The obvious solution is for the ref to have a microphone.
It will give clarity to their decisions.
"Nobody is asking for perfection. Thats ridiculous and impossible. All we're asking for is the correct and basic decision being made."
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 22 seconds ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This x a million!
comment by vidicthelegend VIVA LA REVOLUTION (U8735)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by wearethefamousTHFC (U19211)
posted 35 seconds ago
In the modern game where bribes are going on in all sports then its a joke that refs are untouchable
Is anyone really going to think no ref is ever approached or tempted with the money involved
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unlikely to go on in the PL.
However there is one ref that I've always thought tried to manage games in a way that would affect the game in order to try and get him the result that he wanted.
It normally takes at least a couple of hours before we get to the point of agreement winston!
This subject really winds me up.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 10 minutes ago
"They should have regular performance review"
You think they don't?
They are scrutinised more than most professions I can think of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is lies!! How many times do you see former refs on ssn and even Dermot Gallagher (head of refs for the FA) defend obvious mistakes. They are never criticized
Somehow it's defo Jose's fault
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 4 seconds ago
Somehow it's defo Jose's fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a conspiracy
This guy - (U21433) - is surely trolling.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
It normally takes at least a couple of hours before we get to the point of agreement winston!
This subject really winds me up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this case I am wholeheartedly in agreement with you. A real bugbear of mine.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
How are refs untouchable?
They are the only ones on the pitch with nobody for support.
Even in the event that a player is sent off, he still has his own fans and, probably most importantly, his team supporting him.
A ref, over the course of 90 minutes, will be absolutely berated by all sides. The ref can't react like a player who gets fouled and squares up to his opponent; he cannot deal back some trash talk against a miscreant that has been giving him nothing but profanity and abuse the whole game. They have to observe the most astute emotional intelligence of everyone in a stadium of dozens of thousands and have to do it entirely on their own.
Of course, they will be put through stringent performance reviews (rightly so), but let's not make a very undesirable occupation even more untenable with our constant outrage and in fact afford the refs more praise and respect where due. In that instance, we may well get more kids wanting to be refs which inevitably gives the FA a much larger pool of talent to filter through, resulting in better officiating and competitive atmosphere all around.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 5 minutes ago
How are refs untouchable?
They are the only ones on the pitch with nobody for support.
Even in the event that a player is sent off, he still has his own fans and, probably most importantly, his team supporting him.
A ref, over the course of 90 minutes, will be absolutely berated by all sides. The ref can't react like a player who gets fouled and squares up to his opponent; he cannot deal back some trash talk against a miscreant that has been giving him nothing but profanity and abuse the whole game. They have to observe the most astute emotional intelligence of everyone in a stadium of dozens of thousands and have to do it entirely on their own.
Of course, they will be put through stringent performance reviews (rightly so), but let's not make a very undesirable occupation even more untenable with our constant outrage and in fact afford the refs more praise and respect where due. In that instance, we may well get more kids wanting to be refs which inevitably gives the FA a much larger pool of talent to filter through, resulting in better officiating and competitive atmosphere all around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And compared with the players they earn absolute pittance.
Simply having a microphone on will tell the audience (not match goers) why he made the decision, will reduce abusive language from players and will help explain their interpretation of the rules to managers.
Managers can then question the interpretation of the rule in press conferences instead of going on a big rant and getting a fine.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
This guy - (U21433) - is surely trolling.
---------------------
No, he just has a strong opinion about referees. As evident by another referee article he made nearly 6 months ago.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And when we have referees leaving for other shores or occupations as they receive no backing from their employer?
I'm a financial accountant and if I felt my employer wasn't backing me, I'd leave in a heartbeat; that's without constant criticism from fans, players, pundits, the press as well.
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reasonable, I agree. I’d say they already do
HenrysCat (U3608)
I think you've missed the point.
No one is asking fans to stop moaning about decisions.
What they're saying is that if fans can't accept that most decisions are subjective then they're idiots.
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And when we have referees leaving for other shores or occupations as they receive no backing from their employer?
I'm a financial accountant and if I felt my employer wasn't backing me, I'd leave in a heartbeat; that's without constant criticism from fans, players, pundits, the press as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they can't accept some people disagree with them, then maybe it's best they do find a job do something else.
I doubt the example you've given is quite so subjective - it's hard to draw any parallels between the two at all for that matter, but if you continuously mucked up someones account I doubt your employer would back you too much, nor miss you if you left.
This is a silly idea, referees are paid an absolute pittance and frankly I don't understand why anybody wants to work their way up through the ranks being abused for virtually no pay.
If we start paying them commensurate with their influence then maybe - but this policy as it stands would have the opposite effect of the one intended - even fewer people would want to deal with the aggravation and with fewer referees not only would there be a logistical problem, the standard would inevitably go down as well
I do accept that was a difficult one to compare, but it just so happens I do a boring job!!
Anyhow, I would no doubt come under scrutiny and even disciplinary action, given continued bad performance, but the difference between my job, your job, most people's job, and a referee's is that these discussions or disciplinaries would happen in private, between employee and employer.
Referees are subjected to public abuse. If you take the total of correct decisions made, they are not underperforming. Hell, if I got 98% of my decisions correct in my work every day, I'd be well on my way to partner!
There are countless times I disagree with a client's treatment when given a subjective item, and if they came back berating me as such, you can guarantee I'd be backed up by the firm.
Maybe that is the significant difference, I suppose; I am able to justify my decisions with detailed emails or phone calls or reports, whereas referees do not have that liberty...nor do accountants have to make snapshot decisions on game-changing matters! All in all, a bad comparison on my part.
I just think that they only way competent officiating is sustainable is through a continued talent pool willing to do the job - the bigger the better - and this won't continue if every referee we see is berated, not backed up, and not respected in the footballing world.
Anyway, I think the only real problem here is the way in which managers choose to air their grievance - in public, on TV, directly after the match - not the complaint itself. Maybe this happens out of frustration from the FA not acting on complaints when sent through "official" channels, maybe it's just out of said manger "losing his sh-t" in the heat of the moment. I don't know, but if it's the latter, I don't know anyone could complain about that manager being sanctioned.
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Page 2 of 3
posted on 5/1/18
The obvious solution is for the ref to have a microphone.
It will give clarity to their decisions.
posted on 5/1/18
"Nobody is asking for perfection. Thats ridiculous and impossible. All we're asking for is the correct and basic decision being made."
posted on 5/1/18
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
posted on 5/1/18
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 22 seconds ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This x a million!
posted on 5/1/18
comment by vidicthelegend VIVA LA REVOLUTION (U8735)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by wearethefamousTHFC (U19211)
posted 35 seconds ago
In the modern game where bribes are going on in all sports then its a joke that refs are untouchable
Is anyone really going to think no ref is ever approached or tempted with the money involved
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unlikely to go on in the PL.
However there is one ref that I've always thought tried to manage games in a way that would affect the game in order to try and get him the result that he wanted.
posted on 5/1/18
It normally takes at least a couple of hours before we get to the point of agreement winston!
This subject really winds me up.
posted on 5/1/18
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 10 minutes ago
"They should have regular performance review"
You think they don't?
They are scrutinised more than most professions I can think of.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is lies!! How many times do you see former refs on ssn and even Dermot Gallagher (head of refs for the FA) defend obvious mistakes. They are never criticized
posted on 5/1/18
Somehow it's defo Jose's fault
posted on 5/1/18
comment by kneerash-23 Cara Gold (U6876)
posted 4 seconds ago
Somehow it's defo Jose's fault
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a conspiracy
posted on 5/1/18
This guy - (U21433) - is surely trolling.
posted on 5/1/18
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 2 minutes ago
It normally takes at least a couple of hours before we get to the point of agreement winston!
This subject really winds me up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In this case I am wholeheartedly in agreement with you. A real bugbear of mine.
posted on 5/1/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/1/18
How are refs untouchable?
They are the only ones on the pitch with nobody for support.
Even in the event that a player is sent off, he still has his own fans and, probably most importantly, his team supporting him.
A ref, over the course of 90 minutes, will be absolutely berated by all sides. The ref can't react like a player who gets fouled and squares up to his opponent; he cannot deal back some trash talk against a miscreant that has been giving him nothing but profanity and abuse the whole game. They have to observe the most astute emotional intelligence of everyone in a stadium of dozens of thousands and have to do it entirely on their own.
Of course, they will be put through stringent performance reviews (rightly so), but let's not make a very undesirable occupation even more untenable with our constant outrage and in fact afford the refs more praise and respect where due. In that instance, we may well get more kids wanting to be refs which inevitably gives the FA a much larger pool of talent to filter through, resulting in better officiating and competitive atmosphere all around.
posted on 5/1/18
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 5 minutes ago
How are refs untouchable?
They are the only ones on the pitch with nobody for support.
Even in the event that a player is sent off, he still has his own fans and, probably most importantly, his team supporting him.
A ref, over the course of 90 minutes, will be absolutely berated by all sides. The ref can't react like a player who gets fouled and squares up to his opponent; he cannot deal back some trash talk against a miscreant that has been giving him nothing but profanity and abuse the whole game. They have to observe the most astute emotional intelligence of everyone in a stadium of dozens of thousands and have to do it entirely on their own.
Of course, they will be put through stringent performance reviews (rightly so), but let's not make a very undesirable occupation even more untenable with our constant outrage and in fact afford the refs more praise and respect where due. In that instance, we may well get more kids wanting to be refs which inevitably gives the FA a much larger pool of talent to filter through, resulting in better officiating and competitive atmosphere all around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And compared with the players they earn absolute pittance.
posted on 5/1/18
Simply having a microphone on will tell the audience (not match goers) why he made the decision, will reduce abusive language from players and will help explain their interpretation of the rules to managers.
Managers can then question the interpretation of the rule in press conferences instead of going on a big rant and getting a fine.
posted on 5/1/18
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
posted on 5/1/18
This guy - (U21433) - is surely trolling.
---------------------
No, he just has a strong opinion about referees. As evident by another referee article he made nearly 6 months ago.
posted on 5/1/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/1/18
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And when we have referees leaving for other shores or occupations as they receive no backing from their employer?
I'm a financial accountant and if I felt my employer wasn't backing me, I'd leave in a heartbeat; that's without constant criticism from fans, players, pundits, the press as well.
posted on 5/1/18
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reasonable, I agree. I’d say they already do
posted on 5/1/18
HenrysCat (U3608)
I think you've missed the point.
No one is asking fans to stop moaning about decisions.
What they're saying is that if fans can't accept that most decisions are subjective then they're idiots.
posted on 5/1/18
comment by rooney_hernandez (U7012)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by HenrysCat (U3608)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 17 minutes ago
I’d rather have a petition against fans that don’t understand subjectivity and yet moan continuously at referees for getting things wrong...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Meh, moaning about the referee has been part of the post-match pub debate since referees were invented. Too much made of it. Move on. Managers should be fully entitled to moan about them too - the FA need to suck it up and accept reasonable criticism.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And when we have referees leaving for other shores or occupations as they receive no backing from their employer?
I'm a financial accountant and if I felt my employer wasn't backing me, I'd leave in a heartbeat; that's without constant criticism from fans, players, pundits, the press as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they can't accept some people disagree with them, then maybe it's best they do find a job do something else.
I doubt the example you've given is quite so subjective - it's hard to draw any parallels between the two at all for that matter, but if you continuously mucked up someones account I doubt your employer would back you too much, nor miss you if you left.
posted on 5/1/18
This is a silly idea, referees are paid an absolute pittance and frankly I don't understand why anybody wants to work their way up through the ranks being abused for virtually no pay.
If we start paying them commensurate with their influence then maybe - but this policy as it stands would have the opposite effect of the one intended - even fewer people would want to deal with the aggravation and with fewer referees not only would there be a logistical problem, the standard would inevitably go down as well
posted on 5/1/18
I do accept that was a difficult one to compare, but it just so happens I do a boring job!!
Anyhow, I would no doubt come under scrutiny and even disciplinary action, given continued bad performance, but the difference between my job, your job, most people's job, and a referee's is that these discussions or disciplinaries would happen in private, between employee and employer.
Referees are subjected to public abuse. If you take the total of correct decisions made, they are not underperforming. Hell, if I got 98% of my decisions correct in my work every day, I'd be well on my way to partner!
There are countless times I disagree with a client's treatment when given a subjective item, and if they came back berating me as such, you can guarantee I'd be backed up by the firm.
Maybe that is the significant difference, I suppose; I am able to justify my decisions with detailed emails or phone calls or reports, whereas referees do not have that liberty...nor do accountants have to make snapshot decisions on game-changing matters! All in all, a bad comparison on my part.
I just think that they only way competent officiating is sustainable is through a continued talent pool willing to do the job - the bigger the better - and this won't continue if every referee we see is berated, not backed up, and not respected in the footballing world.
posted on 5/1/18
Anyway, I think the only real problem here is the way in which managers choose to air their grievance - in public, on TV, directly after the match - not the complaint itself. Maybe this happens out of frustration from the FA not acting on complaints when sent through "official" channels, maybe it's just out of said manger "losing his sh-t" in the heat of the moment. I don't know, but if it's the latter, I don't know anyone could complain about that manager being sanctioned.
Page 2 of 3