Henderson
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Shaw
Williams McTominay Matic Telles
Fernandes
Greenwood Rashford
If we can get Telles in, I wouldn't mind seeing the above tried out to stop the rot during this month's tricky fixtures. FB seems to be a major issue at the moment and perhaps we just ask Shaw and Wan-Bissaka to do what they do best: defend. Their recovery pace might help Maguire as well.
Not sure if Cavani will be match-fit yet and it would be nice to see Donny feature as well.
Expected goals says we should have conceded 8 but conceded 11. A lot of the posts and bar hit in Brighton game would have been easy saves for the keeper if on target as they were shots from long range. Palace and Spurs had like an 80% chance conversion rate which is insane really.
Our problem is individual errors more than anything. Since Solskjaer came in we are near best PL side in history at restricting the opposition shots. In same period Spurs and Arsenal were near top of shots and chances against so it was not normal for us to continue like we were doing. Even if we concede at the same rate of chances for rest of the season we would have allowed significantly fewer chances against us than Spurs or Arsenal have managed since OGS took the job.
"A lot of the posts and bar hit in Brighton game would have been easy saves for the keeper if on target as they were shots from long range."
Van de Beek should be starting for you lot, only one with high quality CL experience in midfield in recent years.
It is funny people are saying OGS isn’t good enough. Since OGS took the job we created a lot more chances and allowed fewer chances against than Mourinho or Arteta manager and it isn’t even close. What yesterday proved was Henderson should be our PL goalkeeper. I doubt any other goalkeeper rarely saves as few shots as De Gea has managed in last few seasons. Look at Romero record in cup games and De Gea’s. De Gea virtually saves nothing every cup game and Romero saves nearly everything every cup game. Henderson the same. Common theme is emerging since the end of 17/18 season, we concede a lot more goals than we should. It is like when Liverpool had Karius or when Man City had Bravo in goal. Just shoot on target and it is a goal. Sad to see really a goalkeeper that hit his peak in 17/18 season is near the worst at stopping shots. I honestly think Romero would have saved at least 3 of those goals but De Gea basically made Spurs have open goals to aim at.
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 16 minutes ago
Henderson
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Shaw
Williams McTominay Matic Telles
Fernandes
Greenwood Rashford
If we can get Telles in, I wouldn't mind seeing the above tried out to stop the rot during this month's tricky fixtures. FB seems to be a major issue at the moment and perhaps we just ask Shaw and Wan-Bissaka to do what they do best: defend. Their recovery pace might help Maguire as well.
Not sure if Cavani will be match-fit yet and it would be nice to see Donny feature as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be my team also with exception of Donny for one of the midfielders. Let pogba star for the reserves and learn how to run and tackle. He should only come in to replace Fernandez when injured or needs a rest
I think since end of 17/18 season De Gea has conceded about 30 goals that should have been easy saves for most keepers. Look at Sevilla game there goalkeeper saved one on one after one on one 2nd half. Sevilla manage 1 shot on goal 2nd half straight at De Gea in middle of goal and he fails to save it. Look at Spurs away last season a shot straight at him, easiest shot you can face and he lets it in. Everton away he gifts a goal. Everton home he could have tried cleaning it out even if he was fouled and goal shouldn’t have stood he still should have cleared it. Remember Arsenal away he let in a shot from like 35 yds straight at him and on top of that gifted them a goal in the hime game.
Henderson is fit and when Romero is we should have De Gea as 3rd choice. We wonder where we have gone wrong when we keep playing our worst keeper. Even Aston Villa have a better keeper than us.
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 6 minutes ago
It is funny people are saying OGS isn’t good enough. Since OGS took the job we created a lot more chances and allowed fewer chances against than Mourinho or Arteta manager and it isn’t even close. What yesterday proved was Henderson should be our PL goalkeeper. I doubt any other goalkeeper rarely saves as few shots as De Gea has managed in last few seasons. Look at Romero record in cup games and De Gea’s. De Gea virtually saves nothing every cup game and Romero saves nearly everything every cup game. Henderson the same. Common theme is emerging since the end of 17/18 season, we concede a lot more goals than we should. It is like when Liverpool had Karius or when Man City had Bravo in goal. Just shoot on target and it is a goal. Sad to see really a goalkeeper that hit his peak in 17/18 season is near the worst at stopping shots. I honestly think Romero would have saved at least 3 of those goals but De Gea basically made Spurs have open goals to aim at.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which goals yesterday do you think DDG should have saved?
comment by duckster (U21906)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 16 minutes ago
Henderson
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Shaw
Williams McTominay Matic Telles
Fernandes
Greenwood Rashford
If we can get Telles in, I wouldn't mind seeing the above tried out to stop the rot during this month's tricky fixtures. FB seems to be a major issue at the moment and perhaps we just ask Shaw and Wan-Bissaka to do what they do best: defend. Their recovery pace might help Maguire as well.
Not sure if Cavani will be match-fit yet and it would be nice to see Donny feature as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be my team also with exception of Donny for one of the midfielders. Let pogba star for the reserves and learn how to run and tackle. He should only come in to replace Fernandez when injured or needs a rest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know how we're going to get Bruno and Donny in the same team to be honest. Part of me wants to say that if Villa can play Barkley and Grealish then we should be able to, but it isn't that simple.
The wings are certainly an issue... Spurs were finding so much space down the left, even before the red card. Half the problem is that Pogba and Matic can't move quick enough to get across when the opposition wide players cut in. This is putting undue pressure on the full backs and forcing the attackers to fill in, which takes away our counter attack and further encourages their full backs to push up.
The one he let through his legs and he never closed the angle once on the ones that they hit in the corner from just inside the box.
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 2 minutes ago
The one he let through his legs and he never closed the angle once on the ones that they hit in the corner from just inside the box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one through his legs is pot luck, maybe he should have saved it but it certainly wasn’t a mistake. The others is just nonsense. DDG has been to blame for quite a few goals in the last couple of seasons but your trying to hard to pin any blame on him for yesterday. We have had much much bigger problems in front of him so far this season.
comment by DoireDevilBhoy (U10745)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 2 minutes ago
The one he let through his legs and he never closed the angle once on the ones that they hit in the corner from just inside the box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one through his legs is pot luck, maybe he should have saved it but it certainly wasn’t a mistake. The others is just nonsense. DDG has been to blame for quite a few goals in the last couple of seasons but your trying to hard to pin any blame on him for yesterday. We have had much much bigger problems in front of him so far this season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't necessarily agree with hafi overall but I do think DDG is an issue for us. I don't think he commands his area and this imo affects the defenders.
I think it was the second goal conceded where the DDG first instinct was to back up when he should have been flying out to put off the scorer. It may still have been a goal but he made it easier by backing off
Evidence when Romero or Henderson have played and usually kept clean sheets consistently. I think De Gea would have conceded 2 goals a got nowhere near both in the 2 big saves Henderson made in the EFL games.
It is like Chelsea with Kepa or Man City with Bravo or Liverpool with Karius who let in goals most top goalkeepers save.
A large part of the problem is that getting all of our 'best' players into the 11 doesn't equate a very balanced and compact defensive unit. Our team ends up looking like this when we've not got the ball:
----------------DDG
AWB--Lindelof-Maguire-Shaw
--------Pogba------Matic
Greenwood------------Rashford
---------------Bruno
----------------Martial
It's too open and carrying too many players that don't really want to graft and work in deeper areas. We'd look immediately better if the midfield shape became more compact:
-----------------------Matic
Greenwood-Bruno--Pogba-Rashford
And we'd also look better at this stage with Beekers in there instead of Pogba and a more natural wide player on the right hand side of the pitch (but we've been saying this since forever!).
There's just little little tempo and intensity when we're out of possession. I remember against Sevilla we came out aggressive and were all over them, took the lead but then dropped off and allowed them to get back into the game. If we can combine that intensity with a better shape off the ball, we'll give ourselves a much better platform from which to build.
There are so many tactical and systemic issues with how we play not only defensively but how we move the ball between defence and attack and how we attack in the final third that it's hard to know where to begin.
Combine that with having a mentally fragile group of players who aren't all pulling in the same direction in terms of attitude and work rate and we've got problems.
A lot of these issues were papered over to an extent last season because of how well we did post-Burnley but even in quite a few of the games during that run, some of these issues were still present, issues we've had under so many managers.
We have some good players, some really good players especially in attack who have improved individually under the current coaching set up I'll add, capable of producing decisive moments on their own and when they play well they're going to win games and I think that played a big part last season. In other words I think the individual quality of our attack and the form they were in at the back end of last season was the overriding factor in how well we did, more so than any particular tactic, playing pattern or anything really to do with the collective.
The Red Side we were creating like those 20 chances per game. Our finishing was actually woeful on that run after the Burnley defeat. It was just that we were creating an insane amount of chances per game. I think after Burnley game we missed like an average of 15 chances per game. Our conversion rate was just average in that time but we were creating similar amount to Bayern Munich since Fernandes came.
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posted on 5/10/20
Henderson
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Shaw
Williams McTominay Matic Telles
Fernandes
Greenwood Rashford
If we can get Telles in, I wouldn't mind seeing the above tried out to stop the rot during this month's tricky fixtures. FB seems to be a major issue at the moment and perhaps we just ask Shaw and Wan-Bissaka to do what they do best: defend. Their recovery pace might help Maguire as well.
Not sure if Cavani will be match-fit yet and it would be nice to see Donny feature as well.
posted on 5/10/20
Expected goals says we should have conceded 8 but conceded 11. A lot of the posts and bar hit in Brighton game would have been easy saves for the keeper if on target as they were shots from long range. Palace and Spurs had like an 80% chance conversion rate which is insane really.
Our problem is individual errors more than anything. Since Solskjaer came in we are near best PL side in history at restricting the opposition shots. In same period Spurs and Arsenal were near top of shots and chances against so it was not normal for us to continue like we were doing. Even if we concede at the same rate of chances for rest of the season we would have allowed significantly fewer chances against us than Spurs or Arsenal have managed since OGS took the job.
posted on 5/10/20
"A lot of the posts and bar hit in Brighton game would have been easy saves for the keeper if on target as they were shots from long range."
posted on 5/10/20
Van de Beek should be starting for you lot, only one with high quality CL experience in midfield in recent years.
posted on 5/10/20
It is funny people are saying OGS isn’t good enough. Since OGS took the job we created a lot more chances and allowed fewer chances against than Mourinho or Arteta manager and it isn’t even close. What yesterday proved was Henderson should be our PL goalkeeper. I doubt any other goalkeeper rarely saves as few shots as De Gea has managed in last few seasons. Look at Romero record in cup games and De Gea’s. De Gea virtually saves nothing every cup game and Romero saves nearly everything every cup game. Henderson the same. Common theme is emerging since the end of 17/18 season, we concede a lot more goals than we should. It is like when Liverpool had Karius or when Man City had Bravo in goal. Just shoot on target and it is a goal. Sad to see really a goalkeeper that hit his peak in 17/18 season is near the worst at stopping shots. I honestly think Romero would have saved at least 3 of those goals but De Gea basically made Spurs have open goals to aim at.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 16 minutes ago
Henderson
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Shaw
Williams McTominay Matic Telles
Fernandes
Greenwood Rashford
If we can get Telles in, I wouldn't mind seeing the above tried out to stop the rot during this month's tricky fixtures. FB seems to be a major issue at the moment and perhaps we just ask Shaw and Wan-Bissaka to do what they do best: defend. Their recovery pace might help Maguire as well.
Not sure if Cavani will be match-fit yet and it would be nice to see Donny feature as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be my team also with exception of Donny for one of the midfielders. Let pogba star for the reserves and learn how to run and tackle. He should only come in to replace Fernandez when injured or needs a rest
posted on 5/10/20
I think since end of 17/18 season De Gea has conceded about 30 goals that should have been easy saves for most keepers. Look at Sevilla game there goalkeeper saved one on one after one on one 2nd half. Sevilla manage 1 shot on goal 2nd half straight at De Gea in middle of goal and he fails to save it. Look at Spurs away last season a shot straight at him, easiest shot you can face and he lets it in. Everton away he gifts a goal. Everton home he could have tried cleaning it out even if he was fouled and goal shouldn’t have stood he still should have cleared it. Remember Arsenal away he let in a shot from like 35 yds straight at him and on top of that gifted them a goal in the hime game.
Henderson is fit and when Romero is we should have De Gea as 3rd choice. We wonder where we have gone wrong when we keep playing our worst keeper. Even Aston Villa have a better keeper than us.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 6 minutes ago
It is funny people are saying OGS isn’t good enough. Since OGS took the job we created a lot more chances and allowed fewer chances against than Mourinho or Arteta manager and it isn’t even close. What yesterday proved was Henderson should be our PL goalkeeper. I doubt any other goalkeeper rarely saves as few shots as De Gea has managed in last few seasons. Look at Romero record in cup games and De Gea’s. De Gea virtually saves nothing every cup game and Romero saves nearly everything every cup game. Henderson the same. Common theme is emerging since the end of 17/18 season, we concede a lot more goals than we should. It is like when Liverpool had Karius or when Man City had Bravo in goal. Just shoot on target and it is a goal. Sad to see really a goalkeeper that hit his peak in 17/18 season is near the worst at stopping shots. I honestly think Romero would have saved at least 3 of those goals but De Gea basically made Spurs have open goals to aim at.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which goals yesterday do you think DDG should have saved?
posted on 5/10/20
comment by duckster (U21906)
posted 16 seconds ago
comment by Clockwork Red (U4892)
posted 16 minutes ago
Henderson
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Shaw
Williams McTominay Matic Telles
Fernandes
Greenwood Rashford
If we can get Telles in, I wouldn't mind seeing the above tried out to stop the rot during this month's tricky fixtures. FB seems to be a major issue at the moment and perhaps we just ask Shaw and Wan-Bissaka to do what they do best: defend. Their recovery pace might help Maguire as well.
Not sure if Cavani will be match-fit yet and it would be nice to see Donny feature as well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That would be my team also with exception of Donny for one of the midfielders. Let pogba star for the reserves and learn how to run and tackle. He should only come in to replace Fernandez when injured or needs a rest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know how we're going to get Bruno and Donny in the same team to be honest. Part of me wants to say that if Villa can play Barkley and Grealish then we should be able to, but it isn't that simple.
posted on 5/10/20
The wings are certainly an issue... Spurs were finding so much space down the left, even before the red card. Half the problem is that Pogba and Matic can't move quick enough to get across when the opposition wide players cut in. This is putting undue pressure on the full backs and forcing the attackers to fill in, which takes away our counter attack and further encourages their full backs to push up.
posted on 5/10/20
The one he let through his legs and he never closed the angle once on the ones that they hit in the corner from just inside the box.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 2 minutes ago
The one he let through his legs and he never closed the angle once on the ones that they hit in the corner from just inside the box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one through his legs is pot luck, maybe he should have saved it but it certainly wasn’t a mistake. The others is just nonsense. DDG has been to blame for quite a few goals in the last couple of seasons but your trying to hard to pin any blame on him for yesterday. We have had much much bigger problems in front of him so far this season.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by DoireDevilBhoy (U10745)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 2 minutes ago
The one he let through his legs and he never closed the angle once on the ones that they hit in the corner from just inside the box.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The one through his legs is pot luck, maybe he should have saved it but it certainly wasn’t a mistake. The others is just nonsense. DDG has been to blame for quite a few goals in the last couple of seasons but your trying to hard to pin any blame on him for yesterday. We have had much much bigger problems in front of him so far this season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't necessarily agree with hafi overall but I do think DDG is an issue for us. I don't think he commands his area and this imo affects the defenders.
I think it was the second goal conceded where the DDG first instinct was to back up when he should have been flying out to put off the scorer. It may still have been a goal but he made it easier by backing off
posted on 5/10/20
Evidence when Romero or Henderson have played and usually kept clean sheets consistently. I think De Gea would have conceded 2 goals a got nowhere near both in the 2 big saves Henderson made in the EFL games.
posted on 5/10/20
It is like Chelsea with Kepa or Man City with Bravo or Liverpool with Karius who let in goals most top goalkeepers save.
posted on 5/10/20
A large part of the problem is that getting all of our 'best' players into the 11 doesn't equate a very balanced and compact defensive unit. Our team ends up looking like this when we've not got the ball:
----------------DDG
AWB--Lindelof-Maguire-Shaw
--------Pogba------Matic
Greenwood------------Rashford
---------------Bruno
----------------Martial
It's too open and carrying too many players that don't really want to graft and work in deeper areas. We'd look immediately better if the midfield shape became more compact:
-----------------------Matic
Greenwood-Bruno--Pogba-Rashford
And we'd also look better at this stage with Beekers in there instead of Pogba and a more natural wide player on the right hand side of the pitch (but we've been saying this since forever!).
There's just little little tempo and intensity when we're out of possession. I remember against Sevilla we came out aggressive and were all over them, took the lead but then dropped off and allowed them to get back into the game. If we can combine that intensity with a better shape off the ball, we'll give ourselves a much better platform from which to build.
posted on 5/10/20
There are so many tactical and systemic issues with how we play not only defensively but how we move the ball between defence and attack and how we attack in the final third that it's hard to know where to begin.
Combine that with having a mentally fragile group of players who aren't all pulling in the same direction in terms of attitude and work rate and we've got problems.
A lot of these issues were papered over to an extent last season because of how well we did post-Burnley but even in quite a few of the games during that run, some of these issues were still present, issues we've had under so many managers.
We have some good players, some really good players especially in attack who have improved individually under the current coaching set up I'll add, capable of producing decisive moments on their own and when they play well they're going to win games and I think that played a big part last season. In other words I think the individual quality of our attack and the form they were in at the back end of last season was the overriding factor in how well we did, more so than any particular tactic, playing pattern or anything really to do with the collective.
posted on 5/10/20
The Red Side we were creating like those 20 chances per game. Our finishing was actually woeful on that run after the Burnley defeat. It was just that we were creating an insane amount of chances per game. I think after Burnley game we missed like an average of 15 chances per game. Our conversion rate was just average in that time but we were creating similar amount to Bayern Munich since Fernandes came.
Page 1 of 1