Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Firstly, i don't want to get involved into this discussion as it has been covered m,any, many times before & more often than not evolves into a WUM fest.
Secondly, i would just like to say that it's wonderful to have a West Indies fan on here & hopefully more & more cricket fans who aren't English or from the sub-cont will join.
Also, CONGRATULATIONS for your result yesterday, you brought England back to earth which will also help us in the long run
the whole problem with this argument is the england cricket team is not actually a national side
it is the team that represents the england and wales cricket board and the consitution of the ECB determines who can play
in the same way that the west indies is not actually a country and the WICB represents a collection of member nations , guyana for example is not even part of the west indies itself but a country on the south american continent but due to its historical links with the old british empire it is part of the WICB
as i have said on many occasions there are only two things that matter to me; is the player eligible to play for england and does he want to do so
this argument is so silly in current society tbh and is far less prevalent in cricket than it is in most other sports
take a look at the teams playing in the current rugby world cup and see how many players are not representing the country of their birth
in the last football world cup something like 19 of the 23 players in the algerian squad were born and brought up in france and some of them had never actually been to algeria apart from when they played home games
its only became a discussion point atm because of the fact the england team are successful atm and people like neon want to try and do anything they can to throw dirt on that success
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of course it did neon , but you have been repeating the same old trash about the south african connection for weeks
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Neon you are a complete utter joke. What a waste of time and space..... one week you yourself start articles about how english cricket has thrived on "non-english" players and that india got beat by "south africans" and so on..... A week later, you come on here and say the exact opposite and now england should be applauded........ make up your mind... Your making youself look foolish!!!
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Neon,
You know exactly what your saying. you have stated before many times that "english players" are not good enough so england "raid" players from other countries.....
Regards to tips, not sure..... Although lets hope umar gul and wahab riaz dont take any wicket taking tips from the likes of praveeeeen and harpchan sing....... they'd rather go to RP singh - 86 overs in test cricket and still awaiting a wicket.......
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I'd rather have him than a player in a courtroom.
____________________________________
whys that then? I'd rather have him than a player in a courtroom.......... Azharuddin didnt do too badly did he? Moti due in soon..... Jadeja....add that to allegations of corruption, greed, and tax evasion from BCCI and modi.... Yeah i can see where your coming from.......
Indians taking about morals and fairplay........... brilliant...... keep it up neon...... your good entertainment mate....
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If someone was living in your Lounge..yes in your house.....would you deny knowing he lived there?
_______________________________
what you on about?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Just a question neon, what nationality was the Indian coach during their rankings topping run?
When was the last time an Indian actually coached the side?
"England have failed year after year to win anything. Someplayers whose skills were nurtured else where get into the side..and BOOM...they becoem a top side."
Engand have often had payers in their team in the past who's formative years in cricket were spent abroad. So that's no reason for Engand's recent succes.
+ 8/9 of Engand's team over the last 3 or 4 years learnt their cricket in England, and I reckon they've made just as much, and probably more, of a contribution as the 2/3 players whose youth was spent abroad.
Think the real reason for England becoming test no.1 are that we have better players (wherever they come from), a good organisation backing them up, and the fact that the standard of world cricket at the moment is, perhaps, not as high as it was 5-10 years ago.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Other nations should do the same.. Then they cant complain? or is it they are souly not interested in people from other backgrounds and born in differant nations to represent them? at least there are no boundries to play for England..
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"What I was saying is England have been helped, massivily, by the SA youth setup...theres no doubting it"
Have they really?
Firstly, only 2 players in the current England test set-up have been through the SA youth system and, secondly, is what you learn in youth cricket really more important than what you learn during your professional career?
I'd say, probably not, and I'd argue that both KP and Trott have developed as cricketers due as much, if not more, to their time playing in English cricket, as they did due to their time in schoolboy cricket in SA.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
"comment by neon1001uk (U6361) posted 4 minutes ago
Hoggy - KP averaged over 55 in his debut county season."
And hadn't, as far as I'm aware, averaged anything like that in SA, where he was regarded as a spin bowling lower order slogger. So it was the coaches at Notts who recognised where his true talent lay.
"Trott and Kieswetter both played for the SA under 19's. Troot played 3 tests for them and Kieswetter played in the 2006 world cup"
So?
Playing u19 cricket doesn't mean that you're ready for full internationals does it?
True, it probably means that you have some talent, but in most cases that talent has to be further developed before such players are ready for full recognition. In both Trott and Kieswetter's cases that further development has taken place in England, under the auspices of the English system and, IMO, is just as vital to where they are as cricketers today as their time in SA.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Neon
If you want to WUM go ahead.
Don't accuse others of so doing.
If you can't credit the English set-up for being at least as important in the development of KP, Trott and Kieswetter as SA youth systems, then you obviously don't understand much about the development of sportsmen.
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English born - does it matter?
Page 1 of 3
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
Firstly, i don't want to get involved into this discussion as it has been covered m,any, many times before & more often than not evolves into a WUM fest.
Secondly, i would just like to say that it's wonderful to have a West Indies fan on here & hopefully more & more cricket fans who aren't English or from the sub-cont will join.
Also, CONGRATULATIONS for your result yesterday, you brought England back to earth which will also help us in the long run
posted on 26/9/11
the whole problem with this argument is the england cricket team is not actually a national side
it is the team that represents the england and wales cricket board and the consitution of the ECB determines who can play
in the same way that the west indies is not actually a country and the WICB represents a collection of member nations , guyana for example is not even part of the west indies itself but a country on the south american continent but due to its historical links with the old british empire it is part of the WICB
as i have said on many occasions there are only two things that matter to me; is the player eligible to play for england and does he want to do so
this argument is so silly in current society tbh and is far less prevalent in cricket than it is in most other sports
take a look at the teams playing in the current rugby world cup and see how many players are not representing the country of their birth
in the last football world cup something like 19 of the 23 players in the algerian squad were born and brought up in france and some of them had never actually been to algeria apart from when they played home games
its only became a discussion point atm because of the fact the england team are successful atm and people like neon want to try and do anything they can to throw dirt on that success
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
of course it did neon , but you have been repeating the same old trash about the south african connection for weeks
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
Neon you are a complete utter joke. What a waste of time and space..... one week you yourself start articles about how english cricket has thrived on "non-english" players and that india got beat by "south africans" and so on..... A week later, you come on here and say the exact opposite and now england should be applauded........ make up your mind... Your making youself look foolish!!!
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
Neon,
You know exactly what your saying. you have stated before many times that "english players" are not good enough so england "raid" players from other countries.....
Regards to tips, not sure..... Although lets hope umar gul and wahab riaz dont take any wicket taking tips from the likes of praveeeeen and harpchan sing....... they'd rather go to RP singh - 86 overs in test cricket and still awaiting a wicket.......
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
I'd rather have him than a player in a courtroom.
____________________________________
whys that then? I'd rather have him than a player in a courtroom.......... Azharuddin didnt do too badly did he? Moti due in soon..... Jadeja....add that to allegations of corruption, greed, and tax evasion from BCCI and modi.... Yeah i can see where your coming from.......
Indians taking about morals and fairplay........... brilliant...... keep it up neon...... your good entertainment mate....
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
If someone was living in your Lounge..yes in your house.....would you deny knowing he lived there?
_______________________________
what you on about?
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
Just a question neon, what nationality was the Indian coach during their rankings topping run?
When was the last time an Indian actually coached the side?
posted on 26/9/11
"England have failed year after year to win anything. Someplayers whose skills were nurtured else where get into the side..and BOOM...they becoem a top side."
Engand have often had payers in their team in the past who's formative years in cricket were spent abroad. So that's no reason for Engand's recent succes.
+ 8/9 of Engand's team over the last 3 or 4 years learnt their cricket in England, and I reckon they've made just as much, and probably more, of a contribution as the 2/3 players whose youth was spent abroad.
Think the real reason for England becoming test no.1 are that we have better players (wherever they come from), a good organisation backing them up, and the fact that the standard of world cricket at the moment is, perhaps, not as high as it was 5-10 years ago.
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
Other nations should do the same.. Then they cant complain? or is it they are souly not interested in people from other backgrounds and born in differant nations to represent them? at least there are no boundries to play for England..
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
"What I was saying is England have been helped, massivily, by the SA youth setup...theres no doubting it"
Have they really?
Firstly, only 2 players in the current England test set-up have been through the SA youth system and, secondly, is what you learn in youth cricket really more important than what you learn during your professional career?
I'd say, probably not, and I'd argue that both KP and Trott have developed as cricketers due as much, if not more, to their time playing in English cricket, as they did due to their time in schoolboy cricket in SA.
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
"comment by neon1001uk (U6361) posted 4 minutes ago
Hoggy - KP averaged over 55 in his debut county season."
And hadn't, as far as I'm aware, averaged anything like that in SA, where he was regarded as a spin bowling lower order slogger. So it was the coaches at Notts who recognised where his true talent lay.
"Trott and Kieswetter both played for the SA under 19's. Troot played 3 tests for them and Kieswetter played in the 2006 world cup"
So?
Playing u19 cricket doesn't mean that you're ready for full internationals does it?
True, it probably means that you have some talent, but in most cases that talent has to be further developed before such players are ready for full recognition. In both Trott and Kieswetter's cases that further development has taken place in England, under the auspices of the English system and, IMO, is just as vital to where they are as cricketers today as their time in SA.
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/9/11
Neon
If you want to WUM go ahead.
Don't accuse others of so doing.
If you can't credit the English set-up for being at least as important in the development of KP, Trott and Kieswetter as SA youth systems, then you obviously don't understand much about the development of sportsmen.
posted on 26/9/11
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
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