I prefer the scattergun approach tbh.

comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
I prefer the scattergun approach tbh.
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You would with the amount of bollox you spread about.

Unless Pep changes from playing with such a high line then I doubt we will ever have a tight enough defence
Only twice this season we’ve had a 1-0 win,we just don’t see out these types of games where the defence comes under a bit of pressure
Ederson getting the golden gloves tends to mask it I think,how much did he have to do in the 12 games we scored 4 or more

I would be much happier to see us playing 3 at the back with 2 wingbacks,I think we would be much less prone to the kick & rush tactic the likes of Liverpool & Leicester use

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 28 minutes ago
comment by Boris 'Inky’ Gibson (U5901)
posted 2 minutes ago
I prefer the scattergun approach tbh.
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You would with the amount of bollox you spread about.
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comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
gratedbean (U4885)

Bit generous calling him homegrown isn't it?

I agree with you to an extent about Pep, but it does leave him open to criticism if he can't work with all these top whack signings you're making.

He's a world class coach but it does feel sometimes as if he can only work with the very best individuals to make them better... he struggles with average players.
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Probably is generous but I’m not going to split hairs over it.

As for him not being able to work with anyone other than the very best, not sure I agree. Delph and Zinchenko both had exceptional seasons at lb and neither are the very best. I think Stones has his own off the field problems, other than that I wouldn’t say there is anyone he hasn’t been able to work with as such?

He even made Kolarov look a decent centre back for a while 😂

I think it’s more view the defence as much as part of the attack than just in a traditional aspect. We will concede through the high line, mostly the mistake has happened before it’s got to the defence though when that happens.

Guardiolas system, it’s a different skill set to the traditional defender and can be difficult to assess. There’s plenty of good defenders that wouldn’t look good for us, particularly this season when we’ve had even less midfield protection than usual.

Where do people see Ake fitting in?

Back up to Laporte?
In a back 3?
In an unbalanced pair with Laporte?

On the average players bit, the levels Guardiola is wanting for us is dependent on very good players. The system is too. Ultimately, any team wanting to be at the top is though.

It doesn’t mean that he couldn’t train average players to get better, his background is youth development, it’s just that the levels of play he is after and is being tasked with trying to do is more about making good and great players even better.

He’s trying to make Michelin level food, he’s not going to then use the ingredients of a Big Mac to do it if he doesn’t have to.

Too much is made of our 'defensive frailties'.

We conceded 2 goals more than Liverpool last season, 1 goal more the year before and had the best defence the year before that.

This covers a period when we've scored over 300 league goals.

comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
On the average players bit, the levels Guardiola is wanting for us is dependent on very good players. The system is too. Ultimately, any team wanting to be at the top is though.

It doesn’t mean that he couldn’t train average players to get better, his background is youth development, it’s just that the levels of play he is after and is being tasked with trying to do is more about making good and great players even better.

He’s trying to make Michelin level food, he’s not going to then use the ingredients of a Big Mac to do it if he doesn’t have to.
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That’s the point people often make I don’t get really. You can’t tell me with the encyclopaedic knowledge of football he has that if he took on a group of non league players he would be incapable of improving any of them

He’s still sharing all his coaching methods with La Masia, that’s how he gets his main fill for the development side of things.

That’s almost as bad as us spending about half a billion on midfielders and attackers since Fergie left and - until 8 months ago - struggling for goals and creativity for over half a decade.

comment by gratedbean (U4885)
posted 1 hour, 29 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 35 minutes ago
gratedbean (U4885)

Bit generous calling him homegrown isn't it?

I agree with you to an extent about Pep, but it does leave him open to criticism if he can't work with all these top whack signings you're making.

He's a world class coach but it does feel sometimes as if he can only work with the very best individuals to make them better... he struggles with average players.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Probably is generous but I’m not going to split hairs over it.

As for him not being able to work with anyone other than the very best, not sure I agree. Delph and Zinchenko both had exceptional seasons at lb and neither are the very best. I think Stones has his own off the field problems, other than that I wouldn’t say there is anyone he hasn’t been able to work with as such?
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Exceptional?

Not sure about that.

And presumably we can say he couldn’t work with the defence he inherited, because he got rid of them all?

Not intending to have a massive dig at him, it’s more just a bit of a poke.

It’s nowhere near as bad as that Lambeau, because of the success that each club has had during the period you mention. City’s spending, however much anyone wishes to criticise it, has produced results. United on the other hand, have, since Ferguson retired, regressed from the successful team it used to be, despite the money that has been spent during that time.

In regards to this thread, I feel people are losing sight of the Success that City have had. Looking at a total figure spent on defence in isolation while ignoring what City have actually achieved.

The narrative is that City’s defence isn’t very good (or rather isn’t what it should be given the money spent on it. But that simply isn’t the case. City’s defence has worked out fine, better than most other teams considering the part it has played in our successes over the past few years.

Can it be improved? Yes. Players get older, the demands of the game change, some signings don’t work out as expected. Happens to every club. How you deal with that is the important part. Stand still? Or always seek ways in which to improve? Accept that a signing hasn’t worked out, or be dogmatic and not seek a change?

The amount spent is also a misnomer when it is used as something in which to criticise a manager. Seeing as it is not the manager who has ever set the value for any transfer that takes place.

And presumably we can say he couldn’t work with the defence he inherited, because he got rid of them all?

————————

City’s defence for the 2015-16 season (the season before Pep took charge) was:

Sagna - 33 years old
Zabaleta - 31
Kolarov - 30
Clichy - 30
Demichelis - 35
Mangala - 25
Otamendi - 28
Kompany - 30

Kompany wasn’t got rid of. Otamendi is still there. The only other player under 30 from that defence was Mangala, and he was rubbish!!!

Of course Pep had to change that defence!!

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 2 minutes ago
And presumably we can say he couldn’t work with the defence he inherited, because he got rid of them all?

————————

City’s defence for the 2015-16 season (the season before Pep took charge) was:

Sagna - 33 years old
Zabaleta - 31
Kolarov - 30
Clichy - 30
Demichelis - 35
Mangala - 25
Otamendi - 28
Kompany - 30

Kompany wasn’t got rid of. Otamendi is still there. The only other player under 30 from that defence was Mangala, and he was rubbish!!!

Of course Pep had to change that defence!!
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Yeh, fair point.

But Pep doesn’t really have a track record of working with players that haven’t cost a fortune, does he?

Doesn’t really matter, but the defence expenditure does stand out.

Wouldn’t it be nice if he worked with a youth prospect or bought a young talent for a low fee?

Well, I like it when United managers do that anyway.

That would always be nice.

I don’t see that as a criticism of Pep however - after all he has done that at Bayern and Barcelona.

I think that is more a criticism of City’s approach overall. How many youth players have really been given a chance at City since the takeover? A handful in 10 years? At best.

The academy is producing players, but I can’t help but feel the club see them as a cash cow first. Not given a chance because the club is able to buy players, and if those signings don’t work out, go out and buy again. It does irk me to be honest, especially as these past few weeks alone it looks like several promising youngsters are on their way out.

Yeh that’s fair enough, though I do feel that sometimes City fans play down Pep’s influence at the club.

Let’s be honest, if he wanted to work with more youngsters in the first team, he could.

I do hope that the emergence of Foden will be a turning point. It’s a shame that Eric Garcia has rejected a new contract, seemingly wanting to return to Barcelona. But What happens with Foden next season will be crucial to how the other young players view their future. And also how the club hopefully starts to realise that youngsters can have value to the first team as opposed to being sold off (with clauses that can make the club money)

If Foden isn’t an integral part next season, then I feel that many other youngsters will look elsewhere.

Ironically, it’s been reported that Sancho wanted out because City wanted Sanchez. United got Sanchez, City still lost Sancho, and now Sancho could be heading to United!!!

comment by RipleysCat (U1862)
posted 2 minutes ago
I do hope that the emergence of Foden will be a turning point. It’s a shame that Eric Garcia has rejected a new contract, seemingly wanting to return to Barcelona. But What happens with Foden next season will be crucial to how the other young players view their future. And also how the club hopefully starts to realise that youngsters can have value to the first team as opposed to being sold off (with clauses that can make the club money)

If Foden isn’t an integral part next season, then I feel that many other youngsters will look elsewhere.

Ironically, it’s been reported that Sancho wanted out because City wanted Sanchez. United got Sanchez, City still lost Sancho, and now Sancho could be heading to United!!!
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Haha, it’s a funny old world.

Nice to hear an honest view on it.

I suppose the other big unknown is when Pep calls it a day and who replaces him.

Appreciate what you say about the club but still believe the manager largely dictates policy on this.

We've used the Continental system for a number of years where the manager indicates what position needs filling and the DoF identifies the players.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
Yeh that’s fair enough, though I do feel that sometimes City fans play down Pep’s influence at the club.

Let’s be honest, if he wanted to work with more youngsters in the first team, he could.
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I think playing down his influence is probably a counter balance of rival fans often overplaying what he is there to actually do.

I really like the look of Chelsea at the moment, think they’ve got a great mix of youth and recruitment and I’d like City to have a better balance of that. It often seems like the stakes are too high for us though, there is a desire at the club to compete to win every competition we enter, and when we have squad players earning top dollar, although he could suddenly start playing youngsters, it’s never going to happen really is it.

“Doesn’t really matter, but the defence expenditure does stand out“

Course it does. They’ve spent enough on defenders recently to have made every season ticket holder a millionaire. I’m not oblivious to it! The defence has been solid though, as mentioned virtually as tight as Liverpool’s much praised back 5 last season. I think there has been a lot going on this year that has affected them though, key injury, nobody claiming lb, and off the pitch distractiond

With Garcia going, I’m sure there’ll be another one to come in too.

That’s the risk with bringing in European players to the academy