comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 45 seconds ago
Also shows the issue we have with a lack of quality in attack from our full backs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don’t see it with Dalot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree on Dalot.
We could do a lot worse than bringing in Max Aarons. Always looks good when I see him play and is only going to improve.
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 23 minutes ago
Why don’t you want us to play without width, rosso? Seems weird for a United fan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah fellas, I’m not saying I do.
I’m trying to find ways to get Pogba and Bruno, successfully, into the same side as Rashford.
Even if you add Sancho and play a front three of Rashford, Martial and Sancho with Pogba and Bruno behind, where does the width come from? You have exactly the same issue then as you would with Greenwood on the right, as you would with the diamond.
No you don’t. Rashford and Sancho play wide. Just because they come infield as well doesn’t mean they can’t provide width. We’d still need more from the full backs, but we need that however we play.
No you don’t. Rashford and Sancho play wide. Just because they come infield as well doesn’t mean they can’t provide width. We’d still need more from the full backs, but we need that however we play.
---------------------------------------------
I thought we played really well after it went 1-1. We should have scored 4 goals from the other chances we had. You can see why Norwich City struggle so much as they create so little and give away tons of chances. Honestly don’t get what game pundits were watching as we created so many chances in extra time and last 10 minutes of the 2nd half.
We just played in 2nd gear for 75 minutes.
The thing with Norwich City is they have good players being held back by an anti-football manager. Krul has made more saves against us than any other opponent he has faced. Its like as if he plays the game of his life against us and players below average against everyone else.
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 1 minute ago
I thought we played really well after it went 1-1. We should have scored 4 goals from the other chances we had. You can see why Norwich City struggle so much as they create so little and give away tons of chances. Honestly don’t get what game pundits were watching as we created so many chances in extra time and last 10 minutes of the 2nd half.
We just played in 2nd gear for 75 minutes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The pundits will always say the underdog was unlucky to lose tbf. The commentator claimed the red card changed the game, as if Norwich had been hard done by. They clearly weren't. Without the red card, we would have scored the winner in normal time from the incident that led to the red card!
I don't think we played particularly well though. Looked lazy and off the pace for long spells and only woke up when Pogba came on. Which shows that if we're only playing one of Pogba and Bruno, you need that guy to be on his game. Otherwise we're just reduced to long shots. The number of long shots today was embarrassing. Take it upon yourself to make outlets and make a killer pass. We've had the problem of lack of attacking ideas for a long time tbf
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
This is why I think we should be in for Grealish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The same Grealish who does eff all week in week out for Villa?
Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that’s just not true.
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 9 hours, 32 minutes ago
No you don’t. Rashford and Sancho play wide. Just because they come infield as well doesn’t mean they can’t provide width. We’d still need more from the full backs, but we need that however we play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rashford and Greenwood/Sancho can provide width in a diamond, as Lacazette and Fekir did at Lyon. Part of the benefit of that is that all of those three (five, in fact) excel at attacking the box from wide areas.
Lyon had Gourcuff where Bruno would play, attacking the central space between the strikers, and often gave Valbuena the same unmarkable free role we’d give Pogba.
I’m still failing to see, fundamentally and necessarily, what the difference is in terms of width.
Whether we go 4-2-3-1, 4-1-2-3, or with a diamond, we’re going to need attacking width from the fullbacks to support the wide forwards.
But it’s still not the same due to the shape of the team, and would lack a striker, something you continually complain about. Watch our games when we use this shape and it’s obviously more of a hindrance compared to when we having a front three.
Also what you’re saying about Lyon isn’t right anyway. Gourcuff didn’t play in the same team as Valbuena and when Fekir returned from his injury in Valbuena’s second season they played a 433. Lacazette was always a focal point of the attack through the middle as well.
And yes we need support from the full backs regardless. But if we went with the diamond, with our current players, it becomes an even bigger problem for us.
We need better full backs and wide players, not more midfielders trying to force the issue through the middle.
The game again showed why selling Lingard and Mata is an absolute priority. They are both poor, seeing Lingard poncing out of challenges time after time is infuriating. I’d much rather have seen a youngster in there.
Also I honestly don’t see a player in Dalot. He has never impressed me and I don’t quite know what he excels at. I’d rather promote Laird to the team personally
One thing I would say is how good Martial looks. He was superb when he came on yesterday and his link up play for a forward is fantastic
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
But it’s still not the same due to the shape of the team, and would lack a striker, something you continually complain about. Watch our games when we use this shape and it’s obviously more of a hindrance compared to when we having a front three.
Also what you’re saying about Lyon isn’t right anyway. Gourcuff didn’t play in the same team as Valbuena and when Fekir returned from his injury in Valbuena’s second season they played a 433. Lacazette was always a focal point of the attack through the middle as well.
And yes we need support from the full backs regardless. But if we went with the diamond, with our current players, it becomes an even bigger problem for us.
We need better full backs and wide players, not more midfielders trying to force the issue through the middle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I complain about the lack of a proper nine when we play a system that requires a proper nine.
You’re confusing completely what I’d *like* to see, given a couple of transfer windows and a coherent transfer policy, and what I would be doing as United manager given the tools presently at his disposal.
As you know, since before Klopp turned up at Liverpool, and before we signed Pogba, I’ve wanted to see a dynamic and expansive 4-3-3. We don’t have the players to play it, and we keep buying players and persisting with players who don’t suit it. So I don’t pretend we should try to make it work.
If it was the plan (if there is a plan), why would two successive managers insisted on playing Pogba in a two man pivot, why wouldn’t they have invested in a specialist DM, why would we have signed AWB or Sanchez or Bruno, why would we have persisted with both Martial and Rashford instead of cashing in on one, why wouldn’t we have gone after a right sided forward instead of continuing with a bunch of players suited to playing inside on the neck of the ten and helping overloading down the left...?
This is what I’m talking about with Lyon:
http://frenchfootballweekly.com/2015/10/29/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-for-hubert-fournier-and-lyon/
Fournier also played with Gourcuff though the middle of the split strikers and Valbuena in midfield roaming around.
I’m confused, it sounds like you are saying Gourcuff and Valbuena played in the same team? They didn’t.
They also sacked the manager two months after that article was written and went to a 433 under the new manager.
I’m still failing to see, fundamentally and necessarily, what the difference is in terms of width.
----------------------------------------------
How can you seriously not tell the difference between a front three with a lone CF and two wide forwards and two split strikers with somebody playing off of them?
---------------------------------------------
As you know, since before Klopp turned up at Liverpool, and before we signed Pogba, I’ve wanted to see a dynamic and expansive 4-3-3. We don’t have the players to play it, and we keep buying players and persisting with players who don’t suit it. So I don’t pretend we should try to make it work.
----------------------------------------------
You've continued to ignore the fact that Bruno played quite often on the right of a midfield three in a 4-3-3 at Sporting and that it was arguably his best position.
It's bull$hit saying he doesn't suit that system.
No matter what system or players we pick, Any team that sits back, We really do struggle to score. That’s down to the coaches and Ole. Brighton game will be exactly the same.
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 3 hours, 15 minutes ago
I’m confused, it sounds like you are saying Gourcuff and Valbuena played in the same team? They didn’t.
They also sacked the manager two months after that article was written and went to a 433 under the new manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m misremembering then. When did Valbuena join? That summer?
Fournier went that winter, but the season prior that diamond worked very well.
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I’m still failing to see, fundamentally and necessarily, what the difference is in terms of width.
----------------------------------------------
How can you seriously not tell the difference between a front three with a lone CF and two wide forwards and two split strikers with somebody playing off of them?
---------------------------------------------
As you know, since before Klopp turned up at Liverpool, and before we signed Pogba, I’ve wanted to see a dynamic and expansive 4-3-3. We don’t have the players to play it, and we keep buying players and persisting with players who don’t suit it. So I don’t pretend we should try to make it work.
----------------------------------------------
You've continued to ignore the fact that Bruno played quite often on the right of a midfield three in a 4-3-3 at Sporting and that it was arguably his best position.
It's bull$hit saying he doesn't suit that system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t ignored it. I just don’t think you get the best out of him playing box to box personally, and would rather have him up making trouble at the business end.
Pogba and Bruno behind a front three is fine against cannon fodder, but I don’t see it being effective against better sides without hangstringing at least one of the two.
He joined the summer he left. Basically the premise of your comparison is completely incorrect as those four players named didn’t play together. So basing the suitability of different players at United, based on a system that wasn’t used, is completely pointless.
You obsess too much over systems and suitability, without much evidence in the United team to support the idea that they’re more suitable. Because I don’t care what Lyon did, United are a worse team when we set up in a diamond formation or with a three at the back. Years of evidence to support it, which is why it’s not something we use often.
Also, why is it such a big issue that Pogba and Bruno will have to make some comprises against better teams? Every team’s top players have to do this, it’s not something we should worry too much about. Worrying too much about the opposition has been the biggest problem at this club for years now. It’s why we play such cowardly football.
Craving a perfectly balanced system and team isn’t going to happen, so why does it pain you so much to consider these players playing together?
You obsess too much over systems and suitability, without much evidence in the United team to support the idea that they’re more suitable. Because I don’t care what Lyon did, United are a worse team when we set up in a diamond formation or with a three at the back. Years of evidence to support it, which is why it’s not something we use often.
Also, why is it such a big issue that Pogba and Bruno will have to make some comprises against better teams? Every team’s top players have to do this, it’s not something we should worry too much about. Worrying too much about the opposition has been the biggest problem at this club for years now. It’s why we play such cowardly football.
Craving a perfectly balanced system and team isn’t going to happen, so why does it pain you so much to consider these players playing together?
----------------------------------------------
I obsess too much over systems, but a diamond *cannot* work because it *cannot* deliver width without attacking fullbacks
I’m joshing.
I just think in many ways we have a similar problem with Bruno and Pogba to the problem we have with Rashford and Martial, and the problem we had with Giggs and Sharpe, and the problem we had to an extent with Veron and Scholes: you just can’t get the very best out of both of them every week.
With Rashford and Martial, it’s because of where they’re both most effective, which is the same singular position in off the left.
With Bruno and Pogba, it’s because Pogba to be most effective needs to play in a three with two more disciplined midfielders and Bruno you want stationed in the final third.
Just my view, obviously, and I respect others, particularly as I recognise many disagree and I’m probably in a minority. The player that will have to prove me wrong is Pogba, of course, and we’ll see how things develop with him back in the two (assuming that’s how we start the vast majority of games).
On Ole and his 4-2—3-1, btw, if he is sticking to it like glue, and I expect him to, he has actually bought the right ten for his system in Bruno, because I think he’s deadly in the areas he’s being played in.
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Perfect Example
Page 3 of 4
posted on 27/6/20
*why do
posted on 27/6/20
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 36 minutes ago
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 45 seconds ago
Also shows the issue we have with a lack of quality in attack from our full backs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just don’t see it with Dalot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree on Dalot.
We could do a lot worse than bringing in Max Aarons. Always looks good when I see him play and is only going to improve.
posted on 27/6/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 23 minutes ago
Why don’t you want us to play without width, rosso? Seems weird for a United fan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah fellas, I’m not saying I do.
I’m trying to find ways to get Pogba and Bruno, successfully, into the same side as Rashford.
Even if you add Sancho and play a front three of Rashford, Martial and Sancho with Pogba and Bruno behind, where does the width come from? You have exactly the same issue then as you would with Greenwood on the right, as you would with the diamond.
posted on 27/6/20
No you don’t. Rashford and Sancho play wide. Just because they come infield as well doesn’t mean they can’t provide width. We’d still need more from the full backs, but we need that however we play.
posted on 27/6/20
No you don’t. Rashford and Sancho play wide. Just because they come infield as well doesn’t mean they can’t provide width. We’d still need more from the full backs, but we need that however we play.
---------------------------------------------
posted on 27/6/20
I thought we played really well after it went 1-1. We should have scored 4 goals from the other chances we had. You can see why Norwich City struggle so much as they create so little and give away tons of chances. Honestly don’t get what game pundits were watching as we created so many chances in extra time and last 10 minutes of the 2nd half.
We just played in 2nd gear for 75 minutes.
posted on 27/6/20
The thing with Norwich City is they have good players being held back by an anti-football manager. Krul has made more saves against us than any other opponent he has faced. Its like as if he plays the game of his life against us and players below average against everyone else.
posted on 27/6/20
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 1 minute ago
I thought we played really well after it went 1-1. We should have scored 4 goals from the other chances we had. You can see why Norwich City struggle so much as they create so little and give away tons of chances. Honestly don’t get what game pundits were watching as we created so many chances in extra time and last 10 minutes of the 2nd half.
We just played in 2nd gear for 75 minutes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The pundits will always say the underdog was unlucky to lose tbf. The commentator claimed the red card changed the game, as if Norwich had been hard done by. They clearly weren't. Without the red card, we would have scored the winner in normal time from the incident that led to the red card!
I don't think we played particularly well though. Looked lazy and off the pace for long spells and only woke up when Pogba came on. Which shows that if we're only playing one of Pogba and Bruno, you need that guy to be on his game. Otherwise we're just reduced to long shots. The number of long shots today was embarrassing. Take it upon yourself to make outlets and make a killer pass. We've had the problem of lack of attacking ideas for a long time tbf
posted on 28/6/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 24 minutes ago
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
This is why I think we should be in for Grealish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The same Grealish who does eff all week in week out for Villa?
Why?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well that’s just not true.
posted on 28/6/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 9 hours, 32 minutes ago
No you don’t. Rashford and Sancho play wide. Just because they come infield as well doesn’t mean they can’t provide width. We’d still need more from the full backs, but we need that however we play.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rashford and Greenwood/Sancho can provide width in a diamond, as Lacazette and Fekir did at Lyon. Part of the benefit of that is that all of those three (five, in fact) excel at attacking the box from wide areas.
Lyon had Gourcuff where Bruno would play, attacking the central space between the strikers, and often gave Valbuena the same unmarkable free role we’d give Pogba.
I’m still failing to see, fundamentally and necessarily, what the difference is in terms of width.
Whether we go 4-2-3-1, 4-1-2-3, or with a diamond, we’re going to need attacking width from the fullbacks to support the wide forwards.
posted on 28/6/20
But it’s still not the same due to the shape of the team, and would lack a striker, something you continually complain about. Watch our games when we use this shape and it’s obviously more of a hindrance compared to when we having a front three.
Also what you’re saying about Lyon isn’t right anyway. Gourcuff didn’t play in the same team as Valbuena and when Fekir returned from his injury in Valbuena’s second season they played a 433. Lacazette was always a focal point of the attack through the middle as well.
And yes we need support from the full backs regardless. But if we went with the diamond, with our current players, it becomes an even bigger problem for us.
We need better full backs and wide players, not more midfielders trying to force the issue through the middle.
posted on 28/6/20
The game again showed why selling Lingard and Mata is an absolute priority. They are both poor, seeing Lingard poncing out of challenges time after time is infuriating. I’d much rather have seen a youngster in there.
Also I honestly don’t see a player in Dalot. He has never impressed me and I don’t quite know what he excels at. I’d rather promote Laird to the team personally
One thing I would say is how good Martial looks. He was superb when he came on yesterday and his link up play for a forward is fantastic
posted on 28/6/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 39 minutes ago
But it’s still not the same due to the shape of the team, and would lack a striker, something you continually complain about. Watch our games when we use this shape and it’s obviously more of a hindrance compared to when we having a front three.
Also what you’re saying about Lyon isn’t right anyway. Gourcuff didn’t play in the same team as Valbuena and when Fekir returned from his injury in Valbuena’s second season they played a 433. Lacazette was always a focal point of the attack through the middle as well.
And yes we need support from the full backs regardless. But if we went with the diamond, with our current players, it becomes an even bigger problem for us.
We need better full backs and wide players, not more midfielders trying to force the issue through the middle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I complain about the lack of a proper nine when we play a system that requires a proper nine.
You’re confusing completely what I’d *like* to see, given a couple of transfer windows and a coherent transfer policy, and what I would be doing as United manager given the tools presently at his disposal.
As you know, since before Klopp turned up at Liverpool, and before we signed Pogba, I’ve wanted to see a dynamic and expansive 4-3-3. We don’t have the players to play it, and we keep buying players and persisting with players who don’t suit it. So I don’t pretend we should try to make it work.
If it was the plan (if there is a plan), why would two successive managers insisted on playing Pogba in a two man pivot, why wouldn’t they have invested in a specialist DM, why would we have signed AWB or Sanchez or Bruno, why would we have persisted with both Martial and Rashford instead of cashing in on one, why wouldn’t we have gone after a right sided forward instead of continuing with a bunch of players suited to playing inside on the neck of the ten and helping overloading down the left...?
posted on 28/6/20
This is what I’m talking about with Lyon:
http://frenchfootballweekly.com/2015/10/29/light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-for-hubert-fournier-and-lyon/
Fournier also played with Gourcuff though the middle of the split strikers and Valbuena in midfield roaming around.
posted on 28/6/20
I’m confused, it sounds like you are saying Gourcuff and Valbuena played in the same team? They didn’t.
They also sacked the manager two months after that article was written and went to a 433 under the new manager.
posted on 28/6/20
I’m still failing to see, fundamentally and necessarily, what the difference is in terms of width.
----------------------------------------------
How can you seriously not tell the difference between a front three with a lone CF and two wide forwards and two split strikers with somebody playing off of them?
---------------------------------------------
As you know, since before Klopp turned up at Liverpool, and before we signed Pogba, I’ve wanted to see a dynamic and expansive 4-3-3. We don’t have the players to play it, and we keep buying players and persisting with players who don’t suit it. So I don’t pretend we should try to make it work.
----------------------------------------------
You've continued to ignore the fact that Bruno played quite often on the right of a midfield three in a 4-3-3 at Sporting and that it was arguably his best position.
It's bull$hit saying he doesn't suit that system.
posted on 28/6/20
No matter what system or players we pick, Any team that sits back, We really do struggle to score. That’s down to the coaches and Ole. Brighton game will be exactly the same.
posted on 28/6/20
comment by Imran The King Khan (U10026)
posted 3 hours, 15 minutes ago
I’m confused, it sounds like you are saying Gourcuff and Valbuena played in the same team? They didn’t.
They also sacked the manager two months after that article was written and went to a 433 under the new manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m misremembering then. When did Valbuena join? That summer?
Fournier went that winter, but the season prior that diamond worked very well.
posted on 28/6/20
comment by The Red Side™ (U11275)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
I’m still failing to see, fundamentally and necessarily, what the difference is in terms of width.
----------------------------------------------
How can you seriously not tell the difference between a front three with a lone CF and two wide forwards and two split strikers with somebody playing off of them?
---------------------------------------------
As you know, since before Klopp turned up at Liverpool, and before we signed Pogba, I’ve wanted to see a dynamic and expansive 4-3-3. We don’t have the players to play it, and we keep buying players and persisting with players who don’t suit it. So I don’t pretend we should try to make it work.
----------------------------------------------
You've continued to ignore the fact that Bruno played quite often on the right of a midfield three in a 4-3-3 at Sporting and that it was arguably his best position.
It's bull$hit saying he doesn't suit that system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t ignored it. I just don’t think you get the best out of him playing box to box personally, and would rather have him up making trouble at the business end.
Pogba and Bruno behind a front three is fine against cannon fodder, but I don’t see it being effective against better sides without hangstringing at least one of the two.
posted on 28/6/20
He joined the summer he left. Basically the premise of your comparison is completely incorrect as those four players named didn’t play together. So basing the suitability of different players at United, based on a system that wasn’t used, is completely pointless.
You obsess too much over systems and suitability, without much evidence in the United team to support the idea that they’re more suitable. Because I don’t care what Lyon did, United are a worse team when we set up in a diamond formation or with a three at the back. Years of evidence to support it, which is why it’s not something we use often.
Also, why is it such a big issue that Pogba and Bruno will have to make some comprises against better teams? Every team’s top players have to do this, it’s not something we should worry too much about. Worrying too much about the opposition has been the biggest problem at this club for years now. It’s why we play such cowardly football.
Craving a perfectly balanced system and team isn’t going to happen, so why does it pain you so much to consider these players playing together?
posted on 28/6/20
You obsess too much over systems and suitability, without much evidence in the United team to support the idea that they’re more suitable. Because I don’t care what Lyon did, United are a worse team when we set up in a diamond formation or with a three at the back. Years of evidence to support it, which is why it’s not something we use often.
Also, why is it such a big issue that Pogba and Bruno will have to make some comprises against better teams? Every team’s top players have to do this, it’s not something we should worry too much about. Worrying too much about the opposition has been the biggest problem at this club for years now. It’s why we play such cowardly football.
Craving a perfectly balanced system and team isn’t going to happen, so why does it pain you so much to consider these players playing together?
----------------------------------------------
posted on 28/6/20
I obsess too much over systems, but a diamond *cannot* work because it *cannot* deliver width without attacking fullbacks
posted on 28/6/20
That’s not what I said.
posted on 28/6/20
I’m joshing.
I just think in many ways we have a similar problem with Bruno and Pogba to the problem we have with Rashford and Martial, and the problem we had with Giggs and Sharpe, and the problem we had to an extent with Veron and Scholes: you just can’t get the very best out of both of them every week.
With Rashford and Martial, it’s because of where they’re both most effective, which is the same singular position in off the left.
With Bruno and Pogba, it’s because Pogba to be most effective needs to play in a three with two more disciplined midfielders and Bruno you want stationed in the final third.
Just my view, obviously, and I respect others, particularly as I recognise many disagree and I’m probably in a minority. The player that will have to prove me wrong is Pogba, of course, and we’ll see how things develop with him back in the two (assuming that’s how we start the vast majority of games).
posted on 28/6/20
On Ole and his 4-2—3-1, btw, if he is sticking to it like glue, and I expect him to, he has actually bought the right ten for his system in Bruno, because I think he’s deadly in the areas he’s being played in.
Page 3 of 4