Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Article I otherwise known as the pure scunnered wi tories clause
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 6 minutes ago
Article I of the 1945 Charter of the United Nations, signed by the UK and its reads, "All peoples have the right to self-determination".
It can be delayed by WM under Article 30, but as members of the UN, its cannot be denied.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting.
Though if the timeframe for delay isn't specified we remain in limbo needing permission from a Tory.
How have Spain got around that?
All the shipbuilding Scotland was promised...
...all going to foreign yards.
Shockarooney!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
We will make mistakes as an Independent country, but at least they will be our mistakes, not some shambles forced on us time and time again.
----
Is this your argument for Brexit?
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 19 minutes ago
Fash, Catalonia is not recognised by the UN as a country, Scotland is.
Its as cut and dry as that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely they are included in All peoples though?
So how long can Westminster legally delay Indy ref 2?
That is the crux of the matter because they won't let us do it before then.
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
Lex, I see your point but at the same time I think it's a bit deeper than that for me. I see myself as Scottish, but at the same time (when it suits me) I describe myself as British from time to time.
I personally consider Scotland as part of a Union (which we are). Much like the UK was part of the EU. Therefore if we are part of a Union, and that Union no longer works for us, nor does it represent us or give us the best chance of prosperity, then why should we remain in that Union?
I believe the Union has been a fantastic thing for Scotland in many ways - yes we've got our hands very dirty as part of the empire, but economically it was tremendous for us. However over the last 40 years it has stopped working for us. We are becoming poorer - in every sense - because the decision making for the UK since the Thatcher area has concentrated on what is best for the south east of England. It has been detrimental to Scotland and her interests.
The Union no longer functions. It's time to go and make our own way, a different way, a better way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivan for FM of Scotland.
Another thing that annoys me is people saying would you be happy with the SNP in charge.
Post independence the SNP would likely not exist. It would split into right & left parties.
There would also be an immediate election where we could for the very first time vote for our own government and for those votes to decide the result. Choose any party you want (labour, Tory, farage, brand new parties without historical baggage or agenda's) rip the established party system apart and vote for real people. Not a political class that have become detached from reality and no longer represent anyone.
In every general election bar one (not in my lifetime) you could have burned every Scottish vote and it would not have changed the outcome. That for me trump's every no or yes argument. I want a government my country has chosen for the 1st time in our lives.
comment by NNH (U10730)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
Lex, I see your point but at the same time I think it's a bit deeper than that for me. I see myself as Scottish, but at the same time (when it suits me) I describe myself as British from time to time.
I personally consider Scotland as part of a Union (which we are). Much like the UK was part of the EU. Therefore if we are part of a Union, and that Union no longer works for us, nor does it represent us or give us the best chance of prosperity, then why should we remain in that Union?
I believe the Union has been a fantastic thing for Scotland in many ways - yes we've got our hands very dirty as part of the empire, but economically it was tremendous for us. However over the last 40 years it has stopped working for us. We are becoming poorer - in every sense - because the decision making for the UK since the Thatcher area has concentrated on what is best for the south east of England. It has been detrimental to Scotland and her interests.
The Union no longer functions. It's time to go and make our own way, a different way, a better way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivan for FM of Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional to this we would still be part of the commonwealth if we chose to and could negotiate deals through that agreement.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
There's not a chance in hell i'd vote for the SNP.
I remain unconvinced by Indy2 but the Brexit shambles has made it very, very interesting.
comment by NNH (U10730)
posted 2 minutes ago
There's not a chance in hell i'd vote for the SNP.
I remain unconvinced by Indy2 but the Brexit shambles has made it very, very interesting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't you vote SNP and use it as the vehicle to gain independence?
This 'union' can bite ma boaby.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
aye bit if ye vote fur indipendince, rat means Sturgeon wull be ra queen eh Scotland furreva, n' nat.
N theyd be nae mair orange flags n nat.
comment by Zico♡ (U21900)
posted 11 minutes ago
aye bit if ye vote fur indipendince, rat means Sturgeon wull be ra queen eh Scotland furreva, n' nat.
N theyd be nae mair orange flags n nat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guess I'm still a no then
comment by rats juice ma brendin awae tae f@ck (U6393)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by NNH (U10730)
posted 2 minutes ago
There's not a chance in hell i'd vote for the SNP.
I remain unconvinced by Indy2 but the Brexit shambles has made it very, very interesting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't you vote SNP and use it as the vehicle to gain independence?
This 'union' can bite ma boaby.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have clarified, i mean i wouldn't vote for SNP after independence.
Don't think many would
I'd love us to be an independent country but i'm just not sure everything is in place for it to happen within the next 5-10 years sadly
comment by Miller (U9310)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Zico♡ (U21900)
posted 11 minutes ago
aye bit if ye vote fur indipendince, rat means Sturgeon wull be ra queen eh Scotland furreva, n' nat.
N theyd be nae mair orange flags n nat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guess I'm still a no then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 32 minutes ago
Fash, peoples defined as in according to the UN are 'peoples who fall into a category of non-autonomus region' Scotland is recognised as that Catalonia is not.
Since the beginning of decolonization after World War II, the UN has considered “non-autonomous” those territories that are geographically separate and distinct ethnically and culturally from the country, which is administrating them.
The territories above have a right to self-determination under International law should there be a appetite for it. The UK agreed to this when they joined the UN.
They cannot deny Scotland the right to Independence on one hand and abide by UN International law on the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we could force them to do so, why wouldn't we be using that mechanism now as she has a mandate.
Seems like there is much more than meets they eye. I would imagine Westminster could drag the process out both before during and after any court battle.
Then we would need the UN to rule against the UK, which i would imagine doesn't happen often.
Then we would need the UK to accept the decision and not do a USA or China of just paying lip service.
I suspect in reality we are entirely at the mercy of Westminster whether we like it or not.
We were part of the Empire at it’s zenith. We had no industry and were an almost 100% agrarian society, and we still went it alone.
Sign in if you want to comment
Are you still No..?
Page 5 of 6
6
posted on 5/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/6/19
Article I otherwise known as the pure scunnered wi tories clause
posted on 5/6/19
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 6 minutes ago
Article I of the 1945 Charter of the United Nations, signed by the UK and its reads, "All peoples have the right to self-determination".
It can be delayed by WM under Article 30, but as members of the UN, its cannot be denied.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting.
Though if the timeframe for delay isn't specified we remain in limbo needing permission from a Tory.
posted on 5/6/19
How have Spain got around that?
posted on 5/6/19
All the shipbuilding Scotland was promised...
...all going to foreign yards.
Shockarooney!
posted on 5/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/6/19
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 1 hour, 43 minutes ago
We will make mistakes as an Independent country, but at least they will be our mistakes, not some shambles forced on us time and time again.
----
Is this your argument for Brexit?
posted on 5/6/19
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 19 minutes ago
Fash, Catalonia is not recognised by the UN as a country, Scotland is.
Its as cut and dry as that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely they are included in All peoples though?
posted on 5/6/19
So how long can Westminster legally delay Indy ref 2?
That is the crux of the matter because they won't let us do it before then.
posted on 5/6/19
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
Lex, I see your point but at the same time I think it's a bit deeper than that for me. I see myself as Scottish, but at the same time (when it suits me) I describe myself as British from time to time.
I personally consider Scotland as part of a Union (which we are). Much like the UK was part of the EU. Therefore if we are part of a Union, and that Union no longer works for us, nor does it represent us or give us the best chance of prosperity, then why should we remain in that Union?
I believe the Union has been a fantastic thing for Scotland in many ways - yes we've got our hands very dirty as part of the empire, but economically it was tremendous for us. However over the last 40 years it has stopped working for us. We are becoming poorer - in every sense - because the decision making for the UK since the Thatcher area has concentrated on what is best for the south east of England. It has been detrimental to Scotland and her interests.
The Union no longer functions. It's time to go and make our own way, a different way, a better way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivan for FM of Scotland.
posted on 5/6/19
Another thing that annoys me is people saying would you be happy with the SNP in charge.
Post independence the SNP would likely not exist. It would split into right & left parties.
There would also be an immediate election where we could for the very first time vote for our own government and for those votes to decide the result. Choose any party you want (labour, Tory, farage, brand new parties without historical baggage or agenda's) rip the established party system apart and vote for real people. Not a political class that have become detached from reality and no longer represent anyone.
In every general election bar one (not in my lifetime) you could have burned every Scottish vote and it would not have changed the outcome. That for me trump's every no or yes argument. I want a government my country has chosen for the 1st time in our lives.
posted on 5/6/19
comment by NNH (U10730)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by IvanGolacIsMagic (U5291)
posted 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
Lex, I see your point but at the same time I think it's a bit deeper than that for me. I see myself as Scottish, but at the same time (when it suits me) I describe myself as British from time to time.
I personally consider Scotland as part of a Union (which we are). Much like the UK was part of the EU. Therefore if we are part of a Union, and that Union no longer works for us, nor does it represent us or give us the best chance of prosperity, then why should we remain in that Union?
I believe the Union has been a fantastic thing for Scotland in many ways - yes we've got our hands very dirty as part of the empire, but economically it was tremendous for us. However over the last 40 years it has stopped working for us. We are becoming poorer - in every sense - because the decision making for the UK since the Thatcher area has concentrated on what is best for the south east of England. It has been detrimental to Scotland and her interests.
The Union no longer functions. It's time to go and make our own way, a different way, a better way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ivan for FM of Scotland.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional to this we would still be part of the commonwealth if we chose to and could negotiate deals through that agreement.
posted on 5/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/6/19
There's not a chance in hell i'd vote for the SNP.
I remain unconvinced by Indy2 but the Brexit shambles has made it very, very interesting.
posted on 5/6/19
comment by NNH (U10730)
posted 2 minutes ago
There's not a chance in hell i'd vote for the SNP.
I remain unconvinced by Indy2 but the Brexit shambles has made it very, very interesting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't you vote SNP and use it as the vehicle to gain independence?
This 'union' can bite ma boaby.
posted on 5/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 5/6/19
aye bit if ye vote fur indipendince, rat means Sturgeon wull be ra queen eh Scotland furreva, n' nat.
N theyd be nae mair orange flags n nat.
posted on 5/6/19
comment by Zico♡ (U21900)
posted 11 minutes ago
aye bit if ye vote fur indipendince, rat means Sturgeon wull be ra queen eh Scotland furreva, n' nat.
N theyd be nae mair orange flags n nat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guess I'm still a no then
posted on 5/6/19
comment by rats juice ma brendin awae tae f@ck (U6393)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by NNH (U10730)
posted 2 minutes ago
There's not a chance in hell i'd vote for the SNP.
I remain unconvinced by Indy2 but the Brexit shambles has made it very, very interesting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't you vote SNP and use it as the vehicle to gain independence?
This 'union' can bite ma boaby.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I should have clarified, i mean i wouldn't vote for SNP after independence.
posted on 5/6/19
Aaaah. Neither would I
posted on 5/6/19
Don't think many would
I'd love us to be an independent country but i'm just not sure everything is in place for it to happen within the next 5-10 years sadly
posted on 5/6/19
comment by Miller (U9310)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Zico♡ (U21900)
posted 11 minutes ago
aye bit if ye vote fur indipendince, rat means Sturgeon wull be ra queen eh Scotland furreva, n' nat.
N theyd be nae mair orange flags n nat.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guess I'm still a no then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 5/6/19
comment by lexballielegend (U8325)
posted 32 minutes ago
Fash, peoples defined as in according to the UN are 'peoples who fall into a category of non-autonomus region' Scotland is recognised as that Catalonia is not.
Since the beginning of decolonization after World War II, the UN has considered “non-autonomous” those territories that are geographically separate and distinct ethnically and culturally from the country, which is administrating them.
The territories above have a right to self-determination under International law should there be a appetite for it. The UK agreed to this when they joined the UN.
They cannot deny Scotland the right to Independence on one hand and abide by UN International law on the other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If we could force them to do so, why wouldn't we be using that mechanism now as she has a mandate.
Seems like there is much more than meets they eye. I would imagine Westminster could drag the process out both before during and after any court battle.
Then we would need the UN to rule against the UK, which i would imagine doesn't happen often.
Then we would need the UK to accept the decision and not do a USA or China of just paying lip service.
I suspect in reality we are entirely at the mercy of Westminster whether we like it or not.
posted on 5/6/19
We were part of the Empire at it’s zenith. We had no industry and were an almost 100% agrarian society, and we still went it alone.
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