comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 11 minutes ago
You can’t have it both ways Metro. Either you have a free flowing game full of inaccuracies and injustices - totally reliant on a referee to see everything in a fast paced modern game - or you go for getting MOST of the big calls spot on, but you sacrifice the free flowing element of the game.
Personally I don’t want to go back to the feeling of being robbed over awful refereeing decisions. Yes I disagree with the new handball law - but by the letter of the law last nights decision was right. Much as it pains me to say it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Black Starr - and I’d choose the former.
The beautiful game survived over 100 years without it.
Some of the games most infamous moments come from bad calls or uncertainties.
Take the hand of God, Luis Garcia’s goal against Chelsea in 05 or the World Cup goal in 66 being behind the line etc.
Iconic football moments all being swallowed up by VAR. No thanks. Give me the fallible drama over the infallible science any day.
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Another rant about VAR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Just a discussion.
This wasn't VAR's fault for crying out loud.. Its the silly rule
Personally I think the rules need adapting for VAR, most obviously handball and offside. Both rules have been tweaked and adjusted so often over the years and when taken in their current variation and with VAR looking at them, you end up with decisions that just don’t feel right, like Jesus’ goal yesterday.
Offside is a prime example. The intent of the original law was to prevent attackers from goal hanging. At different points over the years assistant referees were given directives such as ‘clear daylight’ and ‘advantage with the attacker’. The current variation, being looked at with VAR is ruling out goals for millimetres, which doesn’t sit quite right with the original intent of the law.
And I do think there is a risk of losing that spontaneous celebration after goal, if in the back of people’s minds is worry VAR might rule it out. Gary Neville made the point yesterday about the fact that he regretted going big on his commentary of what he thought was the winning goal because of what happened afterwards. And if you don’t have that spontaneity, you lose an awful lot from the enjoyment of the game.
I don’t dislike VAR as a concept and maybe it’s just getting used to the biggest change in football since the back pass rule, but there are definite changes to be made to integrate the system effectively.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 11 minutes ago
You can’t have it both ways Metro. Either you have a free flowing game full of inaccuracies and injustices - totally reliant on a referee to see everything in a fast paced modern game - or you go for getting MOST of the big calls spot on, but you sacrifice the free flowing element of the game.
Personally I don’t want to go back to the feeling of being robbed over awful refereeing decisions. Yes I disagree with the new handball law - but by the letter of the law last nights decision was right. Much as it pains me to say it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Black Starr - and I’d choose the former.
The beautiful game survived over 100 years without it.
Some of the games most infamous moments come from bad calls or uncertainties.
Take the hand of God, Luis Garcia’s goal against Chelsea in 05 or the World Cup goal in 66 being behind the line etc.
Iconic football moments all being swallowed up by VAR. No thanks. Give me the fallible drama over the infallible science any day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see I’m in the other camp. The hand of God is an example of everything that spoils the beautiful game. Cheating or just plain bad decision making has Icost teams world cups, relegations, promotions - there’s just too much at stake to let our game be at the mercy of referees who often can’t see crucial incidents
I don’t want to go back there personally - what I would prefer is a sensible use of the technology, backed by laws that work for the game. The biggest problem i see are the new laws coming into the game that are threatening it
comment by 1maneontherun (U4291)
posted 5 minutes ago
This wasn't VAR's fault for crying out loud.. Its the silly rule
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think everyone accepts that.
But it’s more about the game itself being sanitised to the point of sacrificing the drama and the flow of the game.
So you lose because of a borderline offside call - big deal. We loved the game - even with the mistakes.
I think everybody accepts there are still some issues despite correct decisions increasing but these will be improved upon and we may even see some more clarity to the laws to help us understand the decisions and take away the subjectively.
Lose to an offside decision big deal, so what?! It's a major injustice and can change a clubs whole season. This can't happen.
Yeah I see no sacrifice of drama or flow of the game. The drama has probably increased, not that o see that as a good thing. Luckily I believe when people get used to VAR, whilst there will still be debate as there are still subjective decisions, the drama will reduce.
comment by JohnTerrysHardTackle - #Lampard211 (U1634)
posted 5 minutes ago
Personally I think the rules need adapting for VAR, most obviously handball and offside. Both rules have been tweaked and adjusted so often over the years and when taken in their current variation and with VAR looking at them, you end up with decisions that just don’t feel right, like Jesus’ goal yesterday.
Offside is a prime example. The intent of the original law was to prevent attackers from goal hanging. At different points over the years assistant referees were given directives such as ‘clear daylight’ and ‘advantage with the attacker’. The current variation, being looked at with VAR is ruling out goals for millimetres, which doesn’t sit quite right with the original intent of the law.
And I do think there is a risk of losing that spontaneous celebration after goal, if in the back of people’s minds is worry VAR might rule it out. Gary Neville made the point yesterday about the fact that he regretted going big on his commentary of what he thought was the winning goal because of what happened afterwards. And if you don’t have that spontaneity, you lose an awful lot from the enjoyment of the game.
I don’t dislike VAR as a concept and maybe it’s just getting used to the biggest change in football since the back pass rule, but there are definite changes to be made to integrate the system effectively.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a feeling that the longer the season goes on, the more people will dislike VAR for precisely the reasons you have stated.
It defeats the idea of the original intent of the offside law and the goal celebrations will undoubtedly be more conservative. Some people think it’s ludicrous that people will celebrate goals with more caution but after just 2 weeks into the season, we’re already seeing people speak openly about this very reservation - Gary Neville being the obvious example.
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lose to an offside decision big deal, so what?! It's a major injustice and can change a clubs whole season. This can't happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you think the game survived and became so adored if as you say, it was blighted by injustice?
If a team happens to get relegated by a dodgy call, I think it’s a bit of a cop out. The reality is that they’ve been poor over 38 games.
Swings and roundabouts. You win some, you lose some but the table will roughly place you in the spot you deserve.
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lose to an offside decision big deal, so what?! It's a major injustice and can change a clubs whole season. This can't happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you think the game survived and became so adored if as you say, it was blighted by injustice?
If a team happens to get relegated by a dodgy call, I think it’s a bit of a cop out. The reality is that they’ve been poor over 38 games.
Swings and roundabouts. You win some, you lose some but the table will roughly place you in the spot you deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because despite the injustice we still loved the game. You win some you lose some is absolute nonsense. Anybody who believes that will of course see VAR as unnecessary. However if you watched the games the season before last when we finished fourth youd have seen it wasnt true as we were continuously on the end of incorrect decisions. I'm sure that has been the case for other clubs too and has cost them titles or relegation.
No real need have officials on the pitch anymore
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
VAR should be used for off the ball incidents, deliberate cheating i.e handball/diving, red card decisions. NOT for marginal offsides NOT because the ball brushed a players arm pit hair en route to goal.
VAR is fine, its the people in charge of it that need sorting out.
comment by Shaun M - Ran out of usernames (U9955)
posted 19 minutes ago
VAR should be used for off the ball incidents, deliberate cheating i.e handball/diving, red card decisions. NOT for marginal offsides NOT because the ball brushed a players arm pit hair en route to goal.
VAR is fine, its the people in charge of it that need sorting out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
Last season Liverpool had a goal ruled out because it came off an attackers arm accidentally. We had people saying that it's fair as you can't score with your arm. Now the law has been clarified and tweaked and you have VAR to confirm it and still people complain about it. Your issue is not with VAR, it's with the laws.
It's not about the people in charge of it either. You want the laws changed so no matter what they do, you'll be complaining about it.
VAR absolutely should be used for ALL offside decisions considering they're absolute and not subjective.
What about the foul on Rodri in the penalty area yesterday?
The fans saw it, the players appealed for it, MOTD picked up on it yet the people monitoring VAR ignored it.
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 55 minutes ago
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the single biggest change in 30 years, it’s obviously going to be talking point. It’s a divisive topic but it’s weird how many fans in favour of VAR won’t even entertain a debate over it whatsoever.
I’m broadly in favour of VAR but there are definitely issues with it and it’s implementation.
comment by JohnTerrysHardTackle - #Lampard211 (U1634)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 55 minutes ago
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the single biggest change in 30 years, it’s obviously going to be talking point. It’s a divisive topic but it’s weird how many fans in favour of VAR won’t even entertain a debate over it whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. They also think someone who disagrees is ‘whining’.
Nothing wrong with a sensible debate on the biggest change in the game for decades.
I could only be in favour of it if it was consistent which it obviously isn’t at the moment
Debates have to make sense to be entertained. Its only been two match days in the league. In that link in the ACL above it shows VAR can stop cheating quite effectively.
If it wasn't for VAR, Esperance would have won and we wouldn't have a clue what happened. Leaves you wondering how many injustices have gone unknown over the years.
Personally I think its better to reserve judgment until the end of the season or maybe even two seasons.
No one can make a good reading of the "biggest change in 30 years" on the back of two games.
You might not agree with it but the debate over the way that VAR has been implemented definitely makes sense.
I agree that it is too early to have a definitive answer on VAR but we can certainly ask questions of it now, we’ve had a World Cup with it, a season of Champions League football to look at it as well so it’s not just 2 games.
comment by JohnTerrysHardTackle - #Lampard211 (U1634)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 55 minutes ago
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the single biggest change in 30 years, it’s obviously going to be talking point. It’s a divisive topic but it’s weird how many fans in favour of VAR won’t even entertain a debate over it whatsoever.
I’m broadly in favour of VAR but there are definitely issues with it and it’s implementation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
sure. talking yes. we talked it, We endlessly trialled it. we introduced it.
imo this endless incessant whining is a symptom of the internet age.
let's all.move on with our.lives.
It needs a season or two to bed in and some rule changes, the most obvious being handball Law12, then I expect the luddites to get used to it. Good refereeing decisions are the right refereeing decisions. VAR helps the officials to get more right which is great.
Sign in if you want to comment
VAR IS The Issue
Page 2 of 8
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posted on 18/8/19
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 11 minutes ago
You can’t have it both ways Metro. Either you have a free flowing game full of inaccuracies and injustices - totally reliant on a referee to see everything in a fast paced modern game - or you go for getting MOST of the big calls spot on, but you sacrifice the free flowing element of the game.
Personally I don’t want to go back to the feeling of being robbed over awful refereeing decisions. Yes I disagree with the new handball law - but by the letter of the law last nights decision was right. Much as it pains me to say it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Black Starr - and I’d choose the former.
The beautiful game survived over 100 years without it.
Some of the games most infamous moments come from bad calls or uncertainties.
Take the hand of God, Luis Garcia’s goal against Chelsea in 05 or the World Cup goal in 66 being behind the line etc.
Iconic football moments all being swallowed up by VAR. No thanks. Give me the fallible drama over the infallible science any day.
posted on 18/8/19
Another rant about VAR
posted on 18/8/19
comment by morespurs (U15748)
posted 1 minute ago
Another rant about VAR
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Just a discussion.
posted on 18/8/19
This wasn't VAR's fault for crying out loud.. Its the silly rule
posted on 18/8/19
Personally I think the rules need adapting for VAR, most obviously handball and offside. Both rules have been tweaked and adjusted so often over the years and when taken in their current variation and with VAR looking at them, you end up with decisions that just don’t feel right, like Jesus’ goal yesterday.
Offside is a prime example. The intent of the original law was to prevent attackers from goal hanging. At different points over the years assistant referees were given directives such as ‘clear daylight’ and ‘advantage with the attacker’. The current variation, being looked at with VAR is ruling out goals for millimetres, which doesn’t sit quite right with the original intent of the law.
And I do think there is a risk of losing that spontaneous celebration after goal, if in the back of people’s minds is worry VAR might rule it out. Gary Neville made the point yesterday about the fact that he regretted going big on his commentary of what he thought was the winning goal because of what happened afterwards. And if you don’t have that spontaneity, you lose an awful lot from the enjoyment of the game.
I don’t dislike VAR as a concept and maybe it’s just getting used to the biggest change in football since the back pass rule, but there are definite changes to be made to integrate the system effectively.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 11 minutes ago
You can’t have it both ways Metro. Either you have a free flowing game full of inaccuracies and injustices - totally reliant on a referee to see everything in a fast paced modern game - or you go for getting MOST of the big calls spot on, but you sacrifice the free flowing element of the game.
Personally I don’t want to go back to the feeling of being robbed over awful refereeing decisions. Yes I disagree with the new handball law - but by the letter of the law last nights decision was right. Much as it pains me to say it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Black Starr - and I’d choose the former.
The beautiful game survived over 100 years without it.
Some of the games most infamous moments come from bad calls or uncertainties.
Take the hand of God, Luis Garcia’s goal against Chelsea in 05 or the World Cup goal in 66 being behind the line etc.
Iconic football moments all being swallowed up by VAR. No thanks. Give me the fallible drama over the infallible science any day.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You see I’m in the other camp. The hand of God is an example of everything that spoils the beautiful game. Cheating or just plain bad decision making has Icost teams world cups, relegations, promotions - there’s just too much at stake to let our game be at the mercy of referees who often can’t see crucial incidents
I don’t want to go back there personally - what I would prefer is a sensible use of the technology, backed by laws that work for the game. The biggest problem i see are the new laws coming into the game that are threatening it
posted on 18/8/19
comment by 1maneontherun (U4291)
posted 5 minutes ago
This wasn't VAR's fault for crying out loud.. Its the silly rule
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think everyone accepts that.
But it’s more about the game itself being sanitised to the point of sacrificing the drama and the flow of the game.
So you lose because of a borderline offside call - big deal. We loved the game - even with the mistakes.
posted on 18/8/19
I think everybody accepts there are still some issues despite correct decisions increasing but these will be improved upon and we may even see some more clarity to the laws to help us understand the decisions and take away the subjectively.
posted on 18/8/19
Lose to an offside decision big deal, so what?! It's a major injustice and can change a clubs whole season. This can't happen.
posted on 18/8/19
Yeah I see no sacrifice of drama or flow of the game. The drama has probably increased, not that o see that as a good thing. Luckily I believe when people get used to VAR, whilst there will still be debate as there are still subjective decisions, the drama will reduce.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by JohnTerrysHardTackle - #Lampard211 (U1634)
posted 5 minutes ago
Personally I think the rules need adapting for VAR, most obviously handball and offside. Both rules have been tweaked and adjusted so often over the years and when taken in their current variation and with VAR looking at them, you end up with decisions that just don’t feel right, like Jesus’ goal yesterday.
Offside is a prime example. The intent of the original law was to prevent attackers from goal hanging. At different points over the years assistant referees were given directives such as ‘clear daylight’ and ‘advantage with the attacker’. The current variation, being looked at with VAR is ruling out goals for millimetres, which doesn’t sit quite right with the original intent of the law.
And I do think there is a risk of losing that spontaneous celebration after goal, if in the back of people’s minds is worry VAR might rule it out. Gary Neville made the point yesterday about the fact that he regretted going big on his commentary of what he thought was the winning goal because of what happened afterwards. And if you don’t have that spontaneity, you lose an awful lot from the enjoyment of the game.
I don’t dislike VAR as a concept and maybe it’s just getting used to the biggest change in football since the back pass rule, but there are definite changes to be made to integrate the system effectively.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a feeling that the longer the season goes on, the more people will dislike VAR for precisely the reasons you have stated.
It defeats the idea of the original intent of the offside law and the goal celebrations will undoubtedly be more conservative. Some people think it’s ludicrous that people will celebrate goals with more caution but after just 2 weeks into the season, we’re already seeing people speak openly about this very reservation - Gary Neville being the obvious example.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lose to an offside decision big deal, so what?! It's a major injustice and can change a clubs whole season. This can't happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you think the game survived and became so adored if as you say, it was blighted by injustice?
If a team happens to get relegated by a dodgy call, I think it’s a bit of a cop out. The reality is that they’ve been poor over 38 games.
Swings and roundabouts. You win some, you lose some but the table will roughly place you in the spot you deserve.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneRed's (U1721)
posted 2 minutes ago
Lose to an offside decision big deal, so what?! It's a major injustice and can change a clubs whole season. This can't happen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you think the game survived and became so adored if as you say, it was blighted by injustice?
If a team happens to get relegated by a dodgy call, I think it’s a bit of a cop out. The reality is that they’ve been poor over 38 games.
Swings and roundabouts. You win some, you lose some but the table will roughly place you in the spot you deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because despite the injustice we still loved the game. You win some you lose some is absolute nonsense. Anybody who believes that will of course see VAR as unnecessary. However if you watched the games the season before last when we finished fourth youd have seen it wasnt true as we were continuously on the end of incorrect decisions. I'm sure that has been the case for other clubs too and has cost them titles or relegation.
posted on 18/8/19
No real need have officials on the pitch anymore
posted on 18/8/19
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
posted on 18/8/19
VAR should be used for off the ball incidents, deliberate cheating i.e handball/diving, red card decisions. NOT for marginal offsides NOT because the ball brushed a players arm pit hair en route to goal.
VAR is fine, its the people in charge of it that need sorting out.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by Shaun M - Ran out of usernames (U9955)
posted 19 minutes ago
VAR should be used for off the ball incidents, deliberate cheating i.e handball/diving, red card decisions. NOT for marginal offsides NOT because the ball brushed a players arm pit hair en route to goal.
VAR is fine, its the people in charge of it that need sorting out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense.
Last season Liverpool had a goal ruled out because it came off an attackers arm accidentally. We had people saying that it's fair as you can't score with your arm. Now the law has been clarified and tweaked and you have VAR to confirm it and still people complain about it. Your issue is not with VAR, it's with the laws.
It's not about the people in charge of it either. You want the laws changed so no matter what they do, you'll be complaining about it.
VAR absolutely should be used for ALL offside decisions considering they're absolute and not subjective.
posted on 18/8/19
What about the foul on Rodri in the penalty area yesterday?
The fans saw it, the players appealed for it, MOTD picked up on it yet the people monitoring VAR ignored it.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 55 minutes ago
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the single biggest change in 30 years, it’s obviously going to be talking point. It’s a divisive topic but it’s weird how many fans in favour of VAR won’t even entertain a debate over it whatsoever.
I’m broadly in favour of VAR but there are definitely issues with it and it’s implementation.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by JohnTerrysHardTackle - #Lampard211 (U1634)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 55 minutes ago
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the single biggest change in 30 years, it’s obviously going to be talking point. It’s a divisive topic but it’s weird how many fans in favour of VAR won’t even entertain a debate over it whatsoever.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. They also think someone who disagrees is ‘whining’.
Nothing wrong with a sensible debate on the biggest change in the game for decades.
posted on 18/8/19
I could only be in favour of it if it was consistent which it obviously isn’t at the moment
posted on 18/8/19
Debates have to make sense to be entertained. Its only been two match days in the league. In that link in the ACL above it shows VAR can stop cheating quite effectively.
If it wasn't for VAR, Esperance would have won and we wouldn't have a clue what happened. Leaves you wondering how many injustices have gone unknown over the years.
Personally I think its better to reserve judgment until the end of the season or maybe even two seasons.
No one can make a good reading of the "biggest change in 30 years" on the back of two games.
posted on 18/8/19
You might not agree with it but the debate over the way that VAR has been implemented definitely makes sense.
I agree that it is too early to have a definitive answer on VAR but we can certainly ask questions of it now, we’ve had a World Cup with it, a season of Champions League football to look at it as well so it’s not just 2 games.
posted on 18/8/19
comment by JohnTerrysHardTackle - #Lampard211 (U1634)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by moreinjuredthanowen (U9641)
posted 55 minutes ago
Imagine if the internet existed I this form when the back pass rule was abolished or when subs were introduced.
the whining about this is unreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s the single biggest change in 30 years, it’s obviously going to be talking point. It’s a divisive topic but it’s weird how many fans in favour of VAR won’t even entertain a debate over it whatsoever.
I’m broadly in favour of VAR but there are definitely issues with it and it’s implementation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
sure. talking yes. we talked it, We endlessly trialled it. we introduced it.
imo this endless incessant whining is a symptom of the internet age.
let's all.move on with our.lives.
posted on 18/8/19
It needs a season or two to bed in and some rule changes, the most obvious being handball Law12, then I expect the luddites to get used to it. Good refereeing decisions are the right refereeing decisions. VAR helps the officials to get more right which is great.
Page 2 of 8
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