comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 22 minutes ago
The comparison with the 6 Nations is absurd to begin with.
International sport with the same competitors every year, no relegation, spread over a short window.
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None of that has any impact in the discussion whatsoever. The topic of celebrating when there is a risk of a score being disallowed has a direct parallel with rugby. This provides evidence that directly contradicts your claim that you cannot celebrate a goal. If you were right then rugby fans would never celebrate a try (which occur at approx the same rate as goals) bit they clearly do.
Just trying to shut the discussion down by calling it absurd is what happens when you can't refute the points made.
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Utter tripe, the 6 nations is done and dusted in less than 2 months.
The football season lasts for 10 months and unlike international sport, the vast majority of fans are more connected to their football club if they go to most games than they could ever be to an international team that plays about 10 times a year and is probably based in a city they live nowhere near.
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The time frame of the tournaments has absolutely no relevance to the discussion, which is solely about VAR and supporters celebrating. The football world cup is about 2 months and I saw thousands of England fans absolutely lose it when they thought Wngland were going to win a semi final.
Also, the fact that football fans are more connected to their club than country is completely irrelevant. The vast majority of international rugby fans are more connected to their country than a football team.
Your comment has no relation to the topic and only serves to try and distract from the subject.
Football fans celebrate goals. Rugby fans celebrate tries. Both are the primary method of scoring. Both average approx 3 per game. Both have the potential to be overturned by video ref. Rugby has had video ref longer and provides evidence that fans still celebrate a score despite the risk of it being overturned. Football also shows this by Man City fans celebrating their winner against spurs and then spurs fans celebrating it being disallowed.
These are all facts that provide evidence to my position. What evidence do you have that fans aren't able to celebrate?
“Football also shows this by Man City fans celebrating their winner against spurs and then spurs fans celebrating it being disallowed”
And this is a positive for you?
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
“Football also shows this by Man City fans celebrating their winner against spurs and then spurs fans celebrating it being disallowed”
And this is a positive for you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't it be?
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in rammed pubs watching big games that have just as much emotion. I've also been in city centre fan zones watching on a screen with almost as many people as in the stadium and it has had just as much emotion.
You don't gave the authority to decide who "gets" the emotion of a match. Try telling the liverpool fans who travelled to madrid, just to watch the match in the local pubs, that they dont have the same emotion as the ones in the ground. See what they say.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Says who? You?
I have been to Stamford Bridge hundreds of times but emigrated from the UK years ago, can now only go a few times a years......I am now more or less an arm chair fan, are you saying I dont get this?
I am guessing almost everyone here has been to dozens of games you think they dont get this?
I am confused with what point you are trying to make as the only one seems to be is belittle someones opinion because they arent a season ticket holder which quite frankly is illogical and hold no water what so ever?!?
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in rammed pubs watching big games that have just as much emotion. I've also been in city centre fan zones watching on a screen with almost as many people as in the stadium and it has had just as much emotion.
You don't gave the authority to decide who "gets" the emotion of a match. Try telling the liverpool fans who travelled to madrid, just to watch the match in the local pubs, that they dont have the same emotion as the ones in the ground. See what they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in rammed pubs watching big games that have just as much emotion. I've also been in city centre fan zones watching on a screen with almost as many people as in the stadium and it has had just as much emotion.
You don't gave the authority to decide who "gets" the emotion of a match. Try telling the liverpool fans who travelled to madrid, just to watch the match in the local pubs, that they dont have the same emotion as the ones in the ground. See what they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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I should say that my statement also applied to Spurs, Arsenal, and Chelsea fans at their respective finals and to generally to all clubs
I don't recall any decisions being overturned by VAR in those 2 games.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
I don't recall any decisions being overturned by VAR in those 2 games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please just try to think about how your comment relates to the conversation, and if it doesn't then it probably isn't worth making.
You said that armchair fans don't get passion the same as fans in the game. This was a general statement made by you. It doesn't only apply to games that had a VAR reversal. It applies to every game.
Fans in the pub, or at the fan zone, or at home will be equally as disappointed if they have a goal ruled out. They will also be jubilant if VAR awards them a penalty or rules out an opposition goal.
There is no loss of celebration because a goal might be disallowed after her fact. City fans still celebrated 2 late winners against spurs. Spurs fans then celebrated 2 reversals that benefitted them. This matches rugby, which has many more years of evidence to draw from.
You might not like it, and so decide to not celebrate when your team scores. That is up to you. Seems a bit foolish to me. I will still celebrate when my team scores and be disappointed if it is ruled out, but I will be more confident that if it is ruled out it is because it should contravened the rules. This is a positive because I can equally apply that confidence to not conceding illegal goals in important matches.
In rugby you know within a couple of seconds if a try is going to be subject to a review and you can hear the dialogoue between the ref and the camera people.
That doesn't happen in football and proven in the City v Spurs games when everyone in the stadium, including all 4 officals, thought it was a goal until over 30 seconds had passed and the referee was told that there was going to be a review and signalled accordingly.
No comparison to rugby from a spectators point of view.
I don’t care if anyone else in the stadium doesn’t celebrate (they will). I will celebrate every goal we score as I did before. I will then be laughed at by opposition fans when VAR disallows it just like they did when the ref did it in previous seasons.
It may happen more frequently now due to VAR but there were plenty of occasions where the fans celebrated only for 30 seconds later to be told the ref has now disallowed it
I've never seen a ref take 30 seconds to disallow a goal.
I have seen the lino put his flag up immediately or the ref hold his arm up right away and signal an infringement plus the referee will award a free kick and you'll know why through his arm signals.
None of that now, a faceless person allows or disallows a goal with no reason given.
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 14 minutes ago
I've never seen a ref take 30 seconds to disallow a goal.
I have seen the lino put his flag up immediately or the ref hold his arm up right away and signal an infringement plus the referee will award a free kick and you'll know why through his arm signals.
None of that now, a faceless person allows or disallows a goal with no reason given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 14 minutes ago
I've never seen a ref take 30 seconds to disallow a goal.
I have seen the lino put his flag up immediately or the ref hold his arm up right away and signal an infringement plus the referee will award a free kick and you'll know why through his arm signals.
None of that now, a faceless person allows or disallows a goal with no reason given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not entirely true. The ref indicates that free kick was given but they often dont indicate the reason for it. So there were many, many times a team had a goal disallowed and fans didn't know why.
Now they do know why because it is shown on the big screen, or announced (since anfield and OT don't have big screens). So the reason is given and it is the ref in the middle who makes the decision (who has a face).
Sire rugby fans might know there will be a check more quickly. This is to be expected when a system has been in place for over 15 years compared to one in its infancy.
I do agree with you about hearing the ref though. Unfortunately, they tried this before and had to give up because footballers are apparently incapable of letting the ref make a decision without screaming expletives at him.
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In typical fashion the FA/PL have fudged
Page 5 of 5
posted on 27/8/19
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 22 minutes ago
The comparison with the 6 Nations is absurd to begin with.
International sport with the same competitors every year, no relegation, spread over a short window.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
None of that has any impact in the discussion whatsoever. The topic of celebrating when there is a risk of a score being disallowed has a direct parallel with rugby. This provides evidence that directly contradicts your claim that you cannot celebrate a goal. If you were right then rugby fans would never celebrate a try (which occur at approx the same rate as goals) bit they clearly do.
Just trying to shut the discussion down by calling it absurd is what happens when you can't refute the points made.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Utter tripe, the 6 nations is done and dusted in less than 2 months.
The football season lasts for 10 months and unlike international sport, the vast majority of fans are more connected to their football club if they go to most games than they could ever be to an international team that plays about 10 times a year and is probably based in a city they live nowhere near.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The time frame of the tournaments has absolutely no relevance to the discussion, which is solely about VAR and supporters celebrating. The football world cup is about 2 months and I saw thousands of England fans absolutely lose it when they thought Wngland were going to win a semi final.
Also, the fact that football fans are more connected to their club than country is completely irrelevant. The vast majority of international rugby fans are more connected to their country than a football team.
Your comment has no relation to the topic and only serves to try and distract from the subject.
Football fans celebrate goals. Rugby fans celebrate tries. Both are the primary method of scoring. Both average approx 3 per game. Both have the potential to be overturned by video ref. Rugby has had video ref longer and provides evidence that fans still celebrate a score despite the risk of it being overturned. Football also shows this by Man City fans celebrating their winner against spurs and then spurs fans celebrating it being disallowed.
These are all facts that provide evidence to my position. What evidence do you have that fans aren't able to celebrate?
posted on 28/8/19
“Football also shows this by Man City fans celebrating their winner against spurs and then spurs fans celebrating it being disallowed”
And this is a positive for you?
posted on 28/8/19
comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
“Football also shows this by Man City fans celebrating their winner against spurs and then spurs fans celebrating it being disallowed”
And this is a positive for you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't it be?
posted on 28/8/19
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
posted on 28/8/19
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in rammed pubs watching big games that have just as much emotion. I've also been in city centre fan zones watching on a screen with almost as many people as in the stadium and it has had just as much emotion.
You don't gave the authority to decide who "gets" the emotion of a match. Try telling the liverpool fans who travelled to madrid, just to watch the match in the local pubs, that they dont have the same emotion as the ones in the ground. See what they say.
posted on 28/8/19
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Says who? You?
I have been to Stamford Bridge hundreds of times but emigrated from the UK years ago, can now only go a few times a years......I am now more or less an arm chair fan, are you saying I dont get this?
I am guessing almost everyone here has been to dozens of games you think they dont get this?
I am confused with what point you are trying to make as the only one seems to be is belittle someones opinion because they arent a season ticket holder which quite frankly is illogical and hold no water what so ever?!?
posted on 28/8/19
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in rammed pubs watching big games that have just as much emotion. I've also been in city centre fan zones watching on a screen with almost as many people as in the stadium and it has had just as much emotion.
You don't gave the authority to decide who "gets" the emotion of a match. Try telling the liverpool fans who travelled to madrid, just to watch the match in the local pubs, that they dont have the same emotion as the ones in the ground. See what they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 28/8/19
comment by Simon West (U1830)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 hour, 54 minutes ago
Because armchair fans don’t ‘get’ the emotions of actually being there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been in rammed pubs watching big games that have just as much emotion. I've also been in city centre fan zones watching on a screen with almost as many people as in the stadium and it has had just as much emotion.
You don't gave the authority to decide who "gets" the emotion of a match. Try telling the liverpool fans who travelled to madrid, just to watch the match in the local pubs, that they dont have the same emotion as the ones in the ground. See what they say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I should say that my statement also applied to Spurs, Arsenal, and Chelsea fans at their respective finals and to generally to all clubs
posted on 28/8/19
I don't recall any decisions being overturned by VAR in those 2 games.
posted on 28/8/19
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 1 minute ago
I don't recall any decisions being overturned by VAR in those 2 games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Please just try to think about how your comment relates to the conversation, and if it doesn't then it probably isn't worth making.
You said that armchair fans don't get passion the same as fans in the game. This was a general statement made by you. It doesn't only apply to games that had a VAR reversal. It applies to every game.
Fans in the pub, or at the fan zone, or at home will be equally as disappointed if they have a goal ruled out. They will also be jubilant if VAR awards them a penalty or rules out an opposition goal.
There is no loss of celebration because a goal might be disallowed after her fact. City fans still celebrated 2 late winners against spurs. Spurs fans then celebrated 2 reversals that benefitted them. This matches rugby, which has many more years of evidence to draw from.
You might not like it, and so decide to not celebrate when your team scores. That is up to you. Seems a bit foolish to me. I will still celebrate when my team scores and be disappointed if it is ruled out, but I will be more confident that if it is ruled out it is because it should contravened the rules. This is a positive because I can equally apply that confidence to not conceding illegal goals in important matches.
posted on 28/8/19
In rugby you know within a couple of seconds if a try is going to be subject to a review and you can hear the dialogoue between the ref and the camera people.
That doesn't happen in football and proven in the City v Spurs games when everyone in the stadium, including all 4 officals, thought it was a goal until over 30 seconds had passed and the referee was told that there was going to be a review and signalled accordingly.
No comparison to rugby from a spectators point of view.
posted on 28/8/19
I don’t care if anyone else in the stadium doesn’t celebrate (they will). I will celebrate every goal we score as I did before. I will then be laughed at by opposition fans when VAR disallows it just like they did when the ref did it in previous seasons.
It may happen more frequently now due to VAR but there were plenty of occasions where the fans celebrated only for 30 seconds later to be told the ref has now disallowed it
posted on 28/8/19
I've never seen a ref take 30 seconds to disallow a goal.
I have seen the lino put his flag up immediately or the ref hold his arm up right away and signal an infringement plus the referee will award a free kick and you'll know why through his arm signals.
None of that now, a faceless person allows or disallows a goal with no reason given.
posted on 28/8/19
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 14 minutes ago
I've never seen a ref take 30 seconds to disallow a goal.
I have seen the lino put his flag up immediately or the ref hold his arm up right away and signal an infringement plus the referee will award a free kick and you'll know why through his arm signals.
None of that now, a faceless person allows or disallows a goal with no reason given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 28/8/19
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson - Football Is Dead (U5901)
posted 14 minutes ago
I've never seen a ref take 30 seconds to disallow a goal.
I have seen the lino put his flag up immediately or the ref hold his arm up right away and signal an infringement plus the referee will award a free kick and you'll know why through his arm signals.
None of that now, a faceless person allows or disallows a goal with no reason given.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not entirely true. The ref indicates that free kick was given but they often dont indicate the reason for it. So there were many, many times a team had a goal disallowed and fans didn't know why.
Now they do know why because it is shown on the big screen, or announced (since anfield and OT don't have big screens). So the reason is given and it is the ref in the middle who makes the decision (who has a face).
Sire rugby fans might know there will be a check more quickly. This is to be expected when a system has been in place for over 15 years compared to one in its infancy.
I do agree with you about hearing the ref though. Unfortunately, they tried this before and had to give up because footballers are apparently incapable of letting the ref make a decision without screaming expletives at him.
Page 5 of 5