OK...
a waste of time and space
comment by RB&W (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
OK...
a waste of time and space
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 Keep on buying into the propaganda. One day the penny will drop.
There were also reports that we asked Sancho to take a pay cut. (source: The Sun, Metro, The Daily Mail)
Pretty much both United and Dortmund are putting out news and their own propaganda.
United’s problems aren't that they didn't sign Sancho. Their issues are that those in charge of signings don't have a way of going about it. If the player/club aren't willing, you'd move onto other targets. Look at how quick other clubs have moved and compare it to United and you see a fundamental lack of proper planning, going all the way back to when Ed first took charge.
I know a few posters here would love Ole to be sacked and replaced by Poch but Poch will end the same way as Ole is heading, Jose did, LVG did and Moyes. There is simply no point in replacing the manager when the structure above him is incompetent. Even the best managers would fail.
You'd have thought, after the fiasco with getting Ighalo on loan, and missing out on Fernandes in the summer, that they'd right the wrongs this time. If Ed wasn't willing to match the price, he should have moved on. We should have looked at other targets. But it seems that its the same mistakes being repeated again and again.
My biggest issue with Ed and Judge is that we could have improved the squad and first 11 if we decided to spend the money we had instead of putting it all up for Sancho.
Remember, Ed is the one who gave Jones a new contract. Even Arsenal let go of their own serial crock in Jack Wheelchair and West Ham terminated his contract after 2 years.
There is simply no point in replacing the manager when the structure above him is incompetent. Even the best managers would fail.
———
Where does that logic end though? Do we not replace underperforming players because the structure is incompetent?
The only way we’re going to ever get back to the glory days is if we have everyone in every position, whether that’s players, managers, chairmen etc be the best people we can get for the role.
I think ultimately, if Sancho REALLY wanted to be at United he would have been here now.
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
"Transfer or salary cap is way overdue"
It's actually a cap on agents fees that's required. They run the game at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this will actually happen next year. Which is a good idea.
Transfer and salary cap is a bad idea. It’d just put more money in the hands of the owners rather than the people that play the game.
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 5 minutes ago
I think ultimately, if Sancho REALLY wanted to be at United he would have been here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s still young. I’d imagine he would have been fine joining us but next summer he may have many more options, and ones at clubs which aren’t as much of a mess as ours
He'll be joining in January with Traore going to Dortmund on an 18 month loan.
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 5 minutes ago
He'll be joining in January with Traore going to Dortmund on an 18 month loan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s trending on the Daily Mail, the Age and Sky Sports now
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
"Transfer or salary cap is way overdue"
It's actually a cap on agents fees that's required. They run the game at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this will actually happen next year. Which is a good idea.
Transfer and salary cap is a bad idea. It’d just put more money in the hands of the owners rather than the people that play the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How's it going to work though?
comment by Robb Pochettino (U22311)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 5 minutes ago
He'll be joining in January with Traore going to Dortmund on an 18 month loan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s trending on the Daily Mail, the Age and Sky Sports now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What shirt number did he end up with anyway? Looking forward to watching his debut.
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
"Transfer or salary cap is way overdue"
It's actually a cap on agents fees that's required. They run the game at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this will actually happen next year. Which is a good idea.
Transfer and salary cap is a bad idea. It’d just put more money in the hands of the owners rather than the people that play the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How's it going to work though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure, could be a total cap or a percentage. But it’s meant to be coming, it was apparently one of the reasons Sancho’s agent wanted so much.
We need quality defenders and CDM, imagine what you could do with 200m.
Sancho was not required
comment by Robb Pochettino (U22311)
posted 4 hours, 14 minutes ago
There is simply no point in replacing the manager when the structure above him is incompetent. Even the best managers would fail.
———
Where does that logic end though? Do we not replace underperforming players because the structure is incompetent?
The only way we’re going to ever get back to the glory days is if we have everyone in every position, whether that’s players, managers, chairmen etc be the best people we can get for the role.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the same thing with underperforming players or the lines of logic you're following. And we're unable to get rid of them at the moment.
Unless the top isn't changed, the structure for the next manager will not support him as it hasn't with the current and previous managers. All we'll do is end up repeating the same thing. There has already been restructuring at other levels at the club. Look at our youth and u23s now compared to a few years ago.
The other option is to try and luck out and then take it from there.
It is a similar thing with underperforming players actually. Especially when you look at how many signings have failed at the club because of the exact structure that had failed the managers.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
It is a similar thing with underperforming players actually. Especially when you look at how many signings have failed at the club because of the exact structure that had failed the managers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar, maybe, but not the same. There are different factors to a player failing than a manager.
In the context of United it’s clearly as big a factor as it is with the manager. But it’s not really a good argument that works for either, as some players have done better than others as have the managers. Just because the structure doesn’t work well enough doesn’t mean you stick with players and managers that don’t either.
A better structure identifies a better manager who identifies better players or improves what he's got. I know that sounds simplistic but I think we so need to get back to basics. To his credit I think Ole is trying to do that.
I think with the three seperate entities of board, manager and players you need at least two of them being good at least to succeed. You can get away with a poor board if you have a decent manager and players but if you have it right at the top then everything else usually follows. Look how relatively quickly LFC turned it round with better owners, manager and then players. They lost 6-1 at Stoke last day of 2015 and look at them just three years later in a CL Final. It can be done if the will is there.
To win anything big again under the current regime will take a massive effort I think.
I don’t see why some people can’t see that while slating Ed, maybe just maybe one of the things that can be levelled/attributed to him is also the hiring of Ole.
Another one of his bad decisions.
comment by Robb Pochettino (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
I don’t see why some people can’t see that while slating Ed, maybe just maybe one of the things that can be levelled/attributed to him is also the hiring of Ole.
Another one of his bad decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was meant as a caretaker role but he did so well initially it sort of pushed Ed into a corner. I think we all got swept away really but as fans that's understandable. However, for Ed is was a failure in some ways as if he did have a manager he wanted then he should have carried that through.
I do think Ole has done OK so far though but I'm willing to criticise when required and I'm also realistic to realise his tenure as manager can go either way from this point. I do think he has the right idea though but whether he can carry it through is still open for judgement.
On another forum today I saw something that made me think. Might be worth an article one day. The concept of ‘deserved’.
The point was about Ole but it can be about pretty much anything related in football and beyond. The argument was that people thought Ole ‘deserved’ to keep his job but that a football club that wants to win things and move forward should always employ the best possible person for the role. And that someone ‘deserving’ a job isn’t really a reason to keep them there.
It’s a funny word. Does it hold as much weight as people think in this context?
I do think he has the right idea though but whether he can carry it through is still open for judgement.
-----
That's why I'd like to see a DoF come in before he gets replaced. That way, even if he is gone the work he's put in can be built on rather than torn apart and starting over.
Without getting into semantics, no not really. What’s more is that I don’t the argument by many is that he actually deserves the job, it’s more that he doesn’t deserve the sack.
This is problematic, as by framing the argument that way it’s being suggested that you have to be doing a really bad job to deserve the sack.
But what that’s doing is deflecting from the idea that you should be very good at your job to be working for Manchester United.
If we can accept that Woodward and many players aren’t very good at their job, so should be replaced by someone that is, why is it so hard to understand that the same applies to the manager?
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 7 seconds ago
Without getting into semantics, no not really. What’s more is that I don’t the argument by many is that he actually deserves the job, it’s more that he doesn’t deserve the sack.
This is problematic, as by framing the argument that way it’s being suggested that you have to be doing a really bad job to deserve the sack.
But what that’s doing is deflecting from the idea that you should be very good at your job to be working for Manchester United.
If we can accept that Woodward and many players aren’t very good at their job, so should be replaced by someone that is, why is it so hard to understand that the same applies to the manager?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
👍
Sign in if you want to comment
227M for Sancho
Page 3 of 4
posted on 7/10/20
OK...
a waste of time and space
posted on 7/10/20
comment by RB&W (U21434)
posted 2 minutes ago
OK...
a waste of time and space
----------------------------------------------------------------------
😂 Keep on buying into the propaganda. One day the penny will drop.
posted on 7/10/20
There were also reports that we asked Sancho to take a pay cut. (source: The Sun, Metro, The Daily Mail)
Pretty much both United and Dortmund are putting out news and their own propaganda.
United’s problems aren't that they didn't sign Sancho. Their issues are that those in charge of signings don't have a way of going about it. If the player/club aren't willing, you'd move onto other targets. Look at how quick other clubs have moved and compare it to United and you see a fundamental lack of proper planning, going all the way back to when Ed first took charge.
I know a few posters here would love Ole to be sacked and replaced by Poch but Poch will end the same way as Ole is heading, Jose did, LVG did and Moyes. There is simply no point in replacing the manager when the structure above him is incompetent. Even the best managers would fail.
You'd have thought, after the fiasco with getting Ighalo on loan, and missing out on Fernandes in the summer, that they'd right the wrongs this time. If Ed wasn't willing to match the price, he should have moved on. We should have looked at other targets. But it seems that its the same mistakes being repeated again and again.
My biggest issue with Ed and Judge is that we could have improved the squad and first 11 if we decided to spend the money we had instead of putting it all up for Sancho.
Remember, Ed is the one who gave Jones a new contract. Even Arsenal let go of their own serial crock in Jack Wheelchair and West Ham terminated his contract after 2 years.
posted on 7/10/20
There is simply no point in replacing the manager when the structure above him is incompetent. Even the best managers would fail.
———
Where does that logic end though? Do we not replace underperforming players because the structure is incompetent?
The only way we’re going to ever get back to the glory days is if we have everyone in every position, whether that’s players, managers, chairmen etc be the best people we can get for the role.
posted on 7/10/20
I think ultimately, if Sancho REALLY wanted to be at United he would have been here now.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
"Transfer or salary cap is way overdue"
It's actually a cap on agents fees that's required. They run the game at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this will actually happen next year. Which is a good idea.
Transfer and salary cap is a bad idea. It’d just put more money in the hands of the owners rather than the people that play the game.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Barf Vader (U15867)
posted 5 minutes ago
I think ultimately, if Sancho REALLY wanted to be at United he would have been here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s still young. I’d imagine he would have been fine joining us but next summer he may have many more options, and ones at clubs which aren’t as much of a mess as ours
posted on 7/10/20
He'll be joining in January with Traore going to Dortmund on an 18 month loan.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 5 minutes ago
He'll be joining in January with Traore going to Dortmund on an 18 month loan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s trending on the Daily Mail, the Age and Sky Sports now
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
"Transfer or salary cap is way overdue"
It's actually a cap on agents fees that's required. They run the game at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this will actually happen next year. Which is a good idea.
Transfer and salary cap is a bad idea. It’d just put more money in the hands of the owners rather than the people that play the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How's it going to work though?
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Robb Pochettino (U22311)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 (U2462)
posted 5 minutes ago
He'll be joining in January with Traore going to Dortmund on an 18 month loan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s trending on the Daily Mail, the Age and Sky Sports now
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 7/10/20
What shirt number did he end up with anyway? Looking forward to watching his debut.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by *Michael Edwards FC {Proud owner of the 5 000 000th comment} (U2720)
posted 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
"Transfer or salary cap is way overdue"
It's actually a cap on agents fees that's required. They run the game at the moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently this will actually happen next year. Which is a good idea.
Transfer and salary cap is a bad idea. It’d just put more money in the hands of the owners rather than the people that play the game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How's it going to work though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not sure, could be a total cap or a percentage. But it’s meant to be coming, it was apparently one of the reasons Sancho’s agent wanted so much.
posted on 7/10/20
We need quality defenders and CDM, imagine what you could do with 200m.
Sancho was not required
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Robb Pochettino (U22311)
posted 4 hours, 14 minutes ago
There is simply no point in replacing the manager when the structure above him is incompetent. Even the best managers would fail.
———
Where does that logic end though? Do we not replace underperforming players because the structure is incompetent?
The only way we’re going to ever get back to the glory days is if we have everyone in every position, whether that’s players, managers, chairmen etc be the best people we can get for the role.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not the same thing with underperforming players or the lines of logic you're following. And we're unable to get rid of them at the moment.
Unless the top isn't changed, the structure for the next manager will not support him as it hasn't with the current and previous managers. All we'll do is end up repeating the same thing. There has already been restructuring at other levels at the club. Look at our youth and u23s now compared to a few years ago.
The other option is to try and luck out and then take it from there.
posted on 7/10/20
It is a similar thing with underperforming players actually. Especially when you look at how many signings have failed at the club because of the exact structure that had failed the managers.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
It is a similar thing with underperforming players actually. Especially when you look at how many signings have failed at the club because of the exact structure that had failed the managers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Similar, maybe, but not the same. There are different factors to a player failing than a manager.
posted on 7/10/20
In the context of United it’s clearly as big a factor as it is with the manager. But it’s not really a good argument that works for either, as some players have done better than others as have the managers. Just because the structure doesn’t work well enough doesn’t mean you stick with players and managers that don’t either.
posted on 7/10/20
A better structure identifies a better manager who identifies better players or improves what he's got. I know that sounds simplistic but I think we so need to get back to basics. To his credit I think Ole is trying to do that.
I think with the three seperate entities of board, manager and players you need at least two of them being good at least to succeed. You can get away with a poor board if you have a decent manager and players but if you have it right at the top then everything else usually follows. Look how relatively quickly LFC turned it round with better owners, manager and then players. They lost 6-1 at Stoke last day of 2015 and look at them just three years later in a CL Final. It can be done if the will is there.
To win anything big again under the current regime will take a massive effort I think.
posted on 7/10/20
I don’t see why some people can’t see that while slating Ed, maybe just maybe one of the things that can be levelled/attributed to him is also the hiring of Ole.
Another one of his bad decisions.
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Robb Pochettino (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
I don’t see why some people can’t see that while slating Ed, maybe just maybe one of the things that can be levelled/attributed to him is also the hiring of Ole.
Another one of his bad decisions.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was meant as a caretaker role but he did so well initially it sort of pushed Ed into a corner. I think we all got swept away really but as fans that's understandable. However, for Ed is was a failure in some ways as if he did have a manager he wanted then he should have carried that through.
I do think Ole has done OK so far though but I'm willing to criticise when required and I'm also realistic to realise his tenure as manager can go either way from this point. I do think he has the right idea though but whether he can carry it through is still open for judgement.
posted on 7/10/20
On another forum today I saw something that made me think. Might be worth an article one day. The concept of ‘deserved’.
The point was about Ole but it can be about pretty much anything related in football and beyond. The argument was that people thought Ole ‘deserved’ to keep his job but that a football club that wants to win things and move forward should always employ the best possible person for the role. And that someone ‘deserving’ a job isn’t really a reason to keep them there.
It’s a funny word. Does it hold as much weight as people think in this context?
posted on 7/10/20
I do think he has the right idea though but whether he can carry it through is still open for judgement.
-----
That's why I'd like to see a DoF come in before he gets replaced. That way, even if he is gone the work he's put in can be built on rather than torn apart and starting over.
posted on 7/10/20
Without getting into semantics, no not really. What’s more is that I don’t the argument by many is that he actually deserves the job, it’s more that he doesn’t deserve the sack.
This is problematic, as by framing the argument that way it’s being suggested that you have to be doing a really bad job to deserve the sack.
But what that’s doing is deflecting from the idea that you should be very good at your job to be working for Manchester United.
If we can accept that Woodward and many players aren’t very good at their job, so should be replaced by someone that is, why is it so hard to understand that the same applies to the manager?
posted on 7/10/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 7 seconds ago
Without getting into semantics, no not really. What’s more is that I don’t the argument by many is that he actually deserves the job, it’s more that he doesn’t deserve the sack.
This is problematic, as by framing the argument that way it’s being suggested that you have to be doing a really bad job to deserve the sack.
But what that’s doing is deflecting from the idea that you should be very good at your job to be working for Manchester United.
If we can accept that Woodward and many players aren’t very good at their job, so should be replaced by someone that is, why is it so hard to understand that the same applies to the manager?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
👍
Page 3 of 4