I don't think there has been a single England manager either. Then there are all those fluid games when Henderson started.
comment by Babel's Missing Chin (U3717)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Redvalk (U14242)
posted 1 minute ago
the only 2 players that have not been criticized this season is Matip and Salah, no doubt there time will come.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is 'are' and 'their'. But on the matter at hand, Henderson is subject to lots of criticism because he just is not good enough to be starting for a team with enduring top 4 aspirations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that is your opinion and I've got mine.
I don’t think the views of England managers helps your case. People are lambasting Henderson for his England performances.
And I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Liverpool have hammered teams with Henderson in the side - I’ve acknowledged this but the point remains, we’re far more fluid and direct without him.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
I don’t think the views of England managers helps your case. People are lambasting Henderson for his England performances.
And I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Liverpool have hammered teams with Henderson in the side - I’ve acknowledged this but the point remains, we’re far more fluid and direct without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotta agree with you. For some reason Hendo seems to be beyond reproach and any criticism of him is dealt the short shrift and we keep getting told, by some fans, that he has been injured and give home.
He just is not good enough to start a game let alone be our captain. Yes, criticising him because he's not Stevie G is unfair; but get giving him a free pass and unecessary plaudits is delusional.
comment by Babel's Missing Chin (U3717)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
I don’t think the views of England managers helps your case. People are lambasting Henderson for his England performances.
And I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Liverpool have hammered teams with Henderson in the side - I’ve acknowledged this but the point remains, we’re far more fluid and direct without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotta agree with you. For some reason Hendo seems to be beyond reproach and any criticism of him is dealt the short shrift and we keep getting told, by some fans, that he has been injured and give home.
He just is not good enough to start a game let alone be our captain. Yes, criticising him because he's not Stevie G is unfair; but get giving him a free pass and unecessary plaudits is delusional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*and give him some time.
i've been critical of hendo many times, but just for the odd game. though his injuries have hampered him a bit this year he's still a good player worthy of playing for liverpool. also thought he played well against manchester.
He has been a key player, yes a key player under Rodgers and Klopp.
However I was pleasantly surprised how we played in the second half of last season with Can playing in the deeper midfield role.
I thknk Henderson has been poor this season. A bit too safe. I have no problem with him being dropped because he isn't playing well. However I still think when he's match fit and on his game his industry, mobility and engine are an asset. Those deriding him make out he's never had a good game for us, but this simply isn't true. That season he was sent off against City was a big moment that season and we badly missed him.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
It’s rather ridiculous to use this game as a yardstick. Maribor looked no better than a League 1 side last night, and any team we put out could easily have had a similar outcome.
It’s rather ridiculous to use this game as a yardstick. Maribor looked no better than a League 1 side last night, and any team we put out could easily have had a similar outcome.
—
Could we have hammered Maribor with Henderson? Yes, but I don’t think we would have scored 7.
It’s his general play that’s the issue. Forget the opponent for a moment and ask yourself if his square passing and back passing is as much a hindrance than anything.
I honestly believe that it was that style of football that stopped us beating United and he was at the crux of it.
This is why you're the most deluded bunch of football fans around. You played a Slovenian supermarket check out 11 last night. A proper team stopped you fairly easily at the weekend.
Henderson is awful but to suggest him missing last night had anything to do with the score is barmy. That team would probably struggle in the championship let alone PL.
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 27 minutes ago
This is why you're the most deluded bunch of football fans around. You played a Slovenian supermarket check out 11 last night. A proper team stopped you fairly easily at the weekend.
Henderson is awful but to suggest him missing last night had anything to do with the score is barmy. That team would probably struggle in the championship let alone PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good all Eric, labling all fans the same If I did that based on what you type, Then United fans would be the biggest bunch of know nothing reetaards In world football.
I think those who don't really understand football don't understand Henderson's role in the team. I don't agree that should be his role as I think he offers a lot more in the opponents half but it is what it is. I can't really think of a deep midfielder who doesn't recycle the ball and keep it safe. It's a fundamental part of the role.
It is time to switch Can and Henderson and play Can deeper. Especially in games we are expected to dominate as Henderson has more chance of unlocking the door.
I think Hendo just needs healthy competition and to come out of the firing line for a bit!
A proper team stopped you fairly easily at the weekend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still peddling this hogwash Eric. Your obsession knows no bounds.
Congratulations on getting a draw against this mediocre team with its awful players.
It's OK to both Like Henderson but say he's currently not near his best level, he was brilliant last season when were around top of the league for months, he was controling midfield and driving us forward, problem is since the injury he's not got close to that level and seems to need allot of time to get back there.
Klopp should just swap Henderson and Can around.
When Can has played deeper, we've looked a better team this season.
The other thing for me though is whether this is down to tactical instructions or individual ability...but the way the deeper role changes when it's Henderson or Can is just too glaringly obvious. There's just much more structure when Can plays there.
Although it's been over different managers, I would certainly have box-to-box Henderson over deep-lying playmaker Henderson anyday.
I think its ridiculous to decide to use a game where the oppostion was awful to beat up on a player... that game was so so easy.
OP spot on. Agree 100%. Also, for the first time this season our defence had their easiest game. They didn't have to deal with players running at them with the ball or running behind them. The midfield did its job especially Can. Henderson is weak in 50/50 challenges and normally avoids them. He leaves the defence exposed. I was happy when I saw the team and knew it would be a comfortable night for us. You would say it was only Maribor but their home record in Europe is good. That was the heaviest defeat they've had and our best away record. We have played worse and they have played better teams than us before in the competition. I have been saying it for years, Henderson is a liability. Skrtel was another one. I'm sure Klopp thought about it and dropped him for tactical reason and not just resting him. He had one good season in Suarez last season when any long pass going anywhere in the opposition area was chased and won by Suatez. The pass didn't have to be good. Suarez movement was unbelievable. All of our players had good season. Sturridge and Sterling and even Flanagan looked like world class players because of Suarez. Look at them after that and now.
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 27 minutes ago
I think its ridiculous to decide to use a game where the oppostion was awful to beat up on a player... that game was so so easy.
-----------
Why not saying we made them look awful. That was their heaviest defeat at home and our best away win. We have played worse teams and they have played better teams.
"Sturridge and Sterling and even Flanagan looked like world class players because of Suarez."
I think the point for me us that the op is suggesting that because he saw James Milner rather than Jordan Henderson a record breaking win was of no surprise.
Which is stupid.
Either way Milner is not better than Henderson at passing a football. He's certainly not a progressive direct play maker.
Henderson will start the majority of games and that for a reason. I refuse to forget the first four months of last season where Hendo was arguably our most important player.
comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
I think the point for me us that the op is suggesting that because he saw James Milner rather than Jordan Henderson a record breaking win was of no surprise.
Which is stupid.
Either way Milner is not better than Henderson at passing a football. He's certainly not a progressive direct play maker.
Henderson will start the majority of games and that for a reason. I refuse to forget the first four months of last season where Hendo was arguably our most important player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolute babble. Nobody could have predicted a record win. The point is that a convincing win wasn't a surprise to me because we didn't have a player being overly cautious for the sake of keeping the ball instead of advancing the play.
I'd also argue that Milner is a more progressive direct player.
I agree that Henderson will start the majority of games but that's to the detriment of the team in my view.
The Echo have recently done a poll where most people believe Milner should be ahead of Henderson. Ask yourself why?
You're welcome to disagree of course but to suggest that because managers seem to prefer Jordan is certainly not evidence of his superiority. Many would argue he was wrong over Sakho for example.
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 3 hours, 15 minutes ago
I think its ridiculous to decide to use a game where the oppostion was awful to beat up on a player... that game was so so easy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who's beating up on Henderson?
This defensive mentality needs to stop.
The point is quite straight forward - we play more open, expansive football without him in my opinion. This game might be an extreme example but this is a wider point from having watched him cautiously keep the ball unnecessarily - see game against United.
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Result No Surprise with Henderson Dropped
Page 2 of 3
posted on 17/10/17
I don't think there has been a single England manager either. Then there are all those fluid games when Henderson started.
posted on 17/10/17
comment by Babel's Missing Chin (U3717)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Redvalk (U14242)
posted 1 minute ago
the only 2 players that have not been criticized this season is Matip and Salah, no doubt there time will come.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is 'are' and 'their'. But on the matter at hand, Henderson is subject to lots of criticism because he just is not good enough to be starting for a team with enduring top 4 aspirations.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that is your opinion and I've got mine.
posted on 17/10/17
I don’t think the views of England managers helps your case. People are lambasting Henderson for his England performances.
And I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Liverpool have hammered teams with Henderson in the side - I’ve acknowledged this but the point remains, we’re far more fluid and direct without him.
posted on 17/10/17
Righto.
posted on 17/10/17
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
I don’t think the views of England managers helps your case. People are lambasting Henderson for his England performances.
And I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Liverpool have hammered teams with Henderson in the side - I’ve acknowledged this but the point remains, we’re far more fluid and direct without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotta agree with you. For some reason Hendo seems to be beyond reproach and any criticism of him is dealt the short shrift and we keep getting told, by some fans, that he has been injured and give home.
He just is not good enough to start a game let alone be our captain. Yes, criticising him because he's not Stevie G is unfair; but get giving him a free pass and unecessary plaudits is delusional.
posted on 17/10/17
comment by Babel's Missing Chin (U3717)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
I don’t think the views of England managers helps your case. People are lambasting Henderson for his England performances.
And I’ll repeat what I said earlier, Liverpool have hammered teams with Henderson in the side - I’ve acknowledged this but the point remains, we’re far more fluid and direct without him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gotta agree with you. For some reason Hendo seems to be beyond reproach and any criticism of him is dealt the short shrift and we keep getting told, by some fans, that he has been injured and give home.
He just is not good enough to start a game let alone be our captain. Yes, criticising him because he's not Stevie G is unfair; but get giving him a free pass and unecessary plaudits is delusional.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*and give him some time.
posted on 17/10/17
i've been critical of hendo many times, but just for the odd game. though his injuries have hampered him a bit this year he's still a good player worthy of playing for liverpool. also thought he played well against manchester.
posted on 17/10/17
He has been a key player, yes a key player under Rodgers and Klopp.
However I was pleasantly surprised how we played in the second half of last season with Can playing in the deeper midfield role.
I thknk Henderson has been poor this season. A bit too safe. I have no problem with him being dropped because he isn't playing well. However I still think when he's match fit and on his game his industry, mobility and engine are an asset. Those deriding him make out he's never had a good game for us, but this simply isn't true. That season he was sent off against City was a big moment that season and we badly missed him.
posted on 18/10/17
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 18/10/17
It’s rather ridiculous to use this game as a yardstick. Maribor looked no better than a League 1 side last night, and any team we put out could easily have had a similar outcome.
posted on 18/10/17
It’s rather ridiculous to use this game as a yardstick. Maribor looked no better than a League 1 side last night, and any team we put out could easily have had a similar outcome.
—
Could we have hammered Maribor with Henderson? Yes, but I don’t think we would have scored 7.
It’s his general play that’s the issue. Forget the opponent for a moment and ask yourself if his square passing and back passing is as much a hindrance than anything.
I honestly believe that it was that style of football that stopped us beating United and he was at the crux of it.
posted on 18/10/17
This is why you're the most deluded bunch of football fans around. You played a Slovenian supermarket check out 11 last night. A proper team stopped you fairly easily at the weekend.
Henderson is awful but to suggest him missing last night had anything to do with the score is barmy. That team would probably struggle in the championship let alone PL.
posted on 18/10/17
comment by Eric_the_king (SE85) (U21241)
posted 27 minutes ago
This is why you're the most deluded bunch of football fans around. You played a Slovenian supermarket check out 11 last night. A proper team stopped you fairly easily at the weekend.
Henderson is awful but to suggest him missing last night had anything to do with the score is barmy. That team would probably struggle in the championship let alone PL.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good all Eric, labling all fans the same If I did that based on what you type, Then United fans would be the biggest bunch of know nothing reetaards In world football.
posted on 18/10/17
I think those who don't really understand football don't understand Henderson's role in the team. I don't agree that should be his role as I think he offers a lot more in the opponents half but it is what it is. I can't really think of a deep midfielder who doesn't recycle the ball and keep it safe. It's a fundamental part of the role.
It is time to switch Can and Henderson and play Can deeper. Especially in games we are expected to dominate as Henderson has more chance of unlocking the door.
posted on 18/10/17
I think Hendo just needs healthy competition and to come out of the firing line for a bit!
posted on 18/10/17
A proper team stopped you fairly easily at the weekend.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Still peddling this hogwash Eric. Your obsession knows no bounds.
Congratulations on getting a draw against this mediocre team with its awful players.
posted on 18/10/17
It's OK to both Like Henderson but say he's currently not near his best level, he was brilliant last season when were around top of the league for months, he was controling midfield and driving us forward, problem is since the injury he's not got close to that level and seems to need allot of time to get back there.
posted on 18/10/17
Klopp should just swap Henderson and Can around.
When Can has played deeper, we've looked a better team this season.
The other thing for me though is whether this is down to tactical instructions or individual ability...but the way the deeper role changes when it's Henderson or Can is just too glaringly obvious. There's just much more structure when Can plays there.
Although it's been over different managers, I would certainly have box-to-box Henderson over deep-lying playmaker Henderson anyday.
posted on 18/10/17
I think its ridiculous to decide to use a game where the oppostion was awful to beat up on a player... that game was so so easy.
posted on 18/10/17
OP spot on. Agree 100%. Also, for the first time this season our defence had their easiest game. They didn't have to deal with players running at them with the ball or running behind them. The midfield did its job especially Can. Henderson is weak in 50/50 challenges and normally avoids them. He leaves the defence exposed. I was happy when I saw the team and knew it would be a comfortable night for us. You would say it was only Maribor but their home record in Europe is good. That was the heaviest defeat they've had and our best away record. We have played worse and they have played better teams than us before in the competition. I have been saying it for years, Henderson is a liability. Skrtel was another one. I'm sure Klopp thought about it and dropped him for tactical reason and not just resting him. He had one good season in Suarez last season when any long pass going anywhere in the opposition area was chased and won by Suatez. The pass didn't have to be good. Suarez movement was unbelievable. All of our players had good season. Sturridge and Sterling and even Flanagan looked like world class players because of Suarez. Look at them after that and now.
posted on 18/10/17
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 27 minutes ago
I think its ridiculous to decide to use a game where the oppostion was awful to beat up on a player... that game was so so easy.
-----------
Why not saying we made them look awful. That was their heaviest defeat at home and our best away win. We have played worse teams and they have played better teams.
posted on 18/10/17
"Sturridge and Sterling and even Flanagan looked like world class players because of Suarez."
posted on 18/10/17
I think the point for me us that the op is suggesting that because he saw James Milner rather than Jordan Henderson a record breaking win was of no surprise.
Which is stupid.
Either way Milner is not better than Henderson at passing a football. He's certainly not a progressive direct play maker.
Henderson will start the majority of games and that for a reason. I refuse to forget the first four months of last season where Hendo was arguably our most important player.
posted on 18/10/17
comment by Robbing_Hoody (U6374)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
I think the point for me us that the op is suggesting that because he saw James Milner rather than Jordan Henderson a record breaking win was of no surprise.
Which is stupid.
Either way Milner is not better than Henderson at passing a football. He's certainly not a progressive direct play maker.
Henderson will start the majority of games and that for a reason. I refuse to forget the first four months of last season where Hendo was arguably our most important player.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolute babble. Nobody could have predicted a record win. The point is that a convincing win wasn't a surprise to me because we didn't have a player being overly cautious for the sake of keeping the ball instead of advancing the play.
I'd also argue that Milner is a more progressive direct player.
I agree that Henderson will start the majority of games but that's to the detriment of the team in my view.
The Echo have recently done a poll where most people believe Milner should be ahead of Henderson. Ask yourself why?
You're welcome to disagree of course but to suggest that because managers seem to prefer Jordan is certainly not evidence of his superiority. Many would argue he was wrong over Sakho for example.
posted on 18/10/17
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 3 hours, 15 minutes ago
I think its ridiculous to decide to use a game where the oppostion was awful to beat up on a player... that game was so so easy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who's beating up on Henderson?
This defensive mentality needs to stop.
The point is quite straight forward - we play more open, expansive football without him in my opinion. This game might be an extreme example but this is a wider point from having watched him cautiously keep the ball unnecessarily - see game against United.
Page 2 of 3