I agree oldgold that Doherty has been a big miss. A wing back has to be able to contribute at both ends of the pitch and Traore just doesn't. To be fair to him I did think in the first half hour he looked the most likely to create something for us in the attacking third. But he just doesn't have the nous to defend and it was surprising with him there and Boly suspended, that Nuno gave Vallejo his first league start.
Looking at the highlights videos it was alarming how Vallejo was all over the place for the second and third goals, and for the second goal how Traore was strolling back as Mount attacked on the left and he made no attempt to challenge. And Abrahams was allowed to push up on to Coady and he certainly won that battle all ends up. We must surely have a back 5 of Doherty, Bennett, Coady, Boly and Jonnny at Palace.
Be wrong to put all our woes onto the defence though. We haven't been effective in midfield and we certainly need Neves and Jota to step up to the mark more. They are so important to the way we play.
Agree with a lot of what Tam says and have voiced my concerns this season regarding how negative we are becoming. We look a much better side when we get on the ball and control the game a bit for spells rather than just sitting deep waiting for that one counter chance. That style just isn't sustainable of you want longer term success.
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
Agree with a lot of what Tam says and have voiced my concerns this season regarding how negative we are becoming. We look a much better side when we get on the ball and control the game a bit for spells rather than just sitting deep waiting for that one counter chance. That style just isn't sustainable of you want longer term success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really get why more people aren't questioning the tactics at the moment to be honest. I haven't found it enjoyable to watch and like you said, its not sustainable.
Its almost like questioning Nuno is forbidden; but if an opposing team managed by someone like Hughton turned up and played like we are at the moment; everyone would be moaning about how negative they are. I hope Nuno sorts it out but he definitely needs to change something.
I would certainly question team selection the last two games but being overly negative wouldn’t be the criticism I would make. Playing Traore and Vinagre at Everton who are both better attacking than defending was a mistake away against a decent team. And on Saturday he probably had no choice other than Traore with Doherty not fully fit, but at least he recalled Jonny. But with Traore there and Boly suspended it was a poor decision to give Vallejo his first league start. In midfield Neves playing deep is nothing new but Dendoncker has had to spend too much time trying to fill the gaps behind Traore rather than playing his usual game so we have lacked support behind the strikers.
But we have scored 4 goals over the last two games which is fine. Problem is we have conceded 8
There is no comparison between the way play and how Hughton set up Brighton
I don't think that is entirely true, we set up against Chelsea last season like we were a conference team and had literally no intention of trying to score in that game but yet we had all this nonsense about being 'proud' of the team. It was a small time mentality and i don't like it. We are going into games first and foremost to stop the opposition and generally the only time we look threatening is when we have to go at the opposition.
Should add i am not gonna throw the toys out the pram but i hope Nuno takes a look and changes things a little. I ddn't expect a league campaign like last season and i am not too bothered by us finishing 12th or so if we do well in Europe.
comment by Spangles (U17289)
posted 8 minutes ago
I would certainly question team selection the last two games but being overly negative wouldn’t be the criticism I would make. Playing Traore and Vinagre at Everton who are both better attacking than defending was a mistake away against a decent team. And on Saturday he probably had no choice other than Traore with Doherty not fully fit, but at least he recalled Jonny. But with Traore there and Boly suspended it was a poor decision to give Vallejo his first league start. In midfield Neves playing deep is nothing new but Dendoncker has had to spend too much time trying to fill the gaps behind Traore rather than playing his usual game so we have lacked support behind the strikers.
But we have scored 4 goals over the last two games which is fine. Problem is we have conceded 8
There is no comparison between the way play and how Hughton set up Brighton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is every comparison. We have not yet taken the lead in any of our games. We barely threaten the oppositions goal in the first half and usually go in at half time behind.
It is only in the second half when we need to save the game that we offer anything attacking and even then, it isn't any sustained pressure and is usually too late or giving ourselves too much to do. That is what happened at Brighton last year.
We didn't have a shot on goal on Saturday until the 44th minute. That is pretty poor. We haven't won in any of our first 5 league games and to be honest, haven't deserved to.
I think we were unlucky not to win at Leicester but no disputing we haven’t played well in the last three league games. Let’s not forget in the meantime we have won 6 on the trot in the Europa League scoring 19 goals in the process, 5 of those against a Torino team that will go joint top of Serie A if they get their expected win tonight.
All I would disagree with in your comments is that we are being too negative and your comparison with Hughton. We had the minority of possession in most games last season but it was still good to watch, this year our attacking is suffering from weary legs and players like Neves and Jota being below par.
As for Hughton I am not sure I have ever seen a team set up more negatively than his at Molineux in April. They weren’t relying on breakaways they were just intent on defending their penalty area the whole game. They didn’t have one shot on target and probably wouldn’t have done if we were still playing now
Neves has been below par all season. I'm not sure we can blame fatigue for it.
I think the reason we are ok in the Europa League is that teams like Torino (the other teams we have played have been poor) haven't sussed us out and don't know how to play us. Premier League teams have sussed us out. If you nullify the counter attack then you nullify our threat and control the game.
Unless we change something in our set up, it will be a long season.
Not sure we will change the set up and I think it will look better with Doherty back. Cutrone is pushing for more chances but that isn’t the area of the pitch where we are short, although Jota is not at his best. Still think the transfer window was a positive midfielder short, and Vallejo still has a lot to learn
If you look back at last season, there weren't many games where we scored more than twice, our game was based primarily on building on a strong defensive formation. Long passes have been a feature of our game mixed up with clinical shorter passing and pacey movement. I don't see that that has changed too much, it just hasn't been as effective because teams have worked much harder rather than just turning and playing their football and expecting it to be enough. The commitment shown by by United and Chelsea this season was far far higher than last season. Teams have sussed us out in that they now know if they let us play we'll punish them, but if they get bodies around the ball we'll struggle to move it. Agree too that had we scored first when we were on top against Chelsea on Saturday, the game would have had a different dynamic, they would have been looking to play in their shape more rather than being able to crowd us out. Its been like playground football at times this season but mainly because opposition teams have moved three or four players towards the ball when we have it in the wide middle thirds of the pitch. We do need to find a way to counter that, but an early goal or two would certainly help.
Poor transfer window
Extra games
Rigid tactics
We were never going to improve on or even match last seasons league finish this term
It’s an interesting point you make oldgold because I thought last season our strange results of beating the top teams and losing to the poor ones was because the top teams made no special plans for us but the strugglers set out to stop us building our game. Maybe the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd learned a bit from Huddersfield and Cardiff about how to play against us
Yeah certainly seems that way DJ.
You still in the UK Cinci?
Nah, back last night Goldi. Haven't had a cold for three years but naturally picked one up in the UK. Now i am home i shall be able to watch Wolves games again. Hate the British coverage, it is so archaic.
Here I am
Laptop has gone belly up again. Getting a new hard drive fitted and should have it back Wednesday/Thursday.
A bit miffed as I have a cracking preview done for the Braga game on Thursday but it's on my laptop desktop so I can't access it.
Anyway in a nutshell, Braga are about as good as Torino and we beat them twice. Boly will be available and hopefully Nuno will stop fecking about with the back line and put Bennett back in, Doc will start and with Jonny on the left we may look something like the Wolves that were so hard to score against.
2-0 Wolves COMB
Jamie O’Hara confirmed as new boss of Billericay Town. Good luck to him.
Good luck Jamie. Still playing and now managing at a few levels higher than the gutter. Always good to see people over achieving
Wolves will go into Thursday’s game only one off the bottom of the Premier League but Braga are doing no better as they are 16th of 18 in the Portuguese top flight. It’s their worst start since 1993 and defeat against Wolves may well see their manager shown the door
comment by Spangles (U17289)
posted 8 minutes ago
Wolves will go into Thursday’s game only one off the bottom of the Premier League but Braga are doing no better as they are 16th of 18 in the Portuguese top flight. It’s their worst start since 1993 and defeat against Wolves may well see their manager shown the door
----------------------------------------------------------------------
God I hope not. 'New Manager Bounce' might see them thrash us in the return leg
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 16 hours, 19 minutes ago
Nah, back last night Goldi. Haven't had a cold for three years but naturally picked one up in the UK. Now i am home i shall be able to watch Wolves games again. Hate the British coverage, it is so archaic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rights holders eh, but its what brings the cashola.
Talking of which, what are we to make of Fosun looking to sell a stake in the club? I wonder if they have a partner in mind already? It may be that they have decided that its going to take more investment than even they can muster to bring us up to the level they expect. Could lead to boardroom unrest further down the line though, seen that elsewhere.
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💦Wolves v Chelsea💦
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posted on 16/9/19
I agree oldgold that Doherty has been a big miss. A wing back has to be able to contribute at both ends of the pitch and Traore just doesn't. To be fair to him I did think in the first half hour he looked the most likely to create something for us in the attacking third. But he just doesn't have the nous to defend and it was surprising with him there and Boly suspended, that Nuno gave Vallejo his first league start.
Looking at the highlights videos it was alarming how Vallejo was all over the place for the second and third goals, and for the second goal how Traore was strolling back as Mount attacked on the left and he made no attempt to challenge. And Abrahams was allowed to push up on to Coady and he certainly won that battle all ends up. We must surely have a back 5 of Doherty, Bennett, Coady, Boly and Jonnny at Palace.
Be wrong to put all our woes onto the defence though. We haven't been effective in midfield and we certainly need Neves and Jota to step up to the mark more. They are so important to the way we play.
posted on 16/9/19
Agree with a lot of what Tam says and have voiced my concerns this season regarding how negative we are becoming. We look a much better side when we get on the ball and control the game a bit for spells rather than just sitting deep waiting for that one counter chance. That style just isn't sustainable of you want longer term success.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 2 minutes ago
Agree with a lot of what Tam says and have voiced my concerns this season regarding how negative we are becoming. We look a much better side when we get on the ball and control the game a bit for spells rather than just sitting deep waiting for that one counter chance. That style just isn't sustainable of you want longer term success.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't really get why more people aren't questioning the tactics at the moment to be honest. I haven't found it enjoyable to watch and like you said, its not sustainable.
Its almost like questioning Nuno is forbidden; but if an opposing team managed by someone like Hughton turned up and played like we are at the moment; everyone would be moaning about how negative they are. I hope Nuno sorts it out but he definitely needs to change something.
posted on 16/9/19
I would certainly question team selection the last two games but being overly negative wouldn’t be the criticism I would make. Playing Traore and Vinagre at Everton who are both better attacking than defending was a mistake away against a decent team. And on Saturday he probably had no choice other than Traore with Doherty not fully fit, but at least he recalled Jonny. But with Traore there and Boly suspended it was a poor decision to give Vallejo his first league start. In midfield Neves playing deep is nothing new but Dendoncker has had to spend too much time trying to fill the gaps behind Traore rather than playing his usual game so we have lacked support behind the strikers.
But we have scored 4 goals over the last two games which is fine. Problem is we have conceded 8
There is no comparison between the way play and how Hughton set up Brighton
posted on 16/9/19
I don't think that is entirely true, we set up against Chelsea last season like we were a conference team and had literally no intention of trying to score in that game but yet we had all this nonsense about being 'proud' of the team. It was a small time mentality and i don't like it. We are going into games first and foremost to stop the opposition and generally the only time we look threatening is when we have to go at the opposition.
posted on 16/9/19
Should add i am not gonna throw the toys out the pram but i hope Nuno takes a look and changes things a little. I ddn't expect a league campaign like last season and i am not too bothered by us finishing 12th or so if we do well in Europe.
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Spangles (U17289)
posted 8 minutes ago
I would certainly question team selection the last two games but being overly negative wouldn’t be the criticism I would make. Playing Traore and Vinagre at Everton who are both better attacking than defending was a mistake away against a decent team. And on Saturday he probably had no choice other than Traore with Doherty not fully fit, but at least he recalled Jonny. But with Traore there and Boly suspended it was a poor decision to give Vallejo his first league start. In midfield Neves playing deep is nothing new but Dendoncker has had to spend too much time trying to fill the gaps behind Traore rather than playing his usual game so we have lacked support behind the strikers.
But we have scored 4 goals over the last two games which is fine. Problem is we have conceded 8
There is no comparison between the way play and how Hughton set up Brighton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is every comparison. We have not yet taken the lead in any of our games. We barely threaten the oppositions goal in the first half and usually go in at half time behind.
It is only in the second half when we need to save the game that we offer anything attacking and even then, it isn't any sustained pressure and is usually too late or giving ourselves too much to do. That is what happened at Brighton last year.
We didn't have a shot on goal on Saturday until the 44th minute. That is pretty poor. We haven't won in any of our first 5 league games and to be honest, haven't deserved to.
posted on 16/9/19
I think we were unlucky not to win at Leicester but no disputing we haven’t played well in the last three league games. Let’s not forget in the meantime we have won 6 on the trot in the Europa League scoring 19 goals in the process, 5 of those against a Torino team that will go joint top of Serie A if they get their expected win tonight.
All I would disagree with in your comments is that we are being too negative and your comparison with Hughton. We had the minority of possession in most games last season but it was still good to watch, this year our attacking is suffering from weary legs and players like Neves and Jota being below par.
As for Hughton I am not sure I have ever seen a team set up more negatively than his at Molineux in April. They weren’t relying on breakaways they were just intent on defending their penalty area the whole game. They didn’t have one shot on target and probably wouldn’t have done if we were still playing now
posted on 16/9/19
Neves has been below par all season. I'm not sure we can blame fatigue for it.
I think the reason we are ok in the Europa League is that teams like Torino (the other teams we have played have been poor) haven't sussed us out and don't know how to play us. Premier League teams have sussed us out. If you nullify the counter attack then you nullify our threat and control the game.
Unless we change something in our set up, it will be a long season.
posted on 16/9/19
Not sure we will change the set up and I think it will look better with Doherty back. Cutrone is pushing for more chances but that isn’t the area of the pitch where we are short, although Jota is not at his best. Still think the transfer window was a positive midfielder short, and Vallejo still has a lot to learn
posted on 16/9/19
If you look back at last season, there weren't many games where we scored more than twice, our game was based primarily on building on a strong defensive formation. Long passes have been a feature of our game mixed up with clinical shorter passing and pacey movement. I don't see that that has changed too much, it just hasn't been as effective because teams have worked much harder rather than just turning and playing their football and expecting it to be enough. The commitment shown by by United and Chelsea this season was far far higher than last season. Teams have sussed us out in that they now know if they let us play we'll punish them, but if they get bodies around the ball we'll struggle to move it. Agree too that had we scored first when we were on top against Chelsea on Saturday, the game would have had a different dynamic, they would have been looking to play in their shape more rather than being able to crowd us out. Its been like playground football at times this season but mainly because opposition teams have moved three or four players towards the ball when we have it in the wide middle thirds of the pitch. We do need to find a way to counter that, but an early goal or two would certainly help.
posted on 16/9/19
Poor transfer window
Extra games
Rigid tactics
We were never going to improve on or even match last seasons league finish this term
posted on 16/9/19
It’s an interesting point you make oldgold because I thought last season our strange results of beating the top teams and losing to the poor ones was because the top teams made no special plans for us but the strugglers set out to stop us building our game. Maybe the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd learned a bit from Huddersfield and Cardiff about how to play against us
posted on 16/9/19
Yeah certainly seems that way DJ.
You still in the UK Cinci?
posted on 16/9/19
Nah, back last night Goldi. Haven't had a cold for three years but naturally picked one up in the UK. Now i am home i shall be able to watch Wolves games again. Hate the British coverage, it is so archaic.
posted on 16/9/19
Anyone seen Gemlad???
posted on 16/9/19
Here I am
Laptop has gone belly up again. Getting a new hard drive fitted and should have it back Wednesday/Thursday.
A bit miffed as I have a cracking preview done for the Braga game on Thursday but it's on my laptop desktop so I can't access it.
Anyway in a nutshell, Braga are about as good as Torino and we beat them twice. Boly will be available and hopefully Nuno will stop fecking about with the back line and put Bennett back in, Doc will start and with Jonny on the left we may look something like the Wolves that were so hard to score against.
2-0 Wolves COMB
posted on 16/9/19
Jamie O’Hara confirmed as new boss of Billericay Town. Good luck to him.
posted on 16/9/19
Good luck Jamie. Still playing and now managing at a few levels higher than the gutter. Always good to see people over achieving
posted on 16/9/19
Wolves will go into Thursday’s game only one off the bottom of the Premier League but Braga are doing no better as they are 16th of 18 in the Portuguese top flight. It’s their worst start since 1993 and defeat against Wolves may well see their manager shown the door
posted on 16/9/19
comment by Spangles (U17289)
posted 8 minutes ago
Wolves will go into Thursday’s game only one off the bottom of the Premier League but Braga are doing no better as they are 16th of 18 in the Portuguese top flight. It’s their worst start since 1993 and defeat against Wolves may well see their manager shown the door
----------------------------------------------------------------------
God I hope not. 'New Manager Bounce' might see them thrash us in the return leg
posted on 17/9/19
‘Cracking preview’
posted on 17/9/19
"Thread Master"
posted on 17/9/19
Herb
posted on 17/9/19
comment by Cinciwolf---- jealous little scottish to$$er (U11551)
posted 16 hours, 19 minutes ago
Nah, back last night Goldi. Haven't had a cold for three years but naturally picked one up in the UK. Now i am home i shall be able to watch Wolves games again. Hate the British coverage, it is so archaic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rights holders eh, but its what brings the cashola.
Talking of which, what are we to make of Fosun looking to sell a stake in the club? I wonder if they have a partner in mind already? It may be that they have decided that its going to take more investment than even they can muster to bring us up to the level they expect. Could lead to boardroom unrest further down the line though, seen that elsewhere.
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