I think when you make individual comparisons you reduce the debate to whether clubs have actively avoided employing black managers because of the fact they are black.
There may be some examples of this but as has been outlined in the thread, I don't think that's the root cause here.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I think when you make individual comparisons you reduce the debate to whether clubs have actively avoided employing black managers because of the fact they are black.
There may be some examples of this but as has been outlined in the thread, I don't think that's the root cause here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very much this
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 23 minutes ago
I think this is the issue, no? Hughton has to look at taking a step back to the Championship to work his way back to the PL (as he has done twice before), whilst people like Bruce, Hughes, Pardew etc get rewarded for repeated failure by a stream of jobs at the top level.
yeah that's my point, why is he being constantly overlooked for these jobs?
unless he's decided against taking a few jobs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
theres a few white managers been like that too though? Neil Warnock? Took a few teams up but only got prem time with ones he had? Even then not long?
Me and dad discuss football daily and Houghton is an argumentative subject. He argues that his foorball is dull and negative, plus he is quite dreary. My counter argument always is, he's been promoted from the championship 3 times, that's 3 more than our beloved Leeds have managed.
I personally think we need to make sure we have managers from every background / race / religion / gender etc in equal proportion
If that means that your team doesn’t win or falls short it doesn’t matter but what does matter is being politically correct
This rule would then surely have to be applied to every profession so doctors, lawyers etc and it wouldn’t matter if you died on the operating table or went to jail as long as you were operated on your lawyer was from a minority group 👍
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
I think when you make individual comparisons you reduce the debate to whether clubs have actively avoided employing black managers because of the fact they are black.
There may be some examples of this but as has been outlined in the thread, I don't think that's the root cause here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, and I think this can be a big problem in the debate. There are often attempts to derail the discussion by saying "yeah but why is there outrage about this when there wasn't outrage about another situation that occurred".
It can be very depressing.
comment by Shaun M - All sick aren't we! (U9955)
posted 11 minutes ago
Me and dad discuss football daily and Houghton is an argumentative subject. He argues that his foorball is dull and negative, plus he is quite dreary. My counter argument always is, he's been promoted from the championship 3 times, that's 3 more than our beloved Leeds have managed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're both right.
Not sure why the OP thinks Sol Campbell didn't succeed. Took on mission impossible at Macclesfield and performed miracles to keep them up.
Paul Inces record at the MK Dons is top class.
Chris Powell took Charlton up.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink top Burton into League 1 for the first time in their history.
Hardly a picture of managers failing miserably.
On Chris Hughton, it is a case of do you want to stay up or do you want to play exciting football. Some clubs have expectations that are greater than what they are prepared or able to finance.
I'd imagine a rule similar to the Rooney Rule being introduced in the UK.
The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is an example of affirmative action, even though there is no hiring quota or hiring preference given to minorities, only an interviewing quota
Sorry haven't read all the comments(too may) but the as some people have said, the problem is the door isn't open to POC managers as much in this country. You need a higher volume getting opportunities in order to identify the good ones. If the door is closed you lose a lot of potentially good managers. Too often managers like other jobs end up being a boys club and about who you know rather than what you know. Unfortunately those networks are still segregated via race lines, whether intentional or just due to community forces. In the UK where racial divides seem less prominent, it will change over time but could take decades. so to accelerate the process we need to make a more active effort to open the door to POC. Considering the fact that most managers are former players and the number of black players in the English leagues over the last 3 decades, we really should have more top flight black managers.
comment by The Verbal Jouster (U11370)
posted 41 minutes ago
I personally think we need to make sure we have managers from every background / race / religion / gender etc in equal proportion
If that means that your team doesn’t win or falls short it doesn’t matter but what does matter is being politically correct
This rule would then surely have to be applied to every profession so doctors, lawyers etc and it wouldn’t matter if you died on the operating table or went to jail as long as you were operated on your lawyer was from a minority group 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're speaking against a simplistic argument that nobody on this thread is putting forward. Try engaging in the nuances unless you're keen to stay in an artificially binary world where you already know everything you think you need to know.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Frank Rijkaard is usually forgotten. Did alright as a manager didn't he?
In the PL a while back we also had Gullit and Jean Tigana whose team played some good football.
Obviously the PL is overrepresented by black players, but most are foreign and won't get the same opportunity as a British black player.
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rooney Rule
comment by The Verbal Jouster (U11370)
posted 57 minutes ago
I personally think we need to make sure we have managers from every background / race / religion / gender etc in equal proportion
If that means that your team doesn’t win or falls short it doesn’t matter but what does matter is being politically correct
This rule would then surely have to be applied to every profession so doctors, lawyers etc and it wouldn’t matter if you died on the operating table or went to jail as long as you were operated on your lawyer was from a minority group 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, let me ask you a few questions to see if I can help you understand how this would work.
Firstly, do you believe there's any scientific link between the colour of your skin and your ability to become a top football manager? (Or doctor, or solicitor for that matter?)
The process to get the Uefa badges in the UK seems to be allot more difficult than in other European nations, I read an article on it before ill see if I can find it, was really interesting.
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 6 minutes ago
Many of surgeons I work with are from a minority group or abroad and some of the best going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similarly, a lot of EU citizens who will retain the right to live and work in the UK after Brexit are leaving because they don't feel particularly valued or welcome in this country after years of scapegoating immigration. Typically, those who leave (and those who have been put off coming here in the next few years) will be those with the most in demand skills.
The government's new 'points based' immigration system will harm this country not just by undervaluing the importance of key workers who happen to not be paid very well, but also because it will trash the brand of the UK as an attractive, welcoming, tolerant country to those with specialist skills who have plenty of other options.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rooney Rule
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which has already been mentioned multiple times on this thread
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see coaching courses, referees courses and education in general made far more accessible to lower income households.
Too much money leaves the sport in the form of wages and agents fees, currently.
https://www.thesoccerstore.co.uk/blog/latest-news/is-the-cost-of-an-fa-coaching-badge-in-england-hurting-the-national-game/
Not the same article but a suggestion that cost is a problem in the UK (3k v 700 in Germany for example), that's a blocker right there although it impacts everyone who hasn't got the money to pay for it.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/dwight-yorke-sir-alex-ferguson-interview-man-united-rooney-rule-absolute-joke-a9555881.html
Sign in if you want to comment
Black managers
Page 4 of 13
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posted on 9/6/20
I think when you make individual comparisons you reduce the debate to whether clubs have actively avoided employing black managers because of the fact they are black.
There may be some examples of this but as has been outlined in the thread, I don't think that's the root cause here.
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I think when you make individual comparisons you reduce the debate to whether clubs have actively avoided employing black managers because of the fact they are black.
There may be some examples of this but as has been outlined in the thread, I don't think that's the root cause here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very much this
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Ghod#18 (U9390)
posted 23 minutes ago
I think this is the issue, no? Hughton has to look at taking a step back to the Championship to work his way back to the PL (as he has done twice before), whilst people like Bruce, Hughes, Pardew etc get rewarded for repeated failure by a stream of jobs at the top level.
yeah that's my point, why is he being constantly overlooked for these jobs?
unless he's decided against taking a few jobs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
theres a few white managers been like that too though? Neil Warnock? Took a few teams up but only got prem time with ones he had? Even then not long?
posted on 9/6/20
Me and dad discuss football daily and Houghton is an argumentative subject. He argues that his foorball is dull and negative, plus he is quite dreary. My counter argument always is, he's been promoted from the championship 3 times, that's 3 more than our beloved Leeds have managed.
posted on 9/6/20
I personally think we need to make sure we have managers from every background / race / religion / gender etc in equal proportion
If that means that your team doesn’t win or falls short it doesn’t matter but what does matter is being politically correct
This rule would then surely have to be applied to every profession so doctors, lawyers etc and it wouldn’t matter if you died on the operating table or went to jail as long as you were operated on your lawyer was from a minority group 👍
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
I think when you make individual comparisons you reduce the debate to whether clubs have actively avoided employing black managers because of the fact they are black.
There may be some examples of this but as has been outlined in the thread, I don't think that's the root cause here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, and I think this can be a big problem in the debate. There are often attempts to derail the discussion by saying "yeah but why is there outrage about this when there wasn't outrage about another situation that occurred".
It can be very depressing.
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Shaun M - All sick aren't we! (U9955)
posted 11 minutes ago
Me and dad discuss football daily and Houghton is an argumentative subject. He argues that his foorball is dull and negative, plus he is quite dreary. My counter argument always is, he's been promoted from the championship 3 times, that's 3 more than our beloved Leeds have managed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're both right.
posted on 9/6/20
Not sure why the OP thinks Sol Campbell didn't succeed. Took on mission impossible at Macclesfield and performed miracles to keep them up.
Paul Inces record at the MK Dons is top class.
Chris Powell took Charlton up.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink top Burton into League 1 for the first time in their history.
Hardly a picture of managers failing miserably.
posted on 9/6/20
On Chris Hughton, it is a case of do you want to stay up or do you want to play exciting football. Some clubs have expectations that are greater than what they are prepared or able to finance.
posted on 9/6/20
I'd imagine a rule similar to the Rooney Rule being introduced in the UK.
The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to interview ethnic-minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs. It is an example of affirmative action, even though there is no hiring quota or hiring preference given to minorities, only an interviewing quota
posted on 9/6/20
Sorry haven't read all the comments(too may) but the as some people have said, the problem is the door isn't open to POC managers as much in this country. You need a higher volume getting opportunities in order to identify the good ones. If the door is closed you lose a lot of potentially good managers. Too often managers like other jobs end up being a boys club and about who you know rather than what you know. Unfortunately those networks are still segregated via race lines, whether intentional or just due to community forces. In the UK where racial divides seem less prominent, it will change over time but could take decades. so to accelerate the process we need to make a more active effort to open the door to POC. Considering the fact that most managers are former players and the number of black players in the English leagues over the last 3 decades, we really should have more top flight black managers.
posted on 9/6/20
comment by The Verbal Jouster (U11370)
posted 41 minutes ago
I personally think we need to make sure we have managers from every background / race / religion / gender etc in equal proportion
If that means that your team doesn’t win or falls short it doesn’t matter but what does matter is being politically correct
This rule would then surely have to be applied to every profession so doctors, lawyers etc and it wouldn’t matter if you died on the operating table or went to jail as long as you were operated on your lawyer was from a minority group 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're speaking against a simplistic argument that nobody on this thread is putting forward. Try engaging in the nuances unless you're keen to stay in an artificially binary world where you already know everything you think you need to know.
posted on 9/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/6/20
Frank Rijkaard is usually forgotten. Did alright as a manager didn't he?
In the PL a while back we also had Gullit and Jean Tigana whose team played some good football.
Obviously the PL is overrepresented by black players, but most are foreign and won't get the same opportunity as a British black player.
posted on 9/6/20
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rooney Rule
posted on 9/6/20
comment by The Verbal Jouster (U11370)
posted 57 minutes ago
I personally think we need to make sure we have managers from every background / race / religion / gender etc in equal proportion
If that means that your team doesn’t win or falls short it doesn’t matter but what does matter is being politically correct
This rule would then surely have to be applied to every profession so doctors, lawyers etc and it wouldn’t matter if you died on the operating table or went to jail as long as you were operated on your lawyer was from a minority group 👍
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, let me ask you a few questions to see if I can help you understand how this would work.
Firstly, do you believe there's any scientific link between the colour of your skin and your ability to become a top football manager? (Or doctor, or solicitor for that matter?)
posted on 9/6/20
The process to get the Uefa badges in the UK seems to be allot more difficult than in other European nations, I read an article on it before ill see if I can find it, was really interesting.
posted on 9/6/20
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 6 minutes ago
Many of surgeons I work with are from a minority group or abroad and some of the best going.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similarly, a lot of EU citizens who will retain the right to live and work in the UK after Brexit are leaving because they don't feel particularly valued or welcome in this country after years of scapegoating immigration. Typically, those who leave (and those who have been put off coming here in the next few years) will be those with the most in demand skills.
The government's new 'points based' immigration system will harm this country not just by undervaluing the importance of key workers who happen to not be paid very well, but also because it will trash the brand of the UK as an attractive, welcoming, tolerant country to those with specialist skills who have plenty of other options.
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 54 seconds ago
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rooney Rule
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which has already been mentioned multiple times on this thread
posted on 9/6/20
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 5 minutes ago
So let’s try to be productive.
What are the solutions being put forward?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see coaching courses, referees courses and education in general made far more accessible to lower income households.
Too much money leaves the sport in the form of wages and agents fees, currently.
posted on 9/6/20
https://www.thesoccerstore.co.uk/blog/latest-news/is-the-cost-of-an-fa-coaching-badge-in-england-hurting-the-national-game/
Not the same article but a suggestion that cost is a problem in the UK (3k v 700 in Germany for example), that's a blocker right there although it impacts everyone who hasn't got the money to pay for it.
posted on 9/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/6/20
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/dwight-yorke-sir-alex-ferguson-interview-man-united-rooney-rule-absolute-joke-a9555881.html
Page 4 of 13
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