comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 4 hours, 38 minutes ago
Tu Meke forget his goals for a minute. If they are your focus, as opposed to the expense they've cone at, you'll never see why he's damaging. I'm not denying he's a cracking footballer who scores loads for us. My point is that if he wasn't such a pillock in how he goes about it, then he'd score even more AND others in the team would too. Last season when he was bullying Iwobi, stamping on his confidence when he was struggling. A different attitude sees him criticise without the confidence smashing thus helping and improving the young teammate. All he done his way was make the kid worse.
The biggest issue with Sanchez is that when EVERYBODY was playing badly, he ranted and raved at everybody else as though they were making him look bad. He was making his own mistakes, making himself look poor by his standards but rather than swallow his portion of blame pie, he threw it to stick on everyone else. That will just plainly and simply annoy his teammates.
"When we win its because I'm amazing and when we lose its you lot's fault cos you're all rubbish." Sums up Alexis' attitude. It's an insulting and offensive one and the bad feeling and subsequently bad atmosphere it envokes is what "damages" the team. You want us to win the title? Well on the whole title winning teams are well gelled harmonious units. It's impossible to get one of those with a player with that attitude featuring frequently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of this is pure conjecture I'm afraid.
Again, I'd be more concerned that the rest of the squad are so sissy-fied that they let one man bring them down like that. Get a grip.
What a load of bol|ocks, Pep. You don't honestly believe any of the nonsense you have written do you?
Even if what you have said is true, the attitude you describe also describes the best footballer on the planet - possibly ever.
Absolutely nothing about Sanchez damages the team, bar him leaving.
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 7 hours, 44 minutes ago
It's been well documented that Sanchez is hard to deal and that most of the players are not great fans. However, I just don't see an attainable player out there that can come in and be an adequate replacement.
As for lacazette, I just hope it's not at Giroud expense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like that's exactly what it will be:
http://news.arseblog.com/2017/06/lyon-confirm-olivier-giroud-interest-as-gunners-eye-lacazette/
It's an insulting and offensive one and the bad feeling and subsequently bad atmosphere it envokes is what "damages" the team. You want us to win the title? Well on the whole title winning teams are well gelled harmonious units. It's impossible to get one of those with a player with that attitude featuring frequently.
----------------------------------------------------
I don't buy this. Cole and Sheringham infamously hated each other and that partnership was immense for man united. In most teams (successful or not) there will be players that don't get on.
It's clear that Sanchez is a winner, and I personally wish we had more players like him. If we did then perhaps we would have made more of a go at winning the premier league in recent years. Instead of the mentally weak players we seem to have many of at the moment.
Selling Giroud would be a huge mistake
comment by 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 (U18355)
posted 52 minutes ago
Selling Giroud would be a huge mistake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would keeping Giroud as number one (at the expense of Lacazette, Auba etc) be a bigger mistake though?
Unless we are signing the likes of higuain, Aguero, Suarez etc, I don't really see the need to sell Giroud.
I would get rid of Welbeck before thinking about Giroud
I have never so many conflicted posters. Giroud is a good player. Though not good enough for Arsenal. Never has been. Even Wenger now accepts that. So the argument goes he should stop his career to sit on the bench at Arsenal. I didn't think it would be valid last summer. But he stayed. Probably for a jump in wages and signing on bonus that he got last autumn. Giroud can start in the much slower French league. So why should he sit on the bench adding nothing and wasting whatever career he has left?
So why should he sit on the bench adding nothing and wasting whatever career he has left?
------
He added a lot last season.
He signed a long contract, that is why he has to stay. And he will get a lot of game time considering our hectic schedule.
Too many people forget it is a squad game and a long season.
Dj its a straw-man argument. The argument goes 'there were times when Alexis didn't do the job up front and Giroud had an effect when he came on or started when Alexis was tired'. How do you know another player wouldn't have done a better job in that position? I have said to you before and its completely relevant that I do not believe in having old players sitting on the bench. Bench and backups should always be youngsters. That way you don't block their progression. Younger players lack consistency but can be very good filling in.
I do not believe in having old players sitting on the bench.
==========
Yo don't, but title winning managers do! Champions League winning managers do!
If your bench and back up players are youth then you are going to spend a lot of the season with inexperienced players being relied on. Horrible situation to be in.
You may have got away with it in pre-PL times, when the 11 starters were pretty much ever present. These days, however, it is very much a squad game where you need great strength in all areas to be successful.
How do you know another player wouldn't have done a better job in that position?
======
When you look at how the other top teams back up strikers did you see the difficulties very expensive players have playing that role.
Yo don't, but title winning managers do! Champions League winning managers do!
--------------------------
And there are equal amount of managers who have also won the Champions Leagues and national leagues who don't. There is no correct formula thats why stated last season that I was ok with Giroud as backup if he didn't leave as I believed he would have. I have seen very few good players who are willing to be demoted. I said the same thing about Gibbs last season. I was against Wenger blocking him going to West Ham. What having older players on the bench does is block younger players. The usual argument to counter that is experience and winning mentality. Which just doesn't apply to someone like Giroud. Its not like keeping Vieira or Campbell around to maintain a winning mentality.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
How do you know another player wouldn't have done a better job in that position?
======
When you look at how the other top teams back up strikers did you see the difficulties very expensive players have playing that role.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what you mean.
Which just doesn't apply to someone like Giroud
=======
Girouds experience and winning mentality served us very well from the bench last season...
Why don't you just say "I hate Giroud and want him out of the club no matter what". Would save a lot of time if you are honest, rather than all this false justification.
Why don't you just say "I hate Giroud and want him out of the club no matter what". Would save a lot of time if you are honest, rather than all this false justification.
---------------------------
Why would I admit to something that is not true.
Girouds experience and winning mentality served us very well from the bench last season...
--------------------------
And it is the reason why our collapse started. Lets take whatever was said on face value. Lets accept Wenger started Giroud after Alexis refused to play striker. As a consequence our style of play altered. There was no movement up front and our all the problems that afflicted us in previous seasons, returned. The loss to Watford at home was the crucial turning point. It is why Wenger started Welbeck whenever possible after that, even with a lack of fitness.
Our collapse started before Giroud came in.
Hmmm,
18 points from 30 in the 10 games before Girouds first start of the season.
13 from 15 in Girouds first 5 starts.
Yet that 13 points is the collapse?
The collapse started with the loss to Watford at home. That was the turning point in our season.
Do you accept that Wenger started Welbeck ahead of Giroud, Welbeck's fitness permitting?
Do you accept that Wenger started Welbeck ahead of Giroud, Welbeck's fitness permitting?
======
Yes, for example in games like the embarrassing defeats to West Brom and Crystal Palace.
Giroud only played 45 minutes against Watford, a game in which we collapsed defensively after conceding a weak opener early on. 2 down after 13 minutes is nothing to do with Giroud. That is a weakness that has been shown many, many times in recent seasons irrelevant to Giroud being involved.
Our season, even when Giroud hadn't started a single game, was blighted by back to back poor performances. From the opening two games, to the struggle v Swansea and subsequent goalless draw with Boro. The back to back poor performances v Spurs and United where we were lucky to come away with 2 points (partly in thanks to Giroud). To the back to back defeats against Everton and City. All with Alexis playing up front.
Hes quality and would have him at Liverpool. The fact Atletico Madrid were wanting him says all you need to know imo just have to look at the forwards they've bought and sold over the years.
The slow starts that have afflicted us in the past are precisely because we sit too deep without the ability to get the ball out of our half with Giroud leading the line. We have never been able to play counter attacking football with Giroud. Its very difficult to do so when your striker cannot offer a threat behind the opposition. So teams push up on us with impunity and cut of the angles in midfield. That is exaggerated in first half of games when the opposition are fresh and have a high work rate. What you refer to as my dislike for Giroud is actually my consistent view from the season after he joined that Wenger's teams cannot function with a slow focal striker. And I don't mean someone who can run 100m in 9.9s. I am referring to being unable to offer a threat beyond the last man of the opposition. In fact I have never disliked Giroud. I have stated for years that he was good enough to play for PSG and thought he would replace Ibra 3 years ago.
I knew you would bring up the Everton and City games. In both those games and in fact even against Bayern 1st leg we dominated and were ahead. Most teams are then able to finish off teams from that position. We were not able to do that in my opinion because of not having a decent ball winner in midfield instead of Coquelin. Alexis starting as striker was able to mostly negate teams ability to compress space in our half in the first half. However lacking a top quality ball winner in midfield made us vulnerable to not being able to sit on leads.
The slow starts that have afflicted us in the past are precisely because we sit too deep without the ability to get the ball out of our half with Giroud leading the line
=========
Yet it happened with Giroud sitting in the stands for half a season and Alexis starting up front.
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
The slow starts that have afflicted us in the past are precisely because we sit too deep without the ability to get the ball out of our half with Giroud leading the line
=========
Yet it happened with Giroud sitting in the stands for half a season and Alexis starting up front.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It mostly didn't work against us which is why we were competing for the league whilst Alexis was striker to not being able to make the top 4 when he wasn't. Obviously the times when it hurt us, and you mentioned Burnley or Boro previously in other threads was when teams sat back and defended on mass. In those games Alexis started to hunt the ball after being frustrated by the lack of good possession in the opposing half rather than maintaining his position. Thats where his lack of experience as a striker hurt us in my opinion. Its why I wanted us to sign Suarez, Benzema, Higuain, Cavani, Icardi in the past as they were used to playing as striker and had the ability and discipline to come short or go long depending on what the opposition was doing.
Sign in if you want to comment
Signing Lacazette is pointless
Page 4 of 5
posted on 24/6/17
comment by Pep The Final Straw!! (Formerly WB2) (U8276)
posted 4 hours, 38 minutes ago
Tu Meke forget his goals for a minute. If they are your focus, as opposed to the expense they've cone at, you'll never see why he's damaging. I'm not denying he's a cracking footballer who scores loads for us. My point is that if he wasn't such a pillock in how he goes about it, then he'd score even more AND others in the team would too. Last season when he was bullying Iwobi, stamping on his confidence when he was struggling. A different attitude sees him criticise without the confidence smashing thus helping and improving the young teammate. All he done his way was make the kid worse.
The biggest issue with Sanchez is that when EVERYBODY was playing badly, he ranted and raved at everybody else as though they were making him look bad. He was making his own mistakes, making himself look poor by his standards but rather than swallow his portion of blame pie, he threw it to stick on everyone else. That will just plainly and simply annoy his teammates.
"When we win its because I'm amazing and when we lose its you lot's fault cos you're all rubbish." Sums up Alexis' attitude. It's an insulting and offensive one and the bad feeling and subsequently bad atmosphere it envokes is what "damages" the team. You want us to win the title? Well on the whole title winning teams are well gelled harmonious units. It's impossible to get one of those with a player with that attitude featuring frequently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of this is pure conjecture I'm afraid.
Again, I'd be more concerned that the rest of the squad are so sissy-fied that they let one man bring them down like that. Get a grip.
posted on 24/6/17
What a load of bol|ocks, Pep. You don't honestly believe any of the nonsense you have written do you?
Even if what you have said is true, the attitude you describe also describes the best footballer on the planet - possibly ever.
Absolutely nothing about Sanchez damages the team, bar him leaving.
posted on 25/6/17
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 7 hours, 44 minutes ago
It's been well documented that Sanchez is hard to deal and that most of the players are not great fans. However, I just don't see an attainable player out there that can come in and be an adequate replacement.
As for lacazette, I just hope it's not at Giroud expense
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Looks like that's exactly what it will be:
http://news.arseblog.com/2017/06/lyon-confirm-olivier-giroud-interest-as-gunners-eye-lacazette/
posted on 25/6/17
It's an insulting and offensive one and the bad feeling and subsequently bad atmosphere it envokes is what "damages" the team. You want us to win the title? Well on the whole title winning teams are well gelled harmonious units. It's impossible to get one of those with a player with that attitude featuring frequently.
----------------------------------------------------
I don't buy this. Cole and Sheringham infamously hated each other and that partnership was immense for man united. In most teams (successful or not) there will be players that don't get on.
It's clear that Sanchez is a winner, and I personally wish we had more players like him. If we did then perhaps we would have made more of a go at winning the premier league in recent years. Instead of the mentally weak players we seem to have many of at the moment.
posted on 25/6/17
Selling Giroud would be a huge mistake
posted on 25/6/17
comment by 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 (U18355)
posted 52 minutes ago
Selling Giroud would be a huge mistake
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Would keeping Giroud as number one (at the expense of Lacazette, Auba etc) be a bigger mistake though?
posted on 25/6/17
Unless we are signing the likes of higuain, Aguero, Suarez etc, I don't really see the need to sell Giroud.
I would get rid of Welbeck before thinking about Giroud
posted on 25/6/17
I have never so many conflicted posters. Giroud is a good player. Though not good enough for Arsenal. Never has been. Even Wenger now accepts that. So the argument goes he should stop his career to sit on the bench at Arsenal. I didn't think it would be valid last summer. But he stayed. Probably for a jump in wages and signing on bonus that he got last autumn. Giroud can start in the much slower French league. So why should he sit on the bench adding nothing and wasting whatever career he has left?
posted on 25/6/17
So why should he sit on the bench adding nothing and wasting whatever career he has left?
------
He added a lot last season.
He signed a long contract, that is why he has to stay. And he will get a lot of game time considering our hectic schedule.
Too many people forget it is a squad game and a long season.
posted on 25/6/17
Dj its a straw-man argument. The argument goes 'there were times when Alexis didn't do the job up front and Giroud had an effect when he came on or started when Alexis was tired'. How do you know another player wouldn't have done a better job in that position? I have said to you before and its completely relevant that I do not believe in having old players sitting on the bench. Bench and backups should always be youngsters. That way you don't block their progression. Younger players lack consistency but can be very good filling in.
posted on 25/6/17
I do not believe in having old players sitting on the bench.
==========
Yo don't, but title winning managers do! Champions League winning managers do!
If your bench and back up players are youth then you are going to spend a lot of the season with inexperienced players being relied on. Horrible situation to be in.
You may have got away with it in pre-PL times, when the 11 starters were pretty much ever present. These days, however, it is very much a squad game where you need great strength in all areas to be successful.
posted on 25/6/17
How do you know another player wouldn't have done a better job in that position?
======
When you look at how the other top teams back up strikers did you see the difficulties very expensive players have playing that role.
posted on 25/6/17
Yo don't, but title winning managers do! Champions League winning managers do!
--------------------------
And there are equal amount of managers who have also won the Champions Leagues and national leagues who don't. There is no correct formula thats why stated last season that I was ok with Giroud as backup if he didn't leave as I believed he would have. I have seen very few good players who are willing to be demoted. I said the same thing about Gibbs last season. I was against Wenger blocking him going to West Ham. What having older players on the bench does is block younger players. The usual argument to counter that is experience and winning mentality. Which just doesn't apply to someone like Giroud. Its not like keeping Vieira or Campbell around to maintain a winning mentality.
posted on 25/6/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 8 minutes ago
How do you know another player wouldn't have done a better job in that position?
======
When you look at how the other top teams back up strikers did you see the difficulties very expensive players have playing that role.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what you mean.
posted on 25/6/17
Which just doesn't apply to someone like Giroud
=======
Girouds experience and winning mentality served us very well from the bench last season...
Why don't you just say "I hate Giroud and want him out of the club no matter what". Would save a lot of time if you are honest, rather than all this false justification.
posted on 25/6/17
Why don't you just say "I hate Giroud and want him out of the club no matter what". Would save a lot of time if you are honest, rather than all this false justification.
---------------------------
Why would I admit to something that is not true.
Girouds experience and winning mentality served us very well from the bench last season...
--------------------------
And it is the reason why our collapse started. Lets take whatever was said on face value. Lets accept Wenger started Giroud after Alexis refused to play striker. As a consequence our style of play altered. There was no movement up front and our all the problems that afflicted us in previous seasons, returned. The loss to Watford at home was the crucial turning point. It is why Wenger started Welbeck whenever possible after that, even with a lack of fitness.
posted on 25/6/17
Our collapse started before Giroud came in.
posted on 25/6/17
Not it didn't.
posted on 25/6/17
Hmmm,
18 points from 30 in the 10 games before Girouds first start of the season.
13 from 15 in Girouds first 5 starts.
Yet that 13 points is the collapse?
posted on 25/6/17
The collapse started with the loss to Watford at home. That was the turning point in our season.
Do you accept that Wenger started Welbeck ahead of Giroud, Welbeck's fitness permitting?
posted on 25/6/17
Do you accept that Wenger started Welbeck ahead of Giroud, Welbeck's fitness permitting?
======
Yes, for example in games like the embarrassing defeats to West Brom and Crystal Palace.
Giroud only played 45 minutes against Watford, a game in which we collapsed defensively after conceding a weak opener early on. 2 down after 13 minutes is nothing to do with Giroud. That is a weakness that has been shown many, many times in recent seasons irrelevant to Giroud being involved.
Our season, even when Giroud hadn't started a single game, was blighted by back to back poor performances. From the opening two games, to the struggle v Swansea and subsequent goalless draw with Boro. The back to back poor performances v Spurs and United where we were lucky to come away with 2 points (partly in thanks to Giroud). To the back to back defeats against Everton and City. All with Alexis playing up front.
posted on 25/6/17
Hes quality and would have him at Liverpool. The fact Atletico Madrid were wanting him says all you need to know imo just have to look at the forwards they've bought and sold over the years.
posted on 25/6/17
The slow starts that have afflicted us in the past are precisely because we sit too deep without the ability to get the ball out of our half with Giroud leading the line. We have never been able to play counter attacking football with Giroud. Its very difficult to do so when your striker cannot offer a threat behind the opposition. So teams push up on us with impunity and cut of the angles in midfield. That is exaggerated in first half of games when the opposition are fresh and have a high work rate. What you refer to as my dislike for Giroud is actually my consistent view from the season after he joined that Wenger's teams cannot function with a slow focal striker. And I don't mean someone who can run 100m in 9.9s. I am referring to being unable to offer a threat beyond the last man of the opposition. In fact I have never disliked Giroud. I have stated for years that he was good enough to play for PSG and thought he would replace Ibra 3 years ago.
I knew you would bring up the Everton and City games. In both those games and in fact even against Bayern 1st leg we dominated and were ahead. Most teams are then able to finish off teams from that position. We were not able to do that in my opinion because of not having a decent ball winner in midfield instead of Coquelin. Alexis starting as striker was able to mostly negate teams ability to compress space in our half in the first half. However lacking a top quality ball winner in midfield made us vulnerable to not being able to sit on leads.
posted on 25/6/17
The slow starts that have afflicted us in the past are precisely because we sit too deep without the ability to get the ball out of our half with Giroud leading the line
=========
Yet it happened with Giroud sitting in the stands for half a season and Alexis starting up front.
posted on 25/6/17
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 1 minute ago
The slow starts that have afflicted us in the past are precisely because we sit too deep without the ability to get the ball out of our half with Giroud leading the line
=========
Yet it happened with Giroud sitting in the stands for half a season and Alexis starting up front.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It mostly didn't work against us which is why we were competing for the league whilst Alexis was striker to not being able to make the top 4 when he wasn't. Obviously the times when it hurt us, and you mentioned Burnley or Boro previously in other threads was when teams sat back and defended on mass. In those games Alexis started to hunt the ball after being frustrated by the lack of good possession in the opposing half rather than maintaining his position. Thats where his lack of experience as a striker hurt us in my opinion. Its why I wanted us to sign Suarez, Benzema, Higuain, Cavani, Icardi in the past as they were used to playing as striker and had the ability and discipline to come short or go long depending on what the opposition was doing.
Page 4 of 5