Pele great player but Maradona for me, Pele never played in Europe and played in a great side I could name all the 70 team, Argentina 1986 couldn’t name one, I remember they had a few with long hair who took people out at the waist,
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 21 minutes ago
You also forget he played in a team with Sly Stallone as Goalie and Michael Caine as Captain and didn’t lose.
Gotta get bonus points for that..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ossie Ardiles carried that team, Pele spent the game just looking for his Hollywood moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pele got the carp kicked and punched the hell out of him all game, and had to go off. Cos Wark and Caine we’re having a mare in midfield, Ardiles hardly touched the ball.
Check his heat map, nothing!
A mashed up Pele comes back, and Suddenly Ardiles has the confidence to flick the ball over the def, and produce a sublime cross.
Pele MotM.
Russell Osman MotM actually.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 10 minutes ago
Russell Osman MotM actually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair he did having a great 2nd half, after conceding 4 in the first half, and had great hair.
Fat Ronaldo a better player than Pele
comment by gelderd82 (U6817)
posted 18 seconds ago
Fat Ronaldo a better player than Pele
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First off He’s my fav Striker/Forward of all time.
2nd, put respect on his name.
Cos of CR7, imo this is how it should be addressed,
Real Ronaldo R9 - Unreal Ronaldo CR7
Very difficult to compare these players. Quality of leagues, the football itself, was different, of course.
How did they fare compared to the others, in their own time.
I have not seen Ronaldo or Messi tearing up the WC as Cruyff, Pele or Maradona has done. And that to me is the marker. When you face all of the best players in the world. In one tournament.
Ardilles was also sublime. Must have been one of the best ever.
It's easy to forget about the defensive players, when talking about the best in the world. If you are the best attacker in the world, does it mean you are the best footballer in the world?
Maybe rather, the best in your position on the pitch?
How would Best compare?
Wonder how he'd have done if he actually played in any decent sides?
Well the standard thinking is Scoring is the hardest thing to do.
Defs are still not on an equal footing to an attacker, it’s not what we first think of when talking the beautiful game. Who ever wanted to be a defender?
The elation of scoring is totally different to a well timed tackle or a defence splitting pass from Mid.
But any football lover will pay the highest respect, cos they know when they are seeing a quality player.
You can’t award everyone, but it shouldn’t diminish that player and their values and the respect they deserve.
Well, as a young man I liked playing in defence. Liked the challenge of stopping attackers getting passed me.
They say attack is the most difficult. Maybe because they are facing some very very good players, down there in the defence. And quality goalkeepers.
I like to think that every position has their best players. No one can be the best in all areas.
We all like to watch attacking football, and see goals. So attackers are more likely to be seen as stand out players
It would seem there are a lot of "Little Englanders" about....
"Never did it in a proper league"
"He didn't test himself in any of the major leagues"
"never tested in a major league"
"Coward who was terrified of being exposed in a tougher league"
"how many of Brazil's 82 WC squad played in Europe?"
etc, etc, etc.....
A rather narrow minded and xenophobic opinion that Europe is the only place that any good players ply their trade.
Just because it's not reported in the Super,Sizzling,Soaraway Sun doesn't mean it's the equivalent of Junior school football.
HE WON 3 (THREE) WORLD CUPS!
Brazil were the greatest footballing side in Peles time, all the players played in Brazil, but it was a "farmers league"
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 16 minutes ago
Brazil were the greatest footballing side in Peles time, all the players played in Brazil, but it was a "farmers league"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
precisely
good thread and lots of good points by peks.
i saw pele play live although just for the cosmos he was still very entertaining.
I look at players from the past like pele and to me due to the way the game has changed these players don't match up to the modern players.
The overall standard of football today and what is needed to be a top player is so much higher then it was then, that actually while those players were top class then they wouldn't stick out as much today.
Same with heavyweight boxers, all the greats from the 70s and 80s today would either be cruiserweights or giving up such a height and reach advantage that they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they were back then.
So much science goes into sports today its not anywhere near comparable, yet we do it because we are suckers for nostalgia.
comment by Sgt Wilko 92 (U5983)
posted 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
I'm in my mid 60's, so I saw Pele's impact at the World Cups he played in, but that's only every 4 years. He didn't test himself in any of the major leagues, which is why whilst he was a great player, I would definitely place Maradona and Messi above him and put him alonside players like Beckenbauer and Cruyff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Santos was a cracking team, Wilko, and Pele was the best. His consistency , quality and raw power place him at the very top of the world's best. The Brazil team of 1970 was the best the world has seen. It was beautifully balanced and efficient, and Pele was at the heart of it. He was also a consummate sportsman, and his warm commiseration with Bobby Moore after Brazil beat England was something you could never imagine Maradonna doing. Memories are short. Maradonna was not fit to tie his shoelaces.
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 49 minutes ago
I look at players from the past like pele and to me due to the way the game has changed these players don't match up to the modern players.
The overall standard of football today and what is needed to be a top player is so much higher then it was then, that actually while those players were top class then they wouldn't stick out as much today.
Same with heavyweight boxers, all the greats from the 70s and 80s today would either be cruiserweights or giving up such a height and reach advantage that they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they were back then.
So much science goes into sports today its not anywhere near comparable, yet we do it because we are suckers for nostalgia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You always need to see them in context with the their contemporaries
I read the OP and was looking forward to adding my support for the choice of Michael brown until I realised he hadn’t won any world cups
Time always makes history look better than it was.
Take the World Cup 90 England side.
Everyone raves about it.
We won once in seven games, in 90 mins. Against Egypt.
Group stages
Struggled against Ireland
Struggled against the Dutch, who were self imploding
Scrape past Egypt.
Got out played for 119 mins against Belgium and saved by last minute wonder goal.
Was 7 mins away from getting knocked out to Cameroon, needed two pens to get through in extra time
Played well against Germany and was unlucky
Outplayed against Italy in play off.
Yet everyone raves about it, like it was great.
The tension was great and my first World Cup as a boy. But go back and watch it again.
And I think it’s the same with players
Messi and Ronaldo will in 30 years, being remember a lot fondly then now.
Messi and Ronaldo will in 30 years, being remember a lot fondly then now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
crap liw most people on here already cream themselves about messi and ronaldo.
as for england not being english i thought they were average at best.
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 3 hours ago
I look at players from the past like pele and to me due to the way the game has changed these players don't match up to the modern players.
The overall standard of football today and what is needed to be a top player is so much higher then it was then, that actually while those players were top class then they wouldn't stick out as much today.
Same with heavyweight boxers, all the greats from the 70s and 80s today would either be cruiserweights or giving up such a height and reach advantage that they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they were back then.
So much science goes into sports today its not anywhere near comparable, yet we do it because we are suckers for nostalgia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
don't quite agree with this matty. to compare we either have to bring the training of today back to yesteryear or plop todays player back in time with the way they trained then. what makes the best players in any era (and any sport) is their brain.
Nostalgia? - Go and look at the documentary about a South American Manager who prepared his team to the nth degree including a very strict fitness regime - sounds strangely familiar, his name wasn't Marcelo Bielsa it was Mario Zagallo.
Nostalgia - English football from 73 to 80 basically hoof ball due to lack of talent and the ploughed fields supposedly pitches.
The teams that did well in Europe were primarily made up of non English players.
Nostalgia - no chance.
Argentina 1986 couldn’t name one
=====
Always find it a bit surprising people say this. Obviously Maradona was a few classes above everyone else (not just in the Argentina side), but Valdano, Burrachaga, Ruggeri are quite memorable players and Pumpido and Brown definitely spring to mind.
England/Britain had a chance to learn but didn't take it!..
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54839305
And yes I know some will have seen this because I read it about a week ago, but if you haven't seen it it is interesting!..
have to agree with matty (in parts)
sports science has changed sport - these times are much different to the times diago played in.. so to compare is a little unfair.
I saw some footage of diefgo collecting the world cup, I looked at his body, a little podgy, even.. he just wouldn't of been able to last the first half mixed with footballers of today.
Billy Bremner, a Leeds hero and total legend, used to have a cig before a game then one at HT..
times have changed, but to 'compare' you can only look at acheivments of the player, but thats the only thing that hasn't changed..
and its quite recent too this change - imagine a centre half pairing of Bruce and Pallister these days? - that was only what 25 years ago?
All sports have had this change, love my cricket, players in todays game are athletes.. (Cornwell for the windies aside )... long gone are the days you put your fatties at slip
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The Greatest Player That Ever Lived?
Page 2 of 3
posted on 26/11/20
Pele great player but Maradona for me, Pele never played in Europe and played in a great side I could name all the 70 team, Argentina 1986 couldn’t name one, I remember they had a few with long hair who took people out at the waist,
posted on 26/11/20
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by StringerBell (U11749)
posted 21 minutes ago
You also forget he played in a team with Sly Stallone as Goalie and Michael Caine as Captain and didn’t lose.
Gotta get bonus points for that..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ossie Ardiles carried that team, Pele spent the game just looking for his Hollywood moment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pele got the carp kicked and punched the hell out of him all game, and had to go off. Cos Wark and Caine we’re having a mare in midfield, Ardiles hardly touched the ball.
Check his heat map, nothing!
A mashed up Pele comes back, and Suddenly Ardiles has the confidence to flick the ball over the def, and produce a sublime cross.
Pele MotM.
posted on 26/11/20
Russell Osman MotM actually.
posted on 26/11/20
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 10 minutes ago
Russell Osman MotM actually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair he did having a great 2nd half, after conceding 4 in the first half, and had great hair.
posted on 26/11/20
Fat Ronaldo a better player than Pele
posted on 26/11/20
comment by gelderd82 (U6817)
posted 18 seconds ago
Fat Ronaldo a better player than Pele
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First off He’s my fav Striker/Forward of all time.
2nd, put respect on his name.
Cos of CR7, imo this is how it should be addressed,
Real Ronaldo R9 - Unreal Ronaldo CR7
posted on 26/11/20
Very difficult to compare these players. Quality of leagues, the football itself, was different, of course.
How did they fare compared to the others, in their own time.
I have not seen Ronaldo or Messi tearing up the WC as Cruyff, Pele or Maradona has done. And that to me is the marker. When you face all of the best players in the world. In one tournament.
Ardilles was also sublime. Must have been one of the best ever.
It's easy to forget about the defensive players, when talking about the best in the world. If you are the best attacker in the world, does it mean you are the best footballer in the world?
Maybe rather, the best in your position on the pitch?
posted on 26/11/20
How would Best compare?
Wonder how he'd have done if he actually played in any decent sides?
posted on 26/11/20
Well the standard thinking is Scoring is the hardest thing to do.
Defs are still not on an equal footing to an attacker, it’s not what we first think of when talking the beautiful game. Who ever wanted to be a defender?
The elation of scoring is totally different to a well timed tackle or a defence splitting pass from Mid.
But any football lover will pay the highest respect, cos they know when they are seeing a quality player.
You can’t award everyone, but it shouldn’t diminish that player and their values and the respect they deserve.
posted on 26/11/20
Well, as a young man I liked playing in defence. Liked the challenge of stopping attackers getting passed me.
They say attack is the most difficult. Maybe because they are facing some very very good players, down there in the defence. And quality goalkeepers.
I like to think that every position has their best players. No one can be the best in all areas.
We all like to watch attacking football, and see goals. So attackers are more likely to be seen as stand out players
posted on 26/11/20
It would seem there are a lot of "Little Englanders" about....
"Never did it in a proper league"
"He didn't test himself in any of the major leagues"
"never tested in a major league"
"Coward who was terrified of being exposed in a tougher league"
"how many of Brazil's 82 WC squad played in Europe?"
etc, etc, etc.....
A rather narrow minded and xenophobic opinion that Europe is the only place that any good players ply their trade.
Just because it's not reported in the Super,Sizzling,Soaraway Sun doesn't mean it's the equivalent of Junior school football.
HE WON 3 (THREE) WORLD CUPS!
posted on 26/11/20
Brazil were the greatest footballing side in Peles time, all the players played in Brazil, but it was a "farmers league"
posted on 26/11/20
comment by D'Jeezus Mackaroni (U1137)
posted 16 minutes ago
Brazil were the greatest footballing side in Peles time, all the players played in Brazil, but it was a "farmers league"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
precisely
posted on 26/11/20
good thread and lots of good points by peks.
i saw pele play live although just for the cosmos he was still very entertaining.
posted on 26/11/20
I look at players from the past like pele and to me due to the way the game has changed these players don't match up to the modern players.
The overall standard of football today and what is needed to be a top player is so much higher then it was then, that actually while those players were top class then they wouldn't stick out as much today.
Same with heavyweight boxers, all the greats from the 70s and 80s today would either be cruiserweights or giving up such a height and reach advantage that they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they were back then.
So much science goes into sports today its not anywhere near comparable, yet we do it because we are suckers for nostalgia.
posted on 26/11/20
comment by Sgt Wilko 92 (U5983)
posted 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
I'm in my mid 60's, so I saw Pele's impact at the World Cups he played in, but that's only every 4 years. He didn't test himself in any of the major leagues, which is why whilst he was a great player, I would definitely place Maradona and Messi above him and put him alonside players like Beckenbauer and Cruyff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Santos was a cracking team, Wilko, and Pele was the best. His consistency , quality and raw power place him at the very top of the world's best. The Brazil team of 1970 was the best the world has seen. It was beautifully balanced and efficient, and Pele was at the heart of it. He was also a consummate sportsman, and his warm commiseration with Bobby Moore after Brazil beat England was something you could never imagine Maradonna doing. Memories are short. Maradonna was not fit to tie his shoelaces.
posted on 26/11/20
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 49 minutes ago
I look at players from the past like pele and to me due to the way the game has changed these players don't match up to the modern players.
The overall standard of football today and what is needed to be a top player is so much higher then it was then, that actually while those players were top class then they wouldn't stick out as much today.
Same with heavyweight boxers, all the greats from the 70s and 80s today would either be cruiserweights or giving up such a height and reach advantage that they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they were back then.
So much science goes into sports today its not anywhere near comparable, yet we do it because we are suckers for nostalgia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You always need to see them in context with the their contemporaries
posted on 26/11/20
I read the OP and was looking forward to adding my support for the choice of Michael brown until I realised he hadn’t won any world cups
posted on 26/11/20
Time always makes history look better than it was.
Take the World Cup 90 England side.
Everyone raves about it.
We won once in seven games, in 90 mins. Against Egypt.
Group stages
Struggled against Ireland
Struggled against the Dutch, who were self imploding
Scrape past Egypt.
Got out played for 119 mins against Belgium and saved by last minute wonder goal.
Was 7 mins away from getting knocked out to Cameroon, needed two pens to get through in extra time
Played well against Germany and was unlucky
Outplayed against Italy in play off.
Yet everyone raves about it, like it was great.
The tension was great and my first World Cup as a boy. But go back and watch it again.
And I think it’s the same with players
Messi and Ronaldo will in 30 years, being remember a lot fondly then now.
posted on 26/11/20
Messi and Ronaldo will in 30 years, being remember a lot fondly then now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
crap liw most people on here already cream themselves about messi and ronaldo.
as for england not being english i thought they were average at best.
posted on 26/11/20
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 3 hours ago
I look at players from the past like pele and to me due to the way the game has changed these players don't match up to the modern players.
The overall standard of football today and what is needed to be a top player is so much higher then it was then, that actually while those players were top class then they wouldn't stick out as much today.
Same with heavyweight boxers, all the greats from the 70s and 80s today would either be cruiserweights or giving up such a height and reach advantage that they wouldn't be anywhere near as successful as they were back then.
So much science goes into sports today its not anywhere near comparable, yet we do it because we are suckers for nostalgia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
don't quite agree with this matty. to compare we either have to bring the training of today back to yesteryear or plop todays player back in time with the way they trained then. what makes the best players in any era (and any sport) is their brain.
posted on 26/11/20
Nostalgia? - Go and look at the documentary about a South American Manager who prepared his team to the nth degree including a very strict fitness regime - sounds strangely familiar, his name wasn't Marcelo Bielsa it was Mario Zagallo.
Nostalgia - English football from 73 to 80 basically hoof ball due to lack of talent and the ploughed fields supposedly pitches.
The teams that did well in Europe were primarily made up of non English players.
Nostalgia - no chance.
posted on 26/11/20
Argentina 1986 couldn’t name one
=====
Always find it a bit surprising people say this. Obviously Maradona was a few classes above everyone else (not just in the Argentina side), but Valdano, Burrachaga, Ruggeri are quite memorable players and Pumpido and Brown definitely spring to mind.
posted on 26/11/20
England/Britain had a chance to learn but didn't take it!..
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54839305
And yes I know some will have seen this because I read it about a week ago, but if you haven't seen it it is interesting!..
posted on 27/11/20
have to agree with matty (in parts)
sports science has changed sport - these times are much different to the times diago played in.. so to compare is a little unfair.
I saw some footage of diefgo collecting the world cup, I looked at his body, a little podgy, even.. he just wouldn't of been able to last the first half mixed with footballers of today.
Billy Bremner, a Leeds hero and total legend, used to have a cig before a game then one at HT..
times have changed, but to 'compare' you can only look at acheivments of the player, but thats the only thing that hasn't changed..
and its quite recent too this change - imagine a centre half pairing of Bruce and Pallister these days? - that was only what 25 years ago?
All sports have had this change, love my cricket, players in todays game are athletes.. (Cornwell for the windies aside )... long gone are the days you put your fatties at slip
Page 2 of 3