comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 3 minutes ago
It always strikes me as quite amazing that West Ham haven't won the top league at some point. Maybe it feels different to Londoners but they always strike me as a club that's big enough to have had that glory on 2 or 3 occasions.
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Nah I have never got that feeling with West Ham, to me the only big thing about that club is the level of delusion from their fans.
comment by Striketeam7 (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
The window has just opened, plenty of time for us to sign a couple of top players, possibly a statement signing like Bale for the new stadium.
No way is Salah going to do as well next year either, so the rest will need to step up. The keeper situation is still as dire ever at Anfield, Klopp can't stop losing finals, and Lpool have developed a habit of letting things slip when the pressure is on.
Neither of us will get near City for the title, or United likely, but I fancy Spurs will finish higher than Lpool and Arsenal again which will see us back in the CL
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Whilst Klopp clearly needs to win a final sooner or later, I do think it's overplayed a little. The 6 finals he's lost have been to Bayern (twice), Wolfsburg, City, Seville and Real Madrid. It's not like he's losing to poor sides! Bayern were better than Dortmund and City and Madrid were better than Liverpool.
I suppose Wolfsburg and Seville stand out although Wolfsburg finished 2nd to Bayern that season and Seville have history in the UEFA cup!
I agree about City. Unless their level drops fairly significantly I think all teams are playing for 2nd next season.
Doesn't surprise me that you fancy Spurs to finish above Liverpool, you're a Spurs fan. Equally I'm sure it won't surprise you that I fancy Liverpool to finish higher. For us to even think about challenging City though Liverpool need to improve the overall quality of the squad. The depth City have is really impressive.
Other than a brief period in the 60s/70s, West Ham have always been tin pot pokey. They have won the same amount of major trophies as league 1 Portsmouth
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 9 minutes ago
Spurs have only won it twice, so it's not a surprice it's been 50 odd years as you aren't exactly title winning material.
It's ridiculous we've gone so long without it, we just haven't been good enough but still you'd be more surprised to see Spurs winning a title than Liverpool just to do with the history of the two clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nowadays I don't think that's true. I'd say we're very slightly better than you and have been a better PL side for about a decade now.
If somebody asked me who is more likely to win the PL out of Spurs and Liverpool next season, I'd say it's about 50/50.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would agree, athough add a caveat that we almost went bust in that time...
Why would you say it's 50/50? We had an arguably better season that you lot and have already made one big signing, have one of the best young midfielders in the world joining as well and have continually made progress since Klopp joined. Spurs seem to be stagnating a little, haven't really added anything significant to their side in a few years and have another year in unfamiliar territory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arguably better season......this article is about the PL. Spurs finished above Liverpool, so there's no 'arguable' about it - Spurs had the better season.
All this with not playing any games at 'home'. It remains to be seen if the new stadium will see a return of Spurs' home form (unbeaten the previous season). In a similar way it remains to be seen if Salah can replicate his form from this season.
You can't judge new signings at least until the window is closed, and even then is too soon to know how much impact they will have.
As such, it's pretty fair (if not a little charitable towards Liverpool) to suggest both teams are about 50/50.
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 9 minutes ago
Spurs have only won it twice, so it's not a surprice it's been 50 odd years as you aren't exactly title winning material.
It's ridiculous we've gone so long without it, we just haven't been good enough but still you'd be more surprised to see Spurs winning a title than Liverpool just to do with the history of the two clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nowadays I don't think that's true. I'd say we're very slightly better than you and have been a better PL side for about a decade now.
If somebody asked me who is more likely to win the PL out of Spurs and Liverpool next season, I'd say it's about 50/50.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would agree, athough add a caveat that we almost went bust in that time...
Why would you say it's 50/50? We had an arguably better season that you lot and have already made one big signing, have one of the best young midfielders in the world joining as well and have continually made progress since Klopp joined. Spurs seem to be stagnating a little, haven't really added anything significant to their side in a few years and have another year in unfamiliar territory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 16 minutes ago
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not too sure about the Arsenal part.
We've only won 8 league titles since the War.
Anyone unfamiliar with the club might be impressed by a return of roughly 1 league title every 10 years. But almost half (3) of them came over a particularly outstanding 6 year period under Wenger.
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's reasonable to think that bringing in Keita and Fabinho whilst (in all probability) losing Can is a net gain for Liverpool. In terms of squad strength even if neither prove to be as good as Can individually.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that a full year of VVD and Robertson rather than half a season each will pay dividends. There's certainly more evidence of that given Liverpool's improved defensive record since January.
Both clubs will buy more players before the window is out, no question about it and who knows how that will go. My point is that Liverpool are visibly improving. So you can look at the past 3 seasons finishing positions and it's absolutely valid because it's fact. But I'd say looking at direction of travel and recent development is equally important for indicators of future achievement.
The spending less part I'm not even slightly bothered about. Spending ridiculous money is part of football these days. As a fan I couldn't care less whether VVD cost Liverpool £75m or £7.50; it's what he does on the pitch that matters to me.
For the record I expect Spurs to have another excellent season next year. I'll be very interested to see what they do over the summer though because it's getting to the point where it's actually difficult to get players that will improve their first 11. Also interesting to see what happens with Alderweireld because this time last season many thought he was the best CB in the league.
Nice discussion fellas without it getting tribal. Keep it up.
I suppose in the long run it doesn`t really matter how long a club has gone since winning the title or any trophy for that matter. It is really all about the here or now. A trophy next season for any club would be very welcome.
comment by Can Solo (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's reasonable to think that bringing in Keita and Fabinho whilst (in all probability) losing Can is a net gain for Liverpool. In terms of squad strength even if neither prove to be as good as Can individually.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that a full year of VVD and Robertson rather than half a season each will pay dividends. There's certainly more evidence of that given Liverpool's improved defensive record since January.
Both clubs will buy more players before the window is out, no question about it and who knows how that will go. My point is that Liverpool are visibly improving. So you can look at the past 3 seasons finishing positions and it's absolutely valid because it's fact. But I'd say looking at direction of travel and recent development is equally important for indicators of future achievement.
The spending less part I'm not even slightly bothered about. Spending ridiculous money is part of football these days. As a fan I couldn't care less whether VVD cost Liverpool £75m or £7.50; it's what he does on the pitch that matters to me.
For the record I expect Spurs to have another excellent season next year. I'll be very interested to see what they do over the summer though because it's getting to the point where it's actually difficult to get players that will improve their first 11. Also interesting to see what happens with Alderweireld because this time last season many thought he was the best CB in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spurs could definitely be improved at right back and central midfield, and definitely need another striker. I get your point though, Spurs first XI is generally pretty good, hence the top three finishes past three seasons. If they could put behind them some of the usual early season dropping of points, and get off to a flyer for once, then they could really be in the mix.
5 years for United, that surprised me. Shows how hard the post-fergie years have been.
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 16 minutes ago
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not too sure about the Arsenal part.
We've only won 8 league titles since the War.
Anyone unfamiliar with the club might be impressed by a return of roughly 1 league title every 10 years. But almost half (3) of them came over a particularly outstanding 6 year period under Wenger.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is still a pretty decent return, when you consider Arsenal did not win their first trophy until 1930. Had a great 1930s, then tapered off a bit, 1950s, although still won the odd trophy, 1960s was a bit of a damp squid, 1971 was a double season, and a cup at the end of the decade, followed by a quite 1980s until the latter end of it, then the Wenger years of the late 90s.
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 48 seconds ago
5 years for United, that surprised me. Shows how hard the post-fergie years have been.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
we all knew it would happen! also he knew exactly it was the best time to leave unlike wenger who should have walked a while ago
Spurs seem to be at an awkward point in their progression now, it's hard to explain.
As said above it's hard to see where you can immediately improve the first 11, maybe upgrades on the fullbacks to get back to the Walker/Rose prime levels.
The fact that so many of your players were either bargains that turned out brilliant, like Eriksen and Son, or were young players nurtured into the players they are now like Alli and Kane, it makes it hard to replace them, or to even admit you could improve on them.
'Upgrades' on most of your players would cost a bomb, so then you look at the bench which is a sudden drop of quality. To have players sat there that wouldn't see a dip in performance should they be needed for extended periods of games, like say Bernardo Silva or Gundogan for City, would again cost a bomb, and may or may not be successful.
Having a back up to Kane is difficult too, how do you have a back up striker that's not a significantly worse player? Spend a fortune on someone who believes they can compete with Kane for the starting spot, sign a player willing to sit on the bench who's in the twilight of their career and maybe offer experience like Soldado or Llorente? Hard to buy the next big thing young striker who needs games to improve, as they would know they aren't going to get them.
I'll be interested to see what Poch does with you, as you seem to be entering the next phase for either progression or stagnation. Suppose his budget will be the sticking point.
Sandy, have you got stats for how long it's been for every title winning team, there has to be some outside of the top flight now e.g. Ipswich?
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 9 minutes ago
Spurs have only won it twice, so it's not a surprice it's been 50 odd years as you aren't exactly title winning material.
It's ridiculous we've gone so long without it, we just haven't been good enough but still you'd be more surprised to see Spurs winning a title than Liverpool just to do with the history of the two clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nowadays I don't think that's true. I'd say we're very slightly better than you and have been a better PL side for about a decade now.
If somebody asked me who is more likely to win the PL out of Spurs and Liverpool next season, I'd say it's about 50/50.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would agree, athough add a caveat that we almost went bust in that time...
Why would you say it's 50/50? We had an arguably better season that you lot and have already made one big signing, have one of the best young midfielders in the world joining as well and have continually made progress since Klopp joined. Spurs seem to be stagnating a little, haven't really added anything significant to their side in a few years and have another year in unfamiliar territory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stagnating is a harsh word to describe it. Fact is that we have improved steadily under Poch, this season we made progress on the European stage and have been beaten to the title by the 2 clubs who have spent between £0.75bn on their teams under their managers...plus given the Wembley effect, some bad injuries, we've actually achieved more than most will have expected....despite these handicaps we've ended above Liverpool who had a gold plated season with Salah which it may be hard to repeat.
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 16 minutes ago
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not too sure about the Arsenal part.
We've only won 8 league titles since the War.
Anyone unfamiliar with the club might be impressed by a return of roughly 1 league title every 10 years. But almost half (3) of them came over a particularly outstanding 6 year period under Wenger.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That is still a pretty decent return, when you consider Arsenal did not win their first trophy until 1930. Had a great 1930s, then tapered off a bit, 1950s, although still won the odd trophy, 1960s was a bit of a damp squid, 1971 was a double season, and a cup at the end of the decade, followed by a quite 1980s until the latter end of it, then the Wenger years of the late 90s.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have any problem with the club's title-winning record.
Just pointing out that a few good years at the top do not necessarily warrant any talk about a "new world order" for any club.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Can Solo (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's reasonable to think that bringing in Keita and Fabinho whilst (in all probability) losing Can is a net gain for Liverpool. In terms of squad strength even if neither prove to be as good as Can individually.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that a full year of VVD and Robertson rather than half a season each will pay dividends. There's certainly more evidence of that given Liverpool's improved defensive record since January.
Both clubs will buy more players before the window is out, no question about it and who knows how that will go. My point is that Liverpool are visibly improving. So you can look at the past 3 seasons finishing positions and it's absolutely valid because it's fact. But I'd say looking at direction of travel and recent development is equally important for indicators of future achievement.
The spending less part I'm not even slightly bothered about. Spending ridiculous money is part of football these days. As a fan I couldn't care less whether VVD cost Liverpool £75m or £7.50; it's what he does on the pitch that matters to me.
For the record I expect Spurs to have another excellent season next year. I'll be very interested to see what they do over the summer though because it's getting to the point where it's actually difficult to get players that will improve their first 11. Also interesting to see what happens with Alderweireld because this time last season many thought he was the best CB in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spurs could definitely be improved at right back and central midfield, and definitely need another striker. I get your point though, Spurs first XI is generally pretty good, hence the top three finishes past three seasons. If they could put behind them some of the usual early season dropping of points, and get off to a flyer for once, then they could really be in the mix.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, RB maybe. Although I assumed Aurier would get a shot next year? Maybe not, haven't really seen the guy play to be honest.
I think what I meant is that Liverpool have more definitive weaknesses. Not sure Spurs have positions people would all point to.
I've said this before but I do think back up to Kane is one of the most difficult purchases. No player is going to look at Spurs and think they can take Kane's place, irrespective of their confidence levels, and it's not like he's close to decline or a move. He could easily be there for another decade. You've basically got to find someone happy to remain on the bench and yet motivated and good enough to play for a top 4 team when called upon. That's a tough, tough ask.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by nWo, made GN great again (U20092)
posted 16 minutes ago
Sandy, have you got stats for how long it's been for every title winning team, there has to be some outside of the top flight now e.g. Ipswich?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have only done Prem teams mate, obviously Ipswich, Blackburn, Derby, Nottm Forest, and Leeds are the five clubs I think that have won the Prem since Spurs last did, add in Portsmouth who have won the title since the war.
Blackburn 23
Leeds 26
Nottm Forest 40
Derby 43
Ipswich 56
Portsmouth 68
This summer does seem pivotal for us, we can't keep treading water transfer wise. We are in a position this summer where if we loosen the purse strings then we could bring in some top talent.
The only player that looks like going whom ideally we would want to keep is Toby, and for various reasons if get the right price then that will be the right decision.
No messing around taking punts on Njie's and Nkodou's. Stop trying to bring in a back up striker, use Sonny/Alli and promote from the youth set up.
And start taking domestic cups seriously, 4th and the league cup is better than 3rd and nothing
Arsenal's final league positions over the past decade or so:
17/18 :6
16/17 :5
15/16 :2
14/15 :3
13/14 :4
12/13 :4
11/12 :3
10/11 :4
09/10 :3
08/09 :4
07/08 :3
06/07 :4
So much for all this talk about "consistency", "steady league progress", "new 60000-seat stadiums", "increased self-generated revenue streams", " net budget", "next level" etc.
All of it means SFA in the end. Especially so, in a league completely dependent on money from TV and "outside sources".
One thing I have to admit, is that such talk sounds very funny coming from someone else, for once.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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Although it is a very long time ago
Page 2 of 3
posted on 30/5/18
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 3 minutes ago
It always strikes me as quite amazing that West Ham haven't won the top league at some point. Maybe it feels different to Londoners but they always strike me as a club that's big enough to have had that glory on 2 or 3 occasions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah I have never got that feeling with West Ham, to me the only big thing about that club is the level of delusion from their fans.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by Striketeam7 (U18109)
posted 39 minutes ago
The window has just opened, plenty of time for us to sign a couple of top players, possibly a statement signing like Bale for the new stadium.
No way is Salah going to do as well next year either, so the rest will need to step up. The keeper situation is still as dire ever at Anfield, Klopp can't stop losing finals, and Lpool have developed a habit of letting things slip when the pressure is on.
Neither of us will get near City for the title, or United likely, but I fancy Spurs will finish higher than Lpool and Arsenal again which will see us back in the CL
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst Klopp clearly needs to win a final sooner or later, I do think it's overplayed a little. The 6 finals he's lost have been to Bayern (twice), Wolfsburg, City, Seville and Real Madrid. It's not like he's losing to poor sides! Bayern were better than Dortmund and City and Madrid were better than Liverpool.
I suppose Wolfsburg and Seville stand out although Wolfsburg finished 2nd to Bayern that season and Seville have history in the UEFA cup!
I agree about City. Unless their level drops fairly significantly I think all teams are playing for 2nd next season.
Doesn't surprise me that you fancy Spurs to finish above Liverpool, you're a Spurs fan. Equally I'm sure it won't surprise you that I fancy Liverpool to finish higher. For us to even think about challenging City though Liverpool need to improve the overall quality of the squad. The depth City have is really impressive.
posted on 30/5/18
Other than a brief period in the 60s/70s, West Ham have always been tin pot pokey. They have won the same amount of major trophies as league 1 Portsmouth
posted on 30/5/18
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 9 minutes ago
Spurs have only won it twice, so it's not a surprice it's been 50 odd years as you aren't exactly title winning material.
It's ridiculous we've gone so long without it, we just haven't been good enough but still you'd be more surprised to see Spurs winning a title than Liverpool just to do with the history of the two clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nowadays I don't think that's true. I'd say we're very slightly better than you and have been a better PL side for about a decade now.
If somebody asked me who is more likely to win the PL out of Spurs and Liverpool next season, I'd say it's about 50/50.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would agree, athough add a caveat that we almost went bust in that time...
Why would you say it's 50/50? We had an arguably better season that you lot and have already made one big signing, have one of the best young midfielders in the world joining as well and have continually made progress since Klopp joined. Spurs seem to be stagnating a little, haven't really added anything significant to their side in a few years and have another year in unfamiliar territory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arguably better season......this article is about the PL. Spurs finished above Liverpool, so there's no 'arguable' about it - Spurs had the better season.
All this with not playing any games at 'home'. It remains to be seen if the new stadium will see a return of Spurs' home form (unbeaten the previous season). In a similar way it remains to be seen if Salah can replicate his form from this season.
You can't judge new signings at least until the window is closed, and even then is too soon to know how much impact they will have.
As such, it's pretty fair (if not a little charitable towards Liverpool) to suggest both teams are about 50/50.
posted on 30/5/18
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 9 minutes ago
Spurs have only won it twice, so it's not a surprice it's been 50 odd years as you aren't exactly title winning material.
It's ridiculous we've gone so long without it, we just haven't been good enough but still you'd be more surprised to see Spurs winning a title than Liverpool just to do with the history of the two clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nowadays I don't think that's true. I'd say we're very slightly better than you and have been a better PL side for about a decade now.
If somebody asked me who is more likely to win the PL out of Spurs and Liverpool next season, I'd say it's about 50/50.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would agree, athough add a caveat that we almost went bust in that time...
Why would you say it's 50/50? We had an arguably better season that you lot and have already made one big signing, have one of the best young midfielders in the world joining as well and have continually made progress since Klopp joined. Spurs seem to be stagnating a little, haven't really added anything significant to their side in a few years and have another year in unfamiliar territory.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
posted on 30/5/18
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 16 minutes ago
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not too sure about the Arsenal part.
We've only won 8 league titles since the War.
Anyone unfamiliar with the club might be impressed by a return of roughly 1 league title every 10 years. But almost half (3) of them came over a particularly outstanding 6 year period under Wenger.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's reasonable to think that bringing in Keita and Fabinho whilst (in all probability) losing Can is a net gain for Liverpool. In terms of squad strength even if neither prove to be as good as Can individually.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that a full year of VVD and Robertson rather than half a season each will pay dividends. There's certainly more evidence of that given Liverpool's improved defensive record since January.
Both clubs will buy more players before the window is out, no question about it and who knows how that will go. My point is that Liverpool are visibly improving. So you can look at the past 3 seasons finishing positions and it's absolutely valid because it's fact. But I'd say looking at direction of travel and recent development is equally important for indicators of future achievement.
The spending less part I'm not even slightly bothered about. Spending ridiculous money is part of football these days. As a fan I couldn't care less whether VVD cost Liverpool £75m or £7.50; it's what he does on the pitch that matters to me.
For the record I expect Spurs to have another excellent season next year. I'll be very interested to see what they do over the summer though because it's getting to the point where it's actually difficult to get players that will improve their first 11. Also interesting to see what happens with Alderweireld because this time last season many thought he was the best CB in the league.
posted on 30/5/18
Nice discussion fellas without it getting tribal. Keep it up.
I suppose in the long run it doesn`t really matter how long a club has gone since winning the title or any trophy for that matter. It is really all about the here or now. A trophy next season for any club would be very welcome.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by Can Solo (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's reasonable to think that bringing in Keita and Fabinho whilst (in all probability) losing Can is a net gain for Liverpool. In terms of squad strength even if neither prove to be as good as Can individually.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that a full year of VVD and Robertson rather than half a season each will pay dividends. There's certainly more evidence of that given Liverpool's improved defensive record since January.
Both clubs will buy more players before the window is out, no question about it and who knows how that will go. My point is that Liverpool are visibly improving. So you can look at the past 3 seasons finishing positions and it's absolutely valid because it's fact. But I'd say looking at direction of travel and recent development is equally important for indicators of future achievement.
The spending less part I'm not even slightly bothered about. Spending ridiculous money is part of football these days. As a fan I couldn't care less whether VVD cost Liverpool £75m or £7.50; it's what he does on the pitch that matters to me.
For the record I expect Spurs to have another excellent season next year. I'll be very interested to see what they do over the summer though because it's getting to the point where it's actually difficult to get players that will improve their first 11. Also interesting to see what happens with Alderweireld because this time last season many thought he was the best CB in the league.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spurs could definitely be improved at right back and central midfield, and definitely need another striker. I get your point though, Spurs first XI is generally pretty good, hence the top three finishes past three seasons. If they could put behind them some of the usual early season dropping of points, and get off to a flyer for once, then they could really be in the mix.
posted on 30/5/18
5 years for United, that surprised me. Shows how hard the post-fergie years have been.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 16 minutes ago
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not too sure about the Arsenal part.
We've only won 8 league titles since the War.
Anyone unfamiliar with the club might be impressed by a return of roughly 1 league title every 10 years. But almost half (3) of them came over a particularly outstanding 6 year period under Wenger.
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That is still a pretty decent return, when you consider Arsenal did not win their first trophy until 1930. Had a great 1930s, then tapered off a bit, 1950s, although still won the odd trophy, 1960s was a bit of a damp squid, 1971 was a double season, and a cup at the end of the decade, followed by a quite 1980s until the latter end of it, then the Wenger years of the late 90s.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by NotSoMagicJuande (U1913)
posted 48 seconds ago
5 years for United, that surprised me. Shows how hard the post-fergie years have been.
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we all knew it would happen! also he knew exactly it was the best time to leave unlike wenger who should have walked a while ago
posted on 30/5/18
Spurs seem to be at an awkward point in their progression now, it's hard to explain.
As said above it's hard to see where you can immediately improve the first 11, maybe upgrades on the fullbacks to get back to the Walker/Rose prime levels.
The fact that so many of your players were either bargains that turned out brilliant, like Eriksen and Son, or were young players nurtured into the players they are now like Alli and Kane, it makes it hard to replace them, or to even admit you could improve on them.
'Upgrades' on most of your players would cost a bomb, so then you look at the bench which is a sudden drop of quality. To have players sat there that wouldn't see a dip in performance should they be needed for extended periods of games, like say Bernardo Silva or Gundogan for City, would again cost a bomb, and may or may not be successful.
Having a back up to Kane is difficult too, how do you have a back up striker that's not a significantly worse player? Spend a fortune on someone who believes they can compete with Kane for the starting spot, sign a player willing to sit on the bench who's in the twilight of their career and maybe offer experience like Soldado or Llorente? Hard to buy the next big thing young striker who needs games to improve, as they would know they aren't going to get them.
I'll be interested to see what Poch does with you, as you seem to be entering the next phase for either progression or stagnation. Suppose his budget will be the sticking point.
posted on 30/5/18
Sandy, have you got stats for how long it's been for every title winning team, there has to be some outside of the top flight now e.g. Ipswich?
posted on 30/5/18
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by If anyone can, Emre Can (U3979)
posted 9 minutes ago
Spurs have only won it twice, so it's not a surprice it's been 50 odd years as you aren't exactly title winning material.
It's ridiculous we've gone so long without it, we just haven't been good enough but still you'd be more surprised to see Spurs winning a title than Liverpool just to do with the history of the two clubs.
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Nowadays I don't think that's true. I'd say we're very slightly better than you and have been a better PL side for about a decade now.
If somebody asked me who is more likely to win the PL out of Spurs and Liverpool next season, I'd say it's about 50/50.
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I would agree, athough add a caveat that we almost went bust in that time...
Why would you say it's 50/50? We had an arguably better season that you lot and have already made one big signing, have one of the best young midfielders in the world joining as well and have continually made progress since Klopp joined. Spurs seem to be stagnating a little, haven't really added anything significant to their side in a few years and have another year in unfamiliar territory.
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Stagnating is a harsh word to describe it. Fact is that we have improved steadily under Poch, this season we made progress on the European stage and have been beaten to the title by the 2 clubs who have spent between £0.75bn on their teams under their managers...plus given the Wembley effect, some bad injuries, we've actually achieved more than most will have expected....despite these handicaps we've ended above Liverpool who had a gold plated season with Salah which it may be hard to repeat.
posted on 30/5/18
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Gillespie Road. (U18361)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by mancini (U7179)
posted 16 minutes ago
It took us 44 years before we won the title again.
Thanks to the heavy investments by the sheikh. Otherwise, we may have gone another 60 years watching United and Arsenal slug it out season after season with the occasional challenge of Chelsea and Liverpool.
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Not too sure about the Arsenal part.
We've only won 8 league titles since the War.
Anyone unfamiliar with the club might be impressed by a return of roughly 1 league title every 10 years. But almost half (3) of them came over a particularly outstanding 6 year period under Wenger.
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That is still a pretty decent return, when you consider Arsenal did not win their first trophy until 1930. Had a great 1930s, then tapered off a bit, 1950s, although still won the odd trophy, 1960s was a bit of a damp squid, 1971 was a double season, and a cup at the end of the decade, followed by a quite 1980s until the latter end of it, then the Wenger years of the late 90s.
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I don't have any problem with the club's title-winning record.
Just pointing out that a few good years at the top do not necessarily warrant any talk about a "new world order" for any club.
posted on 30/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/5/18
comment by sandy (U20567)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Can Solo (U6997)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Edbo (U17933)
posted 16 minutes ago
Nobody knows how well your new signings will do. Will Fabinho be any better than who we currently have in midfield?
Since Klopp took over, Liverpool have finished:
8th, 4th, 4th
Spurs have finished:
3rd, 2nd, 3rd (spending considerably less).
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I think it's reasonable to think that bringing in Keita and Fabinho whilst (in all probability) losing Can is a net gain for Liverpool. In terms of squad strength even if neither prove to be as good as Can individually.
I think it's also reasonable to assume that a full year of VVD and Robertson rather than half a season each will pay dividends. There's certainly more evidence of that given Liverpool's improved defensive record since January.
Both clubs will buy more players before the window is out, no question about it and who knows how that will go. My point is that Liverpool are visibly improving. So you can look at the past 3 seasons finishing positions and it's absolutely valid because it's fact. But I'd say looking at direction of travel and recent development is equally important for indicators of future achievement.
The spending less part I'm not even slightly bothered about. Spending ridiculous money is part of football these days. As a fan I couldn't care less whether VVD cost Liverpool £75m or £7.50; it's what he does on the pitch that matters to me.
For the record I expect Spurs to have another excellent season next year. I'll be very interested to see what they do over the summer though because it's getting to the point where it's actually difficult to get players that will improve their first 11. Also interesting to see what happens with Alderweireld because this time last season many thought he was the best CB in the league.
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Spurs could definitely be improved at right back and central midfield, and definitely need another striker. I get your point though, Spurs first XI is generally pretty good, hence the top three finishes past three seasons. If they could put behind them some of the usual early season dropping of points, and get off to a flyer for once, then they could really be in the mix.
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Yeah, RB maybe. Although I assumed Aurier would get a shot next year? Maybe not, haven't really seen the guy play to be honest.
I think what I meant is that Liverpool have more definitive weaknesses. Not sure Spurs have positions people would all point to.
I've said this before but I do think back up to Kane is one of the most difficult purchases. No player is going to look at Spurs and think they can take Kane's place, irrespective of their confidence levels, and it's not like he's close to decline or a move. He could easily be there for another decade. You've basically got to find someone happy to remain on the bench and yet motivated and good enough to play for a top 4 team when called upon. That's a tough, tough ask.
posted on 30/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 30/5/18
comment by nWo, made GN great again (U20092)
posted 16 minutes ago
Sandy, have you got stats for how long it's been for every title winning team, there has to be some outside of the top flight now e.g. Ipswich?
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I have only done Prem teams mate, obviously Ipswich, Blackburn, Derby, Nottm Forest, and Leeds are the five clubs I think that have won the Prem since Spurs last did, add in Portsmouth who have won the title since the war.
Blackburn 23
Leeds 26
Nottm Forest 40
Derby 43
Ipswich 56
Portsmouth 68
posted on 30/5/18
This summer does seem pivotal for us, we can't keep treading water transfer wise. We are in a position this summer where if we loosen the purse strings then we could bring in some top talent.
The only player that looks like going whom ideally we would want to keep is Toby, and for various reasons if get the right price then that will be the right decision.
No messing around taking punts on Njie's and Nkodou's. Stop trying to bring in a back up striker, use Sonny/Alli and promote from the youth set up.
And start taking domestic cups seriously, 4th and the league cup is better than 3rd and nothing
posted on 30/5/18
Arsenal's final league positions over the past decade or so:
17/18 :6
16/17 :5
15/16 :2
14/15 :3
13/14 :4
12/13 :4
11/12 :3
10/11 :4
09/10 :3
08/09 :4
07/08 :3
06/07 :4
So much for all this talk about "consistency", "steady league progress", "new 60000-seat stadiums", "increased self-generated revenue streams", " net budget", "next level" etc.
All of it means SFA in the end. Especially so, in a league completely dependent on money from TV and "outside sources".
One thing I have to admit, is that such talk sounds very funny coming from someone else, for once.
posted on 30/5/18
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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