The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
This United problem is a hard one to diagnose. Same set of players finished 2nd the season before but this has been a dramatic nose dive. First issue is that Ole is not the right man for the job. If he gets 200m to spend that could be disastrous potentially if he gets sacked later next season.
Would not want to be Ed Woodward this summer.
I'm not against a couple of big signings as long as they are right for us. In fact, i'd say it will be essential.
Hopefully Ole, Phelan and possibly even SAF, to a little extent, are busy formulating a plan that can then be furthered by a DoF.
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané (U1108)
posted 1 minute ago
This United problem is a hard one to diagnose. Same set of players finished 2nd the season before but this has been a dramatic nose dive. First issue is that Ole is not the right man for the job. If he gets 200m to spend that could be disastrous potentially if he gets sacked later next season.
Would not want to be Ed Woodward this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight will probably look more kindly on Mourinho, he said it was his most impressive feat finishing second with that squad. I would be inclined to agree.
Agree Ole should be sacked if they want to progress, he's out of his depth and against some of the best in the business. United cannot afford to have a rookie leading them.
Should have got Conte in.
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 25 minutes ago
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that would never work.
At what point have the likes of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, tfm, garner and tuanzebe shown they are ready and good enough?
By all means get rid if the shiiiite but replacing them with a bunch of kids who aren't ready is no better
comment by Nostraduncus (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 25 minutes ago
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that would never work.
At what point have the likes of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, tfm, garner and tuanzebe shown they are ready and good enough?
By all means get rid if the shiiiite but replacing them with a bunch of kids who aren't ready is no better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is more economical though. Instead of not competing with average expensive flops we can not compete with our own young lads and let them develop.
People who want Dybala, Bale and James Rodriguez simply don't get it and never will. How much more money are we going to waste until we realize that it's not the transfer budget that is the issue. It's the men running the club (into the ground)
comment by Nostraduncus (U11713)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 25 minutes ago
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that would never work.
At what point have the likes of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, tfm, garner and tuanzebe shown they are ready and good enough?
By all means get rid if the shiiiite but replacing them with a bunch of kids who aren't ready is no better
===================
I'm talking about making them part of the first team squad on a regular basis, not drafting them straight into the first 11 every week and hoping they do OK. They need to be managed, but they need to be getting minutes.
Tuanzebe has been excellent at Villa and always very good in his first team cameos for us. We've seen TFM in our first team do pretty well on most occasions and has a decent amount of PL experience on some admittedly mixed loan spells. Those two are probably safe bets to bring into the squad - certainly one of them at least.
The others are a little more unknown, but Greenwood was fantastic yesterday and he'd shown a couple of glimpses in his brief cameos previously. He looks a real gem. Gomes is clearly good enough technically - physically he's probably not there yet. Chong stills looks raw but showed a lot more against Huddersfield.
But the fact of the matter is the squad needs such a large overhaul that it can't be done in one window and with signings alone.
The other thing I would say... I've liked what I've seen of the characters of some of the young players. We currently have a first team squad full of players that many don't like both for their character and ability.
Shouldn't buy more than 1 player north of 25.
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
This United problem is a hard one to diagnose. Same set of players finished 2nd the season before but this has been a dramatic nose dive. First issue is that Ole is not the right man for the job. If he gets 200m to spend that could be disastrous potentially if he gets sacked later next season.
Would not want to be Ed Woodward this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How on earth do Ole, Phelan and Murtough start in recommending transfer targets to Woodward?
If Ole reckons we need to be playing 'X' brand of football, he could think about a group of players that might be serve us well and recommend those to Ed.
Then what happens if Ole is sacked in 12 months' time?
We've still got players from LVG and Mourinho's eras, as well as Ole's few new signings in a (still) misshapen and incoherent squad, and history tells us there's a very good chance that Ed and the board go out and appoint a manager that wants to play a completely different brand of football to the previous one again.
Do Ole have to second guess what Ed might so next? There's no point in buying patient, possession-loving lock-pickers and trying to build a squad that suits an expansive 4-3-3 if Ed fancies a punt on Simeone in summer 2020, for example.
That's the job I really wouldn't want.
*Does Ole have to second guess what Ed might do next?
I do think (hope) that Ole's signing was finally a signal that the club understand we need to go back to the "utd way" (as much as I hate that term).
What I do hope that means is that everyone at the club is ready for a long term approach that will try to entertain the fans and play attacking football. They must surely be seeing that a long term, carefully planned approach is paying off at pool, city and spurs, and further afield like at Ajax.
Whether it is too big a task for Ole, I believe that his ideas and methodology will ultimately fit the direction we will take when a DoF arrives.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 2 minutes ago
I do think (hope) that Ole's signing was finally a signal that the club understand we need to go back to the "utd way" (as much as I hate that term).
What I do hope that means is that everyone at the club is ready for a long term approach that will try to entertain the fans and play attacking football. They must surely be seeing that a long term, carefully planned approach is paying off at pool, city and spurs, and further afield like at Ajax.
Whether it is too big a task for Ole, I believe that his ideas and methodology will ultimately fit the direction we will take when a DoF arrives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I'm just on a bit of a downer Ji, but I see Ole's initial appointment as somewhere between "who might be available, we haven't planned for this!" and "what kind of appointment might buy us a bit of credit with the fans".
I think he's then probably ended up with the permanent role because he won a lot of games in a row.
What I am saying though is that even if he turns out to not be the right man... I am confident that the style he wants to implement (pressing, attacking, on the front foot) will match that of the DoF and the club itself. It's a no brainer as it's the style currently being used by the three best teams in England.
The quick fixes have all failed, I think by the end of this summer we will finally have a DoF and manager on the same page.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 12 minutes ago
What I am saying though is that even if he turns out to not be the right man... I am confident that the style he wants to implement (pressing, attacking, on the front foot) will match that of the DoF and the club itself. It's a no brainer as it's the style currently being used by the three best teams in England.
The quick fixes have all failed, I think by the end of this summer we will finally have a DoF and manager on the same page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough of a no-brainer for Ed and the rest of the board?
Would you be that surprised if Simeone or Conte were in charge by next summer?
I think it would be silly to go into next season with Ole at the wheel.
It's a massive gamble, one which paid off short term but he looks clueless how to fix it now it's gone wrong.
Should have went for Conte.
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 25 minutes ago
I think it would be silly to go into next season with Ole at the wheel.
It's a massive gamble, one which paid off short term but he looks clueless how to fix it now it's gone wrong.
Should have went for Conte.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me you're on the wind up.
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 12 minutes ago
What I am saying though is that even if he turns out to not be the right man... I am confident that the style he wants to implement (pressing, attacking, on the front foot) will match that of the DoF and the club itself. It's a no brainer as it's the style currently being used by the three best teams in England.
The quick fixes have all failed, I think by the end of this summer we will finally have a DoF and manager on the same page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough of a no-brainer for Ed and the rest of the board?
Would you be that surprised if Simeone or Conte were in charge by next summer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would. I think they are too shrewd, business wise, to know that this can't go on forever without affecting the bottom line.
They, understandably, tried a few different types of quick fixes and all failed miserably, I think big changes will happen this summer that will make it hard to the likes of Simeone or Conte to get the job.
Maybe i'm being naive, time will tell.
I would. I think they are too shrewd, business wise, to know that this can't go on forever without affecting the bottom line.
..................
There is evidence of this. A week before Jose was fired I said that sooner rather than later the Glazers will force Ed to take action.
Now they need to make sure Ed is removed from all football related decisions.
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
I do think (hope) that Ole's signing was finally a signal that the club understand we need to go back to the "utd way" (as much as I hate that term).
What I do hope that means is that everyone at the club is ready for a long term approach that will try to entertain the fans and play attacking football. They must surely be seeing that a long term, carefully planned approach is paying off at pool, city and spurs, and further afield like at Ajax.
Whether it is too big a task for Ole, I believe that his ideas and methodology will ultimately fit the direction we will take when a DoF arrives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on.
Would love to see a board meeting at the club. You can guarantee that the football element is limited to current position in comps and it's financial impact.
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Simply not good enough...
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posted on 13/5/19
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
posted on 13/5/19
This United problem is a hard one to diagnose. Same set of players finished 2nd the season before but this has been a dramatic nose dive. First issue is that Ole is not the right man for the job. If he gets 200m to spend that could be disastrous potentially if he gets sacked later next season.
Would not want to be Ed Woodward this summer.
posted on 13/5/19
I'm not against a couple of big signings as long as they are right for us. In fact, i'd say it will be essential.
Hopefully Ole, Phelan and possibly even SAF, to a little extent, are busy formulating a plan that can then be furthered by a DoF.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané (U1108)
posted 1 minute ago
This United problem is a hard one to diagnose. Same set of players finished 2nd the season before but this has been a dramatic nose dive. First issue is that Ole is not the right man for the job. If he gets 200m to spend that could be disastrous potentially if he gets sacked later next season.
Would not want to be Ed Woodward this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hindsight will probably look more kindly on Mourinho, he said it was his most impressive feat finishing second with that squad. I would be inclined to agree.
Agree Ole should be sacked if they want to progress, he's out of his depth and against some of the best in the business. United cannot afford to have a rookie leading them.
Should have got Conte in.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 25 minutes ago
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that would never work.
At what point have the likes of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, tfm, garner and tuanzebe shown they are ready and good enough?
By all means get rid if the shiiiite but replacing them with a bunch of kids who aren't ready is no better
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Nostraduncus (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 25 minutes ago
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that would never work.
At what point have the likes of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, tfm, garner and tuanzebe shown they are ready and good enough?
By all means get rid if the shiiiite but replacing them with a bunch of kids who aren't ready is no better
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is more economical though. Instead of not competing with average expensive flops we can not compete with our own young lads and let them develop.
People who want Dybala, Bale and James Rodriguez simply don't get it and never will. How much more money are we going to waste until we realize that it's not the transfer budget that is the issue. It's the men running the club (into the ground)
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Nostraduncus (U11713)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 25 minutes ago
The squad is packed to the rafters with very, very average players.
Before a single signing is made, we need to be bold and bring Greenwood, Gomes, Chong & Tuanzebe in the first team squad. Possibly one or two others like Fosu-Mensah & Garner.
What I'd like to see if a large clear out of the the current playing staff, integration of young academy prospects and some shrewd signings in key areas. League position isn't important, but progress in terms of the personnel and the football.
Whether or not the appropriate footballing structures will be put in place, and whether or not Ole will be given time to see through these early transformations is another matter entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And that would never work.
At what point have the likes of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, tfm, garner and tuanzebe shown they are ready and good enough?
By all means get rid if the shiiiite but replacing them with a bunch of kids who aren't ready is no better
===================
I'm talking about making them part of the first team squad on a regular basis, not drafting them straight into the first 11 every week and hoping they do OK. They need to be managed, but they need to be getting minutes.
Tuanzebe has been excellent at Villa and always very good in his first team cameos for us. We've seen TFM in our first team do pretty well on most occasions and has a decent amount of PL experience on some admittedly mixed loan spells. Those two are probably safe bets to bring into the squad - certainly one of them at least.
The others are a little more unknown, but Greenwood was fantastic yesterday and he'd shown a couple of glimpses in his brief cameos previously. He looks a real gem. Gomes is clearly good enough technically - physically he's probably not there yet. Chong stills looks raw but showed a lot more against Huddersfield.
But the fact of the matter is the squad needs such a large overhaul that it can't be done in one window and with signings alone.
The other thing I would say... I've liked what I've seen of the characters of some of the young players. We currently have a first team squad full of players that many don't like both for their character and ability.
posted on 13/5/19
Shouldn't buy more than 1 player north of 25.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by (kash) I'm the Mané (U1108)
posted 1 hour, 17 minutes ago
This United problem is a hard one to diagnose. Same set of players finished 2nd the season before but this has been a dramatic nose dive. First issue is that Ole is not the right man for the job. If he gets 200m to spend that could be disastrous potentially if he gets sacked later next season.
Would not want to be Ed Woodward this summer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How on earth do Ole, Phelan and Murtough start in recommending transfer targets to Woodward?
If Ole reckons we need to be playing 'X' brand of football, he could think about a group of players that might be serve us well and recommend those to Ed.
Then what happens if Ole is sacked in 12 months' time?
We've still got players from LVG and Mourinho's eras, as well as Ole's few new signings in a (still) misshapen and incoherent squad, and history tells us there's a very good chance that Ed and the board go out and appoint a manager that wants to play a completely different brand of football to the previous one again.
Do Ole have to second guess what Ed might so next? There's no point in buying patient, possession-loving lock-pickers and trying to build a squad that suits an expansive 4-3-3 if Ed fancies a punt on Simeone in summer 2020, for example.
That's the job I really wouldn't want.
posted on 13/5/19
*Does Ole have to second guess what Ed might do next?
posted on 13/5/19
I do think (hope) that Ole's signing was finally a signal that the club understand we need to go back to the "utd way" (as much as I hate that term).
What I do hope that means is that everyone at the club is ready for a long term approach that will try to entertain the fans and play attacking football. They must surely be seeing that a long term, carefully planned approach is paying off at pool, city and spurs, and further afield like at Ajax.
Whether it is too big a task for Ole, I believe that his ideas and methodology will ultimately fit the direction we will take when a DoF arrives.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 2 minutes ago
I do think (hope) that Ole's signing was finally a signal that the club understand we need to go back to the "utd way" (as much as I hate that term).
What I do hope that means is that everyone at the club is ready for a long term approach that will try to entertain the fans and play attacking football. They must surely be seeing that a long term, carefully planned approach is paying off at pool, city and spurs, and further afield like at Ajax.
Whether it is too big a task for Ole, I believe that his ideas and methodology will ultimately fit the direction we will take when a DoF arrives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I'm just on a bit of a downer Ji, but I see Ole's initial appointment as somewhere between "who might be available, we haven't planned for this!" and "what kind of appointment might buy us a bit of credit with the fans".
I think he's then probably ended up with the permanent role because he won a lot of games in a row.
posted on 13/5/19
What I am saying though is that even if he turns out to not be the right man... I am confident that the style he wants to implement (pressing, attacking, on the front foot) will match that of the DoF and the club itself. It's a no brainer as it's the style currently being used by the three best teams in England.
The quick fixes have all failed, I think by the end of this summer we will finally have a DoF and manager on the same page.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 12 minutes ago
What I am saying though is that even if he turns out to not be the right man... I am confident that the style he wants to implement (pressing, attacking, on the front foot) will match that of the DoF and the club itself. It's a no brainer as it's the style currently being used by the three best teams in England.
The quick fixes have all failed, I think by the end of this summer we will finally have a DoF and manager on the same page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough of a no-brainer for Ed and the rest of the board?
Would you be that surprised if Simeone or Conte were in charge by next summer?
posted on 13/5/19
I think it would be silly to go into next season with Ole at the wheel.
It's a massive gamble, one which paid off short term but he looks clueless how to fix it now it's gone wrong.
Should have went for Conte.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 25 minutes ago
I think it would be silly to go into next season with Ole at the wheel.
It's a massive gamble, one which paid off short term but he looks clueless how to fix it now it's gone wrong.
Should have went for Conte.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me you're on the wind up.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by rosso is facking happy (U17054)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 12 minutes ago
What I am saying though is that even if he turns out to not be the right man... I am confident that the style he wants to implement (pressing, attacking, on the front foot) will match that of the DoF and the club itself. It's a no brainer as it's the style currently being used by the three best teams in England.
The quick fixes have all failed, I think by the end of this summer we will finally have a DoF and manager on the same page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough of a no-brainer for Ed and the rest of the board?
Would you be that surprised if Simeone or Conte were in charge by next summer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would. I think they are too shrewd, business wise, to know that this can't go on forever without affecting the bottom line.
They, understandably, tried a few different types of quick fixes and all failed miserably, I think big changes will happen this summer that will make it hard to the likes of Simeone or Conte to get the job.
Maybe i'm being naive, time will tell.
posted on 13/5/19
I would. I think they are too shrewd, business wise, to know that this can't go on forever without affecting the bottom line.
..................
There is evidence of this. A week before Jose was fired I said that sooner rather than later the Glazers will force Ed to take action.
Now they need to make sure Ed is removed from all football related decisions.
posted on 13/5/19
comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - Ole's joy squids (U2958)
posted 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
I do think (hope) that Ole's signing was finally a signal that the club understand we need to go back to the "utd way" (as much as I hate that term).
What I do hope that means is that everyone at the club is ready for a long term approach that will try to entertain the fans and play attacking football. They must surely be seeing that a long term, carefully planned approach is paying off at pool, city and spurs, and further afield like at Ajax.
Whether it is too big a task for Ole, I believe that his ideas and methodology will ultimately fit the direction we will take when a DoF arrives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spot on.
Would love to see a board meeting at the club. You can guarantee that the football element is limited to current position in comps and it's financial impact.
Page 1 of 1