Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
I disagree.
I'm sure scouts identified players for SAF,
Vidic for example, and many more.
Yes it is that hard to find a decent DM, for sale, at a decent price. All of us experts on here can't.
And how much influence does Ole have, he's set his standard of young, hungry players, the right character and who want to play for us.
Is it his job to identify them all?
Do the negotiation?
I read on here it's also his job to coach them and improve them all,
To be a master tactician,
And to do it without smiling and running up and down the line. Give him the magic sponge as well.
one thing that does confuse me is this claim that the bruno fee comes out of this year's budget rather than last year's.
we spent last summer being linked to dybala, eriksen, and bruno, and got none of them (bruno apparently gives the ball away too much, so our scouts were doubtful last summer - though not in january it seems).
so if it was a conscious decision to strengthen the defence rather than the no.10 position, would we rather have gone into the season with maguire-lindelof-pereira in their respective positions, or smalling-lindelof-bruno?
and if you answer "i'd have preferred the latter, don", do we blame OGS for that at all?
There are plenty of examples of good value. Everton just signed Rodriguez, a versatile attacking player playing him RW and he’s shining.
Chelsea signed Werner for £50m and Ziyech for a good price.
Liverpool signed Thiago for £30m.
Plenty of value, plenty of talent. Ultimately, Ole doesn’t negotiate, nor does he sign the cheques.
No we don't blame Ole for that.
But he is responsible for choosing the team, the formation, the attitude and confidence of the players;
We don't know if the scouts were doubtful on Bruno, or if Ole was, I'm pretty sure he wanted him earlier.
If it was the scouts who dissed him, we need new scouts.
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 36 seconds ago
No we don't blame Ole for that.
But he is responsible for choosing the team, the formation, the attitude and confidence of the players;
We don't know if the scouts were doubtful on Bruno, or if Ole was, I'm pretty sure he wanted him earlier.
If it was the scouts who dissed him, we need new scouts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our old scouts say they put forward plenty of good players to the transfer committee, but they have their own targets in mind, one even quit because of it.
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
There are plenty of examples of good value. Everton just signed Rodriguez, a versatile attacking player playing him RW and he’s shining.
Chelsea signed Werner for £50m and Ziyech for a good price.
Liverpool signed Thiago for £30m.
Plenty of value, plenty of talent. Ultimately, Ole doesn’t negotiate, nor does he sign the cheques.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neither Rodriquez or Thiago are young players so don't fit his template
We've gone after difficult to attain players as soon as Ed became in charge. Remember us trying all window to get Fabregas only to end up with Fellaini? It worked out with getting Pogba as Jose could attract top players. Moyes and Ole not so much.
We do sign players identified by scouts, and most don't cut it. We needed a top cb and they recommended Lindelof and Bailly.
We don't know if the scouts were doubtful on Bruno, or if Ole was, I'm pretty sure he wanted him earlier.
----------------------------------------------
I think in that case it might've been a combination. There are quite a few people involved in the process of signing players at United, more than is probably necessary.
The last two players brought in under Ole have been excellent signings but I find it impossible to believe we couldn't have put the money we spent last summer to far better use.
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
With those in charge, any Utd manager has to learn to keep very expensive signings off their shopping list. Otherwise we spend most of the window in deadlock over the fee and get little done.
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Evra and Vidic were scouted, doubt Fergie knew much about them. Herrera and Shaw were scouted and LVG okayed the deals.
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you really reckon scouts had nothing to do with any of those signings? The manager saw them on TV a few times and thought 'yeah why not, they look decent'?
I'll be honest, I'm not expert on this stuff, knowledge of it seems to based on what you've done on FIFA career mode.
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you really reckon scouts had nothing to do with any of those signings? The manager saw them on TV a few times and thought 'yeah why not, they look decent'?
I'll be honest, I'm not expert on this stuff, knowledge of it seems to based on what you've done on FIFA career mode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They may well have played a role, but you see what there're really made of when we sign players the manager would have known little about. Who on earth came up with Obertan and Buttner? No one in Europe could understand why we were signing them.
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------
How can you be sure no scouting work at all was put into that list of players? Yes most of them were fairly well known at the time we signed them but that doesn't automatically mean they weren't still scouted for weeks or months on end.
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you really reckon scouts had nothing to do with any of those signings? The manager saw them on TV a few times and thought 'yeah why not, they look decent'?
I'll be honest, I'm not expert on this stuff, knowledge of it seems to based on what you've done on FIFA career mode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They may well have played a role, but you see what there're really made of when we sign players the manager would have known little about. Who on earth came up with Obertan and Buttner? No one in Europe could understand why we were signing them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah ok, but you're arguing a different point to the OP, who's argument i just cannot understand.
Fans frustrate themselves with illusions they know more than they do. You read a newspaper headline or see a tweet and treat it like its an official briefing from the club. You act like you know what people are thinking or have any idea what they do day to day.
Yes, it's frustrating that we haven't signed more players. We can debate why but the general tone and arrogance of so many, who act like they can run a football club better than whoever the CEO is as well as manage it better than the manager and scout and coach better than the coaches. Funny that they seem to know how to do all these jobs, all that football manager experience has left some thinking that's how it's done.
Just accept that we are 90% ignorant to what goes on, stop getting angry at really specific things because you're just creating reasons to get annoyed and it's based on what you've read other people say. Leave the constant ad hominem attacks because it doesn't make your point any more valid. Also maybe look at the structure of the club because people latch on to the one or two names they know and just blame them for everything.
This isn't to say 'don't discuss or theorise' but stop doing it with such a self inflated value of your opinion. Everyone is a fricking armchair expert and its so tiresome. If you're that clued up, go get a job in the game, go and coach, or manage, run a club, you're clearly wasted on an Internet forum.
I disagree we should change manager if he doesn't achieve what you have said in the OP. I like Ole as a manager, I like that he doesn't air our dirty laundry, I like the football he wants us playing and I can see the direction he is going in terms of recruitment and culture at the club. If we don't finish on the top 4 because other teams have strengthened better than us then changing manager is an asinine suggestion, the next manager would have the same issues. Now, if its due to poor performances, lack of effort, bad decisions on Ole's part then sure, look at who is available but that can continue the work we've seen already and not completely change direction because that's yet another 2/3 years in limbo.
It isn't a direct comparison but Liverpool have done so well in this regard. They've pulled ahead because of good decisions, good recruitment and a belief in the project. Yes, they have talent as well in players and their manager but the package overall is what is taking them up a level and fair play to them.
We do need some more players but I also think there's a general lack of appreciation for kicking the season off in the position we're in now vs last year. I know 'they are like a new signing' is a tiresome cliche but we had no Pogba for an insane amount of last season and whether you like it or not, he's an extremely talented player and we're much better for having him available. Bruno gets a full season following a very successful bedding in period. Mason is starting the season in a far better place than last year. Our midfield is actually really good, maybe not the best in the world, whatever. It's very good and don't forget our front 3 ended on greta numbers in terms of goals last year. Our big issue was through autumn and winter where we relied on too many players that shouldn't be starting every week. We struggled to break teams down and lacked creativity BADLY. Pogba, Bruno and VDB alone is head and shoulders above Fred, McTominay and Pereira.
We're hardly slumming it with zero money spent and selling off our best assets. We can still sign players and I imagine we will.
These days it's like people compete with each other as to who can be the most annoyed about the most things.
They may well have played a role, but you see what there're really made of when we sign players the manager would have known little about.
------------------------------------------------
Ultimately it's very difficult to know who our scouts are watching and recommending to the person/people they answer to.
God knows who our scouts have recommended in the past. It's not their decision whether we sign players at the end of the day.
Seriously, how is it Oles fault because Ed can't negotiate a winning deal?
Ole was tested as a manager last season and came out third, with 2 cup semi finals and a CL spot. Had you forgotten that?
i think what the fox is saying is "woodward out"
This is just another 'Ole is no more suitable than a PE teacher' sharticle
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 1 minute ago
Fans frustrate themselves with illusions they know more than they do. You read a newspaper headline or see a tweet and treat it like its an official briefing from the club. You act like you know what people are thinking or have any idea what they do day to day.
Yes, it's frustrating that we haven't signed more players. We can debate why but the general tone and arrogance of so many, who act like they can run a football club better than whoever the CEO is as well as manage it better than the manager and scout and coach better than the coaches. Funny that they seem to know how to do all these jobs, all that football manager experience has left some thinking that's how it's done.
Just accept that we are 90% ignorant to what goes on, stop getting angry at really specific things because you're just creating reasons to get annoyed and it's based on what you've read other people say. Leave the constant ad hominem attacks because it doesn't make your point any more valid. Also maybe look at the structure of the club because people latch on to the one or two names they know and just blame them for everything.
This isn't to say 'don't discuss or theorise' but stop doing it with such a self inflated value of your opinion. Everyone is a fricking armchair expert and its so tiresome. If you're that clued up, go get a job in the game, go and coach, or manage, run a club, you're clearly wasted on an Internet forum.
I disagree we should change manager if he doesn't achieve what you have said in the OP. I like Ole as a manager, I like that he doesn't air our dirty laundry, I like the football he wants us playing and I can see the direction he is going in terms of recruitment and culture at the club. If we don't finish on the top 4 because other teams have strengthened better than us then changing manager is an asinine suggestion, the next manager would have the same issues. Now, if its due to poor performances, lack of effort, bad decisions on Ole's part then sure, look at who is available but that can continue the work we've seen already and not completely change direction because that's yet another 2/3 years in limbo.
It isn't a direct comparison but Liverpool have done so well in this regard. They've pulled ahead because of good decisions, good recruitment and a belief in the project. Yes, they have talent as well in players and their manager but the package overall is what is taking them up a level and fair play to them.
We do need some more players but I also think there's a general lack of appreciation for kicking the season off in the position we're in now vs last year. I know 'they are like a new signing' is a tiresome cliche but we had no Pogba for an insane amount of last season and whether you like it or not, he's an extremely talented player and we're much better for having him available. Bruno gets a full season following a very successful bedding in period. Mason is starting the season in a far better place than last year. Our midfield is actually really good, maybe not the best in the world, whatever. It's very good and don't forget our front 3 ended on greta numbers in terms of goals last year. Our big issue was through autumn and winter where we relied on too many players that shouldn't be starting every week. We struggled to break teams down and lacked creativity BADLY. Pogba, Bruno and VDB alone is head and shoulders above Fred, McTominay and Pereira.
We're hardly slumming it with zero money spent and selling off our best assets. We can still sign players and I imagine we will.
These days it's like people compete with each other as to who can be the most annoyed about the most things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Very fair comments. I don't get angry, but may of done when younger.And I've certainly never pretended to know more than the people in the job know. I'd give you five stars if it was an article.
OP, I recommend Fox's post to you.
Your assertions are based on assumptions about a window that hasn't closed yet and conjecture about respective roles across the organisation in recruitment. That is, bemoaning an outcome that hasn't yet come to pass based on factors you can't see.
Sign in if you want to comment
Is Ole blameless in all this?
Page 1 of 2
posted on 19/9/20
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
posted on 19/9/20
I disagree.
I'm sure scouts identified players for SAF,
Vidic for example, and many more.
Yes it is that hard to find a decent DM, for sale, at a decent price. All of us experts on here can't.
And how much influence does Ole have, he's set his standard of young, hungry players, the right character and who want to play for us.
Is it his job to identify them all?
Do the negotiation?
I read on here it's also his job to coach them and improve them all,
To be a master tactician,
And to do it without smiling and running up and down the line. Give him the magic sponge as well.
posted on 19/9/20
one thing that does confuse me is this claim that the bruno fee comes out of this year's budget rather than last year's.
we spent last summer being linked to dybala, eriksen, and bruno, and got none of them (bruno apparently gives the ball away too much, so our scouts were doubtful last summer - though not in january it seems).
so if it was a conscious decision to strengthen the defence rather than the no.10 position, would we rather have gone into the season with maguire-lindelof-pereira in their respective positions, or smalling-lindelof-bruno?
and if you answer "i'd have preferred the latter, don", do we blame OGS for that at all?
posted on 19/9/20
There are plenty of examples of good value. Everton just signed Rodriguez, a versatile attacking player playing him RW and he’s shining.
Chelsea signed Werner for £50m and Ziyech for a good price.
Liverpool signed Thiago for £30m.
Plenty of value, plenty of talent. Ultimately, Ole doesn’t negotiate, nor does he sign the cheques.
posted on 19/9/20
No we don't blame Ole for that.
But he is responsible for choosing the team, the formation, the attitude and confidence of the players;
We don't know if the scouts were doubtful on Bruno, or if Ole was, I'm pretty sure he wanted him earlier.
If it was the scouts who dissed him, we need new scouts.
posted on 19/9/20
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------
posted on 19/9/20
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 36 seconds ago
No we don't blame Ole for that.
But he is responsible for choosing the team, the formation, the attitude and confidence of the players;
We don't know if the scouts were doubtful on Bruno, or if Ole was, I'm pretty sure he wanted him earlier.
If it was the scouts who dissed him, we need new scouts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Our old scouts say they put forward plenty of good players to the transfer committee, but they have their own targets in mind, one even quit because of it.
posted on 19/9/20
comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 4 minutes ago
There are plenty of examples of good value. Everton just signed Rodriguez, a versatile attacking player playing him RW and he’s shining.
Chelsea signed Werner for £50m and Ziyech for a good price.
Liverpool signed Thiago for £30m.
Plenty of value, plenty of talent. Ultimately, Ole doesn’t negotiate, nor does he sign the cheques.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Neither Rodriquez or Thiago are young players so don't fit his template
posted on 19/9/20
We've gone after difficult to attain players as soon as Ed became in charge. Remember us trying all window to get Fabregas only to end up with Fellaini? It worked out with getting Pogba as Jose could attract top players. Moyes and Ole not so much.
We do sign players identified by scouts, and most don't cut it. We needed a top cb and they recommended Lindelof and Bailly.
posted on 19/9/20
We don't know if the scouts were doubtful on Bruno, or if Ole was, I'm pretty sure he wanted him earlier.
----------------------------------------------
I think in that case it might've been a combination. There are quite a few people involved in the process of signing players at United, more than is probably necessary.
The last two players brought in under Ole have been excellent signings but I find it impossible to believe we couldn't have put the money we spent last summer to far better use.
posted on 19/9/20
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
posted on 19/9/20
With those in charge, any Utd manager has to learn to keep very expensive signings off their shopping list. Otherwise we spend most of the window in deadlock over the fee and get little done.
posted on 19/9/20
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Evra and Vidic were scouted, doubt Fergie knew much about them. Herrera and Shaw were scouted and LVG okayed the deals.
posted on 19/9/20
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you really reckon scouts had nothing to do with any of those signings? The manager saw them on TV a few times and thought 'yeah why not, they look decent'?
I'll be honest, I'm not expert on this stuff, knowledge of it seems to based on what you've done on FIFA career mode.
posted on 19/9/20
*your knowledge of it
posted on 19/9/20
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you really reckon scouts had nothing to do with any of those signings? The manager saw them on TV a few times and thought 'yeah why not, they look decent'?
I'll be honest, I'm not expert on this stuff, knowledge of it seems to based on what you've done on FIFA career mode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They may well have played a role, but you see what there're really made of when we sign players the manager would have known little about. Who on earth came up with Obertan and Buttner? No one in Europe could understand why we were signing them.
posted on 19/9/20
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------
How can you be sure no scouting work at all was put into that list of players? Yes most of them were fairly well known at the time we signed them but that doesn't automatically mean they weren't still scouted for weeks or months on end.
posted on 19/9/20
comment by N2 (U22280)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The-ComeBack-Kings (U18502)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by -bloodred- (U1222)
posted 15 minutes ago
Some believe that the scouts are responsible for identifying players but I have rarely seen us signing players identified by the scouts from SAF to LVG to Joze
------------------
Lol what
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't how that is funny but I can name players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Saha, Evra, Berbatov, Carrick, Ferdinand, Van Der Sar, Fellieni, Valencia, Young, Schweinsteiger, De Maria, Pogba, Sniederlin, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan that are signed by the managers at the time. The only one I can say is scouted and brought in is Hernandez and not completely sure about Vidic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you really reckon scouts had nothing to do with any of those signings? The manager saw them on TV a few times and thought 'yeah why not, they look decent'?
I'll be honest, I'm not expert on this stuff, knowledge of it seems to based on what you've done on FIFA career mode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They may well have played a role, but you see what there're really made of when we sign players the manager would have known little about. Who on earth came up with Obertan and Buttner? No one in Europe could understand why we were signing them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah ok, but you're arguing a different point to the OP, who's argument i just cannot understand.
posted on 19/9/20
Fans frustrate themselves with illusions they know more than they do. You read a newspaper headline or see a tweet and treat it like its an official briefing from the club. You act like you know what people are thinking or have any idea what they do day to day.
Yes, it's frustrating that we haven't signed more players. We can debate why but the general tone and arrogance of so many, who act like they can run a football club better than whoever the CEO is as well as manage it better than the manager and scout and coach better than the coaches. Funny that they seem to know how to do all these jobs, all that football manager experience has left some thinking that's how it's done.
Just accept that we are 90% ignorant to what goes on, stop getting angry at really specific things because you're just creating reasons to get annoyed and it's based on what you've read other people say. Leave the constant ad hominem attacks because it doesn't make your point any more valid. Also maybe look at the structure of the club because people latch on to the one or two names they know and just blame them for everything.
This isn't to say 'don't discuss or theorise' but stop doing it with such a self inflated value of your opinion. Everyone is a fricking armchair expert and its so tiresome. If you're that clued up, go get a job in the game, go and coach, or manage, run a club, you're clearly wasted on an Internet forum.
I disagree we should change manager if he doesn't achieve what you have said in the OP. I like Ole as a manager, I like that he doesn't air our dirty laundry, I like the football he wants us playing and I can see the direction he is going in terms of recruitment and culture at the club. If we don't finish on the top 4 because other teams have strengthened better than us then changing manager is an asinine suggestion, the next manager would have the same issues. Now, if its due to poor performances, lack of effort, bad decisions on Ole's part then sure, look at who is available but that can continue the work we've seen already and not completely change direction because that's yet another 2/3 years in limbo.
It isn't a direct comparison but Liverpool have done so well in this regard. They've pulled ahead because of good decisions, good recruitment and a belief in the project. Yes, they have talent as well in players and their manager but the package overall is what is taking them up a level and fair play to them.
We do need some more players but I also think there's a general lack of appreciation for kicking the season off in the position we're in now vs last year. I know 'they are like a new signing' is a tiresome cliche but we had no Pogba for an insane amount of last season and whether you like it or not, he's an extremely talented player and we're much better for having him available. Bruno gets a full season following a very successful bedding in period. Mason is starting the season in a far better place than last year. Our midfield is actually really good, maybe not the best in the world, whatever. It's very good and don't forget our front 3 ended on greta numbers in terms of goals last year. Our big issue was through autumn and winter where we relied on too many players that shouldn't be starting every week. We struggled to break teams down and lacked creativity BADLY. Pogba, Bruno and VDB alone is head and shoulders above Fred, McTominay and Pereira.
We're hardly slumming it with zero money spent and selling off our best assets. We can still sign players and I imagine we will.
These days it's like people compete with each other as to who can be the most annoyed about the most things.
posted on 19/9/20
They may well have played a role, but you see what there're really made of when we sign players the manager would have known little about.
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Ultimately it's very difficult to know who our scouts are watching and recommending to the person/people they answer to.
God knows who our scouts have recommended in the past. It's not their decision whether we sign players at the end of the day.
posted on 19/9/20
Seriously, how is it Oles fault because Ed can't negotiate a winning deal?
Ole was tested as a manager last season and came out third, with 2 cup semi finals and a CL spot. Had you forgotten that?
posted on 19/9/20
i think what the fox is saying is "woodward out"
posted on 19/9/20
This is just another 'Ole is no more suitable than a PE teacher' sharticle
posted on 19/9/20
comment by TheFoxOutsideTheBox (U20459)
posted 1 minute ago
Fans frustrate themselves with illusions they know more than they do. You read a newspaper headline or see a tweet and treat it like its an official briefing from the club. You act like you know what people are thinking or have any idea what they do day to day.
Yes, it's frustrating that we haven't signed more players. We can debate why but the general tone and arrogance of so many, who act like they can run a football club better than whoever the CEO is as well as manage it better than the manager and scout and coach better than the coaches. Funny that they seem to know how to do all these jobs, all that football manager experience has left some thinking that's how it's done.
Just accept that we are 90% ignorant to what goes on, stop getting angry at really specific things because you're just creating reasons to get annoyed and it's based on what you've read other people say. Leave the constant ad hominem attacks because it doesn't make your point any more valid. Also maybe look at the structure of the club because people latch on to the one or two names they know and just blame them for everything.
This isn't to say 'don't discuss or theorise' but stop doing it with such a self inflated value of your opinion. Everyone is a fricking armchair expert and its so tiresome. If you're that clued up, go get a job in the game, go and coach, or manage, run a club, you're clearly wasted on an Internet forum.
I disagree we should change manager if he doesn't achieve what you have said in the OP. I like Ole as a manager, I like that he doesn't air our dirty laundry, I like the football he wants us playing and I can see the direction he is going in terms of recruitment and culture at the club. If we don't finish on the top 4 because other teams have strengthened better than us then changing manager is an asinine suggestion, the next manager would have the same issues. Now, if its due to poor performances, lack of effort, bad decisions on Ole's part then sure, look at who is available but that can continue the work we've seen already and not completely change direction because that's yet another 2/3 years in limbo.
It isn't a direct comparison but Liverpool have done so well in this regard. They've pulled ahead because of good decisions, good recruitment and a belief in the project. Yes, they have talent as well in players and their manager but the package overall is what is taking them up a level and fair play to them.
We do need some more players but I also think there's a general lack of appreciation for kicking the season off in the position we're in now vs last year. I know 'they are like a new signing' is a tiresome cliche but we had no Pogba for an insane amount of last season and whether you like it or not, he's an extremely talented player and we're much better for having him available. Bruno gets a full season following a very successful bedding in period. Mason is starting the season in a far better place than last year. Our midfield is actually really good, maybe not the best in the world, whatever. It's very good and don't forget our front 3 ended on greta numbers in terms of goals last year. Our big issue was through autumn and winter where we relied on too many players that shouldn't be starting every week. We struggled to break teams down and lacked creativity BADLY. Pogba, Bruno and VDB alone is head and shoulders above Fred, McTominay and Pereira.
We're hardly slumming it with zero money spent and selling off our best assets. We can still sign players and I imagine we will.
These days it's like people compete with each other as to who can be the most annoyed about the most things.
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Very fair comments. I don't get angry, but may of done when younger.And I've certainly never pretended to know more than the people in the job know. I'd give you five stars if it was an article.
posted on 19/9/20
OP, I recommend Fox's post to you.
Your assertions are based on assumptions about a window that hasn't closed yet and conjecture about respective roles across the organisation in recruitment. That is, bemoaning an outcome that hasn't yet come to pass based on factors you can't see.
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