comment by Redfor50yrs (U2973)
posted 9 minutes ago
Strett, I don't like to single out any player and you are probably right about Dowell. I think the point really is that Bouch should be playing as I suggested before kick off.
Four attacking midfielders in a five man midfield makes us unbalanced especially when our back four is so fragile at the moment and needs all the help it can get.
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Bridcutt looked the most culpable as he was the nearest to Vydra for both goals. Doesn’t mean it is entirely his fault. Dowell hasn’t got much defensive instinct and Osborn tries his best but is quite a diminutive figure so that lack of defensive strength in midfield was exposed again. Bouchalakis made the team look a lot more cohesive when he came on v Sheff U and would have been my pick from the bench along with Brereton (had he been on it).
Warburton makes a lot of play about player’s stats during training. It is good to embrace technology but hopefully not at the expense of good old fashioned nous to see which players are looking up for it, as a computer probably can’t tell you this.
Also have to factor in that some players are poor trainers but come alive in a match.
I'd probably weight it 70% 30 % in favour of what a player does in a match when picking a team.
Our defence has been porous all season. MW is quoted in the NEP saying Lichaj is a better defender than Darikwa. It begs the question why has Eric had to wait until now to get his first Championship game.
If Darikwa comes back in on Saturday Warburton will go down several notches in my estimation.
I was also baffled as to why Murphy even started on Sunday after playing twice for Ireland, while Brereton didn't even make the bench.
______________________________
This for me is my biggest concern about Warbs, he persists with the same players out of position when there are obviously better options. His decision making is very clearly flawed, skewed, whatever...
Murphy shouldn't have started on Sunday, he also needs to be used more sparingly as he's 35 FFS!! Brereton is only this week attracting media interest from PL clubs according yet he cant get a start in his proper position, add to that Cummings, both guys are aggressive hungry young strikers being asked to play out of position to accommodate a sole striker who has no pace and is almost at retirement age. Its pure daft, Murphy may have 6 goals but he also has ALL the game time (plus penalties) and he simply had no business starting on Sunday after two massive games for Ireland back to back the same week.
Throw into this mix Zach Clough who isnt playing in the role he made his name at Bolton, instead he's being asked to play CM, winger, all whilst everyone else is being asked to play winger yet we have a perfectly excellent winger in Carayol who cant get near the team despite being our most improved player at the back end of last season. Also not prioritizing our shambolic defence in the summer was calamitous, tactics have been poor, jamming the midfield with 5 midfielders who are all small in stature and who basically do the same thing passing it sideways between them but have little or no physicality (Bridcutt, Dowell, Osborn).
Its all a mess, I'm sorry and thats why our form is alarming. 7 defeats in 10 is relegation form and it aint gonna improve playing midgets in midfield, strikers on the wing and a geriatric up front on his own with a defence that conceded huge numbers last season. These are fundamental errors and its proving increasingly harder to have faith in a manager who consistently makes so many judgement errors week after week.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Agree with everything Len except I think he did try to strengthen the defence. Tried for a couple of CBs and at least two goalkeepers. He'll try again in January I'm sure.
There is also a rumour he signed a good FB from Burnley, can't wait to see him in action.
Also MW suffers from the same syndrome most managers suffer from namely he will always favour players he has signed over ones he has inherited. Darikwa/Lichaj, Murphy/Vellios, Cummings/Brereton,
I'm sorry Len but a lot of what you have typed is twaddle.
Murphy should absolutely have started and he is 34 BTW, he has just had some fun with the national team and is on a high.
I agree about Cummings, but he also has to start showing composure in front of goal.
Carayol is far from excellent, he has 1 good game in 5 and MW clearly thinks he is not right for the system he wants to play.
He did prioritise the defence but the targets didn't come off, for whatever reason. That isn't MW's fault.
I don't buy this 'small player is a problem' excuse, too. It's a bit Strachan-ish in the logic. Spain appear to manage OK.
7 defeats in 10? It's 7 defeats in 12; choosing where to start your stats from illustrates you are trying to use them to make a point. We have won the same as Villa who are 7th, but don't mention the wins, eh?
I can see improvement every game I go to, but it is also obvious where he needs to improve; but this take time!
one transfer window has been available and people are wanting a team the stayed up on goal difference to be ripping the league up
Sunday v derby could have gone either way, but no criticism I see about the miss by MaKay, or the good attacking football in the first half that on another day would have yielded at least 1 goal.
September was a difficult run of fixtures, a run that has now ended and we should start picking up more points and victories, but never mind we may start losing more so you can moan!
I also don't think Lichaj is better than Darikwa, they are different types of players.
Darikwa is very good going forward, so is better suited to a wing-back system, Lichaj has the energy of a Duracell bunny, but is needed because he is often out of position.
Murphy is far, far better than Vellios, he is a great back-to-goal striker and his link up play is excellent. His movement off the ball is also top-drawer, I watch individual players when I'm there and Murphy is very good.
Strett; I like Murphy, my critic isnt about him as player but personally I'd like to see two up front. Murphy has no pace and at 34 (and three quarters) his best days are behind him. he should be used in rotation and brought off the bench as an impact sub, cant see how PB or JC are ever going to develop if we never play them. I note you haven't commented on the use of players out of position which was my main point.
Brereton is being massively mismanaged, so too is Zach Clough, could say the same about Cummings, Carayol, whom you dont seem to rate but was one of the main reasons why we survived last season. Vellios, whats happened to him. played and scored throughout pre season and then banished into the wilderness.
I don't get to games so have to be content watching the 10 minute hi-lights.
However it still seems obvious to me that Murphy and Vellios are totally different types of striker and could play together in the same team. But that means playing two central strikers sometimes.
Warburton needs to adapt his style of play to suit those players that he has available.
Unfortunately while paying lip service to the importance of the Derby, he sent out an overly attack minded team with not enough defensive steel in it.
A point away at Derby would have been as good as a win after our recent run of results.
As it stands Forest will be under tremendous pressure on Saturday against Albion. I can see N.C turning up and claiming a 0-1 win after scoring a early first half goal on the counter attack and then reverting to a 15 man defence that Forest can't break down.
My point about Lichaj is that MW is quoted as saying he is a better defender than Darikwa. In my opinion we would have a better chance of keeping the goals against figure down to a reasonable amount if we played our better defenders. (I wont start a debate here about who our best central defenders might be).
Also I admit I was disappointed by the signing of Murphy, but concede he has proved me wrong and his contribution so far has been considerable. However, Sunday was one of his poorer games even allowing for his lack of service (not for the first time) and the extra pace and mobility Brereton provides would have been a better option.
Brereton should also have been ahead of Walker, who I don't expect to make it at this level.
Serious Q: do you expect Warburton to be manager by Christmas? I don’t. I reckon he’s got 6 matches left, maximum.
Who would you want as a replacement? I read a rumour about King Billy? Surely not FFS?!
You're a funny boy Baz. You might have been taken seriously by a few on here until you mentioned BD
MW will still be here Christmas 2018.
The new regime is playing a long game; and in that respect MW has a long while until the board look at his progress and form a judgement.
comment by Redfor50yrs (U2973)
posted 1 minute ago
You're a funny boy Baz. You might have been taken seriously by a few on here until you mentioned BD
MW will still be here Christmas 2018.
The new regime is playing a long game; and in that respect MW has a long while until the board look at his progress and form a judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if it means league one, yea good luck with that prediction.
Grey cells dying by the millions, surprised a dog has so many tbf.
Aaargh they're ganging up on me.
Well of course Igor league one would change things; as would nuclear war; or MW being asked to go on Strictly.
Anything else?
You continuing your run/form of 1 win in 6?
Is that the same run of form which has got us 15 points from 12 games.
That'll do me thanks.
comment by RamsfanBaz.🐑 I predict a Rowett 🐑 (U2480)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
You continuing your run/form of 1 win in 6?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that not your current form as well?
I don’t see the owners making any rash decisions over the manager at the moment. They appear to have their heads screwed on right so far. The Jan transfer window represents a big opportunity for Warburton to perform a bit of surgery. Not always the best time to try and trade but Warburton really rates McParland’s scouting abilities so we will see what he can muster up to try and balance things out.
Spart wanted Warburton at Derby so many times, so probably good to stick with him
comment by RamsfanBaz.🐑 I predict a Rowett 🐑 (U2480)
posted 10 hours, 38 minutes ago
You continuing your run/form of 1 win in 6?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Rowett must be as safe as houses then with Derby's sparkling, far superior run of 2 wins in 6.
How many defeats in those 6 games though Strett? Forest at least have perfected the art of losing.
Form is temporary.
At some point this season I will be able to come back at you with a run of six games that blows yours out of the water.
I should just drop this line of reasoning and stick with home attendance figures where you will be on safer ground.
For now anyway.
comment by Redfor50yrs (U2973)
posted 11 hours, 42 minutes ago
Is that the same run of form which has got us 15 points from 12 games.
That'll do me thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you can look at it short and long term. Recent form has been poor but the average points gained over the games already played would see Forest end up around the 60 point mark which should guarantee a mid table finish.
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Page 2 of 3
posted on 18/10/17
comment by Redfor50yrs (U2973)
posted 9 minutes ago
Strett, I don't like to single out any player and you are probably right about Dowell. I think the point really is that Bouch should be playing as I suggested before kick off.
Four attacking midfielders in a five man midfield makes us unbalanced especially when our back four is so fragile at the moment and needs all the help it can get.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bridcutt looked the most culpable as he was the nearest to Vydra for both goals. Doesn’t mean it is entirely his fault. Dowell hasn’t got much defensive instinct and Osborn tries his best but is quite a diminutive figure so that lack of defensive strength in midfield was exposed again. Bouchalakis made the team look a lot more cohesive when he came on v Sheff U and would have been my pick from the bench along with Brereton (had he been on it).
posted on 18/10/17
Warburton makes a lot of play about player’s stats during training. It is good to embrace technology but hopefully not at the expense of good old fashioned nous to see which players are looking up for it, as a computer probably can’t tell you this.
posted on 18/10/17
Also have to factor in that some players are poor trainers but come alive in a match.
I'd probably weight it 70% 30 % in favour of what a player does in a match when picking a team.
posted on 18/10/17
Our defence has been porous all season. MW is quoted in the NEP saying Lichaj is a better defender than Darikwa. It begs the question why has Eric had to wait until now to get his first Championship game.
If Darikwa comes back in on Saturday Warburton will go down several notches in my estimation.
I was also baffled as to why Murphy even started on Sunday after playing twice for Ireland, while Brereton didn't even make the bench.
______________________________
This for me is my biggest concern about Warbs, he persists with the same players out of position when there are obviously better options. His decision making is very clearly flawed, skewed, whatever...
Murphy shouldn't have started on Sunday, he also needs to be used more sparingly as he's 35 FFS!! Brereton is only this week attracting media interest from PL clubs according yet he cant get a start in his proper position, add to that Cummings, both guys are aggressive hungry young strikers being asked to play out of position to accommodate a sole striker who has no pace and is almost at retirement age. Its pure daft, Murphy may have 6 goals but he also has ALL the game time (plus penalties) and he simply had no business starting on Sunday after two massive games for Ireland back to back the same week.
Throw into this mix Zach Clough who isnt playing in the role he made his name at Bolton, instead he's being asked to play CM, winger, all whilst everyone else is being asked to play winger yet we have a perfectly excellent winger in Carayol who cant get near the team despite being our most improved player at the back end of last season. Also not prioritizing our shambolic defence in the summer was calamitous, tactics have been poor, jamming the midfield with 5 midfielders who are all small in stature and who basically do the same thing passing it sideways between them but have little or no physicality (Bridcutt, Dowell, Osborn).
Its all a mess, I'm sorry and thats why our form is alarming. 7 defeats in 10 is relegation form and it aint gonna improve playing midgets in midfield, strikers on the wing and a geriatric up front on his own with a defence that conceded huge numbers last season. These are fundamental errors and its proving increasingly harder to have faith in a manager who consistently makes so many judgement errors week after week.
posted on 18/10/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/10/17
Agree with everything Len except I think he did try to strengthen the defence. Tried for a couple of CBs and at least two goalkeepers. He'll try again in January I'm sure.
There is also a rumour he signed a good FB from Burnley, can't wait to see him in action.
posted on 18/10/17
Also MW suffers from the same syndrome most managers suffer from namely he will always favour players he has signed over ones he has inherited. Darikwa/Lichaj, Murphy/Vellios, Cummings/Brereton,
posted on 18/10/17
I'm sorry Len but a lot of what you have typed is twaddle.
Murphy should absolutely have started and he is 34 BTW, he has just had some fun with the national team and is on a high.
I agree about Cummings, but he also has to start showing composure in front of goal.
Carayol is far from excellent, he has 1 good game in 5 and MW clearly thinks he is not right for the system he wants to play.
He did prioritise the defence but the targets didn't come off, for whatever reason. That isn't MW's fault.
I don't buy this 'small player is a problem' excuse, too. It's a bit Strachan-ish in the logic. Spain appear to manage OK.
7 defeats in 10? It's 7 defeats in 12; choosing where to start your stats from illustrates you are trying to use them to make a point. We have won the same as Villa who are 7th, but don't mention the wins, eh?
I can see improvement every game I go to, but it is also obvious where he needs to improve; but this take time!
one transfer window has been available and people are wanting a team the stayed up on goal difference to be ripping the league up
Sunday v derby could have gone either way, but no criticism I see about the miss by MaKay, or the good attacking football in the first half that on another day would have yielded at least 1 goal.
September was a difficult run of fixtures, a run that has now ended and we should start picking up more points and victories, but never mind we may start losing more so you can moan!
posted on 18/10/17
I also don't think Lichaj is better than Darikwa, they are different types of players.
Darikwa is very good going forward, so is better suited to a wing-back system, Lichaj has the energy of a Duracell bunny, but is needed because he is often out of position.
Murphy is far, far better than Vellios, he is a great back-to-goal striker and his link up play is excellent. His movement off the ball is also top-drawer, I watch individual players when I'm there and Murphy is very good.
posted on 18/10/17
Strett; I like Murphy, my critic isnt about him as player but personally I'd like to see two up front. Murphy has no pace and at 34 (and three quarters) his best days are behind him. he should be used in rotation and brought off the bench as an impact sub, cant see how PB or JC are ever going to develop if we never play them. I note you haven't commented on the use of players out of position which was my main point.
Brereton is being massively mismanaged, so too is Zach Clough, could say the same about Cummings, Carayol, whom you dont seem to rate but was one of the main reasons why we survived last season. Vellios, whats happened to him. played and scored throughout pre season and then banished into the wilderness.
posted on 18/10/17
I don't get to games so have to be content watching the 10 minute hi-lights.
However it still seems obvious to me that Murphy and Vellios are totally different types of striker and could play together in the same team. But that means playing two central strikers sometimes.
Warburton needs to adapt his style of play to suit those players that he has available.
Unfortunately while paying lip service to the importance of the Derby, he sent out an overly attack minded team with not enough defensive steel in it.
A point away at Derby would have been as good as a win after our recent run of results.
As it stands Forest will be under tremendous pressure on Saturday against Albion. I can see N.C turning up and claiming a 0-1 win after scoring a early first half goal on the counter attack and then reverting to a 15 man defence that Forest can't break down.
posted on 18/10/17
My point about Lichaj is that MW is quoted as saying he is a better defender than Darikwa. In my opinion we would have a better chance of keeping the goals against figure down to a reasonable amount if we played our better defenders. (I wont start a debate here about who our best central defenders might be).
Also I admit I was disappointed by the signing of Murphy, but concede he has proved me wrong and his contribution so far has been considerable. However, Sunday was one of his poorer games even allowing for his lack of service (not for the first time) and the extra pace and mobility Brereton provides would have been a better option.
Brereton should also have been ahead of Walker, who I don't expect to make it at this level.
posted on 18/10/17
Serious Q: do you expect Warburton to be manager by Christmas? I don’t. I reckon he’s got 6 matches left, maximum.
Who would you want as a replacement? I read a rumour about King Billy? Surely not FFS?!
posted on 18/10/17
You're a funny boy Baz. You might have been taken seriously by a few on here until you mentioned BD
MW will still be here Christmas 2018.
The new regime is playing a long game; and in that respect MW has a long while until the board look at his progress and form a judgement.
posted on 18/10/17
comment by Redfor50yrs (U2973)
posted 1 minute ago
You're a funny boy Baz. You might have been taken seriously by a few on here until you mentioned BD
MW will still be here Christmas 2018.
The new regime is playing a long game; and in that respect MW has a long while until the board look at his progress and form a judgement.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if it means league one, yea good luck with that prediction.
Grey cells dying by the millions, surprised a dog has so many tbf.
posted on 18/10/17
Aaargh they're ganging up on me.
Well of course Igor league one would change things; as would nuclear war; or MW being asked to go on Strictly.
Anything else?
posted on 18/10/17
You continuing your run/form of 1 win in 6?
posted on 18/10/17
Is that the same run of form which has got us 15 points from 12 games.
That'll do me thanks.
posted on 18/10/17
comment by RamsfanBaz.🐑 I predict a Rowett 🐑 (U2480)
posted 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
You continuing your run/form of 1 win in 6?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that not your current form as well?
posted on 18/10/17
I don’t see the owners making any rash decisions over the manager at the moment. They appear to have their heads screwed on right so far. The Jan transfer window represents a big opportunity for Warburton to perform a bit of surgery. Not always the best time to try and trade but Warburton really rates McParland’s scouting abilities so we will see what he can muster up to try and balance things out.
posted on 18/10/17
Spart wanted Warburton at Derby so many times, so probably good to stick with him
posted on 19/10/17
comment by RamsfanBaz.🐑 I predict a Rowett 🐑 (U2480)
posted 10 hours, 38 minutes ago
You continuing your run/form of 1 win in 6?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Rowett must be as safe as houses then with Derby's sparkling, far superior run of 2 wins in 6.
posted on 19/10/17
How many defeats in those 6 games though Strett? Forest at least have perfected the art of losing.
posted on 19/10/17
Form is temporary.
At some point this season I will be able to come back at you with a run of six games that blows yours out of the water.
I should just drop this line of reasoning and stick with home attendance figures where you will be on safer ground.
For now anyway.
posted on 19/10/17
comment by Redfor50yrs (U2973)
posted 11 hours, 42 minutes ago
Is that the same run of form which has got us 15 points from 12 games.
That'll do me thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you can look at it short and long term. Recent form has been poor but the average points gained over the games already played would see Forest end up around the 60 point mark which should guarantee a mid table finish.
Page 2 of 3