Ok

comment by CrouchEndGooner (U13531)
posted 26 seconds ago
Ok
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Hahaha

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Black Hawk (U16342)
posted 5 minutes ago
On the data of population growth of Palestinians. I haven't looked through the dataset, but I would be reluctant to make big assumptions on the data.

Firstly, it’s worth considering that its worth considering the decrease in Palestinians within occupied regions of Israel. Meaning ethnic cleansing, as it doesn't just mean the killing of an ethnic group, but their removal from a region. Going way back, the population of Palestinians in Israel decreased between 1946 and 1950 by 700,000. Ethnic cleansing doesn't mean genocide, but they are often intertwined.

Also, it needs to consider the rate of change or growth in a region. The rate of growth of the population has actually fallen since 1990s.

Lastly, population increase is not a great determinate to say a genocide took place. Under Mao Zedong the population in China doubled, and life expectancy increased! Doesn't mean a genocide didn't take place! So be careful with how you use stats!!

I dunno if a genocide is occurring - I'm a few beers too deep for that. It’s not quite colonialism/imperialism/apartheid either. But even without a 100% term for what I'm seeing, I can categorise it as being extremely wrong, and the language used by those in power in Israel is hateful rhetoric.


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Fair mate. Few beers down or not (likewise I started at lunchtime!) your points are reasonable
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Outside the points on statistics and data, the point on the kind of discourse we use is reasonable, with regards to dipping people in acid lol. Even as someone who isn’t personally against capital punishment for war crimes - death by acid is a little extreme even for me!

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 9 minutes ago
I read a page or two and I don’t think we’ll come to an agreement Tam.

If you are saying that I was softer with Titliv there than I have been and am with Arab, then I’d agree. But as above to BMCL, I am taking historical context into account - Arab posts things like this habitually.

My direct posts that you’ve linked above I stand by as I’m not making excuses I just said that if he meant a. Then it’s just wrong but if he meant b. Then I get where he was coming from but didn’t condone the use of the word cockroaches.

Again though, as per this example with regards to clappy, I have clearly said to you (after he himself admitted it was out of line) that clappy’s comment crossed the line, the TLIV comment you’ve shared I again said ‘if he means everyone fighting in Gaza then I couldn’t disagree more but if he meant the Hamas leaders then I see where he’s coming but don’t agree with the word cockroaches’. So I am disagreeing with those comments, perhaps not enough for you - that’s fine it’s your opinion. Perhaps not as much as I am Arab’s comments, that’s fine but that’s my choice and as mentioned earlier it’s also due to the catalog of horrendous posts he makes on a regular basis.

So there’s that versus practically all of you who didn’t say a thing and don’t say a thing when Arab posts something ludicrous.

It’s like moaning at me for only scoring one free kick out of ten when you haven’t scored any out of twenty.
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I didn't expect you to agree. I did expect you to bring it back to Arab though, as always. I don't defend Arab when he says something ridiculous or come up with excuses for him.

You did everything you could to excuse Tliv and give alternative meanings to his outright horrific post. Then he comes on a confirms what he meant (which doubled down on the cockroaches and people of Gaza being subhuman, whilst condoning killing every single fighter in Gaza). At that point when it became impossible and you had to outright condemn him, you disappeared.

You're right though, it's your choice how you post. If you want to keep defending and deflecting from racists and genocide excusers, that's your decision. I'm just telling you how it looks. So I'll leave it at that.
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The problem you have though mate that even if you’re right, you’re worse as you don’t even partially criticise posts that the likes of Arab come out with.

You cannot criticise me for not speaking out enough against some people when I criticise others heavily when you don’t even remotely criticise one ‘side’.

So whatever the optics may be on how I post, the optics of your posts or lack thereof is far more notable.

Personally I don’t care whether you call people out for xy or z until you or others come to me saying that I only criticise one side and that I defend racists (again typical hyperbole from you which does not reflect reality fairly at all).

I didn’t do everything I could to defend TLIV at all. I am a linguist and words have meaning. What he wrote could have meant at least two things - if it was one (which you assert it was) then I disagreed completely with it. If it was another then I still disagreed with his use of language but understood more where he was coming from because one was about all fighters in Gaza and the other was just about Hamas leaders.

Again though, you do not even bother to partly call into question the things that Arab comes out with; so pardon me if I don’t take your critique too seriously.

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 35 minutes ago
I’d happily wager that more left leaning people would support open or heavy immigration as opposed to right leaning people
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I'd bet against it

The social democratic party of Germany are anti-immigration.

They would call the "left leaning" people you refer to "lfestyle leftists". I.e., they're not really left.

Labour were anti Immigration in late 60s and Eurosceptic in the 70s. New Labour was a right wing government.

People who are actually on the left like me do not want workers wages to be undermined by imported cheap labour. It flies in the face of socialism.

I don't know what Labour is these days but it's not left leaning. It seems to be politically homeless and more concerned about identity politics than anything else.

I agree with the rest of your post though, I just think the definition of left is really skewed these days.

It's actually the Social Democrat party in Denmark

In Germany the left wing party that is anti immigration is Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht

In the Netherlands it's the Socialist Party

The left wing parties that have moved away from ID politics and back towards a focus on actual social democratic policies and against immigration (In Denmark the Social Democrats are are becoming successful in the EU. We could do with that here but unfortunately all the parties are poor and there's still a ridiculous conflation with anti-immigration and racism.

Have I got this right...
Rishi Sunak, the tiny PM of this country, has stood at a lecturn outside no 10, as if he was announcing an election or war, to moan about pro Palestinian protests and George Galloway?
What an absolute plum! Belittling his office, belittling the impact of a Downing Street statement, to whine about marginal extremitists

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1763740228190114154

comment by Real Fans Don't WUM (U23132)
posted 4 hours ago
It's actually the Social Democrat party in Denmark

In Germany the left wing party that is anti immigration is Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht

In the Netherlands it's the Socialist Party

The left wing parties that have moved away from ID politics and back towards a focus on actual social democratic policies and against immigration (In Denmark the Social Democrats are are becoming successful in the EU. We could do with that here but unfortunately all the parties are poor and there's still a ridiculous conflation with anti-immigration and racism.
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There is no such conflation in the general and public sense. It is clear that anti immigration is closely linked with the question of race.

Why? Because every Tom, Deek and Harry economist has highlighted that we are screwed without immigration. Immigration is saving the west from a dystopian future. According to projections we need even more immigrants than we have now. Your children's future might depend on it. Read up about it.

So since anti immigration brigade cannot rely on economic reasons to be anti immigration, what other reason is there to continue to be anti immigration?

Either live with the races in this village we call planet earth or get facked up badly in future. I'm sure you'd rather risk your children's future than share the country with black and brown people.

That German party you call.left wing is like a couple of months old since it's founding.

"An influential German leftist politician launched a new populist movement on Monday (23 October), hoping for European election success next June on a platform opposing EU integration and in favour of cheap Russian energy."

The way you talk about it you try to make out like the left wing in Germany have a significant element of anti immigration, which is false. Could you be any more Tory than that? Lies are your forte.

Netherlands Socialist party seeks to protect the working class, even if that means being anti immigration. They don't lead with anti immigration. The Party if Freedom is what you're looking for there.

comment by Real Fans Don't WUM (U23132)
posted about 5 hours ago
I agree with the rest of your post though, I just think the definition of left is really skewed these days.
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You wish it was skewed as you are trying to mirage a situation where there is a shift to the right. Keep dreaming. It will never happen.

https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1763655841368932832

v true

The left wing parties that have moved away from ID politics and back towards a focus on actual social democratic policies and against immigration (In Denmark the Social Democrats are are becoming successful in the EU
=====
Almost all these parties are new. What do you mean "moved away from ID politics and back towards a focus blah blah blah..."?

None of the left wing parties have shifted much. New parties have popped up trying to cover the wide berth of middle ground between the left and the right, hoping to draw support from both sides of the divide.

This is the natural course of things throughout history. It's how it works. It's not some epiphany moment like you seem to think

This technically another lie. Literally everything you say is a lie or half truth. Read back at your posts the last few pages. I want you to know that's all hogwash.

George Galloway backed Brexit, which I can never forgive him for but I have to say, this interview was brilliant.

He hits the nail on the head here IMO. I don't know much else but I feel I agree with his views in this particular interview. Time for the people of the west to see how their intentions and expectations for the world have been subverted by the political class and sinister interests. It is not our wish to bomb vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and steal everything that isn't bailed down and mess up the whole world. Why and how have these things been done our name? We most certainly don't approve of them FFS!

Forgot the link

https://highprofiles.info/interview/george-galloway/

Galloway’s shut down of the idiot sky reporter was an embarrassment for sky news

comment by 50 No longer trusting the process (U1147)
posted 52 minutes ago
Galloway’s shut down of the idiot sky reporter was an embarrassment for sky news
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Love or hate him, that was hilarious

Strange how Galloway gets democratically elected and Sunak's response is to talk of extremists in politics. Yet within his own party his comments on Lee Anderson were couched and he's done nothing in response to extremist comments by Braverman and Truss.

comment by 50 No longer trusting the process (U1147)
posted about an hour ago
Galloway’s shut down of the idiot sky reporter was an embarrassment for sky news
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I thought he came across awfully to be honest. He was asked questions about intimidation and then came across as prickly and aggressive. Makes you wonder what he thinks intimidation is.

Also, he kept talking about how he was elected and Rishi Sunak wasn't. Rishi won his seat democratically, exactly the same as Galloway. The fact people are praising him for aggressively making that point and refusing to answer questions is ridiculous.

I'd say it was more of an embarrassment for Rochdale than Sky News that they'd elect such a person.

Fiddy is an embarrassment to the arsenal thread

comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 50 No longer trusting the process (U1147)
posted about an hour ago
Galloway’s shut down of the idiot sky reporter was an embarrassment for sky news
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought he came across awfully to be honest. He was asked questions about intimidation and then came across as prickly and aggressive. Makes you wonder what he thinks intimidation is.

Also, he kept talking about how he was elected and Rishi Sunak wasn't. Rishi won his seat democratically, exactly the same as Galloway. The fact people are praising him for aggressively making that point and refusing to answer questions is ridiculous.

I'd say it was more of an embarrassment for Rochdale than Sky News that they'd elect such a person.
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Yeah, he didn't come off great here IMO. Ultimately he seems to be all about himself and whereas he says some things that are poignant and true, it feels like this is all to achieve some personal acclaim or agenda as opposed to trying to actually change anything for the better.

comment by Stone Cold Mamba (U1282)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by 50 No longer trusting the process (U1147)
posted about an hour ago
Galloway’s shut down of the idiot sky reporter was an embarrassment for sky news
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought he came across awfully to be honest. He was asked questions about intimidation and then came across as prickly and aggressive. Makes you wonder what he thinks intimidation is.

Also, he kept talking about how he was elected and Rishi Sunak wasn't. Rishi won his seat democratically, exactly the same as Galloway. The fact people are praising him for aggressively making that point and refusing to answer questions is ridiculous.

I'd say it was more of an embarrassment for Rochdale than Sky News that they'd elect such a person.
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Yeah, he didn't come off great here IMO. Ultimately he seems to be all about himself and whereas he says some things that are poignant and true, it feels like this is all to achieve some personal acclaim or agenda as opposed to trying to actually change anything for the better.
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I thought it was an interview of 2 halves. The first half when it was all “Rishi Sunak said” I thought was a daft line of questioning with someone like Galloway and any experienced reporter should know that. Second half as they moved to the intimidation accusations I thought Galloway came across really poorly and extremely tin-eared.

Not Galloway's biggest fan (backed Brexit, backed Farage). I've mixed feelings about that interview.

Came across prickly, but I really do think he's just embodying the people's frustrations at how this country has been run. He's also right to point out Sunak and the medias framing of his victory.

I doubt Rochdale's votes will translate across the country, but it's a warning sign for both parties.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 7 hours, 45 minutes ago
Have I got this right...
Rishi Sunak, the tiny PM of this country, has stood at a lecturn outside no 10, as if he was announcing an election or war, to moan about pro Palestinian protests and George Galloway?
What an absolute plum! Belittling his office, belittling the impact of a Downing Street statement, to whine about marginal extremitists
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good summary. And this is where we are right now in UK politics. The last desparate throes of an unmandated, spent and dying administration, abusing powers at it's disposal, to deflect it's own extreme inadequacies and shortfalls by basically scaremongering the General Public. Shameful.