Carvajal may have to retire such a shame

Really? That's terrible. I thought his heart problem wasn't that bad.

comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted about an hour ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the Spanish government in breach of EU legislation?

Harming protesting civilians. Banning MPs from debating.
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I don't know. What part of EU legislation?

The right to protest is enshrined in Spanish law too, of course. If you want to stage a protest, as in a march for example, there are legal channels to seek authorisation.

The issue is that this wasn't a protest, it was an attempt to hold a referendum that even Catalonia's own high court had declared illegal.

The decision to send in police from outside Catalonia to confiscate the voting booths and close polling stations (which, in many cases, had been illegally occupied) was crass and altogether unnecessary, imo, but that doesn't mean it was against the law.

It is, in fact, the Catalonian authorities who've broken all kinds of laws along the way.

The protesters seen on all that video footage were standing in the way of the police doing the job they'd been sent in to do. Either way though, every agent that could be deemed to have used excessive force -like the ape who was filmed jumping off a flight of stairs boot-first into a protester's back- ought to have the book thrown at him.

I personally strongly disapprove of the actions taken by the gov't, but disagreeing with them doesn't necessarily make them illegal.
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Law involving physically assaulting their own citizens when they are peacefully protesting

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comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 13 hours, 6 minutes ago

Law involving physically assaulting their own citizens when they are peacefully protesting
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The protesters were illegally occupying public buildings and trying to stage a referendum that not only the highest national court but even their own regional high court had deemed illegal.

Regrettable as I find it, and even though I'm not a legal expert, I don't believe they were actually acting outside Spanish or European law.

Whether something should be legal or not is an entirely different issue. As food for thought:

Slavery was legal.
Feudalism was legal.
Colinialism was legal.
Fascism was legal.
Apartheid was legal.
All kinds of dictatorships have been legal.
Whatever is deemed legal or illegal is a question of power, not justice.

Apologies it took a while to find but this is the tweet I read on the matter:

‘Dear @JunckerEU :
Article 7 of the European Union Treaty
"Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population."
Please share.

#SpainOutOfEU
#ShameOnSpain
#CatalanReferendum’

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 4 minutes ago
Apologies it took a while to find but this is the tweet I read on the matter:

‘Dear @JunckerEU :
Article 7 of the European Union Treaty
"Suspension of any Member State that uses military force on its own population."
Please share.

#SpainOutOfEU
#ShameOnSpain
#CatalanReferendum’
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Who the fuq is Liz Castro and why should I care what she tweets?

I was just saying that apparently beating your own citizens is in vioation of EU laws, as quoted.

She's spouting rubbish though.

She's quoting some article about "using military force" and clinging to an erroneous, loose definition of the Guardia Civil as a military force.

The Spanish Civil guard operate as a police force every single day in Spain, and have done for over 150 years. If there'd been a tweet like that for every time a Guardia Civil had laid a hand on a Spanish citizen, the internet would be broken by now.

I was just asking your interperation of it based on a better knowledge of everything Spain related and what you made of it, thats all.

itsonlyanangry

I thought you were playing dumb just to antagonise me.

For a bit more detail, Edin, even though this whole Catalonia thing has suddenly hit the front pages internationally because of those scenes last weekend, it has in fact been the main news item virtually on a daily basis in Spain for years now.

It's the same tedious arguments, lies and half truths repeated over and over again on both sides.

The mainstream national parties are exasperatingly stubborn on the issue of self-determination, but they are right, unfortunately, when they point to the constitution and say they have the law on their side.


That said, Spain's left-wing movements are however in favour of self-determination, and there's an increasing number of voices in the centre-left (Socialist Party/PSOE, which in modern times has opposed self-determination) who are also calling for constitutional reform.

Using the left as leverage to negotiate agreements with the centre-left would be the best path to solve the Catalan issue, but up until now it hasn't really suited the independentists' long-term goal, which is not self-determination but, of course, independence.

Quite simply, they needed to polarise the debate as much as possible in order to win people over to their cause because, as much as they strive to make everyone else believe, they were actually a minority in Catalonia, and to that end Spain's conservatives -also interested in the aforementioned polarisation- have proved the perfect foil.

Will this cause a more left wing government to come into power as a result?

comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 3 minutes ago
Will this cause a more left wing government to come into power as a result?
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Probably not. As I remarked to Darren earlier, people like a bit of patriotic chest-beating.

More so if it's someone else's chest getting beaten.

Lol
Fair nuff cheers for the insight

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Obviously ignoring anything 4za has to say on the matter; but has Higuain flopped since joining Juve? Good goal return but overall performances not been great

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comment by #4zA - #savethedonkeys (U19575)
posted 18 hours, 21 minutes ago
he wants Napoli to be as succesful and good as his movies?

we will have to go back to Serie C to achieve that ffs
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Exactly. His movies are crap.