I was laughing that you think that describes Fernandes.

Grealish is apparently on £100k a week. United could move on Lingard and still give him a pay rise. I think the issue would be the transfer fee more than the wages. Grealish would cost more, in my opinion. Especially if Villa stay up.

I was laughing that you think that describes Fernandes.

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Sure he only has a decent shot on him and not much else.

Might have meant Gedson.

comment by The Mane Man - WORLD CHAMPIONS-"Sadio, I’ll get him back don’t worry.” (U19731)
posted 24 minutes ago
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 33 minutes ago
Donny vd Beek is more a runner without the ball than a passer of the ball. He is the same type of player as Fernandes.
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Everybody here in Holland is speaking of him as a player who is not creative but more a finisher in the last third. He is not De Jong who can run with the ball and is a great passer.

Maybe he can adapt like Gini Gini Wijnaldum and play more as a deeper midfielder.
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He has played deeper for Ajax plenty of times. And his passing has been as important as his ball-carrying. He likes to look for the ball and release it early.

Might have meant Gedson.

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Na I was talking about a poster who'd said that about Bruno back in January when they hadn't a clue what type of player he was.

I've long said that if Pogba left, Donny van de Beek would be my preferred option. He can played either a CM or at ACM, is technically excellent, good passer, eye for a goal and works his socks off.

He'd be a more balanced and natural fit in a central midfield pairing than Pogba, even though I don't subscribe to the "Pogba can't play in a two" mantra to the extent that most seem to.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 24 minutes ago
I've long said that if Pogba left, Donny van de Beek would be my preferred option. He can played either a CM or at ACM, is technically excellent, good passer, eye for a goal and works his socks off.

He'd be a more balanced and natural fit in a central midfield pairing than Pogba, even though I don't subscribe to the "Pogba can't play in a two" mantra to the extent that most seem to.
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If we knew Ole was going to continue to stick with the double pivot, given the kind of side he’s building, I’d straight swap him for Pogba, tbh.

I've long said that if Pogba left, Donny van de Beek would be my preferred option. He can played either a CM or at ACM, is technically excellent, good passer, eye for a goal and works his socks off.

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Yeah but that does make sense if Pogba leaves although if Pogba left I'd still like a holding player as well.

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He'd be a more balanced and natural fit in a central midfield pairing than Pogba, even though I don't subscribe to the "Pogba can't play in a two" mantra to the extent that most seem to.

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Although I'm not overly keen on him playing there, I don't think it's as big a problem as gets made out either but the way I look at it, we have a player who thrives on the left of a three man midfield and in January we bought a player that does the same on the right so the logical thing to do would be to play with three in midfield and sign a quality holding player because we're not particularly strong in that position.

Update:

Juventus are also interested in Van de Beek but United's interest is a lot more concrete.

'The Van de Beek/Real Madrid transfer has become complicated. The corona-crisis has struck hard within the club. The entire squad had to hand in three full monthly salaries. There is no right moment to present a new €50M+ signing right now.

The lines between Man United & Ajax are clear. Van der Sar & Ed Woodward are close. Man United is still very satisfied with the settlement of the Daley Blind transfer both from when they signed him, and when Ajax signed him back. Man United are now the first alternative.'

TRS,

Yep agree with all of that, especially the poor about 4-3-3 seemingly suiting both Pogba & Fernandes.

Rosso,

I probably would two, though I object to this annoying term “double pivot” - I don’t know when or why these terms crept into football but it seems to me to be just a needlessly fancy way of saying “deep midfielder” or “two deeper midfielders”.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
TRS,

Yep agree with all of that, especially the poor about 4-3-3 seemingly suiting both Pogba & Fernandes.

Rosso,

I probably would two, though I object to this annoying term “double pivot” - I don’t know when or why these terms crept into football but it seems to me to be just a needlessly fancy way of saying “deep midfielder” or “two deeper midfielders”.
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The way Ole uses the approach, it’s two holding midfielders that sit flat, and work to bring the ball up the field/distribute to the forwards together.

It’s quicker to say double pivot than anything else, tbh, and the approach is important to how Ole’s United has played, with the attacking midfielder basically deployed as a fourth (or second if you like) out-and-out forward, without defensive duties in his own half.

United’s shape throughout the game, on and off the ball, changes loads throughout a game let alone a season. Carrick spoke about this recently, especially with regard to the centre of midfield.

McTominay was speaking recently about playing the box to box role and when to go and when to sit with his partner doing the same. Ole clearly doesn’t want specialist sitting midfielders in a restrictive 4231, which is why Matic doesn’t play much and we aren’t looking for one.

Pogba has his shortcomings, but he’s still our best central midfielder. Especially in a role that requires allrounders. And a team that struggles to score goals.

Would be a good signing and would improve the midfield in terms of quality. I don't know what that means in terms of the future of Pogba, because I don't know how van den Beek, Pogba and Bruno would all fit into a midfield trio because it does seem a little imbalanced to me.

comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 12 minutes ago
United’s shape throughout the game, on and off the ball, changes loads throughout a game let alone a season. Carrick spoke about this recently, especially with regard to the centre of midfield.

McTominay was speaking recently about playing the box to box role and when to go and when to sit with his partner doing the same. Ole clearly doesn’t want specialist sitting midfielders in a restrictive 4231, which is why Matic doesn’t play much and we aren’t looking for one.

Pogba has his shortcomings, but he’s still our best central midfielder. Especially in a role that requires allrounders. And a team that struggles to score goals.
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You can see McT and Fred doing it when they play together, and Fred and Matic did the same when McT was injured.

They’re flat, flat, flat until they get a sniff of the final third, then you’ll see one pull wide to create short passing options as the other one drops a little deeper and centrally.

Or you’ll see one take an opportunity to carry the ball to draw defenders out. Again, the other will then sit.

The two basically have identical roles and work as a unit.

I’d still refer to them as sitting or holding midfielders, personally, because although either can join the attack when we’ve had sustained possession, their starting positions are deep, they aren’t serial chance-creators, and shielding is a critical part of their game.

Maybe this’ll change if Pogba is to get a run as one of the two. Particularly as (as is the case with 80%+ of teams nowadays) we still focus the attack down the LHS of the field.

comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Would be a good signing and would improve the midfield in terms of quality. I don't know what that means in terms of the future of Pogba, because I don't know how van den Beek, Pogba and Bruno would all fit into a midfield trio because it does seem a little imbalanced to me.
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For me, the only way you could do that is by making Bruno part of the front line, as I’ve described above.

comment by rosso is done with this (U17054)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by JustYourAverageFan (U21016)
posted 1 minute ago
Would be a good signing and would improve the midfield in terms of quality. I don't know what that means in terms of the future of Pogba, because I don't know how van den Beek, Pogba and Bruno would all fit into a midfield trio because it does seem a little imbalanced to me.
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For me, the only way you could do that is by making Bruno part of the front line, as I’ve described above.
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Potentially, just feel like the midfield lacks a little bit of discipline unless Solskjear plans to go with a diamond midfield. Of course that depends on outgoings as well.

But it changes throughout the game. Match situations regularly dictate how the midfield will function, it’s far less disciplined playing at home to Norwich than it is playing away to City, because it doesn’t need to be.

Matic plays his role a completely different way than Fred does, for example. He’s actually the only disciplined midfielder we have in the squad, yet he doesn’t play that often because it’s not as important as you suggest.

Fred is actually the worst of the lot for this (contrary to popular belief that it’s Pogba). He plays like a poor man’s Kante, where he has to go and engage the opponent, and often leaves massive holes in the midfield. Pogba actually holds shape better off the ball in this regard.

We’ll be better off for having more than one creative player in the middle of the pitch because we struggle more to score goals than we do defending. That’s why Pogba will play.

I agree that Ole should change the shape of the midfield, but if he’s going to keep that set up and it’s a choice of starting Pogba or dropping him for McTominay, Matic and Fred, then it’s an easy choice. And I’ve no doubt that’s exactly what Ole will do, because even as crap as he is he clearly knows which is the best midfielder out of the three.

But it is quite important because its not like you are City or Liverpool where teams will park 11 men behind the ball and have little interest in opening up. Teams actually go at United because they know they have a chance to beat them, that's why you're 5th and you have dropped as many points as you have. Correct, it might not always be necessary, but what about a 10 minute spell in a game where the opposition has the ball and are putting United under pressure? Like you say, match situations change. Would you really count on a midfield of van de Beek, Pogba and Bruno to track midfield runners for example, or support full backs out wide when opposition full backs overlap, probably not no.

I agree to the extent that having one more creative midfield player will help to improve chances created and goals and that is what United need, its not like I'm saying van de Beek wouldn't improve the team, but in them games where you need a bit of balance, a bit of steel and adaptability, how would United cope then? The key to any successful team is balance, not just being good in one area. I don't see where that midfield will have the balance in my opinion.

Nobody said anything about playing all three of those players. And one of our biggest issues has been breaking down teams that have had no intention of attacking us. You’ve obviously not seen us play if you think teams don’t play like that against us. Teams that open up are usually the ones we have the most success against.

comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Nobody said anything about playing all three of those players. And one of our biggest issues has been breaking down teams that have had no intention of attacking us. You’ve obviously not seen us play if you think teams don’t play like that against us. Teams that open up are usually the ones we have the most success against.
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Right so the counter attacking teams such as Palace that you've lost to where you do need that balance and somebody who can prevent counter attacks, break up/slow down transitional play. You mean them sort of games?

The games where we struggle to create and score goals. Palace wasn’t a good example of systemic issues, though. We couldn’t finish in that game.

comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 40 seconds ago
The games where we struggle to create and score goals. Palace wasn’t a good example of systemic issues, though. We couldn’t finish in that game.
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So how does signing van de Beek solve that issue then?

Like I say, you need balance, you need to be able to create chances but not be susceptible to the counter attack and you need to be ruthless. Unfortunately, United just don't have that ruthless forward like what the top sides do.

I’m talking about Pogba, not VDB. But having more attacking depth will help anyway. Scoring, and creating, chances have been an issues for seven years.

Edwin van der Sar (Ajax CEO): "It’s clear that clubs like Real Madrid and #mufc are showing interest in Donny van de Beek."

Looks like this one has legs.