Unfashionable managers like him tend to get the boot at the earliest opportunity....

Hi Mersey agree with everything and if we are in the bottom three he will be given the order of the boot. But i don't think that will happen.
If it wasn't for all the stuff that came out of the Southampton fans (look where they are now) would we be even discussing this now.

The big issue is getting players in that want to play this system and now nearly three years on moving out the older senior players. That won't be easy especially as they have seen what happened Drinkwater.

Good post

I think his best bet (both for our club’s chances of finishing 7th and his own employment) is to stick with that consistent 11 until the end of the season. No one can then moan that he didn’t try his hardest to earn us 7th place, and I think it is the best bet for a bit of momentum and stability going into the summer/next season.

I think because he is actually keen to make us a more possession based team, he is far more open to chopping and changing players within a 4-4-2/4/4-1-1 because it clearly isn’t his preferred option. This has a positive and negative linked to it.

Positive: he will probably be more likely to stick with a little more consistency when he moulds his own formation/tactics hopefully even more successfully next season.

Negative: he may be tempted to tinker still between now and the end of the season. 2 out of 2 with the same starting 11 but if Ndidi had not been banned I think he may have dropped Okazaki and/or Albrighton.

What I would say is that he clearly has good intentions and his reversion to what most would see as our current strongest 11 shows his doesn’t have blind stubbornness.

I think try a little something new, reign it in a bit and try a little bit more is his best tactic for next season and actually, if that means some football which is a little slower and perhaps at times, because of the current personnel, a little impotent I can deal with that. The caveat to this is that we retain/improve on his current points average of 1.5 per game during this transition period as dull/ineffective football and a drop in points doesn’t usually equate to a long stay.

The main issue will be if the football isn’t more effective (I guess both in terms of entertainment but definitely points tally) when he has his chosen personnel, formation, tactics and has had a reasonable amount of time to bed it in.....after all: what’s the point in bringing in a new/evolved ethos if it doesn’t improve where we are currently at?

This is the general, perilous route for managers looking to make a significant change long term; battling the mine field of transition and the proof in the pudding long term, whilst avoiding the sack before they have the chance.

I think Puel deserves at the very least until Christmas (this is as things stands in terms of what he has done and the projection I have in my head of progress).

I still have my reservations about completely abandoning something that has worked well for us (and still works) and concerns about how quickly Puel can implement his new blueprint (as mentioned, often it’s the stumbles on the journey that get managers the sack a bit too quickly rather than where they are heading too) but at the moment, I see little justification to abandon it and Puel.

*heading to*

Good reasoned post Mersey.

As we all know it's all down to the Owners though and whether they feel we're going in the right direction.

Good balanced perspective Mersey considering that deep down you feel the same way about the future of the club that I do.

It really is down to the owners as TB says. I haven’t been as convinced as everyone else over their footballing (not financial) decision making. I think they as well as Ranieri, Shakey and Puel have been dining off their own earlier success for some time - e.g Mahrez, Vardy etc. They are also still benefiting from the recruitment system Walsh put in place

However - as fantastic as their decision making was when they hired NP and Walsh, after that I feel that have made some rash decisions and have been exceptionally fortunate with some of them. The sacking and re-instating of Pearson, the gamble they took with Ranieri (paid off spectacularly), the poor decision to give Shakey the job FT, being left with really very limited options other than Puel

I know Lineker has talked in negative terms about how the club is run from a footballing perspective and the next 12 months will show us if the Thais really know what they are doing or not. Are they seeing a bigger picture and a roadmap for this club we are not? Or are they, as I suspect, coasting from the previous amazing success and unable to see where this is all heading when the old guard step away

If we don't get the results we need against Newcastle and then Burnley then seventh is off the agenda and he can give runs to younger players maybe rest Morgan and see how other options work. For some reason i don't think he fancys Silva much?
But if he does that till the and of the season and we still finish eighth do we see that as an issue?

Excellent post Mersey. One of the most considered and balanced posts on this subject for some time.

I am 100% behind Puel, what he is trying to achieve and the way he is going about it.

Let's give him time and get behind the team from now to the end of the season, and we may just have a mini European adventure to look forward to.

I would broadly agree with the OP.

Nev - I don't think we could say that seventh was off the agenda so soon, and I wouldn't expect the squad to decide it off the back of one defeat. I'd expect them to keep challenging until it genuinely wasn't possible any longer. That said, if and when we reach that stage then I too would like to see one or two people getting a run out, particularly one of the centre halves that have been doing well in the U21s. (I imagine Puel and his staff can make a decision about Dragovic based on what they've seen and they don't seem that keen.)

I'm somewhat guessing here, but I think Puel's issue with Silva is that he loses the ball too much by trying too many sub-optimal things in dangerous places on the pitch. That and getting the wrong side of opposing midfielders too much and giving them free rein to run at the defence. I'd like to see more of him because he's energetic, exciting and arguably trying too hard to stand out with understandable concerns about his place in the Portuguese World Cup squad, but I can kind of see why Puel wouldn't trust him.

Dung i am saying that if we lose to Burnley that's a six pointer and Newcastle then we will struggle to make seventh unless theres a England style collapse by Burnley.

Practically speaking I agree, Nev. And I rather suspect Burnley will win their match against us because they and their fans will want it more. Win that and they'll feel they've got 7th and a European tour. Their fans have already been singing it so it's clear that they're keen. Having their main rivals for the position visit will essentially be their season's cup final.

However, I don't believe Puel would stick out the kids while seventh was still possible even if highly unlikely, and even if we do lose to Burnley.

Interesting points around using fringe players who we may want to see more of either to decide to retain, or to bring in to the first team next year. However this should only be done if and when the season is over (I.e. we can’t make 7th realistically).

We should be looking to go to Burnley and winning. We have the players to do it. They will be very well organised and hard to break down, so this will be a perfect game for our creative players to step up and show what they can do.

Without Ndidi, I’d be tempted by 4-4-2 for that game. Get Nacho or Okazaki up with Vardy and let Silva play a box to box role. We can then have a more defensive back 4 to deal with the Burnley threat. Fat chance of that though I think.

General agreement on this thread so I’ll pick up on what BS has said of our owners decision making on the footballing side of things. Have they really got a big decision wrong after their rather disastrous start?

Re-appoint Pearson and gain promotion and retention to the premier league.

Sack Pearson and appoint Ranieri to win the league.

Sack Ranieri when we looked nailed on doomed and appoint the coach under which we’ve had our greatest ever success. Coach steps up and players petition for his appointment so he gets the gig.

Sack the coach after he looks a bit out of his depth (albeit too soon imo) and appoint a tactician to work with the current coach. The Ranieri Shakey model again.

Players seem happy, results are decent and we climb the table.

If you look at that, you’d argue they haven’t put a foot wrong. However, I agree with you in that I’ve heard some very respected people close to our club suddenly talking about our wonderful set up to a dysfunctional one.

I find Kasper’s Dad very interesting. Once a huge vocal supporter of our set up to being openly critical. For saying he attends games and his son plays for us that’s a big move. Why I ask? What’s happening there?

Is there a poison that’s now infiltrating our club and impacting our ability to progress, ready to turn us in to the next stoke, wba, sunderland? Or are these just unfair bias accusations against owners that continue to inclvest in our club from top to bottom.

I really don’t know.

Mersey - I find it very hard to tell whether people like Lineker know something or are just sounding off their frustration. Nobody ever gives a name, for instance. So are people just complaining that we didn't do very good business in the transfer window, that the owners don't know what they're doing/badly advised, or that there's some poisonous influence within the club (hard to believe as everything goes back to the owners anyway)?

Aside from not having a clue of what to do after winning the league - and frankly who can blame them as nobody expected it and there were no models to follow - I'm not sure what else they are supposed to have done.

I broadly agree Dunge. In my mind, our owners are the single greatest thing ever to happen to our club and whatever happens from now, they should receive our eternal gratitude.

However, I would like to understand more about the going’s on in the corporate footballing side of the club, with who and how the decisions are being made.

The fact that no individuals are being referenced suggest it could just be opinion, but I have a suspicion that something, or someone is a problem.

Clearly we should all blame Rudkin.

The people that should take a good look themselves are the players none of the managers you have mentioned have kicked a ball and all except Pearson who got himself fired have been let down by the players.

Just a bit of nit picking "we looked doomed under CR but Shakey who had us in the bottom three should of been given more time

Kaspers dad should shut up his son and the senior players have had to much power imo

Is our esteemed DOF JR the poisouness
ibflience. He'll still be here for the summer window.

and was well er Sven really a disastarous start
for the owners. He got us out of the mess that Sousa
left, and did bring Kasper in.

and is our current form that bad. Form is usually based
on results. Our premier league form in 2018
W 4
D4
L2 one of whivh was Man City away

and dont write off Burbley away. 2014 basically a
championship decider Burnley 0 Leicester 2
2015 basically a Prem relegation decider
Burnley 0 Leicester 1

In C;laude we trust

UTF

Typo alert

poisonous influence

UTF

Mersey - all of those decisions by the owners that you cite, except the first one, have either been extraordinary gambles that have paid off spectacularly (Ranieri) or have worked simply because we still have the old guard (Vardy and Mahrez) to pull us out of a hole.

If you were that confident about the owners ability to make good footballing decisions then you wouldn’t be remotely concerned about next season. But you are concerned. Because deep down, like me, once the title winning team dissipates, I don’t think you’ve seen enough to feel confident that they can repeat the Ranieri decision for example, or the Pearson one.

Don’t take it as an ungrateful swipe at the owners - beat thing ever to happen to us - BUT Lineker does know things behind the scenes that most of us don’t.

Time is a great revealer and next season will start showing whether we have owners who are absolutely sound footballing wise, or incredibly good businessmen with big ambitions - but not the footballing know how to make it happen

I should say ‘make it happen in the long term’ - I.e make us a sustainable PL club that competes in Europe

comment by Nevsaysagoal2city (U5194)
posted 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
The people that should take a good look themselves are the players none of the managers you have mentioned have kicked a ball and all except Pearson who got himself fired have been let down by the players.

Just a bit of nit picking "we looked doomed under CR but Shakey who had us in the bottom three should of been given more time

Kaspers dad should shut up his son and the senior players have had to much power imo


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ironically ONLY Pearson was let down by his players including his Son.

There is a rumour doing the rounds that CP has been told that he is out if we don't finish seventh or higher.

Bow - that would be disappointing, he took over when we were in dire straits and has us safe by March, with a chance of getting into Europe. Also doing this whilst clearly developing a new style. As long as we have a reasonable run to the end of the season, I'd expect him to be given the chance to build on that over the Summer.

A bad start to next season, with us in a relegation battle rather than challenging for Europe will likely see him sacked before Christmas. The owners have shown a propensity to panic in such situations.

Are the owners really that quick to act? I think they've been quite balanced over the years:

Sousa: Gave him the chop quickly but I don't think many could argue given that the players clearly weren't fit.
Sven: Was proving expensive, especially for the Championship. Arguably went too soon; arguably had gone as far as he could in that league.
Pearson: Still unclear what truly happened after the McArthur incident but they kept him on even when it looked like we were going down because the players were still energised. That suggests to me that they weren't just making decisions based on what they saw on the pitch.
Ranieri: We were trash for some time before they gave him the chop, and only just in time.
Shakespeare: Fired as it became more apparent that he didn't have the nous required for management. Arguably they should have worked that out earlier but on the other hand he had done an excellent job as an interim and it was likely a choice of either giving him a go at the main job or seeing him leave regardless.

Personally I don't believe that demonstrates a propensity to panic.

Dunge. I don't know when he was told that, if he was, but if it was a while ago then that would be target setting not panicing.
I hope CP is here to stay: he clearly wants to develop the team and utilise youngsters who can only learn from experience and to finish eighth whilst doing that is fine by me.

Bowstring - My reply was more to nuneaton's last comment than yours.

Whether or not he'll be fired if he doesn't finish 7th... instinct says I wouldn't have thought so but it's so hard to tell with these things. As you suggest, I would have thought Puel would set it as a target for his squad but I'm struggling to see how and when 7th+ could have been set as an absolute target from the owners. Unless we go on a horrendous run over the remainder of the season which gives the owners real cause for concern, I would have thought he'd be here at the start of next season.