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Why are people surprised?

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comment by Cloggy (U1250)

posted on 30/5/17

Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?

comment by Joejoe (U7141)

posted on 30/5/17

It could also be argued that Kimi should have upped his performance prior to coming in or indeed from the word go, that would have meant two things for Seb either go with him and take more life out his tyres or save his tyres like he did and allow the gap to Kimi to increase. Seb knew exactly what was going on and played it out perfectly.

I can see the pro's and cons for Monaco, its a horrible circuit for "racing" always has been always will be, however its still prob the best circuit to "drive" round. I dont have too many problems with this being in the calendar as it is just a one off.

Cars are getting to big for all circuits tho not just this one.

posted on 30/5/17

comment by Feyenoord Champions (U1250)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass during the pit stop window

comment by mariory (U8059)

posted on 30/5/17

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Feyenoord Champions (U1250)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass during the pit stop window
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree with this.

1. Kimi was clearly struggling on his tyres
2. Bottas and verstappen who were not that far behind had already made their pit stops and were on fresher tyres.
3. Kimi himself was already asking for a pitstop (see point 1)
4. Kimi needed to up his pace but couldn't (see point one). Kimi could only manage low 1min 16s while Seb once in clear air was hitting low 1min 15s.

Seb was by far the faster driver. This was also confirmed by other team bosses.

comment by mariory (U8059)

posted on 30/5/17

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Feyenoord Champions (U1250)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass during the pit stop window
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree with this.

1. Kimi was clearly struggling on his tyres
2. Bottas and verstappen who were not that far behind had already made their pit stops and were on fresher tyres.
3. Kimi himself was already asking for a pitstop (see point 1)
4. Kimi needed to up his pace but couldn't (see point one). Kimi could only manage low 1min 16s while Seb once in clear air was hitting low 1min 15s.

Seb was by far the faster driver. This was also confirmed by other team bosses.

posted on 30/5/17

It was a truly awful race, and I'm someone who will happily watch Monaco no matter what. Although it pains me to say it, something needs to be (artificially) done to make this anachronism more interesting. All I can think of, without delving into the realms to stupidity and madness, is to make Monaco a minimum x-number pit-stop race - for example, 3. I think we all accept that overtaking on track is nigh on impossible so by forcing teams to move away from the one-stopper that Monaco usually is, you'd at least have lots of teams trying all sorts of things, and probably having kittens, when calculating a strategy. At least the audience would have a reason to be interested.

Personally, I can't see too much of a problem with this idea as it's not that much different from making teams use two sets of tyres during a race. It'll never happen but on a track like Monaco, I think it would make the race more interesting.

comment by Cloggy (U1250)

posted on 31/5/17

I'd be miffed too, but you could understand why it was done. You can't overtake on Monaco so Kimi winning would be an advantage for Hamilton in the race for the title with Vettel

posted on 31/5/17

I don't wanna see Monaco taken off the calendar so I would propose that the track layout be tweaked to allow more on track passing.

First thing I'd do is get rid of the chicane that comes right after the tunnel and make that part of the track just one long straight.

I'll get back to you when I think of more.

posted on 1/6/17

comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Feyenoord Champions (U1250)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass during the pit stop window
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree with this.

1. Kimi was clearly struggling on his tyres
2. Bottas and verstappen who were not that far behind had already made their pit stops and were on fresher tyres.
3. Kimi himself was already asking for a pitstop (see point 1)
4. Kimi needed to up his pace but couldn't (see point one). Kimi could only manage low 1min 16s while Seb once in clear air was hitting low 1min 15s.

Seb was by far the faster driver. This was also confirmed by other team bosses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

"I got the bad end of the story today," said Raikkonen, whose last win was the season-opening Australian GP in 2013. "It's still second place but it doesn't count a lot in my books."

While Vettel spoke enthusiastically in the post-race news conference, Raikkonen seemed in a daze.
The Finnish driver either stared ahead or straight down at his feet, only raising his head to answer several questions aimed at getting him to say he'd been hindered by his own team.

"We can always say 'If' as much as we want but it doesn't change things," Raikkonen said, shrugging his shoulders. "I have no idea. Obviously they have reasons for whatever they do."

Raikkonen's dry humor can be piercing when the mood takes him. Although he stopped short of directly criticizing Ferrari, "The Ice Man" clearly had a point to make.

"Obviously I can stop the car if I want," he joked, asking if he could have refused the instruction to pit earlier than Vettel even though he was leading the race.

"But if you don't believe what you have been told and how it will work, it will become very complicated at some point," Raikkonen said. "For myself it could have been better. We've just finished the race and who knows? There's some reason for everything that happens in life."

Kimi disagrees with you I', afraid

posted on 1/6/17

Listen, I'm not saying they can't/shouldn't do it but further proof it was deliberate can be found by looking at how Mercedes handled Rosberg and Hamilton last year when they were working to give them equal strategy. There's no way Hamilton wouls have been given three or four extra laps to perform the overcut.

comment by mariory (U8059)

posted on 1/6/17

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Feyenoord Champions (U1250)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass during the pit stop window
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree with this.

1. Kimi was clearly struggling on his tyres
2. Bottas and verstappen who were not that far behind had already made their pit stops and were on fresher tyres.
3. Kimi himself was already asking for a pitstop (see point 1)
4. Kimi needed to up his pace but couldn't (see point one). Kimi could only manage low 1min 16s while Seb once in clear air was hitting low 1min 15s.

Seb was by far the faster driver. This was also confirmed by other team bosses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kimi disagrees with you I', afraid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe when Kimi made that statement he was still smarting from the loss. In the cold light of day and gking by logic the right man won.

Kimi was not fast enough when it mattered. Simples!
For Kimi to have won the race, Vettel would have had to be held back by the team (which would have endangered him with regards to Ricciardo in the orther red bull. In fact one could make the case that the race lead for Ferrari would have been at risk becos of the red bull's pace vrs Kimi's pace)

Hamilton & Mercedes fans simply have to do it on the track instead of trying to push conspiracy theories in the press or social media.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/may/29/kimi-raikkonen-sebastian-vettel-ferrari-lewis-hamilton-fernando-alonso-monaco-f1

http://www.autosport.com/premium/feature/7548/why-raikkonen-is-at-fault-for-monaco-defeat

And for those trying to pretend like they have forgotten.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/Formula1/f1-bahrain-grand-prix-2017-valtteri-bottas-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-team-orders-a7687126.html%3Famp

posted on 1/6/17

comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day, 18 hours ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
comment by Feyenoord Champions (U1250)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Didnt see the race, what was team order was this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass during the pit stop window
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I completely disagree with this.

1. Kimi was clearly struggling on his tyres
2. Bottas and verstappen who were not that far behind had already made their pit stops and were on fresher tyres.
3. Kimi himself was already asking for a pitstop (see point 1)
4. Kimi needed to up his pace but couldn't (see point one). Kimi could only manage low 1min 16s while Seb once in clear air was hitting low 1min 15s.

Seb was by far the faster driver. This was also confirmed by other team bosses.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kimi disagrees with you I', afraid
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe when Kimi made that statement he was still smarting from the loss. In the cold light of day and gking by logic the right man won.

Kimi was not fast enough when it mattered. Simples!
For Kimi to have won the race, Vettel would have had to be held back by the team (which would have endangered him with regards to Ricciardo in the orther red bull. In fact one could make the case that the race lead for Ferrari would have been at risk becos of the red bull's pace vrs Kimi's pace)

Hamilton & Mercedes fans simply have to do it on the track instead of trying to push conspiracy theories in the press or social media.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/may/29/kimi-raikkonen-sebastian-vettel-ferrari-lewis-hamilton-fernando-alonso-monaco-f1

http://www.autosport.com/premium/feature/7548/why-raikkonen-is-at-fault-for-monaco-defeat

And for those trying to pretend like they have forgotten.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/Formula1/f1-bahrain-grand-prix-2017-valtteri-bottas-lewis-hamilton-mercedes-team-orders-a7687126.html%3Famp
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anderson is entitled to his opinion but the overcut worked and the Ferraris were never threatened by anyone.

Why was Kimi released into traffic?

I'm not sure why you brought up Hamilton and Bottas here, no one is denying that team order.

comment by mariory (U8059)

posted on 1/6/17

Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass.
Why was Kimi released into traffic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he wasn't fast enough when he needed



I'm not sure why you brought up Hamilton and Bottas here, no one is denying that team order.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well because here you have actual team orders that actually gave Hamilton more points. And it's a non event.

Whereas with Ferrari, you have "theories" that certain quaters are attempting to make big news.

Suffice to say the blatant hyprocrisy is startling.

comment by Joejoe (U7141)

posted on 2/6/17

dont take it it personally Mariory, MUDD just has a disliking to Vettel.

I agree with you Kimi didnt have the pace when it mattered most. Not really that much of a surprise Seb was quicker all weekend the only surprise was Kimi pulled it out the bag come quali.

These newer generation cars defo suit someone like Seb more, so he could be now considered favourite for the WDC. Still hope Lewis can turn it around tho and they defo can they will use Bottas as the number 2 very much like Ferrari will use Kimi in the same fashion.

Still think that if you had cars that could follow closely and properly race wheel to wheel that Lewis would come out on top almost all the time.

posted on 2/6/17

comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day ago
Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass.
Why was Kimi released into traffic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he wasn't fast enough when he needed



I'm not sure why you brought up Hamilton and Bottas here, no one is denying that team order.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well because here you have actual team orders that actually gave Hamilton more points. And it's a non event.

Whereas with Ferrari, you have "theories" that certain quaters are attempting to make big news.

Suffice to say the blatant hyprocrisy is startling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was a non event because he was clearly quicker and did not cost his team mate a race win.

You are comparing Apples and oranges

comment by mariory (U8059)

posted on 2/6/17

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day ago
Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass.
Why was Kimi released into traffic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he wasn't fast enough when he needed



I'm not sure why you brought up Hamilton and Bottas here, no one is denying that team order.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well because here you have actual team orders that actually gave Hamilton more points. And it's a non event.

Whereas with Ferrari, you have "theories" that certain quaters are attempting to make big news.

Suffice to say the blatant hyprocrisy is startling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was a non event because he was clearly quicker and did not cost his team mate a race win.

You are comparing Apples and oranges
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No offense but that is nonsensical. The points add up at the end of the season.

posted on 5/6/17

comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 2 days, 14 hours ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day ago
Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass.
Why was Kimi released into traffic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he wasn't fast enough when he needed



I'm not sure why you brought up Hamilton and Bottas here, no one is denying that team order.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well because here you have actual team orders that actually gave Hamilton more points. And it's a non event.

Whereas with Ferrari, you have "theories" that certain quaters are attempting to make big news.

Suffice to say the blatant hyprocrisy is startling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was a non event because he was clearly quicker and did not cost his team mate a race win.

You are comparing Apples and oranges
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No offense but that is nonsensical. The points add up at the end of the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In that race, Hamilton could chase Seb for the win and Bottas had an issue with tyre pressures. It was a team order.

The other a 1 - 2 was going to happen anyway but Kimi was deliberately screwed by the team to help Seb win a race.

Apples and Oranges

comment by Joejoe (U7141)

posted on 5/6/17

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 2 days, 14 hours ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
comment by mariory (U8059)
posted 1 day ago
Ferrari strategically brought Kimi in early and released him into traffic allowing Seb to make a pass.
Why was Kimi released into traffic?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he wasn't fast enough when he needed



I'm not sure why you brought up Hamilton and Bottas here, no one is denying that team order.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well because here you have actual team orders that actually gave Hamilton more points. And it's a non event.

Whereas with Ferrari, you have "theories" that certain quaters are attempting to make big news.

Suffice to say the blatant hyprocrisy is startling.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It was a non event because he was clearly quicker and did not cost his team mate a race win.

You are comparing Apples and oranges
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No offense but that is nonsensical. The points add up at the end of the season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In that race, Hamilton could chase Seb for the win and Bottas had an issue with tyre pressures. It was a team order.

The other a 1 - 2 was going to happen anyway but Kimi was deliberately screwed by the team to help Seb win a race.

Apples and Oranges
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kimi was not quick enough fact ... he was unable to pull out a big enough gap whilst he was in the lead the pace difference on the same tires between Vettel and Kimi once Kimi came in was night and day. Kimi aint daft he knows the game well enough if he had life in his tyres and could up the pace before his pitstop he would have. Besides it is a moot point.. both drivers are employed by a team its a team sport even if team orders were used whats wrong with that its their duty as employees of the team, I dont care what the teams or drivers (not just from ferrari but also Merc) Vettel is no1 driver Kimi is no 2, Lewis is no1 and Bottas no2. And rightly so

comment by Joejoe (U7141)

posted on 5/6/17

*tyres damn autocorrect !

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