He's doing well, but then Jose happened, very unlucky Josh.
comment by ism (U20893)
posted 1 minute ago
He's doing well, but then Jose happened, very unlucky Josh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought so, he came in when the players that were turning in sterile, drab performances were unavailable and did well, what happened when those sterile, drab players became available again - they went straight back in the team.
The most telling thing for me though is how detached from the parent club they start to feel.
Having tasted first team football then going on loan must be devastating for the player. So I can understand his frustration. RLC seems to be in the same position as Josh at the moment.
What is the alternative to the loan system, If the player doesn't want to leave the parent club permanently?
They have a say in their future too and some (if not most) are comfortable with wages, lifestyle etc at Chelsea.
Which they wouldn't be getting if they were to moved on permanently.
Josh McEachran for example was supposedly on £50k - 60k a week, is it any wonder he stayed as long as he did when he got too much too soon. One of many.
Obviously some of them still habour to the dream of breaking into the Chelsea first-team, so refuse to leave permanently.
You can have the cake, but you can't always eat it !
*£50k - 60k a week at 18 years old
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 2 minutes ago
What is the alternative to the loan system, If the player doesn't want to leave the parent club permanently?
They have a say in their future too and some (if not most) are comfortable with wages, lifestyle etc at Chelsea.
Which they wouldn't be getting if they were to moved on permanently.
Josh McEachran for example was supposedly on £50k - 60k a week, is it any wonder he stayed as long as he did when he got too much too soon. One of many.
Obviously some of them still habour to the dream of breaking into the Chelsea first-team, so refuse to leave permanently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well he didn't sound like someone who wanted to sit on 50k a week to me.
I think you do a dis-service to those youngsters who actually harbour an ambition to play for Chelsea.
The simple answer is if they're genuinely are not believed to be good enough, then sell them to a club consummate to their skill level.
comment by harlequinHebdo (U16981)
posted 7 minutes ago
You can have the cake, but you can't always eat it !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never understood that saying!
Every cake I've ever had, I've promptly eaten!
That's not the simple answer BB when the player doesn't want to leave permanently, which was my point!
There is no simple solution.
The point is that Josh was enjoying his time at Chelsea playing regular football with the first team, then Jose sends him loaned, deemed him not good enough or Josh didn’t fit into Jose’s style of play
Too many variables as to why youngsters remain on the books.
Not that Josh helped himself whilst on loan, but the sudden change must have had an impact in his confidence
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 3 minutes ago
That's not the simple answer BB when the player doesn't want to leave permanently, which was my point!
There is no simple solution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At 18, they would probably still hoping to make it at Chelsea level so why would they want to leave without giving it a shot?
I don't think it's any secret though that when they get to 21/22 and still over looked for expensive and not very good signings that they want a more settled environment to progress.
Chalobah and Ake being recent examples!
There probably is no right or wrong answer to this, I think it's a generational thing. Coming from an era when be bought through players like Harris, Bonetti, Venables, Tambling, Bridges, Osgood and Hudson, I admittedly like to see young players come through the youth team and am happy if we give a number time to evolve.
Younger supporters though tend to want to see ready made players and rather other clubs do the hard work of developing youngsters.
All depends on your point of view I suppose.
There has to be a mutual agreement between club AND player, for the player to leave permanently.
That's what needs to be understood.
Not one-sided.
comment by ism (U20893)
posted 11 minutes ago
Not that Josh helped himself whilst on loan, but the sudden change must have had an impact in his confidence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally don't think there's any doubt about that. At 16/17 I thought he was the most naturally gifted player to come through the youth team since Ray Wilkins.
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 3 minutes ago
There has to be a mutual agreement between club AND player, for the player to leave permanently.
That's what needs to be understood.
Not one-sided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A club can release a player anytime they want.
Watched this morning and thought of you Brummie. Forgot Real M offered him a 5 year contract
comment by Bov (U6696)
posted 14 minutes ago
Watched this morning and thought of you Brummie. Forgot Real M offered him a 5 year contract
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Wilkins and Kenny Swain thought very highly of him as well Bov. I believe Butch wanted him promoted to the 1st team.
Our academy has come on a lot since then. I personally believe his brother George is better but Josh was considered our big hope while his bro's not even considered top 5.
comment by No-name (U21614)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
Our academy has come on a lot since then. I personally believe his brother George is better but Josh was considered our big hope while his bro's not even considered top 5.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure George is better, certainly doesn't have the natural talent of Josh. He's a bit more gritty in his style than his brother and will probably have to work harder at his game than Josh. Sort of like Kevin Keegan was - that's not a bad thing though!
I'm not so sure. I think loans should help to develop young talent by giving them opportunities on a regular basis that we can't. I'm of the opinion that players who are good enough will make it, and if they're not then they'll find your level elsewhere.
Kane, Beckham, etc - they went on loan and it must have helped them develop into the player they became
comment by jesus6662 (U8600)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm not so sure. I think loans should help to develop young talent by giving them opportunities on a regular basis that we can't. I'm of the opinion that players who are good enough will make it, and if they're not then they'll find your level elsewhere.
Kane, Beckham, etc - they went on loan and it must have helped them develop into the player they became
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They didn't continually get sent out on loan to countless clubs, which is the problem!
The counter to that is Lukaku, KDB, Salah and Courtois. All players who went on loan and succeeded. I think it would be better to loan a player to the same club rather than a different one each season, however I can’t help believe that if a player is good enough he will make it. I don’t think a player can blame the loan system for his failure to make it.
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
The counter to that is Lukaku, KDB, Salah and Courtois. All players who went on loan and succeeded. I think it would be better to loan a player to the same club rather than a different one each season, however I can’t help believe that if a player is good enough he will make it. I don’t think a player can blame the loan system for his failure to make it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Biggish but I have to disagree with that. The players you mention all had to leave Chelsea to succeed.
No matter how good they were, the policy at Chelsea recently has always been that an established player will always prevail over youth, no matter how poorly they perform. Hopefully that will change under Sarri.
In the case of KDB and Lukaku, they had every right to expect to be picked given the mediocrity of some of the players in front of them.
The argument for lengthy loans at one club has it's own particular down fall as well as we've seen with Courtois, as they become settled in the area they're loaned to. Christensen also was not keen on coming back from Monchengladback!
I didn’t realise you were talking about succeeding at Chelsea, I thought you just meant in general. We need a more tolerant philosophy to winning trophies if we are to allow more first team opportunities for the younger players. I hope the club has that now. We have a player in CHO who has every right to be on the bench atm and play in the cups.
Sign in if you want to comment
The Loan Group - McEachran interview.
Page 1 of 2
posted on 19/8/18
He's doing well, but then Jose happened, very unlucky Josh.
posted on 19/8/18
comment by ism (U20893)
posted 1 minute ago
He's doing well, but then Jose happened, very unlucky Josh.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought so, he came in when the players that were turning in sterile, drab performances were unavailable and did well, what happened when those sterile, drab players became available again - they went straight back in the team.
The most telling thing for me though is how detached from the parent club they start to feel.
posted on 19/8/18
Having tasted first team football then going on loan must be devastating for the player. So I can understand his frustration. RLC seems to be in the same position as Josh at the moment.
posted on 19/8/18
What is the alternative to the loan system, If the player doesn't want to leave the parent club permanently?
They have a say in their future too and some (if not most) are comfortable with wages, lifestyle etc at Chelsea.
Which they wouldn't be getting if they were to moved on permanently.
Josh McEachran for example was supposedly on £50k - 60k a week, is it any wonder he stayed as long as he did when he got too much too soon. One of many.
Obviously some of them still habour to the dream of breaking into the Chelsea first-team, so refuse to leave permanently.
posted on 19/8/18
You can have the cake, but you can't always eat it !
posted on 19/8/18
*£50k - 60k a week at 18 years old
posted on 19/8/18
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 2 minutes ago
What is the alternative to the loan system, If the player doesn't want to leave the parent club permanently?
They have a say in their future too and some (if not most) are comfortable with wages, lifestyle etc at Chelsea.
Which they wouldn't be getting if they were to moved on permanently.
Josh McEachran for example was supposedly on £50k - 60k a week, is it any wonder he stayed as long as he did when he got too much too soon. One of many.
Obviously some of them still habour to the dream of breaking into the Chelsea first-team, so refuse to leave permanently.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well he didn't sound like someone who wanted to sit on 50k a week to me.
I think you do a dis-service to those youngsters who actually harbour an ambition to play for Chelsea.
The simple answer is if they're genuinely are not believed to be good enough, then sell them to a club consummate to their skill level.
posted on 19/8/18
comment by harlequinHebdo (U16981)
posted 7 minutes ago
You can have the cake, but you can't always eat it !
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never understood that saying!
Every cake I've ever had, I've promptly eaten!
posted on 19/8/18
That's not the simple answer BB when the player doesn't want to leave permanently, which was my point!
There is no simple solution.
posted on 19/8/18
The point is that Josh was enjoying his time at Chelsea playing regular football with the first team, then Jose sends him loaned, deemed him not good enough or Josh didn’t fit into Jose’s style of play
posted on 19/8/18
Too many variables as to why youngsters remain on the books.
posted on 19/8/18
Not that Josh helped himself whilst on loan, but the sudden change must have had an impact in his confidence
posted on 19/8/18
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 3 minutes ago
That's not the simple answer BB when the player doesn't want to leave permanently, which was my point!
There is no simple solution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At 18, they would probably still hoping to make it at Chelsea level so why would they want to leave without giving it a shot?
I don't think it's any secret though that when they get to 21/22 and still over looked for expensive and not very good signings that they want a more settled environment to progress.
Chalobah and Ake being recent examples!
There probably is no right or wrong answer to this, I think it's a generational thing. Coming from an era when be bought through players like Harris, Bonetti, Venables, Tambling, Bridges, Osgood and Hudson, I admittedly like to see young players come through the youth team and am happy if we give a number time to evolve.
Younger supporters though tend to want to see ready made players and rather other clubs do the hard work of developing youngsters.
All depends on your point of view I suppose.
posted on 19/8/18
There has to be a mutual agreement between club AND player, for the player to leave permanently.
That's what needs to be understood.
Not one-sided.
posted on 19/8/18
comment by ism (U20893)
posted 11 minutes ago
Not that Josh helped himself whilst on loan, but the sudden change must have had an impact in his confidence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally don't think there's any doubt about that. At 16/17 I thought he was the most naturally gifted player to come through the youth team since Ray Wilkins.
posted on 19/8/18
comment by Chelseamf™®© (U1677)
posted 3 minutes ago
There has to be a mutual agreement between club AND player, for the player to leave permanently.
That's what needs to be understood.
Not one-sided.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A club can release a player anytime they want.
posted on 19/8/18
Watched this morning and thought of you Brummie. Forgot Real M offered him a 5 year contract
posted on 19/8/18
comment by Bov (U6696)
posted 14 minutes ago
Watched this morning and thought of you Brummie. Forgot Real M offered him a 5 year contract
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Both Wilkins and Kenny Swain thought very highly of him as well Bov. I believe Butch wanted him promoted to the 1st team.
posted on 19/8/18
Our academy has come on a lot since then. I personally believe his brother George is better but Josh was considered our big hope while his bro's not even considered top 5.
posted on 19/8/18
comment by No-name (U21614)
posted 1 hour, 40 minutes ago
Our academy has come on a lot since then. I personally believe his brother George is better but Josh was considered our big hope while his bro's not even considered top 5.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure George is better, certainly doesn't have the natural talent of Josh. He's a bit more gritty in his style than his brother and will probably have to work harder at his game than Josh. Sort of like Kevin Keegan was - that's not a bad thing though!
posted on 19/8/18
I'm not so sure. I think loans should help to develop young talent by giving them opportunities on a regular basis that we can't. I'm of the opinion that players who are good enough will make it, and if they're not then they'll find your level elsewhere.
Kane, Beckham, etc - they went on loan and it must have helped them develop into the player they became
posted on 19/8/18
comment by jesus6662 (U8600)
posted 4 minutes ago
I'm not so sure. I think loans should help to develop young talent by giving them opportunities on a regular basis that we can't. I'm of the opinion that players who are good enough will make it, and if they're not then they'll find your level elsewhere.
Kane, Beckham, etc - they went on loan and it must have helped them develop into the player they became
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They didn't continually get sent out on loan to countless clubs, which is the problem!
posted on 19/8/18
The counter to that is Lukaku, KDB, Salah and Courtois. All players who went on loan and succeeded. I think it would be better to loan a player to the same club rather than a different one each season, however I can’t help believe that if a player is good enough he will make it. I don’t think a player can blame the loan system for his failure to make it.
posted on 19/8/18
comment by SWTN - Judas is number 1 (U7916)
posted 8 minutes ago
The counter to that is Lukaku, KDB, Salah and Courtois. All players who went on loan and succeeded. I think it would be better to loan a player to the same club rather than a different one each season, however I can’t help believe that if a player is good enough he will make it. I don’t think a player can blame the loan system for his failure to make it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Biggish but I have to disagree with that. The players you mention all had to leave Chelsea to succeed.
No matter how good they were, the policy at Chelsea recently has always been that an established player will always prevail over youth, no matter how poorly they perform. Hopefully that will change under Sarri.
In the case of KDB and Lukaku, they had every right to expect to be picked given the mediocrity of some of the players in front of them.
The argument for lengthy loans at one club has it's own particular down fall as well as we've seen with Courtois, as they become settled in the area they're loaned to. Christensen also was not keen on coming back from Monchengladback!
posted on 19/8/18
I didn’t realise you were talking about succeeding at Chelsea, I thought you just meant in general. We need a more tolerant philosophy to winning trophies if we are to allow more first team opportunities for the younger players. I hope the club has that now. We have a player in CHO who has every right to be on the bench atm and play in the cups.
Page 1 of 2