What a signing that would be for Villa.
A real statement to go an take Arsenal's no1 off them.
Oh come on. Can't believe how many Arsenal fans are saying he is better than Leno. He was keeper for like 15 games and based on that you say he is better than Leno. It could be good run of form, Leno proved he can be on top level whole season. I'm not saying Martinez is bad, I also think he is good, but to say better than Leno based on few games is ridiculous.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Aubameyang FC (If he goes, I go) (U3245)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 3 minutes ago
Oh come on. Can't believe how many Arsenal fans are saying he is better than Leno. He was keeper for like 15 games and based on that you say he is better than Leno. It could be good run of form, Leno proved he can be on top level whole season. I'm not saying Martinez is bad, I also think he is good, but to say better than Leno based on few games is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but the fact is he has been performing better than Leno. And in those 15 games has done pretty much NOTHING wrong. Leno also cost us in the Europa with a rather shocking error.
What does that say to Leno. Hey no matter how badly you play, and how good your backup is, you will always be No1...
-----------------------------------------
Of course not, but Martinez needs to play more games than just 15 to say he is better or worse.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
If I was Auba and this deal went through. It'd be enough to stop me from signing. Selling him to pander to a younger less experienced/developed keeper who has never produced the 15 game form run that Emi is currently in. Is not only damaging my chances of CL qualification and possible Euro cup. I'd read it as a clear signal that this club was not at all serious about strengthening this team. Because it's owner is blatantly not going to give it any money so it CAN'T spend anyway. Despite the, numerous worthless, lying assurances I was being given, that if I re-signed, top players would be brought in.
I can't see that any player could see this happen along with AMN listed also. Then believe this club's ownership has any intent of investing enough in this team for me to win a title in the next 2-3 years.
Emi is negotiating a new contract. So ignore what goes on in the media while that goes on. Both sides will be at it trying to pretend how much the player is in demand. etc.
Seen enough of Emi to suggest he is a better keeper than Leno.
Would be madness to sell
I can see all of you slating him when his form drops a little, which has to happen eventually, and then all you will be saying how Leno is better.
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 35 minutes ago
I can see all of you slating him when his form drops a little, which has to happen eventually, and then all you will be saying how Leno is better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That might be the case but as it stands, Emi starts over Leno
We gave some super reactionary fans on this board. Emi is a fantastic keeper. However, he has not played that long to be labeled as better than Leno. If he were that great, he would have dislodged an aging Cech and we would not have had to spend money on Leno.
Also, Emi has had the benefit of coming in after quarantine. Into a system that is infinitely better than the shambles under Emery. Do you lot remember how we would constantly face 20-30 shots against team like watford??? Relegated Watford!! Do you remember how many times Leno earned us a draw or kept it respectable? Without his heroics (he was asked to do more than any other goalie in the league last season I bet) we would have been bottom 8 without a doubt.
So until Emi has proven himself...consistently...no one should be saying he is better than Leno.
The positive is that we could have either in goal and no fan would bat an eyelid. The days of Almunia in goal are gone.
As good as Emi is(and yes I rate him better than Leno), if selling him with others can get Partey and Aouar, then I am all for it.
The area of our project that desperately needs sorting out is the middle of the pack.
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 4 hours, 7 minutes ago
I can see all of you slating him when his form drops a little, which has to happen eventually, and then all you will be saying how Leno is better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In context of this debate, you need to think "Starting option," as opposed to "keeper." When you're throwing the word "better" around. You're caught up in Leno's raw abilities and talent. The areas he does trump Emi. Problem is for this team right now, Emi's by far superior presence, experience and command of the defence, is what is most needed from the starting keeper.
All Leno's talent, counts for nothing in that area. He has zero presence and cannot direct the defenders in front of him. If/when he can do that as well as Emi, he'll become good enough to be pushing world No1. But for now, with us bedding in new defenders especially. Choice has to be Emi all the way. Putting Leno behind tinkered with back lines and new players, whilst he's hopeless at marshalling a defence, is just asking to concede a bag of goals we don't have to.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 4 hours, 55 minutes ago
Emi is negotiating a new contract. So ignore what goes on in the media while that goes on. Both sides will be at it trying to pretend how much the player is in demand. etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I thought. He and AMN offered new ones. Never know with the cheapskate fc way we're going this window. I don't trust the club hierarchy as far as I could throw it right now. Trying not to pay any attention until the window shuts. Will look at the team and rant about the tight owner, then.
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 7 hours, 8 minutes ago
Oh come on. Can't believe how many Arsenal fans are saying he is better than Leno. He was keeper for like 15 games and based on that you say he is better than Leno. It could be good run of form, Leno proved he can be on top level whole season. I'm not saying Martinez is bad, I also think he is good, but to say better than Leno based on few games is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In those 15 games he has performed at a far higher level than Leno has
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 4 hours, 55 minutes ago
Emi is negotiating a new contract. So ignore what goes on in the media while that goes on. Both sides will be at it trying to pretend how much the player is in demand. etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I thought. He and AMN offered new ones. Never know with the cheapskate fc way we're going this window. I don't trust the club hierarchy as far as I could throw it right now. Trying not to pay any attention until the window shuts. Will look at the team and rant about the tightowner, then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what hierarchy you refer to. Its Edu and Arteta who decide whats a reasonable wage these days.
It's a tough one because his latest run of form would probably put him above Leno for me, but can he keep it up? Too early to tell.
We know what Leno offers consistently and there's no value having two valuable goalies when we can only play one and our midfield is a mess.
If we can get 20m, it's worth selling unfortunately
Well Leno is not an unknown quantity even if you think Emi's end of season was insufficient for him to be first choice. And Leno has made a lot of mistakes. Great shot stopper but absolutely lacking in distribution and in the air. So why not sell him? Should get a higher fee for a German International keeper.
I didn't say Leno was an unknown quantity.
I actually have a feeling that this might just be Martinez' character and level now, so personally I'd rather keep him - but I can see why others would think he's the logical choice of the two to get rid of. At this point I'm happy to trust what Arteta and the GK coaches are seeing day to day.
People keep saying Emi has only done it for about 15 games, but he played 23 in total last season and 19 in the season before for Reading that won him a lot of accolades and earned him his squad place this season. He did enough at reading for Emery to tell him he could fight for the no. 1 spot this season.
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 9 hours, 54 minutes ago
We gave some super reactionary fans on this board. Emi is a fantastic keeper. However, he has not played that long to be labeled as better than Leno. If he were that great, he would have dislodged an aging Cech and we would not have had to spend money on Leno.
Also, Emi has had the benefit of coming in after quarantine. Into a system that is infinitely better than the shambles under Emery. Do you lot remember how we would constantly face 20-30 shots against team like watford??? Relegated Watford!! Do you remember how many times Leno earned us a draw or kept it respectable? Without his heroics (he was asked to do more than any other goalie in the league last season I bet) we would have been bottom 8 without a doubt.
So until Emi has proven himself...consistently...no one should be saying he is better than Leno.
The positive is that we could have either in goal and no fan would bat an eyelid. The days of Almunia in goal are gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When Leno comes back in I expect to go back to the 20-30 shots a game. Emi is good at reading the game and getting what he wants from his defenders. Thats a massive part of his game. If you compare them on shot stopping only Leno will win. If you compare them on the full range of what a good gk should do Emi wins it.
Following from what Wonky said, Emi seems to be a better leader in general, he seems to have the right mindset.
Leno seems too passive for me. I just feel we need more of that energy in our team, we don't have enough players like.
Also Emi worked his socks off preparing during quarantine just in case if there was an opportunity, even his wife asked him why he was working so hard when he's not going to get picked ahead of Leno, then low and behold Leno got injured he slotted in straight away.
It's attitudes like that we need in the team.
comment by TBaggerin (U11806)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
I didn't say Leno was an unknown quantity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I know. I understood your point. But what I was talking about was our alternative. It seems obvious to me that when an agent uses the term 'no.1 choice' what he really means is getting the wages of a no.1. Thats understandable. But we cannot afford two keepers on wages of a no.1 while we are out of the Champions League.
So its a stark choice of Leno or Emi. Now even if I accept your point that we haven't seen enough of Emi (though I personally think we have seen enough when a Keeper wins you a cup), we do know what Leno can do. And for me he is lacking in quite a few attributes. I have never been quite sure on Leno especially in the air and commanding the box. Now if you accept that Leno might not be what we need, it would be better in my opinion in taking a chance on Emi and selling Leno. Leno has very good potential and is well regarded in Germany. So I would think we can get more money for him than Emi.
But is he a better goalie than Heaton?
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by TBaggerin (U11806)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
I didn't say Leno was an unknown quantity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I know. I understood your point. But what I was talking about was our alternative. It seems obvious to me that when an agent uses the term 'no.1 choice' what he really means is getting the wages of a no.1. Thats understandable. But we cannot afford two keepers on wages of a no.1 while we are out of the Champions League.
So its a stark choice of Leno or Emi. Now even if I accept your point that we haven't seen enough of Emi (though I personally think we have seen enough when a Keeper wins you a cup), we do know what Leno can do. And for me he is lacking in quite a few attributes. I have never been quite sure on Leno especially in the air and commanding the box. Now if you accept that Leno might not be what we need, it would be better in my opinion in taking a chance on Emi and selling Leno. Leno has very good potential and is well regarded in Germany. So I would think we can get more money for him than Emi.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course sellig Leno would make financial sense. Emi is on £20k a wek, Leno £100k. We could probably get £5-10m more selling Leno. Offer Emi £50-60k a week, sell Leno and it gives us an extra £5-10m cash and £40-50k a week is salary savings.
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Mistake to sell Emi
Page 1 of 2
posted on 8/9/20
What a signing that would be for Villa.
A real statement to go an take Arsenal's no1 off them.
posted on 8/9/20
Oh come on. Can't believe how many Arsenal fans are saying he is better than Leno. He was keeper for like 15 games and based on that you say he is better than Leno. It could be good run of form, Leno proved he can be on top level whole season. I'm not saying Martinez is bad, I also think he is good, but to say better than Leno based on few games is ridiculous.
posted on 8/9/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/9/20
comment by Aubameyang FC (If he goes, I go) (U3245)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 3 minutes ago
Oh come on. Can't believe how many Arsenal fans are saying he is better than Leno. He was keeper for like 15 games and based on that you say he is better than Leno. It could be good run of form, Leno proved he can be on top level whole season. I'm not saying Martinez is bad, I also think he is good, but to say better than Leno based on few games is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
but the fact is he has been performing better than Leno. And in those 15 games has done pretty much NOTHING wrong. Leno also cost us in the Europa with a rather shocking error.
What does that say to Leno. Hey no matter how badly you play, and how good your backup is, you will always be No1...
-----------------------------------------
Of course not, but Martinez needs to play more games than just 15 to say he is better or worse.
posted on 8/9/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 8/9/20
If I was Auba and this deal went through. It'd be enough to stop me from signing. Selling him to pander to a younger less experienced/developed keeper who has never produced the 15 game form run that Emi is currently in. Is not only damaging my chances of CL qualification and possible Euro cup. I'd read it as a clear signal that this club was not at all serious about strengthening this team. Because it's owner is blatantly not going to give it any money so it CAN'T spend anyway. Despite the, numerous worthless, lying assurances I was being given, that if I re-signed, top players would be brought in.
I can't see that any player could see this happen along with AMN listed also. Then believe this club's ownership has any intent of investing enough in this team for me to win a title in the next 2-3 years.
posted on 8/9/20
Emi is negotiating a new contract. So ignore what goes on in the media while that goes on. Both sides will be at it trying to pretend how much the player is in demand. etc.
posted on 8/9/20
Seen enough of Emi to suggest he is a better keeper than Leno.
Would be madness to sell
posted on 8/9/20
I can see all of you slating him when his form drops a little, which has to happen eventually, and then all you will be saying how Leno is better.
posted on 8/9/20
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 35 minutes ago
I can see all of you slating him when his form drops a little, which has to happen eventually, and then all you will be saying how Leno is better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That might be the case but as it stands, Emi starts over Leno
posted on 8/9/20
We gave some super reactionary fans on this board. Emi is a fantastic keeper. However, he has not played that long to be labeled as better than Leno. If he were that great, he would have dislodged an aging Cech and we would not have had to spend money on Leno.
Also, Emi has had the benefit of coming in after quarantine. Into a system that is infinitely better than the shambles under Emery. Do you lot remember how we would constantly face 20-30 shots against team like watford??? Relegated Watford!! Do you remember how many times Leno earned us a draw or kept it respectable? Without his heroics (he was asked to do more than any other goalie in the league last season I bet) we would have been bottom 8 without a doubt.
So until Emi has proven himself...consistently...no one should be saying he is better than Leno.
The positive is that we could have either in goal and no fan would bat an eyelid. The days of Almunia in goal are gone.
posted on 8/9/20
As good as Emi is(and yes I rate him better than Leno), if selling him with others can get Partey and Aouar, then I am all for it.
The area of our project that desperately needs sorting out is the middle of the pack.
posted on 8/9/20
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 4 hours, 7 minutes ago
I can see all of you slating him when his form drops a little, which has to happen eventually, and then all you will be saying how Leno is better.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In context of this debate, you need to think "Starting option," as opposed to "keeper." When you're throwing the word "better" around. You're caught up in Leno's raw abilities and talent. The areas he does trump Emi. Problem is for this team right now, Emi's by far superior presence, experience and command of the defence, is what is most needed from the starting keeper.
All Leno's talent, counts for nothing in that area. He has zero presence and cannot direct the defenders in front of him. If/when he can do that as well as Emi, he'll become good enough to be pushing world No1. But for now, with us bedding in new defenders especially. Choice has to be Emi all the way. Putting Leno behind tinkered with back lines and new players, whilst he's hopeless at marshalling a defence, is just asking to concede a bag of goals we don't have to.
posted on 8/9/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 4 hours, 55 minutes ago
Emi is negotiating a new contract. So ignore what goes on in the media while that goes on. Both sides will be at it trying to pretend how much the player is in demand. etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I thought. He and AMN offered new ones. Never know with the cheapskate fc way we're going this window. I don't trust the club hierarchy as far as I could throw it right now. Trying not to pay any attention until the window shuts. Will look at the team and rant about the tight owner, then.
posted on 8/9/20
comment by 5-2 (U10698)
posted 7 hours, 8 minutes ago
Oh come on. Can't believe how many Arsenal fans are saying he is better than Leno. He was keeper for like 15 games and based on that you say he is better than Leno. It could be good run of form, Leno proved he can be on top level whole season. I'm not saying Martinez is bad, I also think he is good, but to say better than Leno based on few games is ridiculous.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In those 15 games he has performed at a far higher level than Leno has
posted on 8/9/20
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 35 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 4 hours, 55 minutes ago
Emi is negotiating a new contract. So ignore what goes on in the media while that goes on. Both sides will be at it trying to pretend how much the player is in demand. etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what I thought. He and AMN offered new ones. Never know with the cheapskate fc way we're going this window. I don't trust the club hierarchy as far as I could throw it right now. Trying not to pay any attention until the window shuts. Will look at the team and rant about the tightowner, then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure what hierarchy you refer to. Its Edu and Arteta who decide whats a reasonable wage these days.
posted on 8/9/20
It's a tough one because his latest run of form would probably put him above Leno for me, but can he keep it up? Too early to tell.
We know what Leno offers consistently and there's no value having two valuable goalies when we can only play one and our midfield is a mess.
If we can get 20m, it's worth selling unfortunately
posted on 8/9/20
Well Leno is not an unknown quantity even if you think Emi's end of season was insufficient for him to be first choice. And Leno has made a lot of mistakes. Great shot stopper but absolutely lacking in distribution and in the air. So why not sell him? Should get a higher fee for a German International keeper.
posted on 8/9/20
I didn't say Leno was an unknown quantity.
I actually have a feeling that this might just be Martinez' character and level now, so personally I'd rather keep him - but I can see why others would think he's the logical choice of the two to get rid of. At this point I'm happy to trust what Arteta and the GK coaches are seeing day to day.
posted on 8/9/20
People keep saying Emi has only done it for about 15 games, but he played 23 in total last season and 19 in the season before for Reading that won him a lot of accolades and earned him his squad place this season. He did enough at reading for Emery to tell him he could fight for the no. 1 spot this season.
posted on 8/9/20
comment by MaineGunner (U10130)
posted 9 hours, 54 minutes ago
We gave some super reactionary fans on this board. Emi is a fantastic keeper. However, he has not played that long to be labeled as better than Leno. If he were that great, he would have dislodged an aging Cech and we would not have had to spend money on Leno.
Also, Emi has had the benefit of coming in after quarantine. Into a system that is infinitely better than the shambles under Emery. Do you lot remember how we would constantly face 20-30 shots against team like watford??? Relegated Watford!! Do you remember how many times Leno earned us a draw or kept it respectable? Without his heroics (he was asked to do more than any other goalie in the league last season I bet) we would have been bottom 8 without a doubt.
So until Emi has proven himself...consistently...no one should be saying he is better than Leno.
The positive is that we could have either in goal and no fan would bat an eyelid. The days of Almunia in goal are gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When Leno comes back in I expect to go back to the 20-30 shots a game. Emi is good at reading the game and getting what he wants from his defenders. Thats a massive part of his game. If you compare them on shot stopping only Leno will win. If you compare them on the full range of what a good gk should do Emi wins it.
posted on 8/9/20
Following from what Wonky said, Emi seems to be a better leader in general, he seems to have the right mindset.
Leno seems too passive for me. I just feel we need more of that energy in our team, we don't have enough players like.
Also Emi worked his socks off preparing during quarantine just in case if there was an opportunity, even his wife asked him why he was working so hard when he's not going to get picked ahead of Leno, then low and behold Leno got injured he slotted in straight away.
It's attitudes like that we need in the team.
posted on 9/9/20
comment by TBaggerin (U11806)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
I didn't say Leno was an unknown quantity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I know. I understood your point. But what I was talking about was our alternative. It seems obvious to me that when an agent uses the term 'no.1 choice' what he really means is getting the wages of a no.1. Thats understandable. But we cannot afford two keepers on wages of a no.1 while we are out of the Champions League.
So its a stark choice of Leno or Emi. Now even if I accept your point that we haven't seen enough of Emi (though I personally think we have seen enough when a Keeper wins you a cup), we do know what Leno can do. And for me he is lacking in quite a few attributes. I have never been quite sure on Leno especially in the air and commanding the box. Now if you accept that Leno might not be what we need, it would be better in my opinion in taking a chance on Emi and selling Leno. Leno has very good potential and is well regarded in Germany. So I would think we can get more money for him than Emi.
posted on 9/9/20
But is he a better goalie than Heaton?
posted on 9/9/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 hours, 50 minutes ago
comment by TBaggerin (U11806)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
I didn't say Leno was an unknown quantity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I know. I understood your point. But what I was talking about was our alternative. It seems obvious to me that when an agent uses the term 'no.1 choice' what he really means is getting the wages of a no.1. Thats understandable. But we cannot afford two keepers on wages of a no.1 while we are out of the Champions League.
So its a stark choice of Leno or Emi. Now even if I accept your point that we haven't seen enough of Emi (though I personally think we have seen enough when a Keeper wins you a cup), we do know what Leno can do. And for me he is lacking in quite a few attributes. I have never been quite sure on Leno especially in the air and commanding the box. Now if you accept that Leno might not be what we need, it would be better in my opinion in taking a chance on Emi and selling Leno. Leno has very good potential and is well regarded in Germany. So I would think we can get more money for him than Emi.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course sellig Leno would make financial sense. Emi is on £20k a wek, Leno £100k. We could probably get £5-10m more selling Leno. Offer Emi £50-60k a week, sell Leno and it gives us an extra £5-10m cash and £40-50k a week is salary savings.
Page 1 of 2