Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs your club is 20th when it comes to goals conceded.
This suggests that yesterdays result wasn't just a bad day at the office
By general consent Bielsa is a great coach, radical, great motivator and very respected by coaches in Europe and Argentina.
But is he a great tactician?
Is he naive, determined to stick to his principles no matter what the result, play the same system with a core of players successful in the Championship, but does that system translate to the more tactically sophisticated Premier league with better coaches and players?
I think it's concerning and slightly ridiculous that a great coach doesn't have a Plan B, if that is the case, that he can't or won't change tactics if circumstances, or poor results suggest a change of system that can improve results or improve a conceding defence.
Why do posters on the forum insist he won't change tactics, that he has to stick to man to man marking no matter what the result is, even a bad defeat and conceding too many goals?
You can still play exciting, attractive football if you have to revert to the tried and tested systems of 442 or 433. These playing systems provide a basic foundation of good defence to build the team from, most successful teams, current and past start building the team from strong defence.
I think Bielsa's playing philosophy looks good when we win but bloody awful when we lose....too many holes left in defence, exposed by opposing coaches and their teams...and now imo it's happening on a more regular basis....I don't enjoy watching the team, whatever system they play, especially a bad defeat like yesterday's!
Consider the effect of more defeats with 2/3/4 clear goals could have on the psychology of the team ethos, on players. How many more bad defeats does it take for senior players to question the tactics of Bielsa?
Start questioning with the theme of will he be with us next season, why is he keeping his options open?
Yes, the media pundits are full of praise and generosity for the cavalier playing style, but they're neutrals and most of them do not want to offend watching fans, but they want to keep their positions as pundits, I suspect in private they're much more critical of Biels's tactics.
I've heard gushing commentaries of Sheffield United and Chris Wilder....they have 2pts from a possible 42.
Fair play to him. He's saying 'you know what we're going to do, but we're going to do it anyway, it's up to you to stop us '
Bit like Holloway did with Blackpool. There'll be at least three teams below you, even if the rest of the division work you out though, I wouldn't worry.
MB viewed his thoughts on a plan B the other day, people may not agree but he isn't changing and he articulates it well:
______
"A 'Plan B' is like an anxiolytic, something which can reduce anxiety," he says. "What I want to happen hasn't happened, so I demand that you stop what you are doing and you do something different.
"Obviously, if that something different turns out to be effective, it will be seen as a success. But from my point of view, what you have to decide as a manager is whether to completely replace the structure you are trying to build, or whether to just correct what doesn't work about it.
"Every manager has his own profile and they try to maintain that profile while conserving the things that are good and removing the things that aren't. There are very few managers who jump from one style to another and that's because establishing a style of play is very, very difficult and is linked to your way of interpreting football.
"This is not intended as a criticism of anyone, but if someone stops thinking the way they think and starts doing the opposite, then that is difficult to make work in football. To give up on your convictions is not a good way to move a project forward."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11715/12166333/marcelo-bielsa-exclusive-interview-no-compromises-on-leeds-playing-style-ahead-of-man-utd-showdown
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs your club is 20th when it comes to goals conceded.
This suggests that yesterdays result wasn't just a bad day at the office
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs Leeds is 8th when it comes to goals scored. So your point is?
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
comment by NJS (U8272)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
By general consent Bielsa is a great coach, radical, great motivator and very respected by coaches in Europe and Argentina.
But is he a great tactician?
Is he naive, determined to stick to his principles no matter what the result, play the same system with a core of players successful in the Championship, but does that system translate to the more tactically sophisticated Premier league with better coaches and players?
I think it's concerning and slightly ridiculous that a great coach doesn't have a Plan B, if that is the case, that he can't or won't change tactics if circumstances, or poor results suggest a change of system that can improve results or improve a conceding defence.
Why do posters on the forum insist he won't change tactics, that he has to stick to man to man marking no matter what the result is, even a bad defeat and conceding too many goals?
You can still play exciting, attractive football if you have to revert to the tried and tested systems of 442 or 433. These playing systems provide a basic foundation of good defence to build the team from, most successful teams, current and past start building the team from strong defence.
I think Bielsa's playing philosophy looks good when we win but bloody awful when we lose....too many holes left in defence, exposed by opposing coaches and their teams...and now imo it's happening on a more regular basis....I don't enjoy watching the team, whatever system they play, especially a bad defeat like yesterday's!
Consider the effect of more defeats with 2/3/4 clear goals could have on the psychology of the team ethos, on players. How many more bad defeats does it take for senior players to question the tactics of Bielsa?
Start questioning with the theme of will he be with us next season, why is he keeping his options open?
Yes, the media pundits are full of praise and generosity for the cavalier playing style, but they're neutrals and most of them do not want to offend watching fans, but they want to keep their positions as pundits, I suspect in private they're much more critical of Biels's tactics.
I've heard gushing commentaries of Sheffield United and Chris Wilder....they have 2pts from a possible 42.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea it sounds very concerning not to have a plan b. That’s what everyone else does and is the norm.
But we’ve had 2.5years of evidence that this way wins the team many more points than the standard of players would normally earn. So why change that. Let go of your preconceptions and trust the evidence.
Go to the Thai forum then
Bielsa v Dyche. Absolute contrast of styles, who will come out on top though?
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 11 hours, 33 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Goals Against column does not lie. We have conceded at least 4 goals in heading towards 30% of our games. (28.57%).
That suggests more than a midfield issue.
It suggests that we are become increasingly predictable as to how we play and therefore about how we can be carved open and scored against:
Thanks guys for all your contributions.
keep calm & carry on Mr Bielsa, we are a dream to watch and i'm loving it
Some context to the goals against is needed if we are going to analyse it.
We do have weaknesses in defence, especially in set pieces.
But it is inflated by games when we are chasing the game - we push players forward to try get back into it and then concede on the counter like on Sunday, and against Leicester, Palace, Chelsea. Not saying it's okay but just a result of the way Leeds attack when other managers would throw the towel in and try to keep the score down. Bielsa's idea I guess is that to lose 3-1 is no different to 2-1, you need to attempt to get back into it.
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 11 hours, 58 minutes ago
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
have better cb's.
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 4 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 11 hours, 58 minutes ago
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
have better cb's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf......
Plan C - make sure players don’t get injured
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 4 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 11 hours, 58 minutes ago
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
have better cb's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf......
Plan C - make sure players don’t get injured
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that should be plan A
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 1 day ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs your club is 20th when it comes to goals conceded.
This suggests that yesterdays result wasn't just a bad day at the office
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs only 7 have scored more than us - which by your logic suggests we have many good days at the office.
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posted on 21/12/20
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
posted on 21/12/20
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs your club is 20th when it comes to goals conceded.
This suggests that yesterdays result wasn't just a bad day at the office
posted on 21/12/20
By general consent Bielsa is a great coach, radical, great motivator and very respected by coaches in Europe and Argentina.
But is he a great tactician?
Is he naive, determined to stick to his principles no matter what the result, play the same system with a core of players successful in the Championship, but does that system translate to the more tactically sophisticated Premier league with better coaches and players?
I think it's concerning and slightly ridiculous that a great coach doesn't have a Plan B, if that is the case, that he can't or won't change tactics if circumstances, or poor results suggest a change of system that can improve results or improve a conceding defence.
Why do posters on the forum insist he won't change tactics, that he has to stick to man to man marking no matter what the result is, even a bad defeat and conceding too many goals?
You can still play exciting, attractive football if you have to revert to the tried and tested systems of 442 or 433. These playing systems provide a basic foundation of good defence to build the team from, most successful teams, current and past start building the team from strong defence.
I think Bielsa's playing philosophy looks good when we win but bloody awful when we lose....too many holes left in defence, exposed by opposing coaches and their teams...and now imo it's happening on a more regular basis....I don't enjoy watching the team, whatever system they play, especially a bad defeat like yesterday's!
Consider the effect of more defeats with 2/3/4 clear goals could have on the psychology of the team ethos, on players. How many more bad defeats does it take for senior players to question the tactics of Bielsa?
Start questioning with the theme of will he be with us next season, why is he keeping his options open?
Yes, the media pundits are full of praise and generosity for the cavalier playing style, but they're neutrals and most of them do not want to offend watching fans, but they want to keep their positions as pundits, I suspect in private they're much more critical of Biels's tactics.
I've heard gushing commentaries of Sheffield United and Chris Wilder....they have 2pts from a possible 42.
posted on 21/12/20
Fair play to him. He's saying 'you know what we're going to do, but we're going to do it anyway, it's up to you to stop us '
Bit like Holloway did with Blackpool. There'll be at least three teams below you, even if the rest of the division work you out though, I wouldn't worry.
posted on 21/12/20
MB viewed his thoughts on a plan B the other day, people may not agree but he isn't changing and he articulates it well:
______
"A 'Plan B' is like an anxiolytic, something which can reduce anxiety," he says. "What I want to happen hasn't happened, so I demand that you stop what you are doing and you do something different.
"Obviously, if that something different turns out to be effective, it will be seen as a success. But from my point of view, what you have to decide as a manager is whether to completely replace the structure you are trying to build, or whether to just correct what doesn't work about it.
"Every manager has his own profile and they try to maintain that profile while conserving the things that are good and removing the things that aren't. There are very few managers who jump from one style to another and that's because establishing a style of play is very, very difficult and is linked to your way of interpreting football.
"This is not intended as a criticism of anyone, but if someone stops thinking the way they think and starts doing the opposite, then that is difficult to make work in football. To give up on your convictions is not a good way to move a project forward."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11715/12166333/marcelo-bielsa-exclusive-interview-no-compromises-on-leeds-playing-style-ahead-of-man-utd-showdown
posted on 21/12/20
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs your club is 20th when it comes to goals conceded.
This suggests that yesterdays result wasn't just a bad day at the office
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs Leeds is 8th when it comes to goals scored. So your point is?
posted on 21/12/20
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
posted on 22/12/20
comment by NJS (U8272)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
By general consent Bielsa is a great coach, radical, great motivator and very respected by coaches in Europe and Argentina.
But is he a great tactician?
Is he naive, determined to stick to his principles no matter what the result, play the same system with a core of players successful in the Championship, but does that system translate to the more tactically sophisticated Premier league with better coaches and players?
I think it's concerning and slightly ridiculous that a great coach doesn't have a Plan B, if that is the case, that he can't or won't change tactics if circumstances, or poor results suggest a change of system that can improve results or improve a conceding defence.
Why do posters on the forum insist he won't change tactics, that he has to stick to man to man marking no matter what the result is, even a bad defeat and conceding too many goals?
You can still play exciting, attractive football if you have to revert to the tried and tested systems of 442 or 433. These playing systems provide a basic foundation of good defence to build the team from, most successful teams, current and past start building the team from strong defence.
I think Bielsa's playing philosophy looks good when we win but bloody awful when we lose....too many holes left in defence, exposed by opposing coaches and their teams...and now imo it's happening on a more regular basis....I don't enjoy watching the team, whatever system they play, especially a bad defeat like yesterday's!
Consider the effect of more defeats with 2/3/4 clear goals could have on the psychology of the team ethos, on players. How many more bad defeats does it take for senior players to question the tactics of Bielsa?
Start questioning with the theme of will he be with us next season, why is he keeping his options open?
Yes, the media pundits are full of praise and generosity for the cavalier playing style, but they're neutrals and most of them do not want to offend watching fans, but they want to keep their positions as pundits, I suspect in private they're much more critical of Biels's tactics.
I've heard gushing commentaries of Sheffield United and Chris Wilder....they have 2pts from a possible 42.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea it sounds very concerning not to have a plan b. That’s what everyone else does and is the norm.
But we’ve had 2.5years of evidence that this way wins the team many more points than the standard of players would normally earn. So why change that. Let go of your preconceptions and trust the evidence.
posted on 22/12/20
Go to the Thai forum then
posted on 22/12/20
Bielsa v Dyche. Absolute contrast of styles, who will come out on top though?
posted on 22/12/20
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 11 hours, 33 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Goals Against column does not lie. We have conceded at least 4 goals in heading towards 30% of our games. (28.57%).
That suggests more than a midfield issue.
It suggests that we are become increasingly predictable as to how we play and therefore about how we can be carved open and scored against:
posted on 22/12/20
Thanks guys for all your contributions.
posted on 22/12/20
keep calm & carry on Mr Bielsa, we are a dream to watch and i'm loving it
posted on 22/12/20
Some context to the goals against is needed if we are going to analyse it.
We do have weaknesses in defence, especially in set pieces.
But it is inflated by games when we are chasing the game - we push players forward to try get back into it and then concede on the counter like on Sunday, and against Leicester, Palace, Chelsea. Not saying it's okay but just a result of the way Leeds attack when other managers would throw the towel in and try to keep the score down. Bielsa's idea I guess is that to lose 3-1 is no different to 2-1, you need to attempt to get back into it.
posted on 22/12/20
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 11 hours, 58 minutes ago
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
have better cb's.
posted on 22/12/20
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 4 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 11 hours, 58 minutes ago
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
have better cb's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf......
Plan C - make sure players don’t get injured
posted on 22/12/20
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 4 hours, 46 minutes ago
comment by Mattyp (U8926)
posted 11 hours, 58 minutes ago
Explain what you believe a plan B would be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
have better cb's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wtf......
Plan C - make sure players don’t get injured
----------------------------------------------------------------------
that should be plan A
posted on 22/12/20
comment by Colemanballs (U22246)
posted 1 day ago
comment by A14... ( ليدز_يونايتد )You gotta love it!! (U2805)
posted 14 minutes ago
Sorry not having it.
Remember, Ayling, Dallas, Cooper, Alioski, Phillips, Hernandez, Klich were all regular starters when we finished 13th in the Championship, only 2 years ago. We've come a long way, very quickly......
Liverpool shipped in 7, Man U 6, Burnley 5...... where was the talk of their style of play??? Fact is we were just way way off it yesterday and individual errors were punished. Cut out the basic mistakes and sloppiness in midfield then it’s a different story - nothing to do with playing style
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs your club is 20th when it comes to goals conceded.
This suggests that yesterdays result wasn't just a bad day at the office
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Out of 20 clubs only 7 have scored more than us - which by your logic suggests we have many good days at the office.
Page 1 of 1