fellaini and to an extent Pogba knocking square balls and retreating for a return pass.
Henri and Mata can do it at times although their goal return is nothing special for a club that dominates possession,Rooney finished,Rashford needing a goal badly and Martial flattering to deceive when the chips are down.
I'll be there Tuesday and with or without an early goal I expect to be relying on the big man but prepared for a revitalised Everton fresh from their annual rollover tummy tickle at Anfield.
posted on 2/4/17
As great as Ibra has been, my main issue with his signing was the impact on Martial and Rashford in terms of progression and also our style of play. It is difficult when you gear the team to providing to a big strong forward like Ibra to then change the approach when he is not playing. Whilst we played some good football earlier in the season we are struggling at the moment and have for the last few few months. I do wonder if we'd be better to watch if we sold him and brought in a more mobile forward.
posted on 2/4/17
One thing is for sure... Martial needs to start moving off the ball. For a player with pace and power, he too often wants the ball to feet or to come behind the play instead of looking to run the channels and get in behind.
He wants to keep coming narrow to get the ball to feet instead of keeping wide and isolating his fullback as well.
He's starting to frustrate, frankly, and I don't see Mourinho giving him too many chances unless he pulls his finger out, let alone at the #9.
posted on 2/4/17
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 seconds ago
One thing is for sure... Martial needs to start moving off the ball. For a player with pace and power, he too often wants the ball to feet or to come behind the play instead of looking to run the channels and get in behind.
He wants to keep coming narrow to get the ball to feet instead of keeping wide and isolating his fullback as well.
He's starting to frustrate, frankly, and I don't see Mourinho giving him too many chances unless he pulls his finger out, let alone at the #9.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree.His non existent movement has been a annoyance for me for sometime.
posted on 2/4/17
Martial is becoming far too one dimensional.
His entire game seems to be..
Make a run on the left, cut in and try to curl the ball into the keepers left hand corner. Very easy to defend against.
posted on 2/4/17
The other thing I'd add about Martial's movement is that when he does make off the ball runs, it tends to be for the sake of it rather than with any intention or purpose.
I've noticed this several times with him, but there was one instant yesterday where Young had the ball, and Martial made a sort of half-arsed run in behind. Young actually played it earlier and it was a decent enough ball that ran out of a goal kick. Had Martial a) ran with purpose and b) anticipated getting the ball, he'd have got there.
Page 1 of 2