Obviously I mean £50m package for Sissoko although £50 is to much also
comment by ツ Hєиgу+ (U9129)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sadly Poch just does not trust the younger players but that is his choice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm happy to be told that I've misunderstood, but I can't really agree with this claim.
Poch puts a lot of trust in younger players. From the outside it seems that he gives them the chances, or plans their progression through loans.
Compare him to Mourinho?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He did but not so much anymore. Although let’s not get confused from young players he’ll play as long as they are good enough ie dele, Sanchez it’s the youth players where he’s struggling with now.
The next batch after the Kane, mason, Carroll & Townsend were KWP, Onomah, Winks, CCV and so far only Winks has managed to get decent game time.
I guess you can argue they aren’t good enough but I’m not so sure. KWP is fantastic but after a MoM game v Newcastle we bought another RB and his only game time is playing LB. That to me is bad management.
Surely giving Onomah game time in his position CM instead of buying Sissoko couldn’t have gone worse than us seeing Sissoko playing it especially at the cost of £50 Sissoko package has cost us.
I suppose it’s easier to give playing time to players that cost us money than ones we are developing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post.
The KWP point I agree with completely. Felt a bit gutted for the lad when we signed Aurier.
Sissoko... I maintain that he is a better player for us than he gets credit for. He does a job. Would Onomah be better? Whow knows. From what I've heard he is good at Villa but not exceptional.
It's tricky - he manages a club that is expected to be in the CL and compete in the PL. To do that, you need players that you know will play at that level. The kids coming through have to be exceptionally good to be trusted enough to keep another experienced player who has proved themselves out. Which makes it really hard to get the balance of youth vs. signing players right.
You also get the fans - if we hadn't signed Moura, and instead had promoted (say) Edwards, and Edwards couldn't cut it and we finished 5th, fans would be going mad at the end of the season.
I don't envy Poch at all, but i reckon he is a good judge and if a young player is good enough then they're in.
From the day poch started to now is a totally different circumstances so it was easier to prmote at the start as we was ripping the squad apart to rebuild it in a different manner.
Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote but I still think we could do better although I’m happy poch has changed his view on loaning them out of can’t get a chance.
I don’t like the waste of a season just so they can train with the first team and poch to see if they are good enough. Much prefer the get them out to L1/championship and go get a taste of men’s football and the pressure you get with it.
You’ll always have some unhappy though. Either the youth watchers or the buy big players section.
As for Onomah don’t listen to the villa fans. Some of the most moaning caaants ever. Plus he’s playing under a dinosaur in Steve Bruce.
He had Onomah playing in every position going this season.
comment by ツ Hєиgу+ (U9129)
posted 11 minutes ago
From the day poch started to now is a totally different circumstances so it was easier to prmote at the start as we was ripping the squad apart to rebuild it in a different manner.
Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote but I still think we could do better although I’m happy poch has changed his view on loaning them out of can’t get a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, good post
"Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote"
That;s it in a nutshell.
But I still disagree with LLM that Poch doesn't trust youth. He does, they just need to be special.
Great thread, good chat for once
Thanks for the link Henge
comment by ツ Hєиgу+ (U9129)
posted 3 hours, 47 minutes ago
From the day poch started to now is a totally different circumstances so it was easier to prmote at the start as we was ripping the squad apart to rebuild it in a different manner.
Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote but I still think we could do better although I’m happy poch has changed his view on loaning them out of can’t get a chance.
I don’t like the waste of a season just so they can train with the first team and poch to see if they are good enough. Much prefer the get them out to L1/championship and go get a taste of men’s football and the pressure you get with it.
You’ll always have some unhappy though. Either the youth watchers or the buy big players section.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ll always be for sending out those players stuck in that ‘middle ground’ on loan. When I say middle ground I mean too good for U23 but not ready for the senior squad. I just think you can gain so much being in a competitive environment mentally. Using Onomah as an example, he’s trying to get regular games for Villa, a team fighting for promotion.
How does he cope with the pressure?
Can he retain his place?
Can he play freely in the relative spotlight?
Probably a few more you can throw in there, but it’s things he won’t learn and experience while playing a few cup games for us. Kane amongst others is a great example as to how you can mature in a meaningful and competitive environment. Same as that caaant John Terry who went on loan to Nottingham Forest many years ago.
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Reo is in a hot patch right now cannot stop scoring theoretically he should be involved against Rochdale (well Sterling should be ahead of Reo) but they will not be because sadly Poch just does not trust the younger players but that is his choice.
Reo was originally a defender then a winger only recently converted to a forward but his step up in development has been huge sometimes it just "clicks" for younger player needs a lot of work but despite all that he is scoring so its a huge positive. Physically he developed faster than some which is helping his hold up play etc. Its a blessing and curse for youngsters cos i used to love maghoma but he was doing so well because physically he was bigger and stronger than the other boys. Now everyone has developed his abilities are negated.
The rumour is bizarre because Paul Mitchell was let go because he would not listen to anyone. Well he was being let go then tried to join another club derby i think it was so we put him on gardening leave to stop that!
Mitchell refused to watch the youth teams and would rarely leave his office. The biggest complaint anyone had was that how can you shop for a certain type of player if you do not know what type of player you have at the football club.
To see him linked with a youth player is bizarre at best it would have nothing to do with him if true.
I thought reo had signed a new contract, i dont think he is out of contract as they report. I think they are confused with Shilow Tracey personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of Shilow Tracey, any views on the lad? Came with a bit of a fanfare as I remember but haven't heard anything of note about him?
@notso
No problem mate my issue with Poch trusting the youth is that he used to but now he is not very active with it. Mcdermott managed to overrule him with the loans hence why a few have left on loan.
KWP was man of the match on debut then dropped, TOB was training with the first team but not getting any game time criminal at 17.
Poch rewards and it is quite well known for hard work not performances (very old school). Georgiou being a prime example being used for his hard work in coming back from a horrible injury. Lesniak playing despite being told about his release three weeks prior because of his hard work.
We have games with the opportunity to play younger players like rochdale coming up but we will not and it is frustrating. How many minutes has N'kodou deserved guy is usually cannot even get off the bench at Burnley. Llorente is out of form give Sterling a go. Aurier and trippier are average let Kwp have a game at right back not left back. Dembele struggles with injury give TOB a chance.
I am not saying play them against United or Arsenal but give them a sniff and at the moment there is no pathway for them.
comment by Salt Beef Boy (U2699)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Reo is in a hot patch right now cannot stop scoring theoretically he should be involved against Rochdale (well Sterling should be ahead of Reo) but they will not be because sadly Poch just does not trust the younger players but that is his choice.
Reo was originally a defender then a winger only recently converted to a forward but his step up in development has been huge sometimes it just "clicks" for younger player needs a lot of work but despite all that he is scoring so its a huge positive. Physically he developed faster than some which is helping his hold up play etc. Its a blessing and curse for youngsters cos i used to love maghoma but he was doing so well because physically he was bigger and stronger than the other boys. Now everyone has developed his abilities are negated.
The rumour is bizarre because Paul Mitchell was let go because he would not listen to anyone. Well he was being let go then tried to join another club derby i think it was so we put him on gardening leave to stop that!
Mitchell refused to watch the youth teams and would rarely leave his office. The biggest complaint anyone had was that how can you shop for a certain type of player if you do not know what type of player you have at the football club.
To see him linked with a youth player is bizarre at best it would have nothing to do with him if true.
I thought reo had signed a new contract, i dont think he is out of contract as they report. I think they are confused with Shilow Tracey personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of Shilow Tracey, any views on the lad? Came with a bit of a fanfare as I remember but haven't heard anything of note about him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is ok mate great pace. Played as right back, right wing back, right winger as a centre forward his position he was bought for.
Being released in the summer and was on trial a few weeks back at a lower level club with one of the other boys i think it was dylan duncan maybe? Memories blurred but was defo on trial.
Another hat trick for Reo today
Crazy hengs. Just got back and seen it. He has to be involved now against Rochdale surely.
So rare you see it click for a young player but he could score off of his bum from the halfway line at this stage and it would not be surprise.
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Page 2 of 2
posted on 22/2/18
Obviously I mean £50m package for Sissoko although £50 is to much also
posted on 22/2/18
comment by ツ Hєиgу+ (U9129)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sadly Poch just does not trust the younger players but that is his choice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm happy to be told that I've misunderstood, but I can't really agree with this claim.
Poch puts a lot of trust in younger players. From the outside it seems that he gives them the chances, or plans their progression through loans.
Compare him to Mourinho?!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He did but not so much anymore. Although let’s not get confused from young players he’ll play as long as they are good enough ie dele, Sanchez it’s the youth players where he’s struggling with now.
The next batch after the Kane, mason, Carroll & Townsend were KWP, Onomah, Winks, CCV and so far only Winks has managed to get decent game time.
I guess you can argue they aren’t good enough but I’m not so sure. KWP is fantastic but after a MoM game v Newcastle we bought another RB and his only game time is playing LB. That to me is bad management.
Surely giving Onomah game time in his position CM instead of buying Sissoko couldn’t have gone worse than us seeing Sissoko playing it especially at the cost of £50 Sissoko package has cost us.
I suppose it’s easier to give playing time to players that cost us money than ones we are developing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good post.
The KWP point I agree with completely. Felt a bit gutted for the lad when we signed Aurier.
Sissoko... I maintain that he is a better player for us than he gets credit for. He does a job. Would Onomah be better? Whow knows. From what I've heard he is good at Villa but not exceptional.
It's tricky - he manages a club that is expected to be in the CL and compete in the PL. To do that, you need players that you know will play at that level. The kids coming through have to be exceptionally good to be trusted enough to keep another experienced player who has proved themselves out. Which makes it really hard to get the balance of youth vs. signing players right.
You also get the fans - if we hadn't signed Moura, and instead had promoted (say) Edwards, and Edwards couldn't cut it and we finished 5th, fans would be going mad at the end of the season.
I don't envy Poch at all, but i reckon he is a good judge and if a young player is good enough then they're in.
posted on 22/2/18
From the day poch started to now is a totally different circumstances so it was easier to prmote at the start as we was ripping the squad apart to rebuild it in a different manner.
Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote but I still think we could do better although I’m happy poch has changed his view on loaning them out of can’t get a chance.
I don’t like the waste of a season just so they can train with the first team and poch to see if they are good enough. Much prefer the get them out to L1/championship and go get a taste of men’s football and the pressure you get with it.
You’ll always have some unhappy though. Either the youth watchers or the buy big players section.
posted on 22/2/18
As for Onomah don’t listen to the villa fans. Some of the most moaning caaants ever. Plus he’s playing under a dinosaur in Steve Bruce.
He had Onomah playing in every position going this season.
posted on 22/2/18
comment by ツ Hєиgу+ (U9129)
posted 11 minutes ago
From the day poch started to now is a totally different circumstances so it was easier to prmote at the start as we was ripping the squad apart to rebuild it in a different manner.
Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote but I still think we could do better although I’m happy poch has changed his view on loaning them out of can’t get a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, good post
"Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote"
That;s it in a nutshell.
But I still disagree with LLM that Poch doesn't trust youth. He does, they just need to be special.
posted on 22/2/18
Great thread, good chat for once
Thanks for the link Henge
posted on 22/2/18
comment by ツ Hєиgу+ (U9129)
posted 3 hours, 47 minutes ago
From the day poch started to now is a totally different circumstances so it was easier to prmote at the start as we was ripping the squad apart to rebuild it in a different manner.
Now we have almost the complete squad so is becoming harder to promote but I still think we could do better although I’m happy poch has changed his view on loaning them out of can’t get a chance.
I don’t like the waste of a season just so they can train with the first team and poch to see if they are good enough. Much prefer the get them out to L1/championship and go get a taste of men’s football and the pressure you get with it.
You’ll always have some unhappy though. Either the youth watchers or the buy big players section.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ll always be for sending out those players stuck in that ‘middle ground’ on loan. When I say middle ground I mean too good for U23 but not ready for the senior squad. I just think you can gain so much being in a competitive environment mentally. Using Onomah as an example, he’s trying to get regular games for Villa, a team fighting for promotion.
How does he cope with the pressure?
Can he retain his place?
Can he play freely in the relative spotlight?
Probably a few more you can throw in there, but it’s things he won’t learn and experience while playing a few cup games for us. Kane amongst others is a great example as to how you can mature in a meaningful and competitive environment. Same as that caaant John Terry who went on loan to Nottingham Forest many years ago.
posted on 22/2/18
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Reo is in a hot patch right now cannot stop scoring theoretically he should be involved against Rochdale (well Sterling should be ahead of Reo) but they will not be because sadly Poch just does not trust the younger players but that is his choice.
Reo was originally a defender then a winger only recently converted to a forward but his step up in development has been huge sometimes it just "clicks" for younger player needs a lot of work but despite all that he is scoring so its a huge positive. Physically he developed faster than some which is helping his hold up play etc. Its a blessing and curse for youngsters cos i used to love maghoma but he was doing so well because physically he was bigger and stronger than the other boys. Now everyone has developed his abilities are negated.
The rumour is bizarre because Paul Mitchell was let go because he would not listen to anyone. Well he was being let go then tried to join another club derby i think it was so we put him on gardening leave to stop that!
Mitchell refused to watch the youth teams and would rarely leave his office. The biggest complaint anyone had was that how can you shop for a certain type of player if you do not know what type of player you have at the football club.
To see him linked with a youth player is bizarre at best it would have nothing to do with him if true.
I thought reo had signed a new contract, i dont think he is out of contract as they report. I think they are confused with Shilow Tracey personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of Shilow Tracey, any views on the lad? Came with a bit of a fanfare as I remember but haven't heard anything of note about him?
posted on 22/2/18
@notso
No problem mate my issue with Poch trusting the youth is that he used to but now he is not very active with it. Mcdermott managed to overrule him with the loans hence why a few have left on loan.
KWP was man of the match on debut then dropped, TOB was training with the first team but not getting any game time criminal at 17.
Poch rewards and it is quite well known for hard work not performances (very old school). Georgiou being a prime example being used for his hard work in coming back from a horrible injury. Lesniak playing despite being told about his release three weeks prior because of his hard work.
We have games with the opportunity to play younger players like rochdale coming up but we will not and it is frustrating. How many minutes has N'kodou deserved guy is usually cannot even get off the bench at Burnley. Llorente is out of form give Sterling a go. Aurier and trippier are average let Kwp have a game at right back not left back. Dembele struggles with injury give TOB a chance.
I am not saying play them against United or Arsenal but give them a sniff and at the moment there is no pathway for them.
posted on 22/2/18
comment by Salt Beef Boy (U2699)
posted 53 minutes ago
comment by look like modric (U7431)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
Reo is in a hot patch right now cannot stop scoring theoretically he should be involved against Rochdale (well Sterling should be ahead of Reo) but they will not be because sadly Poch just does not trust the younger players but that is his choice.
Reo was originally a defender then a winger only recently converted to a forward but his step up in development has been huge sometimes it just "clicks" for younger player needs a lot of work but despite all that he is scoring so its a huge positive. Physically he developed faster than some which is helping his hold up play etc. Its a blessing and curse for youngsters cos i used to love maghoma but he was doing so well because physically he was bigger and stronger than the other boys. Now everyone has developed his abilities are negated.
The rumour is bizarre because Paul Mitchell was let go because he would not listen to anyone. Well he was being let go then tried to join another club derby i think it was so we put him on gardening leave to stop that!
Mitchell refused to watch the youth teams and would rarely leave his office. The biggest complaint anyone had was that how can you shop for a certain type of player if you do not know what type of player you have at the football club.
To see him linked with a youth player is bizarre at best it would have nothing to do with him if true.
I thought reo had signed a new contract, i dont think he is out of contract as they report. I think they are confused with Shilow Tracey personally.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of Shilow Tracey, any views on the lad? Came with a bit of a fanfare as I remember but haven't heard anything of note about him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He is ok mate great pace. Played as right back, right wing back, right winger as a centre forward his position he was bought for.
Being released in the summer and was on trial a few weeks back at a lower level club with one of the other boys i think it was dylan duncan maybe? Memories blurred but was defo on trial.
posted on 24/2/18
Another hat trick for Reo today
posted on 24/2/18
Crazy hengs. Just got back and seen it. He has to be involved now against Rochdale surely.
So rare you see it click for a young player but he could score off of his bum from the halfway line at this stage and it would not be surprise.
Page 2 of 2