What about Ndombele?? Not Hojberg either?
Letting that kid go to psv seems a huge mistake. May be he just wanted first team action as he did turn down other PL teams too but seems to have really kicked on at PSV.
Brave for a kid to move at that young an age to chase some minutes but clearly he has some pedigree. Exactly the type the club should keep.
Ships probably sailed for Dean Parrot, but Troy Parrot looks promising đź‘Ť
Look at Man City's team 5 years ago and it also probably looks stronger, but they're still playing at a similar level now. It's not down to just the individuals, but coaching and also the back ups in the squad.
Our strongest team on paper now is under-performing but our squad is stronger/deeper (on paper) than 5 years back.
what do you make of Skipp now, Sandy? still think he wont make it? despite being one of the championships best players this season
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
comment by Phenagelsmann (U20037)
posted 22 minutes ago
what do you make of Skipp now, Sandy? still think he wont make it? despite being one of the championships best players this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good solid and sensible player who seems to relish learning and getting better.
Good future ahead of him, and if we don't give him the chance, then many clubs would.
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 8 minutes ago
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The diff between Dembele and his predecessor Ndom, is that Dembele turned up in the big games, whereas Ndom hides
Massive diff!
comment by Phenagelsmann (U20037)
posted 25 minutes ago
what do you make of Skipp now, Sandy? still think he wont make it? despite being one of the championships best players this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficult to say Phenom, not really seen him this season, but apparently he is doing OK at Norwich. The question is will he be good enough to perform in the Prem on a regular basis. Lots of players look decent a division below.
comment by #Culer (U22564)
posted 1 hour ago
What about Ndombele?? Not Hojberg either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at the moment, both have done OK, but neither are on the Dembele or Eriksen levels right now.
Both teams quality on paper no about. But 16/17 was a level above, everyone was in perfect sync with each other, there was not one weakness anywhere in the first XI, not to mention we had a peak Eriksen & Dembele, and two of the best wing backs in the league at the time.
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 20 minutes ago
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That`s not strictly true, Lloris, Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Dembele had long been Internationals. Walker had as well before Poch arrived. Kane had already broken into the first team the season before, so it was just a natural progression, and would have happened under whoever was manager. He may have improved both Dele and Dier, but both had also seriously regressed under his management as well. Even Son was an International before he joined.
They just happened to be very good players that were all in the team at the same time, and if anything they should have won at least a couple of trophies under the previous manager.
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 7 minutes ago
Both teams quality on paper no about. But 16/17 was a level above, everyone was in perfect sync with each other, there was not one weakness anywhere in the first XI, not to mention we had a peak Eriksen & Dembele, and two of the best wing backs in the league at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly that, those sort of teams only come along once in a generation, and that they never won anything was a travesty. Spurs current team is nowhere near the level of that team in my opinion.
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 22 minutes ago
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem was Eddie, the performances were much the same from the same set of players during Poch`s last year. The odd decent performance, but also a lot of awful ones. I think the quality of players, and selling of some, and others get old, definitely comes into play now.
Rebuilds take a while. Spurs to my mind still have not replaced, Walker, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Four very, very big players for Spurs.
comment by sandy, bullies must never be allowed to win (U20567)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 22 minutes ago
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem was Eddie, the performances were much the same from the same set of players during Poch`s last year. The odd decent performance, but also a lot of awful ones. I think the quality of players, and selling of some, and others get old, definitely comes into play now.
Rebuilds take a while. Spurs to my mind still have not replaced, Walker, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Four very, very big players for Spurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, which sort of points the finger more towards Levy (and Poch if he really did turn his nose up at some of the players we were interested in, as was reported).
Despite the stadium build, I see no reason why we couldn't have gone for the following when/or before the players you mention departed, so we had the replacement in before we sold:
Walker - Wan Bissaka, Pereira (Leicester)
Vertonghen - Fofana, Ruben Dias
Dembele - Tielemans
Eriksen - Maddison/Grealish
For the money we spent on Lo Celso, N'dombele, Doherty, Bale etc, imagine if we had just been a little more pro-active a little earlier.
comment by sandy, bullies must never be allowed to win (U20567)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 22 minutes ago
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem was Eddie, the performances were much the same from the same set of players during Poch`s last year. The odd decent performance, but also a lot of awful ones. I think the quality of players, and selling of some, and others get old, definitely comes into play now.
Rebuilds take a while. Spurs to my mind still have not replaced, Walker, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Four very, very big players for Spurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was a Spursy thing to do at that time, we were challenging for the title, and yet we gave a rival our RB Walker? and to make it worse, we never really found a solid replacement for him since.
Losing Moussa Dembele coincided with our downturn in fortunes, which is no coincidence really, he was immense and made others around him look better.
Also, we have not replaced Eriksen, since he left we have struggled to dominate games, along with Dembele, Eriksen made us tick in the centre of the park and again it is no coincidence that since he left most of our ability to play football has turned to shiete.
Also, not many people seem to have picked up on this but since 2016, ignoring CLruns etc, we have finished in progressively worse league positions:
16/17 - 2nd
17/18 - 3rd
18/19 - 4th
19/20 - 6th
20/21 - who knows?
Can't be a coincidence. We look like letting Leicester City finish above us 2 seasons in a row, that's 76 games, not a small number to judge on.
The 16/17 XI is better while the 20/21 squad is better. A lot of players are underperforming due to the manager though. You’d take Reggie and Ndombele in the 16/17 side.
comment by sandy, bullies must never be allowed to win (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 20 minutes ago
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That`s not strictly true, Lloris, Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Dembele had long been Internationals. Walker had as well before Poch arrived. Kane had already broken into the first team the season before, so it was just a natural progression, and would have happened under whoever was manager. He may have improved both Dele and Dier, but both had also seriously regressed under his management as well. Even Son was an International before he joined.
They just happened to be very good players that were all in the team at the same time, and if anything they should have won at least a couple of trophies under the previous manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harsh on Poch to say that the likes of Kane just "naturally progressed" because that doesn't exist. You progress based on what you learn, what you are coached, how players solve problems etc. You aren't guaranteed to get better just because you're young and playing games.
Poch was a top coach, he improved the games of many and improved their output quality and developed a really strong side. It was still missing elements, but it was a very, very good side being coached by somebody who was very good at just that.
They were all good players, but they all became very good players in a very good team, under Poch. I know you aren't his biggest fan, which is fine, but it is harsh to say his coaching did not impact the development of that team.
Reguilon not as good as 2016/17 Rose yet, but he is only young, and is much better than Rose at the same age.
I disagree on Lloris too, I don't think he is worse than he was back then, it's just he had a better defence in front of him.
The 2016/17 team is better, but I think with a few replacements here and there it would be just as good, and let's not forget, the team now can still go on and win something.
I disagree on Lloris too, I don't think he is worse than he was back then, it's just he had a better defence in front of him.
==================
Lloris performances have dropped and tbh, he has one eye on PSG probably.
Whether 2015-16 season team or this team, they both have a common trait: they both don't turn up for the big games.
Look at the players in the last game. Kane had around 27 touches in the whole game. Bale around 22. Most of the others not so much better either (except PEH and Moura).
Big games, and our players just don't like it and don't have the stomach for it
Your team has got progressively worse since that season. Having a bit more depth doesn’t make up for the huge decrease in quality in the first team. Mourinho’s also finished whereas Pochettino wasn’t.
Big differences were / are:
1. We had the best defense around then. Including two CB's that were younger and in their prime. Plus never replaced Walker who is still one of the best RB's around, and the best back then.
2. City, whilst good and big spenders back then, their continued investment in the squad has meant they have moved a couple of levels above where they were back then.
3. There were the big 6 and then a big gap. Now we have 3/4 teams that have moved into this group, mainly due to a better spread of the TV money available now to every PL team. This also leads to more European money that these teams would not have had access to, as the same big 6 dominated the European places.
Fact is it all comes down to continued investment. Levy decided not to invest at the start of 2018 season, which if he had, would have then given us a realistic shout at ongoing titles until that team finally broke up, and we have been playing catch up ever since.
I feel you have the wrong manager in place if you're wanting to develop youth (or develop any players in fact).
Sign in if you want to comment
Comparing the Spurs team in 2016-17
Page 1 of 2
posted on 17/3/21
What about Ndombele?? Not Hojberg either?
posted on 17/3/21
Letting that kid go to psv seems a huge mistake. May be he just wanted first team action as he did turn down other PL teams too but seems to have really kicked on at PSV.
Brave for a kid to move at that young an age to chase some minutes but clearly he has some pedigree. Exactly the type the club should keep.
posted on 17/3/21
Ships probably sailed for Dean Parrot, but Troy Parrot looks promising đź‘Ť
Look at Man City's team 5 years ago and it also probably looks stronger, but they're still playing at a similar level now. It's not down to just the individuals, but coaching and also the back ups in the squad.
Our strongest team on paper now is under-performing but our squad is stronger/deeper (on paper) than 5 years back.
posted on 17/3/21
what do you make of Skipp now, Sandy? still think he wont make it? despite being one of the championships best players this season
posted on 17/3/21
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
posted on 17/3/21
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Phenagelsmann (U20037)
posted 22 minutes ago
what do you make of Skipp now, Sandy? still think he wont make it? despite being one of the championships best players this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good solid and sensible player who seems to relish learning and getting better.
Good future ahead of him, and if we don't give him the chance, then many clubs would.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 8 minutes ago
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The diff between Dembele and his predecessor Ndom, is that Dembele turned up in the big games, whereas Ndom hides
Massive diff!
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Phenagelsmann (U20037)
posted 25 minutes ago
what do you make of Skipp now, Sandy? still think he wont make it? despite being one of the championships best players this season
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Difficult to say Phenom, not really seen him this season, but apparently he is doing OK at Norwich. The question is will he be good enough to perform in the Prem on a regular basis. Lots of players look decent a division below.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by #Culer (U22564)
posted 1 hour ago
What about Ndombele?? Not Hojberg either?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not at the moment, both have done OK, but neither are on the Dembele or Eriksen levels right now.
posted on 17/3/21
Both teams quality on paper no about. But 16/17 was a level above, everyone was in perfect sync with each other, there was not one weakness anywhere in the first XI, not to mention we had a peak Eriksen & Dembele, and two of the best wing backs in the league at the time.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 20 minutes ago
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That`s not strictly true, Lloris, Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Dembele had long been Internationals. Walker had as well before Poch arrived. Kane had already broken into the first team the season before, so it was just a natural progression, and would have happened under whoever was manager. He may have improved both Dele and Dier, but both had also seriously regressed under his management as well. Even Son was an International before he joined.
They just happened to be very good players that were all in the team at the same time, and if anything they should have won at least a couple of trophies under the previous manager.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Bennyville (U8058)
posted 7 minutes ago
Both teams quality on paper no about. But 16/17 was a level above, everyone was in perfect sync with each other, there was not one weakness anywhere in the first XI, not to mention we had a peak Eriksen & Dembele, and two of the best wing backs in the league at the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly that, those sort of teams only come along once in a generation, and that they never won anything was a travesty. Spurs current team is nowhere near the level of that team in my opinion.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 22 minutes ago
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem was Eddie, the performances were much the same from the same set of players during Poch`s last year. The odd decent performance, but also a lot of awful ones. I think the quality of players, and selling of some, and others get old, definitely comes into play now.
Rebuilds take a while. Spurs to my mind still have not replaced, Walker, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Four very, very big players for Spurs.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by sandy, bullies must never be allowed to win (U20567)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 22 minutes ago
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem was Eddie, the performances were much the same from the same set of players during Poch`s last year. The odd decent performance, but also a lot of awful ones. I think the quality of players, and selling of some, and others get old, definitely comes into play now.
Rebuilds take a while. Spurs to my mind still have not replaced, Walker, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Four very, very big players for Spurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely, which sort of points the finger more towards Levy (and Poch if he really did turn his nose up at some of the players we were interested in, as was reported).
Despite the stadium build, I see no reason why we couldn't have gone for the following when/or before the players you mention departed, so we had the replacement in before we sold:
Walker - Wan Bissaka, Pereira (Leicester)
Vertonghen - Fofana, Ruben Dias
Dembele - Tielemans
Eriksen - Maddison/Grealish
For the money we spent on Lo Celso, N'dombele, Doherty, Bale etc, imagine if we had just been a little more pro-active a little earlier.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by sandy, bullies must never be allowed to win (U20567)
posted 18 minutes ago
comment by Edward Elizabeth Hitler. (U14393)
posted 22 minutes ago
If we could add another quality RB and CB to our team I'd say they we would be no worse off.
Imo it's not he players fault for the gutless performance but the style Jose has them playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem was Eddie, the performances were much the same from the same set of players during Poch`s last year. The odd decent performance, but also a lot of awful ones. I think the quality of players, and selling of some, and others get old, definitely comes into play now.
Rebuilds take a while. Spurs to my mind still have not replaced, Walker, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Four very, very big players for Spurs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That was a Spursy thing to do at that time, we were challenging for the title, and yet we gave a rival our RB Walker? and to make it worse, we never really found a solid replacement for him since.
posted on 17/3/21
Losing Moussa Dembele coincided with our downturn in fortunes, which is no coincidence really, he was immense and made others around him look better.
Also, we have not replaced Eriksen, since he left we have struggled to dominate games, along with Dembele, Eriksen made us tick in the centre of the park and again it is no coincidence that since he left most of our ability to play football has turned to shiete.
posted on 17/3/21
Also, not many people seem to have picked up on this but since 2016, ignoring CLruns etc, we have finished in progressively worse league positions:
16/17 - 2nd
17/18 - 3rd
18/19 - 4th
19/20 - 6th
20/21 - who knows?
Can't be a coincidence. We look like letting Leicester City finish above us 2 seasons in a row, that's 76 games, not a small number to judge on.
posted on 17/3/21
The 16/17 XI is better while the 20/21 squad is better. A lot of players are underperforming due to the manager though. You’d take Reggie and Ndombele in the 16/17 side.
posted on 17/3/21
comment by sandy, bullies must never be allowed to win (U20567)
posted 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 20 minutes ago
That team was class. But when poch inherited these players a couple of years before they were nothing special.
Danny Rose for example was awful. Walker inconsistent. Dembele not fulfilling potential. Kane, Dier and Dele just kids.
But Poch coached them into quality players. I miss having a manager capable of coaching and improving players
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That`s not strictly true, Lloris, Toby, Verts, Eriksen, Dembele had long been Internationals. Walker had as well before Poch arrived. Kane had already broken into the first team the season before, so it was just a natural progression, and would have happened under whoever was manager. He may have improved both Dele and Dier, but both had also seriously regressed under his management as well. Even Son was an International before he joined.
They just happened to be very good players that were all in the team at the same time, and if anything they should have won at least a couple of trophies under the previous manager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harsh on Poch to say that the likes of Kane just "naturally progressed" because that doesn't exist. You progress based on what you learn, what you are coached, how players solve problems etc. You aren't guaranteed to get better just because you're young and playing games.
Poch was a top coach, he improved the games of many and improved their output quality and developed a really strong side. It was still missing elements, but it was a very, very good side being coached by somebody who was very good at just that.
They were all good players, but they all became very good players in a very good team, under Poch. I know you aren't his biggest fan, which is fine, but it is harsh to say his coaching did not impact the development of that team.
posted on 17/3/21
Reguilon not as good as 2016/17 Rose yet, but he is only young, and is much better than Rose at the same age.
I disagree on Lloris too, I don't think he is worse than he was back then, it's just he had a better defence in front of him.
The 2016/17 team is better, but I think with a few replacements here and there it would be just as good, and let's not forget, the team now can still go on and win something.
posted on 17/3/21
I disagree on Lloris too, I don't think he is worse than he was back then, it's just he had a better defence in front of him.
==================
Lloris performances have dropped and tbh, he has one eye on PSG probably.
Whether 2015-16 season team or this team, they both have a common trait: they both don't turn up for the big games.
Look at the players in the last game. Kane had around 27 touches in the whole game. Bale around 22. Most of the others not so much better either (except PEH and Moura).
Big games, and our players just don't like it and don't have the stomach for it
posted on 17/3/21
Your team has got progressively worse since that season. Having a bit more depth doesn’t make up for the huge decrease in quality in the first team. Mourinho’s also finished whereas Pochettino wasn’t.
posted on 17/3/21
Big differences were / are:
1. We had the best defense around then. Including two CB's that were younger and in their prime. Plus never replaced Walker who is still one of the best RB's around, and the best back then.
2. City, whilst good and big spenders back then, their continued investment in the squad has meant they have moved a couple of levels above where they were back then.
3. There were the big 6 and then a big gap. Now we have 3/4 teams that have moved into this group, mainly due to a better spread of the TV money available now to every PL team. This also leads to more European money that these teams would not have had access to, as the same big 6 dominated the European places.
Fact is it all comes down to continued investment. Levy decided not to invest at the start of 2018 season, which if he had, would have then given us a realistic shout at ongoing titles until that team finally broke up, and we have been playing catch up ever since.
posted on 17/3/21
I feel you have the wrong manager in place if you're wanting to develop youth (or develop any players in fact).
Page 1 of 2