But Button did out drive Hamilton

Questionable. Button got past due to Schumacher forcing Lewis onto the grass had that not happened who knows.

To be fair martial artist if your car is slower with DRS than the car infront without DRS it is always going to be hard to get past. There was no point trying to go round him on the corners as Schumacher simply wasn't leaving the space, he could use his faster car to block Hamilton and then in the corners Hamilton couldn't use his faster car due to Schumacher being in the way.

It was quite a simple situation for all to see

You can make some good points martial artist but you need to try and be more fair some times, despite how much certain people deserve to be wound up

alloy mirror

the bottom line was mclaren had the fastest package at monza and hamilton had a car a full second quicker than michaels mercedes , not to mention monza is not only about passing down the pit strait

hamilton had a poor race considering the machine he had underneath him , he was tardy at the green lights , he was tardy when the safety car came in ,and did not have a clue how to get past schumacher when he had too ,

button and schumacher both got by hamilton when they needed to , button easily passed micheal when he had to ,
why was hamilton so poor in passing micheal when he really needed too --
------------ that was my point -

martial artist

I'm not saying Hamilton is the best out there, ignoring the fact he had a bad race, but if the car your overtaking is simply quicker than you in a straight line theres little you can do. You can't really over take some one mid corner as theres only one fast line, and if your falling back on the straights you can't out brake them.

Button saw his chance when Schumacher got a poor get away from the previous corner and managed to make it stick, something Hamilton couldn't manage but it was a fault from Schumacher that let button get into a position to over take.

alloy mirror

as i said there are plenty of other passing opportunities at monza apart from the pit strait especially against a car a full second slower as the mercedes was ,

button had no problem with passing schumacher and hamilton and he didnt need top end speed and a long strait to do it ,
schumacher got past hamilton easily enough and he didnt need top end speed and a long strait to do it
vettel had no problem in passing alonso despite his lack of straitline wallop ,
why could"nt hamilton do it if others could , there were plenty of slower corners to do it ,

the bottom line schumacher has never been one to roll over and wave people pass and lewis on the day was clueless at how to make one stick --

Could've been because Schumacher was moving twice pretty much everytime Hamilton tried to pass. He did it so much Ross Brawn had to warn him. Not his engineer but the team principal. That shows how bad it was.

Button got past Hamilton because Schumacher forced him onto the grass and in doing so screwed himself which helped button.,

Martial Artist, what is it with the "pit strait" that you keep bringing up? I haven't mentioned it, maybe your confusing me for someone else, maybe you read what you want to read.

Monza is a power track, a speed track, would you agree here?
There are many long straights before corners, only 2 of which with DRS. Schumacher on healthy tyres could pull out on the straights and then Hamiltons extra speed in the corners didn't help him.

Are you at least following me, or if not please point out where i am wrong?

Alloy a few posts ago you were rejoicing at how some deserved to be wound up, please follow your own advice

As to Martian Art, he comes from a parallel universe of 1s and 0s, in his dull world its either you pass or you don't pass irrespective of the circumstances, how it is irrelevant. When Massa had his fateful accident, to Martian Art all those that went passed massa he considered them legitimate overtakes. Sadly that is the kind of person you dealing with when it comes to Martian, he is bereft of any shred of rational thinking!

I can't say i would have expected much from a Button fan, just like their hero they are dull, unenterprising and lack dynamism which is what Button has pretty much in common with his fans!

I'm intrigued by Martial's reasoning, if he could explain it clearly then I might be able to accept it more. For now he is just making a childish rant, which from what I've seen on here is your thing!

Alloy, Martial Artist used to be called xiggly on the old 606 and his approach is unique. He makes a point and sticks to it no matter what.

He is a good wum though.

I'm aware of martials previous name, and who he is. But I thought I'd give him a fresh start, the chance to try and put up a real argument.

I look forward to your response to my previous post martial.

alloy mirror

i am fully aware that the W02 had a high top end speed , but with the same V8 the mclaren was also no slouch in a strait line ,
i am also aware that the cars are only on full throttle for 60% of the lap at monza ,
not to mention i am also aware that the mp4/26 was the fastest car all weekend at monza and a full second faster all weekend than the W02

so there was plenty of opportunity for hamilton to pass schumacher in the vastly superiour mp4/26 on the slower sections of the circuit with the superior downforce and traction of the mclaren ,

as i have said before button had no trouble passing micheal at his first attempt and micheal had no trouble repassing hamilton on his first attempt on the slower sections ,
---------- i still cant see why it took hamilton so many laps to pass (which effectively ruined his chance of 2nd place ) when schumacher and button made it look so easy --

I
Comment by Tsheporam
can't say i would have expected much from a Button fan, just like their hero they are dull, unenterprising and lack dynamism which is what Button has pretty much in common with his fans!
___________________________________
Don't you dare presume you know what type of person I am just because I am a Jenson Button. your post are nothing but uneductaed rants that lack evidence. One can only conclude that the only time you will ever be bright is when you are being cremated

tsheporam

non now sonny jim , no need for childish insults is there , i have been fairly civil to you in explaining why i thought hamilton was lack lustre on sunday ,

if you dont agree with me at least try and debate the point with logic and commonsense instead of silly innuendo --

man u devil

you have found me out you little tinker , must admit i am like a rabid dog with a pork chop if i believe i am right about something related to F1 ,
suppose you could call it a personality trait -

Martial you seem to know a lot, but understand very little!

Question: Why could Hamilton not pass Schumacher on the straights

Answer: Schumacher had higher top speed of about 328kpm, when Hamilton with DRS enabled could only reach 327kpm and he was bouncing on the limiter halfway through the straight

Question: Why could Hamilton not pass Schumacher on the slower corners?

Answer: Hamilton tried a couple of times and was 'unfairly' blocked off, even being chopped onto the grass which enabled our fabled opportunist, Button, to pass Hamilton. Jenson Button did not face any stiff resistance from Michael Kamikaze and rightlyfully so, as no one in their right mind considers Button a threat whatsoever!
Evidence:1 You should have seen that for yourself on tv as, if not I suggest you get High Definition TV.
2. Ross Brawn told Michael Kamikaze to give Hamilton space, not once but twice

Question: Why did Schumacher pass Hamilton at the restart with such ease?
Answer: Hamilton as he himself admitted was slow to react and he gave up that position fairly, knowing he would later retake it albeit after a telling off from Ross Brawn for Kamikaze to behave.

Thanking you, Martial, in advance in anticipation of a speedy and well judged response!

tsheporam

fully aware michael had a high top speed , but so did hamilton with his kers and drs , as i said monza is only 60% full throttle with ample opportunity to make a pass on the slower sections with the vastly superiour mclaren which hamilton tried and failed on those slower sections a number of times ,

at the risk of repeating myself we saw how easily button and schumacher negotiated passing maneuvers on the slower sections against hamilton and schumacher respectively ,
---------- what was stopping hamilton from doing likewise -

the bottom line was it was an all time great who hamilton was up against not one of the backmarkers and schumacher if the mood takes him can make it very difficult for anybody and hamilton was clueless as to how to overcome micheals cunning in that situation -
------------- even with the vastly superiour mclaren mp4/26 --

Again because Micheal illegally moved twice on alot of Hamiltons attempts to pass. For some reason you keep ignoring this point. Could be because it ruins your point....

biscuit beale

maybe the bbc put a different race on my tele than they put on yours BB ,

on the race i watched micheal only once moved twice on hamilton in a covering maneuver and even then it was debatable as the moving twice rule is not an exact science as schumacher went back on his racing line -

what was hamilton doing for the 20 or so other laps apart from that one suspect move from michael ?

i'll do my duncan bannatyne bit here,this is where i am on lewis hamilton

i think he is a great racing driver and there will be plenty of great performances left in him yet

as for monza,there's no getting away from the fact that he had a bad day at the office,schumacher didn't do much wrong in my eyes,hard racing yes,but what else do you expect from a multiple world champion

hamilton has been criticsied for not passing schumacher and the fact that this was monza and not monaco,i think people do have a point

it's a funny situation developing at mclaren,that was very much hamilton's team,to be honest,i thought it was a career ending move for button going to mclaren

the feeling i get is that button's stock hasn't really gone up,but hamilton's has actually gone down

128 divided by 3 = your IQ
"schumacher didn't do much wrong in my eyes" goodness, but not so in the eyes of his own boss!

128 divided

alot of logic in your post 128 , i think we can both remember F1 before it became sanatized to the extent it is now ,
in schumachers era and before for that matter when the drivers were harder with each other his covering maneuvers were excepted practice , alas now maybe not so much ,

have to agree with you about hamilton , obviously a decent driver and amongst the quickest of the current generation ,
however the more i watch him the more i can see how flawed he is in some respects ,

Tsheporam is a crazy wum but his last post is right. If he didn't do much wrong then why did Brawn have to tell him off. Not his engineer but the team boss. That shows just how bad it was.