IMO football continues to progressively advance with time, tactically and fitness-wise. Never before in the history of the game have teams defended with the numbers or tenacity than they do in the modern game. This is just the nature of sports, improvements in technology, training, our understanding of sports science, technical innovation etc. mean standards gradually increase over time. They never go backwards. Look at the progression of the 100m world record for example. Not just in sports, but in general life. People live longer, trains become faster, telescopes can see further out into space etc.
I'm not qualified enough to offer an opinion on the entire career of past players like Maradona, Pele, Puskas etc. But I do suspect that if you plumped them right into the modern game with zero preparation, they would struggle. This is not to say they weren't great - they undoubtedly were, but they were just a product of their (arguably less advanced) time.
To give an analogy, Jim Hines was the first sub-10 second 100m sprinter, and probably the greatest sprinter of his era. You could make an argument for him being the greatest sprinter of all time, relative to his era, but there's no way you'd convince anyone that he was a better sprinter than Usain Bolt on an absolute level, the records prove otherwise. You could argue that with modern training methods, diet, sportswear, he could match or eclipse Bolt, but that's all speculation. I feel the same way about past footballers.
comment by FREAK MEAT (U3245)
posted 3 minutes ago
Maradona simply done things that nobody else could
_____________________________
such as?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of the stuff shown here
https://youtu.be/w21dkqtBwXk
comment by FREAK MEAT (U3245)
posted 15 minutes ago
Maradona simply done things that nobody else could
_____________________________
such as?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For starters, the way he rode a tackle and carried on. You never see anyone able to do that in the way he did in the modern game. People would try to take him down with professional fouls and he would step over them almost as if they were not there sometimes and carry on. If the defenders did that now it would always be a straight red card and the players now would probably need to go to hospital.
That is partly down to the development of the game though as Renoog said. the sprinter comparison is wrong though as running as faast as you can is running as fasst as you can in any time. with the changes in football and protection of players it has gone from a game where players needed a physical ability to take some punishment to a game where they are virtually untouchable and as such they can train and develop their bodies differently. Modern players are primarily athletes whereas older players would have been part athlete and part able to deal with physical stuff. Put Messi or Ronaldo in a game in the 70's and they probably go off injured in the first half. Roll around on the round like they do now and they would have been laughed at.
A friend of mines rugby teacher used to say "Football's for fairies". It really is these days.
Put Messi or Ronaldo in a game in the 70's and they probably go off injured in the first half. Roll around on the round like they do now and they would have been laughed at. -------------------------------------
If you believe this then you may be the dumbest poster i've come across on this forum, which takes some doing.
Absolute nonsense basing your argument on old age myths.
Do you think rugby is harder now or then? Because even in the 90s a lot of rugby players were just fat.
Sportsmen and stronger, fitter and quicker than ever before. You obviously have not seen messi live or at full flight to see the way he bounces off people and keeps going.
I hope your wumming.
That Maradona video posted above is hilarious. While his talent is incredible, and he has indeed to cope with horrible lunging tackles flying about all over the pitch, the defensive organisation is laughable. Players taking it in turns to charge out of position and try to take him on 1-on-1 instead of maintaining structure and shepherding him into less threatening areas of the pitch.
This is why the argument that X player wouldn't have been able to cope in the 60s/70s/80s makes me laugh. Defending has got a lot more advanced since those days. All 10 outfield players do it these days, covering increasing distances and with better structure off-the-ball. Granted it's not as brutal as it was back then. But brutal doesn't equal harder.
Cruyf was the greatest ever. As a player, coach, manager,tactician and innovator. He changed the game as we know it, no other player did that.
Yes, Pele,maradonna etc had some great skills, but Crufy had all that and so much more. He didnt just go on solo mazy runs against weak defences, he set up the whole team around him, helping his team outplay the opposition and win the match was his thing.
now that is special.
Defending has largely changed because of the changes in the laws. While I dont think football has changed as much as some people do, tackles are far more harshly judged now. Defending had to change to incorporate the protection given to players increasing over the years. Defenders could no longer throw themselves in and if they took the player out it became a red card offence far far easier. So yes, defending has changed but its largely due to changes in the laws of the game.
Ive even gone as far as to look youtube videos of Messi and Maradonna today to compare them. Maradonna was far better at riding a tackle as if it didnt happen than Messi is. I remember over the years seeing interviews with players who said that they didnt just try to win the ball off Maradonna but tried to foul him to stop him and couldnt. Most of Messi's top skills and goals on youtube have defenders backing off him and ehrn they do out challenges in he certainly does not have the same ability to avoid it as Maradonna.
And yes, Cruyff was a great player but to many didnt have the same wow factor.
Yes, Maradonna could ride a tackle. Cruyff didn't need too as much,as they never got that close.
If you remeber the Dutch WC teams of 74 and 78, with Cruyff leading them ( apart from two dodgy games!) They played in a totally new way - total football. Which Cruyff went on to develop as he reinvented Barca,and the rest is history. Perhaps you have to be a certain age to remember football before and after Cruyff!
Maradonna and others were great players yes, but that is all. Cruyff was every bit as good - better many say because he invented the moves the others use to look good.
The Cruyff turn is still a 'thing',what moves are named after Maraddona? handball? Ronaldo is famous for..posing and falling over?
To be the THE g.o.a.t you have to be more than just good on youtube, in certain matches..
Cruyff was a genius on the field, an innovator in management and coaching,and a great ambassador for the sport off it.
The rest are just wannabes.
If you want to single out a player on skill only, but still include play making of course, Bergkamp ticks all the boxes.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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posted on 21/9/17
IMO football continues to progressively advance with time, tactically and fitness-wise. Never before in the history of the game have teams defended with the numbers or tenacity than they do in the modern game. This is just the nature of sports, improvements in technology, training, our understanding of sports science, technical innovation etc. mean standards gradually increase over time. They never go backwards. Look at the progression of the 100m world record for example. Not just in sports, but in general life. People live longer, trains become faster, telescopes can see further out into space etc.
I'm not qualified enough to offer an opinion on the entire career of past players like Maradona, Pele, Puskas etc. But I do suspect that if you plumped them right into the modern game with zero preparation, they would struggle. This is not to say they weren't great - they undoubtedly were, but they were just a product of their (arguably less advanced) time.
To give an analogy, Jim Hines was the first sub-10 second 100m sprinter, and probably the greatest sprinter of his era. You could make an argument for him being the greatest sprinter of all time, relative to his era, but there's no way you'd convince anyone that he was a better sprinter than Usain Bolt on an absolute level, the records prove otherwise. You could argue that with modern training methods, diet, sportswear, he could match or eclipse Bolt, but that's all speculation. I feel the same way about past footballers.
posted on 21/9/17
comment by FREAK MEAT (U3245)
posted 3 minutes ago
Maradona simply done things that nobody else could
_____________________________
such as?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of the stuff shown here
posted on 21/9/17
https://youtu.be/w21dkqtBwXk
posted on 21/9/17
comment by FREAK MEAT (U3245)
posted 15 minutes ago
Maradona simply done things that nobody else could
_____________________________
such as?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For starters, the way he rode a tackle and carried on. You never see anyone able to do that in the way he did in the modern game. People would try to take him down with professional fouls and he would step over them almost as if they were not there sometimes and carry on. If the defenders did that now it would always be a straight red card and the players now would probably need to go to hospital.
That is partly down to the development of the game though as Renoog said. the sprinter comparison is wrong though as running as faast as you can is running as fasst as you can in any time. with the changes in football and protection of players it has gone from a game where players needed a physical ability to take some punishment to a game where they are virtually untouchable and as such they can train and develop their bodies differently. Modern players are primarily athletes whereas older players would have been part athlete and part able to deal with physical stuff. Put Messi or Ronaldo in a game in the 70's and they probably go off injured in the first half. Roll around on the round like they do now and they would have been laughed at.
A friend of mines rugby teacher used to say "Football's for fairies". It really is these days.
posted on 21/9/17
Put Messi or Ronaldo in a game in the 70's and they probably go off injured in the first half. Roll around on the round like they do now and they would have been laughed at. -------------------------------------
If you believe this then you may be the dumbest poster i've come across on this forum, which takes some doing.
Absolute nonsense basing your argument on old age myths.
Do you think rugby is harder now or then? Because even in the 90s a lot of rugby players were just fat.
Sportsmen and stronger, fitter and quicker than ever before. You obviously have not seen messi live or at full flight to see the way he bounces off people and keeps going.
I hope your wumming.
posted on 21/9/17
That Maradona video posted above is hilarious. While his talent is incredible, and he has indeed to cope with horrible lunging tackles flying about all over the pitch, the defensive organisation is laughable. Players taking it in turns to charge out of position and try to take him on 1-on-1 instead of maintaining structure and shepherding him into less threatening areas of the pitch.
This is why the argument that X player wouldn't have been able to cope in the 60s/70s/80s makes me laugh. Defending has got a lot more advanced since those days. All 10 outfield players do it these days, covering increasing distances and with better structure off-the-ball. Granted it's not as brutal as it was back then. But brutal doesn't equal harder.
posted on 21/9/17
Cruyf was the greatest ever. As a player, coach, manager,tactician and innovator. He changed the game as we know it, no other player did that.
Yes, Pele,maradonna etc had some great skills, but Crufy had all that and so much more. He didnt just go on solo mazy runs against weak defences, he set up the whole team around him, helping his team outplay the opposition and win the match was his thing.
now that is special.
posted on 21/9/17
Defending has largely changed because of the changes in the laws. While I dont think football has changed as much as some people do, tackles are far more harshly judged now. Defending had to change to incorporate the protection given to players increasing over the years. Defenders could no longer throw themselves in and if they took the player out it became a red card offence far far easier. So yes, defending has changed but its largely due to changes in the laws of the game.
Ive even gone as far as to look youtube videos of Messi and Maradonna today to compare them. Maradonna was far better at riding a tackle as if it didnt happen than Messi is. I remember over the years seeing interviews with players who said that they didnt just try to win the ball off Maradonna but tried to foul him to stop him and couldnt. Most of Messi's top skills and goals on youtube have defenders backing off him and ehrn they do out challenges in he certainly does not have the same ability to avoid it as Maradonna.
And yes, Cruyff was a great player but to many didnt have the same wow factor.
posted on 21/9/17
Yes, Maradonna could ride a tackle. Cruyff didn't need too as much,as they never got that close.
If you remeber the Dutch WC teams of 74 and 78, with Cruyff leading them ( apart from two dodgy games!) They played in a totally new way - total football. Which Cruyff went on to develop as he reinvented Barca,and the rest is history. Perhaps you have to be a certain age to remember football before and after Cruyff!
Maradonna and others were great players yes, but that is all. Cruyff was every bit as good - better many say because he invented the moves the others use to look good.
The Cruyff turn is still a 'thing',what moves are named after Maraddona? handball? Ronaldo is famous for..posing and falling over?
To be the THE g.o.a.t you have to be more than just good on youtube, in certain matches..
Cruyff was a genius on the field, an innovator in management and coaching,and a great ambassador for the sport off it.
The rest are just wannabes.
If you want to single out a player on skill only, but still include play making of course, Bergkamp ticks all the boxes.
posted on 22/9/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/9/17
GOAT - a hardy domesticated ruminant mammal that has backward-curving horns and (in the male) a beard. It is kept for its milk and meat, and noted for its lively behaviour.
Page 2 of 2